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Trans 101 2006

 
  

Page: 1234(5)

 
 
Disco is My Class War
13:53 / 04.10.06
I'd love if this discussion could stay relevant to transness. My feeling is that differently gendered bodies are the object of curiosity and fascination for quite particular reasons, and that it's not that constructive in understanding that curiosity to go figuring out the whole politics of curiosity/objectification/difference -- although it's important, and interesting.

toksik, I would say that it totally depends on the person on what questions are appropriate and when. It depends on how friendly one is, how long you've known someone, and how much you yourself are willing to open up about similarly personal issues. That's my feeling. I don't feel comfortable with strangers asking me about my genitals, but I live in Australia, and we seemed to have picked up some English reserve about these things. I don't get asked that often.

On the other hand, I had a queer friend once who used to grill me on everything related to transness. She wanted to watch me bind, wanted to know exactly what surgeries I wanted, everything. We were just getting to know one another, and I knew her intent was mere curiosity and lack of boundaries. Nonetheless, I had to tell her it was inappropriate. (I had to tell her it was inappropriate to also grill my other trans friends, to whom she was behaving in a similar way.) It was weird, because on one hand she was the first person to actively ask me what pronoun I preferred -- which I appreciated. However, she really wanted to refer to me as male, publicly, and told me I should be doing so. I hadn't quite come to that level of openness about stuff; hadn't even told many people in my social circle at that point. I felt pushed, and I wound up ending the friendship.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
13:56 / 04.10.06
I am also glad that haus made the point about the 'we', by the way, and glad that toksik summed it up so neatly.
 
 
*
15:13 / 04.10.06
I currently have a housemate (who has informed me that social situations can often be a total mystery to her in a way that they don't seem to be for others; I've taken this into account in my expectations of her) whose curiosity about others is relatively unrestrained. She does not seem to have much of an awareness of other people's boundaries in many of her interactions (she has decided that another housemate is her little brother and treats him as such, despite his lack of consent to this game). When she asks me intrusive questions, I answer them far more often than I would those of someone who evidently felt particularly entitled to ask me questions because I was trans and they were cisgender. But I also feel comfortable saying "I don't want to tell you," because her response to that has invariably been respectful. Basically, if someone does ask me intrusive questions, it's not the end of my good feelings towards them so long as they're not acting as if they have the moral right to ask me intrusive questions.
 
 
*
15:14 / 04.10.06
I may not be reading the point about "we" very clearly, but I hope it doesn't stem from a possibly mistaken assumption about whether Kay identifies as trans or not.
 
 
Char Aina
15:15 / 04.10.06
no.
it stems from the assumption ze made about race.
am i missing something?
perhaps you could PM me if i am, so as not to rot this thread any further?
 
 
Twice
18:03 / 04.10.06
How do individual FTM transpeople negotiate the shift in privilidge and burdens between genders. To what extent do FTM transfolk inherit privilidge during their transition?

Forgive me for sticking my oar in. This is clearly addressed to FTMs, but I wanted to say a bit about the opposite direction.

I was rather surprised, personally, to find that the shift was, at first, almost unnoticeable. During transition there was so much going on that it probably whizzed over my head. Also, it’s quite probable that (having transitioned publicly), my change of status was not acknowledged by those around me who might have imposed burdens on me: that somehow, perversely, a lack of acknowledgement of my female status meant that, for a while, I retained male privilege. This might also mean that I, having become accustomed to it, continue(d) to (ab)use it.

There then followed something of a purple patch when ‘all was well with the world’. My new status felt like a cozy blanket, and I felt I was gaining a different type of privilege which, retrospectively, meant that I was empowered by my progress to react, feel and behave appropriately. For many MTFs (include me) the first experiences of patriarchal society (term used advisedly: I may be overstating this) are actually validating. A guiding hand in the small of the back; a door held open (much confusion at first); an unwillingness to play me at pool: these things were initially welcome. Latterly, they’ve become a pain in the arse.

It was only slowly that I began to be aware of the difference between knowing about the differences and actually experiencing them. The discovery of a lack of male privilege has been a dripdrip, the overall effects of which are, as Mister Disco said, very hard to pin down. As a transperson, I feel a need to make a balance between gaining public acknowledgement of my gender, by obeisance to expected behaviour, and existing as I might feel comfortable. Hardly a transexclusive quandary, though. It’s hard to acquire even a veneer of understanding, as a middle class brought-up male, of how male privilege affects born females.
 
 
*
15:21 / 06.10.06
Class, I'd like to reveal something many trans people seem to be ignorant of.

Some trans people choose not to reveal that they are trans. This might be for any number of reasons. It's their choice. Anyone who reveals that someone else is trans without that person's permission is a right shithead.

