BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Conversation >

Hetero 101

  
  

Page: (1)234

 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:32 / 08.05.06
Here we are then. It might seem odd for people to have question about Hetero as it's plastered all over the world on adverts and so-on, but doubtless the official truth is not the whole one and questions swarm the decks like curious bees.

I'm happy to answer questions but, bear in mind, as other people have said, sexual cultures are different beasts according to different people.
 
 
Spaniel
14:39 / 08.05.06
Beat me to it.

Something I think should be mentioned at this early stage is that het ground is often a very unexamined space in that hets are not often asked to examine their sexual identity, in light of which I hope people will be patient with us as we struggle to answer some of the undoubtedly challenging questions that lie ahead.
 
 
Hattie's Kitchen
14:48 / 08.05.06
Do straight women really enjoy giving blow jobs? Or is it seen as a chore that must be done?
 
 
*
14:48 / 08.05.06
Do you think there's a difference between "heterosexual" and "straight"?
 
 
Spaniel
14:50 / 08.05.06
There are indeed straight women that enjoy giving blowjobs.
 
 
*
14:52 / 08.05.06
I found giving head very unpleasant until I started identifying as a gay man. don't know if that says anything about anything, though.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
15:01 / 08.05.06
HK: well, I can't speak for all straight women, but I would guess that some do, and some don't (and I don't see why this is necessarily likely to be different for straight women than for any other category of person likely to give a blowjob).

Things that can make the experience unpleasant (for me personally): not having enough control. One ends up gagging. Control is key (and, for this straight woman, a pleasure - straight women are so often perceived by the media/culture as passive recipients, you know?).
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:01 / 08.05.06
The het/straight one I'm also very interested in. Are they usuable interchangeably? Are people on and not the other?

Another one, and bear with me, as I'm not sure how to express this/hope it's not too annoying.

Have any of the people here who are/identify as 'het' and/or 'straight' ever identified as something else or been unsure of that identity/identification?

Do people consider that they identify as het and/or straight or are het/straight?

Are there forms of het sexual encounter/sexual identity that are more socially acceptable than others?
 
 
Spaniel
15:07 / 08.05.06
Is there a difference? Not sure. I know I don't like the connotations of the word straight in that it suggests a rather vanilla approach to sexuality, and is therefore potentially confining and as such could be used derogatively. I've certainly encountered non-hets who have used the term specifically to other me.

I probably need to think more on this.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:07 / 08.05.06
Boboss, this is genuinely not snarky, and is trading on IRL info, but as I know that you're a man, how do you know that there are women who enjoy blowjobs?
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:09 / 08.05.06
ie, is there a problematic point to het men answering questions specificlly about acts performend by het women?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:09 / 08.05.06
Do you think there's a difference between "heterosexual" and "straight"?

I dunno really. Straight's a funny old word. I mean, I identify as het but I've had (other het) people tell me I was straight in a really hurtful and undermining way, using the word to mean that I'm not a 'real' perv. If a gay, bi or queer person used the word, I don't know if it would necessarily have the same sting.

Of course the whole thing of my contributing to this thread is a bit complicated because my primary sexual identity isn't heterosexual, it's pervert. If forced to choose between perv sex with a female partener and regular vanilla with a male partener, I'd choose the former over the latter every time.

(And I think bjs are great fun. But like I said, perv.)
 
 
Lurid Archive
15:11 / 08.05.06
OK, I'll say something about Deva's question in the other thread (which should really have been this thread),

So what's it like negotiating a relationship to normativity from within? What's it like being overdetermined rather than underrepresented?

Well, I can only really speak for myself, but I find that the overdetermination is occasionally irritating what with various people deciding to pronounce on what heterosexuality is, in ways that I usually find have little relation to me. But it is also ok, from time to time, since these assumptions mean I don't have to explain myself, my views or my sex life if I don't want to, though it can also close down the *possibility* of explanation. I have been told, on more than one occasion who I find attractive, for instance, or my role in the power dynamics of sex...I've had conversations where my protests were dismissed, which is kinda interesting. Since my identity isn't really tied into heterosexuality in a deep way, my response is often - not always - to let assumptions slide.
 
 
Spaniel
15:15 / 08.05.06
Sorry, my last post was a facetious response to what I considered to be a facetious question, which was probably slightly naughty as this is a low snark thread.

How do I know? Well obviously I don't, I just think it's rather unlikely all the women who do it don't like doing it. I was pointing to a problem with generalisations - that all women might hate giving head - rather than reading the mind of womankind.

