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An atheist manifesto

 
  

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Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:34 / 03.07.06
I suspect that I'm misusing 'faith' by your definition then, in that I have faith in the sun hanging in the sky, the earth revolving around the sun and the revolution of the earth causing day and night. Science proves this.
 
 
some guy
10:28 / 03.07.06
Surely there's a difference between "knowing" and faith?
 
 
Lurid Archive
10:29 / 03.07.06
Do you also have faith that Rome is the capital of Italy? By which I mean, does saying you have faith in something have any content beyond the expression that you believe it to be true? Because if it doesn't, then while it is consistent, it isn't saying very much either.
 
 
Dragon
15:34 / 03.07.06
I guess I could have faith that there is no deity after rejecting all theological arguments as being unsupportable. In a sense, I "know" I am right. The problem is a theist may "know" he is right, too.

I accept with confidence that there has been evolution, that there is gravity, and so forth, because I accept the arguments as being solidly supportive.

On the other hand, some theists may reject that there is evolution, rationalizing that couldn't be true because he sees conflict between what he "knows" to be true and what science has shown. That kind of rationalization, "the process whereby one conveniently justifies a position in a way that obscures one's actual motivations" as Lurid added earlier, is what I think may apply to some theists. The "obscures" part is also obscured from the theist, himself.

The same theist could suggest to me that I'm conveniently justifying my position in a way that obscures my own motivations which puts the argument back in square one...
 
 
werwolf
14:39 / 04.07.06
[ % niccccceeeeee! this ties in with things that i like to repeat... and also makes me get back to sam harris' essay, which IS the main point of this thread, isn't it? % ]

actually, i personally DO think that everything that humans "know" or "believe to know" or "think they know" (and so on and so forth) is actually just faith in something.

scientist's taking their job seriously will never talk about their findings in terms of "truth" or "absolute". they are painfully aware that each model is only an approximation of how things might work and valid only until proven faulty. history will show how many such models have come and gone only to be replaced by other "truths". we think ouselves safe because science has "proven" something, while all that science can prove is that their theories are working extremely well to describe what's going on around us. we accept this because there have to be boundaries and rules to which we can cling. i am quite comfortable with this, being sure of the inability of mankind (in our current phase of evolution/progress/whatchamacallit) to grasp the truth or Truth or "truth" or "Truth".

i can accept this because scientists have chosen inductive ways of creating theories and rules - watch and learn, so to say. it gets more difficult with the dogmatic approach of religion.

theists of all creed are dogmatic in their view of the world - "there IS/ARE (a) divine entit(y)/ies." and from this point on they go about deducing everything that goes on in the world around them. which in turn leads to quite confusing, but inherently coherent views of the world and life. coherent, because they are true to the basic dogma of the existence divine. and the atheists does the same, going off with the opposing dogma of the non-existence of the divine. only, the atheist, in order to distinguish him/herself from the theists, incorporates inductive world-views, ideas and theories that seem "rational" to the atheist, to build on top of the atheist dogma.

so, when sam harris goes about gun-toting his atheistic big caliber arguments, i am strangely reminded of sunday preachers under damp tent roofs on tv.

the atheist view is, imho, profoundly correct and acceptable. but only as far as you can agree with any dogmatic worldview. any resemblance to life and the realities thereof or purely coincidental. if there is to be dogma in my world i'd like to creat it myself and not have it dictated by a pope, a congregation, a holy book or sam harris, thank you very much. (what was that about the diamond in my backyard?)

i know, i know, i am repeating myself over and over again. and i know that you know all of what i've written down here, but i just felt i need to have my sentiments on this matter written down. once again.
 
 
Dragon
12:28 / 05.07.06
I suspect Peeks last comments in Questioning the validity of indoctrinated beliefs are on the money especially since they coincide with mine...
 
  

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