This means if you know the woman does not tell people that she was assigned male, you do not go up to her at pride and bellow "Lydia! Why aren't you marching with the trannies this year!" The person she is standing next to may be her gossipy coworker.
 
 
Triplets
18:25 / 06.10.06
This means if you know the woman does not tell people that she was assigned male

I have no idea what this means.
 
 
Pingle!Pop
19:51 / 06.10.06
Triplets, in this case, read "... at birth" - so, basically, what the doctor says when someone pops out. This is usually a fairly straightforward, "This child has these genitalia therefore they are x," though in a few cases it's not so clear cut.
 
 
Triplets
20:45 / 07.10.06
Ah, cool. It was my understanding and possibly a bit of the wording that threw me. Although the latter could well be down to the fact that this kind of language and topic never comes up in my day-to-day. Anyway, cheers!
 
 
Ticker
15:38 / 20.02.07
I'm having a hard time right now with people in the body mod community being judgmental about the 'natural'/ 'unnatural' ness and spiritual implications of trans surgery.

I'm trying to be ok that they're tolerant of other people while not accepting but the dialogue is making me crazy. I think I'm stumbling on what seems to me to be a highly artifical line of bullshit about making due with what you were given at birth. This makes me want to scream about the intersex surgeries and personal choice. But hey wtf do I know.

*goes and kicks stuff*
 
 
Ex
15:50 / 20.02.07
I share your aargh - I didn't buy a particularly lavish book on body mods because one of the participant interviews said (roughly) 'I've got holes in me big enough to pass a toaster through and I plaited my intestines, but transexuals? You should totally STICK WITH WHAT YOU'RE BORN WITH.' It was a rather unexpected slap.

I try to remember that many people make a decision to live as (for instance) masculine women, or feminine men, without transitioning, even though they feel transitioning would be a possibility, because they feel it should be possible to stretch the definition of the gender. And I imagine it's damn difficult for them. But then if that decision is motivated by transphobia, and sustained by trashing anyone who takes an alternative route and imagining they're all binary-minded sheeple, then - well, arses to them. Pyrographed knees or no.
 
 
Dead Megatron
16:57 / 20.02.07
And just to make a little comment on that, how many peopledo actually make due with what they are given at birth. I mean, plastic surgery, any kind ofbody modification, -like piercings or tattos-, even going to the gym or dying your hairmay classify as violation of such "cardinal rule". I know I would change a whole lotta stuff in me, given the opportunity. Why is gender different?(granted it is one major change)Why is this one thing so untouchable, specially in this day and age?

Also I tend to think of spirits as genderless, so being trans is not an issue at all.

And also, appologies for this neophyte's stream of obvious remarks...
 
 
Ticker
17:49 / 20.02.07
well this maybe a bit off topic but I think it is relevant that there is a value system regarding body modification. some froms of mod and reasons for are more acceptable than others. It's just still a bit wonky to me that people who intentionally alter their bodies decoratively would be unaccepting of other people altering their bodies for comfort. I think this might be another topic entirely.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
19:44 / 09.03.07
So my transwoman friend is finally getting her op next Thursday (or, at least, she goes into hospital on that date)

What's the deal with visiting people in hospital, and what's an appropriate "congratulations" present?
 
 
Twice
19:58 / 09.03.07
Do:
Kiss her. She's likely to be feeling ugly.
Bring lots of news from the outside world.
Bring vodka

Don't:
Buy a Happy Birthday card
 
 
*
00:19 / 10.03.07
Maybe or maybe not vodka... there's likely to be bleeding for a while after surgery and alcohol is a blood-thinner. Also, interactions with pain medications could be bad.

Obviously, don't say "Finally you're really a woman!" implying that what she was before was fake. (Just, you know, for the folks watching from home.)

Don't be too shocked if she's feeling a little let-down afterwards—it's common for people to feel a little bit of depression after major surgery like this, even—especially—if they've been wanting it for ages. Support her if she's feeling that way; it doesn't necessarily mean there's a serious problem. Conversely, she might be ecstatic; who knows. It's different for everyone.

It depends on her personality and your relationship with her what you should get her. My first thought is a soft and comforting Wonder Woman nightie.
 
 
Twice
09:46 / 10.03.07
Yeah, maybe the vodka depends on a number of circumstances, but a little naughtiness in hospital goes a long way. I'm not entirely sure about the nightie, though. Budget permitting, I think a very small but quality piece of jewellery would be lovely. Flowers are often a problem in hospitals. I know there's a large hospital in London which kidnaps bunches of flowers for health and safety reasons.
 
 
Ticker
14:43 / 10.03.07
In general it's also quite wonderful to wait and send the flowers to people's homes once they are out of hospital. The healing and feeling a bit low due to surgery does continue and it is a very nice gesture.
 
  

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