BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


J K Rowling voted best living British writer by The Book magazine.

 
  

Page: (1)234

 
 
Quantum
09:40 / 08.06.06
J.K.Rowling is the best living British writer? Ridikkulus! Accio Cyanide Capsule!

"She received nearly three times as many votes as the second-placed author in the list, the fantasy writer Terry Pratchett."
AAAAAARGH! *spews black bile from every orifice*

"The next three authors on the list are all Booker Prize winners - Ian McEwan, Salman Rushdie and Kazuo Ishiguro.
They were followed by the children's author Philip Pullman and the Nobel Prize-winning playwright Harold Pinter."
AAAAARGH! Pullman at 6! Pinter at 7! Harry Fucking Potter at 1!

"14. Iain Banks"
AAAAAARGH! Paging Dr Kevorkian! Emergency! KILL ME SOMEBODY!
 
 
Quantum
09:43 / 08.06.06
"Our survey provides a fascinating insight into what the British public thinks makes a 'great' writer," said Christine Kidney, editor of The Book Magazine.

YES! IT FUCKING DOES!
 
 
ghadis
11:52 / 08.06.06
Well at least Alasdair Gray sqeezed in at 19.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
04:17 / 09.06.06
I'm surprised Pinter was well known enough to get to number 6- isn't the theatre really marginalised?

Oh yeah, and comfortable fucking school-story bollocks at number 1 can fuck off.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:44 / 09.06.06
I don't know who else you expected to be number one, if not someone already established to be enormously popular across a wide range of the British public. It doesn't seem to me to be any more worthwhile to get worked up over this than it is every time The Beatles or whoever top a 'greatest albums ever' poll. In fact I find Pinter doing as well as he has somewhat baffling - I assume this is largely due to his recent political activism and the fact that he's been canonised, rather than any significant number of people really really actually ENJOYING his plays.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
09:06 / 09.06.06
Yep. Sorry. I guess there isn't much to be done about this one except whinge, so maybe a move to the convo might be an idea?
 
 
Cat Chant
09:08 / 09.06.06
Yeah, but, you know, is Dan Brown on there? Mostly people can distinguish between 'excellent read, jolly good stuff, I like this book' and 'best living writer'. Rowling is a terrible writer, by any standard anyone cares to name: she's using the school-story/chlit labels as an excuse to write books which are overlong, unoriginal to the point of actually being ripped off other writers* and (in Ursula LeGuin's unbetterable phrase) 'ethically mean-spirited'; her characterization is weak, her politics suck, and this kind of accolade is an insult to the many hundreds of talented, interesting, ethically generous and politically savvy children's writers working today.

*

Miss Hardbroom, thin, large-nosed, sarcastic Potions teacher and nemesis of bespectacled everywitch, (c) Jill Murphy 1974



Professor Snape, thin, large-nosed, sarcastic Potions teacher and nemesis of bespectacled everywizard, (c) Rowling 1997
 
 
Cat Chant
10:14 / 09.06.06
Damn you, Tripod! will have to go home and scan in picture.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:16 / 09.06.06
Dan Brown isn't British, Deva.

Mostly people can distinguish between 'excellent read, jolly good stuff, I like this book' and 'best living writer'

I would hope they can, since one is about a book, and one is about a writer. But beyond that, I wouldn't have thought so, and in my opinion those who did differentiate between "writes the most excellent books I like the most" and "best living writer" would be making a mistake.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
12:07 / 09.06.06
Deva, can you expand on your not liking Rowling?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:24 / 09.06.06
in my opinion those who did differentiate between "writes the most excellent books I like the most" and "best living writer" would be making a mistake.

I don't think that's always true. One can be an excellent writer but have rubbish ideas for stories or characters, and vice versa.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
12:25 / 09.06.06
I thought ze had expanded quite effectively...
 
 
Cat Chant
12:42 / 09.06.06
Legba: ad infinitum. I wrote an article about it for the now-defunct webzine here back in 2001, which covers many of my main dislikes: to the list there, you can add

* Rowling's prose style:

These furious thoughts whirled around in Harry's head, and his insides writhed with anger as a sultry, velvety night fell around him, the air full of the smell of warm dry grass, and the only sound that of the low grumble of traffic on the road beyond the park railings;

*heterocentrism and sex-negativeness (either stick to the 'children's adventure' sexlessness of your source material or do adolescence with some attempt at realism, or even just at the conventions of Young Adult writing of the last three or four decades);

*Muggle-bashing (no, it's not okay for the wizards to repeatedly erase the memories of everyone they come across);

*the ahistorical merging of the 1950s, the nineteenth century and the mediaeval period into a version of 'Englishness' which universalizes white middle-class cosiness while pretending to be 'right-on' about race and class.