Also there's the fact that I have known women who have told me they enjoy giving head, and I think I can be forgiven for assuming that some of them are actually telling the truth.
 
 
Lurid Archive
15:18 / 08.05.06
Boboss, this is genuinely not snarky, and is trading on IRL info, but as I know that you're a man, how do you know that there are women who enjoy blowjobs?

One asks them.

ie, is there a problematic point to het men answering questions specificlly about acts performend by het women?

*shrug*. Maybe. Though if we are calling into question what a person learns from their partner(s), that might make things tricky.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
15:21 / 08.05.06
Are their forms of het sexual encounter/sexual identity that are more socially acceptable than others?

Monogomy. Why is monogamy always viewed as the best idea eva!!!1!1!!! Little story - I dated a girl in my first year at University who was also dating two other guys (one I was actually quite good friends with, the other guy was a proper dick, another story). Man she was cool, very confident but not smarmy if you catch my drift. I never had a problem with it, I liked her and found the idea of her having other boyfriends quite interesting, but some of my friends, Jesus, you'd have thought I was dating a goat. It all ended badly, as it always does, and I genuinly feel it was because all the guys she was dating friends didn't like it - she got a lot of shit from my friends, my friends friends friends, even the dicks friends, so she just stopped seeing us all. And my friends looked at me like I should've been happy about it. As you can see, I'm still not happy about it.

So yeah, large non-monogomous relationships get frowned on in a big way in my social circles, maybe not every where but around me they do. I guess I understand why, and that was the only non-monogomous girlfriend I ever had, and I probably wouldn't do it again.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:22 / 08.05.06
Boboss/Lurid: thanks for answers, I was trying to see if there was something interesting to be got out of what I assumed was a silly exchange, and your consideration is appreciated.
 
 
alas
15:22 / 08.05.06
I admit that when I read your question, HK, I felt it has a sexist edge to it. I will assume that you do not mean to be sexist. (I, too, really had to fight against a snarky response).

I suggest you try doing a little focused reading with this question in mind, which should help reveal to you that sexuality varies widely both within and across gender--you can gather that from many threads here on Barbelith. Some men are turned on by leather, some not--gay or straight. Some women too. Some people are really into feet, some aren't. Some people like to play with jello, others find it sticky and uncomfortable. Women, as people, are likewise variable in their sexual interests and desires. Some women enjoy both giving and receiving oral sex--some enjoy engaging with both men and women, some only enjoy these activities excluseively with one or the other. Some women do not enjoy either of these activities, or only enjoy them under very specific circumstances.

There has traditionally been a view of women, in general, as sexless (which has in our culture made lesbianism virtually unthinkable) and there's a long history of seeing women as needing to "serve" their male-partners sexual needs, in exchange for financial support, physical protection, or increased social status (as wives or favored lovers). This history of asymmetrical power has complicated the process by which many women, straight or otherwise, come to sexual awareness and an understanding of their own pleasures.

Some feminists say that when such stark power relationships are in place--particularly when women's entire livelihood is dependent on her partner's willingness to support her--full, unambiguous consent is not possible. This could imply that all pleasure that the woman may be feeling, is, itself, compromised, not fully to be trusted, is a kind of "false consciousness." Many other feminists dispute this idea, particularly in more egalitarian partnerships made possible by feminist efforts, the revisions to marriage law and property rights that have occured over the 20th century, and the increased ability of women to work outside the home, but most would still agree that political structures do matter in the bedroom and shape what occurs there. The personal is entangled with the political; pleasure is often deeply entangled with power relations.

There is pleasure to be gained simply from getting the attention of powerful people, and women who identify as straight (and/or those who choose straight relationships)* have to negotiate that, given the legacy of patriarchal social and economic structures.

* Some women in straight relationships are not straight; some people identify as straight but it feels a bit straitjackety ....etc.
 
 
P. Horus Rhacoid
15:25 / 08.05.06
(Really quickly because I'm super-busy but don't want the question to get lost in the shuffle/this may belong in the Bi 101 thread)

Have any of the people here who are/identify as 'het' and/or 'straight' ever identified as something else or been unsure of that identity/identification?

Do people consider that they identify as het and/or straight or are het/straight?

Yep to the first question. At the moment I consider myself a straight-identifying bisexual– for the past 6 months or so I've been internally negotiating/exploring the non-hetero aspect of my sexuality but I'm not sure to what extent I can/am comfortable with calling myself bisexual. However at the moment I still ID as straight/present myself as straight/perform straightness. This could be a temporary confusion or it could lead to wholesale change in my identity, I don't really know yet.

