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Giving your seat up on the tube.

 
  

Page: 12(3)4567

 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:38 / 04.05.06
I think the real lesson here is; don't read the Wall Street Journal on public transport. If it'd been Hustler, then this incident might have made more sense -

TEN YEAR OLD KID: 'Hey mister, stand up!'

DEMONISED YUPPIE: 'Well no, I, er, can't... This is quite a tight suit... Please leave me alone.'

TEN YEAR OLD KID (loudly, brattishly): 'No, no I won't, I'm gonna kick you in the nuts!'

DEMONISED YUPPIE: 'Right... Oh god... Son, d'you honestly think this carriage wants to deal with that? It's only early, after all.'

TEN YEAR OLD KID: 'Yeah, motherfucker'

(Terrible pause.)

TEN YEAR OLD KID: 'Fuck, motherfucker's making crazy traces inside his Hugo Boss pants.

DEMONISED YUPPIE (pondering the ramifications of all this): 'Well Hustler can be, I don't know, a ... diverting magazine ... Perhaps we could talk about this at a later date.

TEN YEAR OLD KID: Fuck no! What you be sayin...

DEMONISED YUPPIE: Mm. Well you seem like a spirited lad, what say you about you and I hitting some of the toy shops uptown, if you'll only be quiet about my ... enraged tumnescence.'

TEN YEAR OLD KID: I don't understand the big ones, but word, buddy. Word.


It'd be only a question of time, after that.
 
 
alas
01:07 / 04.05.06
I believe that some yuppies DO get erections from the WSJ. It's those yuppies who are the most frightening of all AND (in case you missed the point) THEY'RE NOT LIKE US.*

*"Us" are married (straight goes without saying), and we have no more children than we can afford, we are perfectly healthy because God Loves Us (except when he is Testing Us), we don't actually ever take public transportation-because there isn't any and even if there was it would just take us to god forsaken places like New York Sitty and who needs some place filled with people like this! And for that matter people like Stoatie who criticise the piano playing of a poor child of a good-for-nothing-slut who died THAT VERY DAY, and who, poor dear!, still has a heart of gold! For GOD's SAKES PEOPLE!!!!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
01:17 / 04.05.06
What, indeed, have we BECOME???


Still reckon the kid was probably poo, though. Not his fault, I hasten to add- his teacher was probably cheap, cos I doubt his slutty mum, God rest her soul, would have shelled out for a classy one.
 
 
astrojax69
02:51 / 04.05.06
they oughta have more seats on buses. then everyone would be happy, except the little brat 'casue he don' get to kick no-one no more...

some'n oughta write a letter, or some'n.
 
 
Baz Auckland
03:10 / 04.05.06
Forward this post and Bill Gates will give you $40,000,000,000,000.93

...someone actually sent that to me last week... It must have been the first time in 5 years I've seen that stupid thing...

Still beats the HEARTWARMING STORIES though...
 
 
Loomis
08:18 / 04.05.06
They’re all good points alas but I’m not sure that they’re relevant to this situation. While I have plenty of issues myself about childbearing as the dominant model in society (all discussed in the thread you mention), I don’t think it has any impact on whether you should give your seat up when asked by a person in need. And it’s not even the heartwarmingtastic slant of the original story that prompted jub to start the thread.

The crux for me is that when we start building a hierarchy of who deserves help and who doesn’t then we’ve pretty much already lost. If someone says they feel faint and would like to sit down then you let them. Shit, if someone purposely pulled their own leg off and threw it out the window and then asked for a seat I’d give it to them. Any sort of rhetoric about “deserving” tends to set off alarms for me. Who deserves half the things they have?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:20 / 04.05.06
Shit, if someone purposely pulled their own leg off and threw it out the window and then asked for a seat I’d give it to them.

I think it would be a moot point, as I would be giving a standing ovation.

I think what we're missing here, though, is that the tube train represents the holistic worldview.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:20 / 04.05.06
Yeah, and how the fuck did this 10 year-old turn into a "little brat" in some people's eyes?
 
 
Ganesh
08:49 / 04.05.06
Yeah, and how the fuck did this 10 year-old turn into a "little brat" in some people's eyes?

By behaving like one, I expect - although I expect the original account is embellished (or frankly invented) to provide a suitably 'moral' lesson/confirmation, for the reasons Alas describes.