Flyboy, please consider me to have said:

Mostly people can distinguish between 'excellent read, jolly good stuff, I like this book' and 'the person who created this entertaining thing is the best living writer in Britain'.

I think I know what you're getting at, ie that people should not vote for boring, uninvolving 'classics' out of a sense of duty, but rather that they should vote for books with which they have a living and passionate relationship: I couldn't agree more, but I think there's a big difference between having a living and passionate engagement with a book and watching it like the telly for entertainment, and conflating the two does as much of a disservice to readers and writers as trying to divorce enjoyment from 'quality'. I mean, in certain moods nothing will soothe me but Somerfield Diddi Donut Bites, and I enjoy them more than any other kind of cake and I hail them for that and would be very sad if they stopped being made. But I live round the corner from a bakery which makes fantastic fresh crispy light-doughed crystal-sugared real-jam-filled doughnuts, and frankly I'd consider it a slap in the face to them if I said that Somerfield were the best living doughnut-makers in Britain.

Similarly, I make A/B cross-stitch pieces, and I expect rabid A/B fans would probably like my cross-stitch better than, say, Tilleke Schwartz's. But her craft and her ability is light-years ahead of mine, and it would be insane to suggest otherwise. If you can make a convincing argument that Rowling's craft - however you want to define that term - is comparable to Pullman's, or Iain Banks', or Pinter's, then I'll reconsider.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:37 / 09.06.06
Wow, cheers for that Deva.

*click snik*

You've just given me some high quality ammunition...
 
 
This Sunday
19:42 / 09.06.06
Thanks, Deva, for laying that out in a far less meanspirited and rambly way than I would have.

Why do people who should clearly know better (Michael Moorcock, anyone?) digging out of the woodwork to champion the Potter books and their author? In the same world that provided us with 'Snow Crash' and 'As You Like It' and David Bowie -
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:48 / 10.06.06
I imagine Moorcock champions her because he disagrees, and likes her work. Scandalous!
 
 
All Acting Regiment
12:22 / 10.06.06
I think Moorcock's angle, throwaway, was that as a children's book, it was more fun than LotR. Can't really argue with that. Mind you, if someone's got a link to a different example of more cock rolling...er, Moorecock appreciating Rowling that'd be interesting to see what he says.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:05 / 10.06.06
I certainly don't think that Rowling is a particularly good writer and I started reading the type of books she writes about 18 years ago so I'm aware of the filching of characters she performs. However I think that people subscribe her to a morality that she isn't pretending too. All of the important scenes that she writes are about emotion, not anything else. They're about one character dealing with the pressure that has been consistently heaped upon him. That's what appeals to people, she doesn't underplay her only important character's responses at any point, it's about Harry being alone, Harry being upset, Harry being less trivial than he should be. Everyone is that important in their own head and that's why she wins awards like best living British writer. I think this having a living and passionate engagement is missing how people feel about Harry, whose head they are in and who they hurt with. I don't think people are watching Harry, I think they are worried about him and I think her one triumph isn't in her writing or her social perception, I think it's that she has managed to engage so many people with a person that she has created. That is something that she has written so fair game to the population if that is important to them.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
10:12 / 11.06.06
But why do all these people, many of whom are not teenage, white or male, engage with a white teenage boy in a fictional, children's book setting?
 
 
sdv (non-human)
17:39 / 11.06.06
Deva/all

I saw your use of this word over someones shoulder earlier, strictly speaking 'heterocentrism' cannot mean what Deva suggests - 'hetero' or 'heter' derives from the 'other'(greek) so heterocentrism would imply 'other-centrism' --- not i think a negative phrase at all... perhaps heterogenity and so on... It certainly cannot imply heterosexualcentrism at least without a ' somewhere in the word, which of course is only terrible in the social-political sense.

as for Rowling(nothing) but the phrase 'best living' is ridiculous as silly as 'best dead', merely a bad concept.
 
 
matthew.
18:14 / 11.06.06
But why do all these people, many of whom are not teenage, white or male, engage with a white teenage boy in a fictional, children's book setting?

Perhaps the absolute strength of Rowling to have non-white, non-teen, non-males engage with the male white teen is what makes her the "best living writer".