(This probably speaks to some difference between straight and hetero, at least as I'm presenting it.)

I'll try to come back later, tons of stuff to do right now.
 
 
Not in the Face
15:25 / 08.05.06
The het/straight one I'm also very interested.

I would definetly class myself as het but not as straight (now I come to think about, not something one is asked to do as Boboss pointed out). To me the former is a statement about my sexuality, pure and simple, but the latter carries with it a range of behavioural associations that for the sake of over-simplification I would identify as mainstream, if only because it sets up a false (oppressive?) tension against what it (straightness) isn't, as reflected in terms such as 'bent', deviant and queer with the implication that straight is right and everything else wrong.

Have any of the people here who are/identify as 'het' and/or 'straight' ever identified as something else or been unsure of that identity/identification?

No, but I have genuinely been thought of as gay, simply on the basis of not engaging in 'straight' behaviour, such as trying to chat up attractive women, although those comments came from the women themselves - co-workers when I used to work in a pub. I've also found that this behaviour in combination with being single for a period of time leads to suspicion of being gay.

Are their forms of het sexual encounter/sexual identity that are more socially acceptable than others?

I can't think of any. I think the issue is more one of socially acceptable to whom? As lot of popularised sexual activity is done for the interests of men and so male and female expectations of sexual encounters and identity may be different. Examples that occur are anal sex and girl-girl action, both of which are highlighted as ok as long as only one man is around.
 
 
alas
15:26 / 08.05.06
(which has in our culture made lesbianism virtually unthinkable)
at times, to some people, I meant to say...Sorry.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:32 / 08.05.06
Indeed.

Although I'm really not prepared to comment on my own preferences regarding blow-jobs/oral sex here, I agree that assuming, (if you're not joking HK) that all straight women don't like blowjobs and give them unwillingly as 'expected', has some unpleasant implications to it.

I do know plenty of primarily bi-identified women/female-id'd people * who gain enormous pleasure for themslves from giving a blowjob to man/male-identified person. Do bi women count differently here, I wonder...




*This being probably because my bi-identitified female friends circles tend to discuss specific sex acts/enjoyment thereof to a much greater degree than my het id'd ones. This may be very specific to me.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:33 / 08.05.06
sorry, 'indeed' was meant in response to alas' first post.
 
 
Cat Chant
15:34 / 08.05.06
There's a popular perception of heterosexuality as based on a fundamental difference which is often played out (in popular culture) in a way that's very close to antagonism. The 'benign' version of this is the Mars/Venus stereotype, or perhaps Deborah Tannen's research on the different communication styles of men and women, where both parties in a het relationship must do a lot of work on translating their own and their partner's opposite-sex-ese. The more icky/damaging version has a lot of stuff about how women are deceivers who are just trying to get a husband, while men are deceivers who are 'only after one thing', so that women will exchange the sex that men want for the commitment that they want (and men vice versa).

What ways of thinking about gender difference are helpful and/or erotic for you in your opposite-sex relationships? How does gender difference inform the way you feel about your relationships and/or sexual practices? Do you think of members of the opposite sex (MOTOS) as being from another planet from you, in a Mars/Venus sort of way? Do you feel there is an element of antagonism/competition/deceit/'gameplaying' in heterosexual dating (if you date)? Or do you feel that there is always a level of 'translation' in communication between men and women? How do you deal with that - is it pleasurable or anxiety-provoking, or both?
 
 
Spaniel
15:41 / 08.05.06
As for whether I've ever i'd differently, no I don't think so, which is interesting because I've certainly had gay fantasies (particularly as a teen). I suppose I've just always been very comfortable with i'ding as het and uncomfortable with seeing if there was anything to this bi or gay lark. I've also never fancied another man (read: had a sexual attraction to) so I've been rather lacking in motivation.

That said, there are politcial reasons for i'ding as bi that I can relate to, sadly I find it hard to summon up the energy and commitment, partly because I'm very happy in my bubble and partly because the move would feel somewhat inauthentic in that whilst I'm open to the possibility that I could fancy another man, I think it's pretty unlikely.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:43 / 08.05.06
ooh, thanks Deva, I'd just been writing something similar, but not as well-put-together, so count that one as having been asked twice.
 
 
sibyline, beating Qalyn to a Q
15:51 / 08.05.06
Yeah, I think the oral sex thing is a fraught issue, because it's laden not just with physical but also political implications.

I enjoy both giving and receiving pleasure as long as I trust the person and don't feel degraded as a result. This doesn't mean that sex has to be all pc and boring, but that I know the person enough that I feel comfortable knowing that whatever I do with him in bed doesn't have untoward implications outside of bed. Let's just leave it at that.
 