In general, I agree that, if someone's actually asking for one's seat, one should give it up. In such a situation, I expect I'd feel slightly mortified at not having offered without being asked. Having said which, if someone doesn't ask, then I might or might not offer, depending on a whole load of factors (how tired they look vs how tired I feel). I'm ashamed to say my actions are often heavily influenced by those of my immediate peers and the Power of Situation eg. if no-one else has offered their seat, I'll sit there thinking, "why aren't they responding? am I being a mug?" A variant on the old Kitty Genovese thing, I guess.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:18 / 04.05.06
By behaving like one, I expect

Really? What was "brattish" about his behaviour, according to the account we have? He was, according to the account we have, the one person who took action to enable someone who might have been about to collapse to have a seat. Should he have been seen and not heard instead?
 
 
Ganesh
09:32 / 04.05.06
If I were observing a 10-year-old on the Tube behaving in that way to an adult then yes, I'd likely consider him a nasty little brat. Frankly, I wouldn't care if he possessed, for a child, such an abnormally evolved moral compass that he'd accurately assessed a potentially complex situation and successfully boiled it down to "I must act, for the good of that woman" (which I think is unlikely). In almost any such situation, I'd consider the child issuing orders to an adult in that way, and calling them "motherfucker" brattish.

Which is all somewhat moot, because I don't believe it happened that way, if it happened at all. We might as well be discussing the forensic ramifications of Little Nell's tragic death.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:34 / 04.05.06
So just to clarify, a preferable situation would have been if the child had minded his manners and his Ps and Qs, stood quietly to one side, and watched as the pregnant woman collapsed?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:36 / 04.05.06
I don't see why it's at all unlikely that the child might think "I must act, for the good of that woman", by the way. Was his moral compass evolved and complex - well, perhaps not. It sounds as if it was refreshingly simple.
 
 
Ganesh
09:39 / 04.05.06
So just to clarify, a preferable situation would have been if the child had minded his manners and his Ps and Qs, stood quietly to one side, and watched as the pregnant woman collapsed?

Because, surely, those were the only two possible outcomes, eh? If that heroic child hadn't bravely stepped in, the pregnant woman would surely have died in a pool of her own blood while onlookers watched. I don't think 10-year-olds should behave in that way towards adults, no. Within the limits of this mawkish, black-and-white morality tale, clearly the seated male should have given up his seat but no, I don't think that excuses the child's brattishness.

Hope that's clarified things for you.
 
 
Ganesh
09:42 / 04.05.06
I don't see why it's at all unlikely that the child might think "I must act, for the good of that woman", by the way. Was his moral compass evolved and complex - well, perhaps not. It sounds as if it was refreshingly simple.

Alternatively, he could've been relishing the opportunity to behave like a brat to an adult and have his behaviour applauded by all. The drrrama!

Perhaps we could move on to discussing Bruce Hornsby's piece of reportage, The Way It Is. Was the man in the silk suit at all justified in telling the poor old lady to "get a job"? Where was our heroic 10-year-old then? Playing Mozart?
 
 
odd jest on horn
09:49 / 04.05.06
Should he have been seen and not heard instead?

Maybe he should have been heard, rather than felt? On the shins, like.
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
10:21 / 04.05.06
If I were observing a 10-year-old on the Tube behaving in that way to an adult then yes, I'd likely consider him a nasty little brat. Frankly, I wouldn't care if he possessed, for a child, such an abnormally evolved moral compass that he'd accurately assessed a potentially complex situation and successfully boiled it down to "I must act, for the good of that woman" (which I think is unlikely). In almost any such situation, I'd consider the child issuing orders to an adult in that way, and calling them "motherfucker" brattish.

However at age 10 I remember being equally disgusted on a bus by a women who watched an old man stagger and finally fall over trying to hold on for safety. This occured after the elderly lady next to her had gestured to her to give up her seat. Had I been slightly more confident I may have called the women a shit head out of disgust. I wouldn't consider this sort of behaviour to be brattish, however at age 10 I was certainly less concerned with the social consequences of expressing my outrage.
 