I read the first two Harry Potter books and decided to wait for the movies for the rest of the series. The books are just not to my tastes. However, somebody likes them. So there must be something good about Harry Potter.

I also think "best living writer" is a rather silly thing to award to somebody. Really what it means is "best writer still producing and publishing novels". J.D. Salinger is a great American writer but nobody ranks hir in best living writer, even though ze's alive and well.
 
 
Tom Coates
18:49 / 11.06.06
To be fair, the Harry Potter books don't get good until the third one, and then seem to just get longer rather than better. I'm having trouble with this kind of idea of a slight populist confection being obviously distinguishable from a proper craftful book - I keep thinking about hwo this works on television - Eastenders often beating back much more intelligent series for best TV show, and I wonder whether there's an element of appropriate-to-the-mediumness about this - ie. we don't fuss about Eastenders winning best TV show because TV shows aren't really 'supposed' to be high-brow, but books are 'supposed' to be high-brow, so we should be celebrating Rushdie. This is not to say we can't have distinct notions of quality, but that the shock appears to be that the books are getting the same treatment as schlocky media. Am I being unfair?
 
 
Jack Vincennes
21:02 / 11.06.06
Tom Coates: but books are 'supposed' to be high-brow, so we should be celebrating Rushdie.

Taking this as the starting point, something I've wanted to ask since this thread started -who would anyone else on this thread nominate as the best living British writer? I don't think it's an especially easy question -it's certainly not for me, because I'm a bit rubbish at reading new books -but I really don't know who I'd nominate for that. I mean, I quite like David Mitchell, or rather I thought Cloud Atlas was superb and Ghostwritten was okay, but I'm still not sure he's 'best living writer' material. So JK Rowling doesn't seem to be on the list of anyone here, but who is?
 
 
Cat Chant
09:52 / 12.06.06
strictly speaking 'heterocentrism' cannot mean what Deva suggests - 'hetero' or 'heter' derives from the 'other'(greek) so heterocentrism would imply 'other-centrism'

Yup, but oddly enough it does mean what I suggest nonetheless, since it's been repeatedly defined and used to mean 'heterosexual-centric'. (Cf 'homophobia', which doesn't actually mean 'fear of the same': both words are using the common abbreviations of homosexual and heterosexual into 'homo' and 'hetero'.) Funny how English words exceed their strict Greek etymology, innit?

Sorry for contributing to threadrot. Will get back to Anna's and Tom's points when I've finished some marking.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:57 / 12.06.06
heterogenity

That's "heterogeneity", which comes from the Greek "heteros" (other) and "genos" (race, stock, kin).

Annnnnyway, back to Rowling. I can see why one might get upset about this on behalf of one's own favourite writers - in terms of quality of writing, it is indeed hard to construct a compelling argument for Rowling as the best living British writer. On the other hand, she is by some distance the most successful living writer in Britain. This success is understandable in some ways and utterly baffling in others, but the sheer volume of books sold a) must count as some sort of _technical_ qualification and b) is likely to signify a large number of readers and thus a proportionately larger number of fans. Inevitably, in a poll, you're going to get _fans_ voting - realistically, what sort of a loon phones a poll to nominate their favourite author?

Pretty much by definition, any such poll boils down to "who is your favourite writer" (or possibly, "which writer do you think you ought to vote for", if you're feeling a bit more self-conscious), and as such the poll will be skewed towards popular, recent, well-publicised writing. Looking at the list, it is, as Matt observed, people who are still writing, largely, with an emphasis on people who released one or more books in the last few years. It's a pretty understandable middlebrow list from a new magazine looking to drum up some publicity, presumably - a fair few children's writers, a number of genre writers, towards the end a number of people who presumably polled very few votes, lots of white authors... pretty much what you'd expect, although I'd be interested to see the actual voting numbers.

In case anyone's interested, some of the people who voted for Rowling give reasons here. Accessibility seems to be a big one, and also that she encourages people to keep reading - as a sort of picturesque practice slope, perhaps.
 