 
Spaniel
16:24 / 08.05.06
Sib, PC probably isn't a term you should be using on Barbelith, it tends to bring out the snark.
 
 
illmatic
16:28 / 08.05.06
Have any of the people here who are/identify as 'het' and/or 'straight' ever identified as something else or been unsure of that identity/identification?

No, not at all. The only fantasies I have had have been magical thought experiments, rather than those arising spontaneously. And this is after straying from the path of hetreosex (only once mind). This experience of being intimate to someone in this way made me feel I could learn to find a man's body sexual attractive - even though I just didn't at the time. Some bit of the circuitry just didn't switch on.

I felt like I could have learnt to find it so - if, I don't know, some set of circumstances made me find chiselled abs incredibly compelling or something, and I built it up in my head with mucho fantasy, I can imagine how it'd be a big turn on to finally get my hands on. As it is though, that set of circumstances hasn't arisen.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:29 / 08.05.06
Sib, PC probably isn't a term you should be using on Barbelith, it tends to bring out the snark.

Or, you know, the "perfectly reasonable attempts to question and critique unexamined concepts which are seeking to take control of and undermine critical discourse".

God, I hate it when people make me agree with Flyboy. New thread.
 
 
Spaniel
16:34 / 08.05.06
Much better way of putting it, Haus. You'll have to take my word for it but I almost qualified my statement above with the words "for good reasons that have been much discussed elsewhere", oh, and I thought about putting in more than one link, but for some reason (almost certainly laziness) I didn't.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
16:38 / 08.05.06
I don't like the term straight myself simply because it implies "correct" in my mind. I have used the term, but usually as a result of a "are you gay or straight" question.

Also, as stated previously, straight suggests "normal" which leads to vanilla and boring. I am sure this is how I was for a while, and described myself as vanilla for a while. Over time I grew more comfortable with my body and my sexuality, and although I have never had a desire to have a sexual relationship with a man, the term straight doesn't feel right anymore.

A lot of folks I know talk about "sexual experimentation" but they are usually talking about same sex relations. I don't see why you cannot play around with your sexuality in a het relationship. Thats my .02 cents at least.
 
 
Dead Megatron
16:56 / 08.05.06
I just got to see this thread, so let me sum up the previous questions through my eyes in a brief way

1- the het/straight difference. Down here in Brazil we do not use the term "straight", so, no, I see no difference between them. Althoug, "straight" could be construed as somewhat derogatory (as in: straight sex = boring sex)*

2- why do some women do not like giving oral sex? I don't know, and it always struck me as a bit offensive. I mean, do they think my genitalia is dirt or disgusting somehow? In fact, all women I've met who do not enjoy giving oral sex are, at least to some point, sexually repressed. They seem to not enjoy sex that much, as if it were something they "allow" their male partners to do to them in exchange for something else (love? marriage? money? it varies). Also, I've encountered women who do not like receiving oral sex, which pisses me off a lot, since it's the thing I, particulary, most enjoy doing and believe to be my best asset, sex-wise. It pisses me off to the point of getting up, dressing up, and leaving. True story...

3- do het guys may have a problem in answering question about het women? As sad as it may be, I have to say "Hell, yeah!". There a huge communication gap between het men and het women, which is also, I should add, a great source of distress for both "sides".

4- do het people ever thought of identifying with anything other than het? Following Mordant's qeue, I'd have to say that me too would better identify myself as a "perv" than a "het".

5- are there any form of het sex/practice that are more acceptable than others? I'll follow matt on this one and say that non-monogamous relations really are frowned upon. Which I think it sucks.


* on a side note, non-het people in here have a term they used to use to describe themselve, like a secret code: "enlightened people" or "well-versed people" (trnaslation is difficult). As if they were part of a secret society that has discovered a "superior" mode of sex. The term, however, is falling out of use, now that non-het orientations as being more and more accepted in the mainstream.
 
 
illmatic
17:04 / 08.05.06
all women I've met who do not enjoy giving oral sex are, at least to some point, sexually repressed

I think that's quite an unpleasant generalisation to be making Megatron. I've met plenty of women who haven't liked it, and I wouldn't dream of talking about them in that fashion.
 
 
illmatic
17:10 / 08.05.06
Actually, once more in more angry terms - every woman that you've slept with who choses not to give you a blowjob is sexually repressed? What the fuck? Can you not see how that is a really stupid fucking to say? Can't you just try thinking before you post?
 
  

Page: (1)234

 
  
Add Your Reply