 
Ganesh
10:37 / 04.05.06
Oh, sure, as a 10-year-old I too had a strong sense of moral certainty. I boiled complex situations down to black and white absolutes, in which the necessary course of action was obvious (to me). Whether one views that, with hindsight, as a refreshing clarity or as a simplistic self-righteousness is, perhaps, a matter of personal reflection.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:44 / 04.05.06
Ganesh, the fact that it may not be accurately reported or may even be a piece of fiction is of no consequence - we all discuss what happens in fiction, and inaccurate reportage, all the time, and we speculate on the motivations and morality of characters' behaviour in both. What you are basically saying is that while "clearly the seated male should have given up his seat", nobody should take action to make that happen if that involves bucking social conventions of propriety or the proper 'place' of children in relation to adults.

It strikes me that this is a fairly common attitude which can be seen applied to a variety of issues across the board - by which I mean not "this board" and certainly not any one poster, but one does hear it all the time - "I don't want the government to do X but I don't like those horrible protestors", "I don't want people to post hatespeech on my board, but I don't think anyone should be mean to them if they do"...
 
 
Spaniel
10:48 / 04.05.06
Surely the child can be brattish and his actions desirable?

I don't have to like the kind of behaviour the child is displaying to like the outcome of his display.
 
 
Spaniel
10:50 / 04.05.06
Further, I can think his behaviour is wrong at one level without wishing for him to actually stop.
 
 
Seth
11:06 / 04.05.06
The whole kid being brattish thing smacks more of adult ego than the kid doing anything wrong. It only seems wrong to us because it's embarrassing to be shown up by a ten year old, we should keep them silent while we still have the power to do so to prevent such humiliation. Crush their developing sense of ethics and their valid emotional reactions beneath what is socially proper. God forbid we treat them like people.
 
 
Ganesh
11:09 / 04.05.06
Ganesh, the fact that it may not be accurately reported or may even be a piece of fiction is of no consequence - we all discuss what happens in fiction, and inaccurate reportage, all the time, and we speculate on the motivations and morality of characters' behaviour in both.

It isn't "of no consequence" at all if we are then going on to generalise to non-fictional situations or seriously attempt to put ourselves mentally in those situations. Speculation is fine, but if we're criticising others on their response to the source material, then it's valid to express distrust of that source material. In this case, we're handed a morality tale which is almost insultingly simplistic in terms of the tropes it hands us. We're encouraged to project certain attributes onto the ciphers within the parable, and thus lead to a particular moral/emotional conclusion.

I have a problem with these ciphers, because I don't think they bear a great deal of scrutiny. Additionally, as I've said, I find the whole business of castigating others for failing to produce the requisite theoretical moral response problematic, because I'm aware that, as humans, we tend to underestimate the power of situation to override the moral certainties we happily espouse when not in-situ.

I don't think any of this means we shouldn't speculate, but I think we should be wary of drawing particularly strong conclusions from such speculation - particularly when it's based on such a paper-thin scenario as this one.

What you are basically saying is that while "clearly the seated male should have given up his seat", nobody should take action to make that happen if that involves bucking social conventions of propriety or the proper 'place' of children in relation to adults.

No, that is not what I am "basically saying" - which kind of illustrates my point about generalising from a hypothetical scenario. I said I don't think 10-year-olds should, generally speaking, issue commands to adults or call them "motherfucker". They certainly shouldn't kick adults on the shins in this kind of situation.

I say this because, much as we might romanticise the "refreshingly simple" moral compass of a 10-year-old, the situation here is much more complex than has been portrayed. We know nothing about the seated man other than the few broad strokes which have been provided to give the impression that he's a selfish, plutocratic bastard. He might as well be wearing a black hat, or being booed on his entrance. He might have severe ostoearthritis, like Gypsy Lantern, or have brittle bone disease (mind those shins!) or have just been bereaved or diagnosed with a fatal illness. Anything, really, but within this simplistic little parable, he's simply the Bad Guy.

One would expect a child not to think of any of this, and to view the situation in simple Good/Bad terms, but I don't think that polarising viewpoint is necessarily to be applauded (either metaphorically or, in this case, presumably literally, Hollywood style, by all the rhubarbing onlookers who haven't given up their own seats).

It strikes me that this is a fairly common attitude which can be seen applied to a variety of issues across the board - by which I mean not "this board" and certainly not any one poster, but one does hear it all the time - "I don't want the government to do X but I don't like those horrible protestors", "I don't want people to post hatespeech on my board, but I don't think anyone should be mean to them if they do"...