 
Quantum
12:45 / 12.06.06
I blame the pollsters for their phrasing. When I read about it I experienced a rage-filled version of Haus' comment
in terms of quality of writing, it is indeed hard to construct a compelling argument for Rowling as the best living British writer

Of course she's the most popular writer, first ever writing billionaire and good luck to her. I enjoy Harry Potter and have since the first book came out. But just take any random passage, her writing is second rate. Then to see Pratchett in second place was just too much and I snapped, even restricting yourself to children's fantasy Pullman is aeons ahead of them both in terms of structure, characterisation, description, novelty, fantastic elements, themes and heart-wrenching moments. Ditto DWJ. Compare Chrestomanci to Rincewind or Hagrid to Iorek Byrnison, consider the Alethiometer and the Time Turner, etc. etc.
I would be hard pressed to name my best living British author but I'd base my guess on the quality of their work not on how much I liked them. Silly me. I think it's best if I just ignore spurious polls.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
18:39 / 12.06.06
Quantum: I'd base my guess on the quality of their work not on how much I liked them

I suppose I'm interested in what kind of objective measure you'd use to assess that, though; there must be some sort or correlation between the quality of a work and how much you enjoy it, but if you are discounting how much you enjoy something what standard would you use to work out what 'quality' was in this circumstance?

I suppose part of the problem is the fact that the writers nominated must be living -it's like you have to believe that a run of quality will continue, I think the question implies there is some sort of potential there as well as a hefty back catalogue of brilliance. So JKR, presumably, is there on the basis that she has provided entertainment and happiness in the past, and will do so in the future. To go back to my David Mitchell example (because I still haven't thought of anyone better, really) I would be somewhat loath to nominate him lest everything else he writes is like Ghostwritten which, more than once, came very close to being punted onto the Brighton / London railway line never to be seen or spoken of again.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:40 / 12.06.06
But why do all these people, many of whom are not teenage, white or male, engage with a white teenage boy in a fictional, children's book setting?

You never engage with a character who isn't from the same racial background or of the same gender and age as you?
 
 
This Sunday
21:33 / 12.06.06
I do find it silly and annoying that we're all meant to culturally default to a white male, though. It's the standard fictional avatar/operative, which is not nearly questioned enough. And Harry Potter's odd way of handling his traumatic upbringing, et cetera... and the social and racial politics of the books' world, are what keep me from enjoying a look through his eyes, more than specifically the color of his skin or the particulars between his legs.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:34 / 12.06.06
Well, girls buy and read books with male protagonists, but boys don't read books with female protagonists, or at least so the received publishing wisdom goes, so having a male protagonist is sound business sense for the aspiring writer of kidlit blockbusters...
 
 
This Sunday
01:33 / 13.06.06
More women read fiction than men, statistically, and everybody reads more fiction than whites, statistically, again, so... how irrational is it to expect the industry to start catering in that direction? Kids' books or otherwise.

I'm bitter, I know, but it does seem silly, especially where kids are concerned, since that's how we learned to default person/character to the white guy in the first place; entertainments of childhood. So you think it'd need adjusting at that juncture more than any.

Or, maybe I'm just overreacting.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:00 / 13.06.06
Well, girls buy and read books with male protagonists, but boys don't read books with female protagonists, or at least so the received publishing wisdom goes, so having a male protagonist is sound business sense for the aspiring writer of kidlit blockbusters...
 
 
Quantum
10:05 / 13.06.06
if you are discounting how much you enjoy something what standard would you use to work out what 'quality' was in this circumstance?

People read for lots of different reasons- I enjoy trash literature (Dan Brown's Angels&Demons for example) because it's kind of restful, low-challenge, sometimes you just need the words on your eyes. Conversely I don't enjoy Finnegan's Wake much but I recognise it's excellent writing. Sometimes you want a magazine, sometimes a Greek tragedy, it doesn't make the magazine better, I might not like Shakespeare and I might like Barbara Cartland, but I can surely recognise that William is a better writer than Barbara.
A personal example- I don't like Salman Rushdie's work, and I do like Harry Potter, but I am pretty certain Rushdie is the better writer.
How am I judging that? By examining the text, comparing my experience with other people who's opinion I respect, probably to a large extent by what's perceived to be 'literature' if I'm honest.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:43 / 13.06.06
It's like with poetry- I can get a great deal of enjoyment from William McGonagall, but he's fucking balls.
 
 
stml
11:24 / 25.06.06
I think a lot of this very literate bile - most of which I wholeheartedly agree with - spews from the a basic misreading of the question. The great unwashed have nominated JK as their favourite writer when what they meant was that she has written their favourite books. Immense, planet-sized difference. She's written one book (which I happily confess not to have read, so shall save my own bile for someone else) several times - as Tom so well puts it, getting longer every time (and if there's one thing the British reading public likes, it's length over style...).

But hey. Best living British writer? Has to be Iain Sinclair. Or perhaps Stewart Home. And yes, I can back that up.
 
  

Page: (1)234

 
  
Add Your Reply