So now our little heartwarming tale has become generalised to a "fairly common attitude" across Barbelith. I'd disagree; I think you're reaching, overgeneralising and oversimplifying. In doing so, you risk reducing a variety of complex attitudes and situations (protests, hatespeech) to the level of a homespun homily-by-email, in which the protagonists are conveniently simple ciphers.

Ultimately, it depends whether one aspires to the worldview of a 10-year-old child. I'd beware of such romanticising of 'simplicity': I actually see this sort of yearning for 'simple' moral certainties as profoundly conservative.
 
 
Ganesh
11:18 / 04.05.06
The whole kid being brattish thing smacks more of adult ego than the kid doing anything wrong. It only seems wrong to us because it's embarrassing to be shown up by a ten year old, we should keep them silent while we still have the power to do so to prevent such humiliation. Crush their developing sense of ethics and their valid emotional reactions beneath what is socially proper. God forbid we treat them like people.

I don't think it's only wrong because it's embarrassing to be shown up by a child. I think it's wrong because, in this hypothetical situation, the child is acting (issuing orders, "motherfucker"ing, kicking) based on a simplistic 10-year-old view of the situation. In this instance, he may well be right - the standing woman may well be more in need of the seat than the seated man - but he's decided that based on a black-and-white view of the world, which I think is highly likely to be a simplistic one.

I'm all for nurturing a sense of ethics in children, but I don't think this need necessarily involve applauding them for jumping into potentially complex situations in order to verbally and physically harangue adults who they believe are wrong. When I was 10, I thought it was wrong to smoke. Luckily, my parents prevented me from shouting at smokers, or striking the cigarettes from their mouths...
 
 
Spaniel
11:25 / 04.05.06
Actually scratch my last two posts, they were a bit bollocks.

Ganesh said it much better
 
 
Ganesh
11:33 / 04.05.06
Still reckon the kid was probably poo, though.

So, Stoatie, you're basically trashing the work of a poor, beautiful, bereaved child as "poo"? Your callous lack of compassion strikes me as indicative of a common moral malaise across Barbelith and probably the whole wide world.
 
 
alas
11:49 / 04.05.06
While I have plenty of issues myself about childbearing as the dominant model in society (all discussed in the thread you mention), I don’t think it has any impact on whether you should give your seat up when asked

Nor do I. I do, of course, realize, that the story was not framed explicitly by Jub in the way that I describe, I was describing MISDIRECTED anger and what I think has the very slimmest possibility of being a case of MISEXPLAINED "gwshnsh" reaction to an EMAILED story. So, I was offering an alternative way for him to explore what might be making him feel so icky about this story. We all sometimes do this: misdirect and misname our anger. So, here's a potentially graceful way out, which in particular his subsequent comments had all but blocked, but which I believe to still be viable. Get it?

I believe the kid became a brat in my explication du texte. For which I ... gosh, I don't know. I accept that it might not be the most precise term for the complexity of that character and that my hermeneutics may be flawed, or they may be unduly colored by the fact that I get one of these annoying emails at least once a week from my relatives, and I seem to have a compulsive interest in reading them, which I generally regret because at their worst they are about things like school prayer and the evilll teachers who won't let the good kids pray (that one was last year), or even at one point professors who are shown to be ignorant of the brilliant arguments of creation science by the "innocent" question or action of a christian student. More often it's a story like this, in which the value being promoted is a little more politics neutral, but which is nevertheless about policing class boundaries. I.e., there is a stock character of a cold-hearted, "NOT US" adult in these story and a parallel one of a warm-hearted child, often behaving just a wee bit out of order by middle class standards but for a good cause, and around which we reify our identities as good-middle-class Americans.

This email simply has all the earmarks of that story. That's all.

My ethics are: yes, all people should give up seats on the tube to persons in need, even if we have no idea why they are in need. All people should give up a seat when asked, particularly if the person mentions an immediate physical problem--unless of course we ourselves are physically incapacitated in some way, which also may not be visible to the outside viewer and may in some cases have to be left to God to determine, if there is no clairvoyant 10-year-old handy to show us the way.

Were there no other passengers on the train, I ask you? I ask you! Did it have to come to the kicking of the yuppie shins? Could not some other passenger have ostentatiously vacated his seat, with a little moue of displeasure at our soulless Mr. Warbucks, and gained the approbation of the milling crowd, the eternal gratitude of the fainting woman, and the calming of the righteous ire in the 10-year-old's heart?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:53 / 04.05.06
a poor, beautiful, bereaved child

Let's be fair. He was probably ugly too.
 
 
Ganesh
12:01 / 04.05.06
Alas, stop it, I'm tearing up.
 
 
Spaniel
12:09 / 04.05.06
I only love beautiful children.
 
 
alas
12:12 / 04.05.06
Let's be fair. He was probably ugly too.

Stoatie, I'm warning you! He was a BEAUTIFUL IF UNKEMPT CHILD WHO PLAYED... And the TEACHER, in this case, was the potentially COLD-HEARTED (but in this case "one of us" people) who was, rightly, TRANSFORMED his UNORTHODOX ACTIONS!!!!

Hey, wait... I just realized the story is still in my inbox, complete with >>>> showing how often it's been forwarded--which I always read as a positive index of an email's ethical complexity, myself.

So I was re-reading it (I had only skimmed it once, and you'll notice, Stoat, that not only did he play the Mozart well, but... well, there's a kicker at the end of the story that I totally missed the last time). Read it, and WEEP, Ganesh! WEEP, Stoat!, WEEP FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!:

>>>> >Robby's Night
>>>> > True Story -- Worth Reading!!!
>>>> > At the prodding of my friends, I am writing this story. My name
is
>>>> >Mildred Hondorf. I am a former elementary school music teacher
from
>>>> >Des
>>>>
>>>> >Moines, Iowa. I've always supplemented my income by teaching
piano
>>>> >lessons-something I've done for over 30 years.
>>>> >
>>>> > Over the years I found that children have many levels of
musical
>>>> >ability. I've never had the pleasure of having a prodigy though I
have
>>>> >taught some talented students.
>>>> > However I've also had my share of what I call "musically
challenged"
>>>> >pupils. One such student was Robby. Robby was 11 years old when
his
>>>> >mother (a single Mom) dropped him off for his first piano lesson.
I
>>>> >prefer that students (especially boys!) begin at an earlier age,
which
>>>> >I explained to Robby.
>>>> >
>>>> > But Robby said that it had always been his mother's dream to
hear
>>>> > him
>>>>
>>>> >play the piano. So I took him as a student. Well, Robby began
with his
>>>> >piano lessons and from the beginning I thought it was a hopeless
>>>> >endeavor.
>>>> > As much as Robby tried, he lacked the sense of tone and basic
rhythm
>>>> >needed to excel. But he dutifully reviewed his scales and some
>>>> >elementary pieces that I require all my students to learn.
>>>> > Over the months he tried and tried while I listened and cringed
and
>>>> >tried to encourage him. At the end of each weekly lesson he'd
always
>>>> >say, "My mom's going to hear me play someday." But it seemed
hopeless.
>>>> >He just did not have any inborn ability. I only knew his mother
from a
>>>> >distance as she dropped Robby off or waited in her aged car to
pick
>>>> >him
>>>>
>>>> >up. She always waved and smiled but never stopped in.
>>>> > Then one day Robby stopped coming to our lessons.
>>>> > I thought about calling him but assumed because of his lack of
>>>> >ability, that he had decided to pursue something else. I also was
glad
>>>> >that he stopped coming He was a bad advertisement for my
teaching!
>>>> > Several weeks later I mailed to the student's homes a flyer on
the
>>>> >upcoming recital. To my surprise Robby (who received a flyer)
asked me
>>>> >if he could be in the recital. I told him that the recital was
for
>>>> >current pupils and because he had dropped out he really did not
>>>>qualify.
>>>> >He said that his mother had been sick and unable to take him to
piano
>>>> >lessons but he was still practicing. "Miss Hondorf I've just got
to
>>>> >play!" he insisted.
>>>> > I don't know what led me to allow him to play in the recital.
Maybe
>>>> >it was his persistence or maybe it was something inside of me
saying
>>>> >that it would be all right. The night for the recital came. The
high
>>>> >school gymnasium was packed with parents, friends and relatives.
I put
>>>> >Robby up last in the program before I was to come up and thank
all the
>>>> >students and play a finishing piece. I thought that any damage he
>>>> >would
>>>>
>>>> >do would come at the end of the program and I could always
salvage his
>>>> >poor performance through my "curtain closer."
>>>> > Well, the recital went off without a hitch. The students had
been
>>>> >practicing and it showed. Then Robby came up on stage. His
clothes
>>>> >were
>>>>
>>>> >wrinkled and his hair looked like he'd run an eggbeater through
it.
>>>> >"Why didn't he dress up like the other students?" I thought. "Why
>>>> >didn't his mother at least make him comb his hair for this
special
>>>>night?"
>>>> >
>>>> > Robby pulled out the piano bench and he began. I was surprised
when
>>>> >he announced that he had chosen Mozart's Concerto #21 in C Major.
I
>>>> >was
>>>>
>>>> >not prepared for what I heard next. His fingers were light on the
>>>> >keys,
>>>>
>>>> >they even danced nimbly on the ivories. He went from pianissimo
to
>>>> >fortissimo. From allegro to virtuoso. His suspended chords that
Mozart
>>>> >demands were magnificent! Never had I heard Mozart played so well
by
>>>> >people his age. After six and a half minutes he ended in a grand
>>>> >crescendo and everyone was on their feet in wild applause.
>>>> > Overcome and in tears I ran up on stage and put my arms around
Robby
>>>> >in joy. "I've never heard you play like that Robby! How'd you do
it? "
>>>> >Through the microphone Robby explained: "Well Miss Hondorf . ..
..
>>>> >remember I told you my Mom was sick? Well, actually she had
cancer and
>>>> >passed away this morning. And well . she was born deaf so tonight
was
>>>> >the first time she ever heard me play. I wanted to make it
special."
>>>> >
>>>> > There wasn't a dry eye in the house that evening. As the people
from
>>>> >Social Services led Robby from the stage to be placed into foster
>>>> >care,
>>>>
>>>> >noticed that even their eyes were red and puffy and I thought to
>>>> >myself
>>>>
>>>> >how much richer my life had been for taking Robby as my pupil.
>>>> > No, I've never had a prodigy but that night I became a prodigy.
. .
>>>> >of Robby's. He was the teacher and I was the pupil - For it is he
that
>>>> >taught me the meaning of perseverance and love and believing in
>>>> >yourself and maybe even taking a chance in someone and you don't
know
>>>>why.
>>>> >
>>>> > Robby was killed in the senseless bombing of the Alfred P.
Murrah
>>>> >Federal Building in Oklahoma City in April of 1995. And now, a
>>>> >footnote
>>>>
>>>> >to the story.
>>>> > If you are thinking about forwarding this message, you are
probably
>>>> >thinking about which people on your address list aren't the
>>>> >"appropriate" ones to receive this type of message. The person
who
>>>> >sent
>>>>
>>>> >this to you believes that we can all make a difference. So many
>>>> >seemingly trivial interactions between two people present us with
a
>>>> >choice: Do we act with compassion or do we pass up that
opportunity
>>>> >and
>>>>
>>>> >leave the world a bit colder in the process?
>>>> > .


I don't know if you all got the moral of the story there? Did you? These things are so subtle.
 
 
Ganesh
12:20 / 04.05.06
ROBBEEEEEE!!

I'm inspired, Alas, now I'm all cried out. I'm going to dedicate my life to the study of Mozart.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:25 / 04.05.06
I actually think I hate Robby. And it's not even his fault!!!

I think I'm going to Hell.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:25 / 04.05.06
Hang on... as far as I can tell, Robby stops going to classes, then turns up for a recital. In between these two stages, he learns to deliver a virtuoso performance. This suggests to me that the only thing holding him back was one Mildred Hondorf, who was STEALING money from his CANCEROUS DEAF MOTHER while delivering a standard of tuition so awful as to RETARD her child's musical development.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:28 / 04.05.06
More often it's a story like this, in which the value being promoted is a little more politics neutral, but which is nevertheless about policing class boundaries.

Wait... so the you think that the kid who says "motherfucker" represents middle class values, rather than man reading the Wall Street Journal? It's the adult who is being othered? With respect, alas, I don't believe this to be an accurate summary of all reactions to this story. I think you're quite right about class being a factor, however.
 
  

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