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Underground > Comic Books >

Fantasy Justice League

  
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
Mario
21:45 / 29.04.06
It is indeed a metagene power, possibly caused by a urse from the JSA foe The Wizard. As one of the top martial artists in the DCU (and a sort of student of Lady Shiva) she would fit perfectly in a fisticuff-based JLA.
 
 
Aertho
01:21 / 30.04.06
You know, that Project Rooftop redesign of Wonder Woman pretty much negates, if not invalidates, the potential for Black Canary.

By making Princess Diana a comfortable, stylish, street-level shit-kicker, and putting the mythological/Super-superhero stuff secondary, you make Dinah redundant. The Justice League is all about icons, right? So you've got the Magical Showgirl in Zatanna, Legendary Goddess in Wonder Woman, Iconic Strength with Barda, Hawkgirl/woman is kind of ...debatable really, and Catwoman is Femme Fatale. That leaves BC as the Lady Vigilante; which, I'm assuming, means an essentially human kind of story -something you shouldn't get from Wonder Woman.

Others have attempted to give Dinah her due as a "founding" member for the JLA, but like most females in the DCU, she can't sell a book on her own. That's not a dig on Birds of Prey -it's actually praise. BoP is somewhat successful as a comic, because it showcases relationships between several protagonists, and while agents sometimes work alone, the ladies are always a team. Perhaps that can be BC's new schtick: she's the superhero social butterfly, and has friendships with everyone, on every level of herowork.

In any case, the costume on the page previous seems more Donna Troy as Wonder Girl than Princess Diana of Themyscira as Wonder Woman. Theyve gone and ruined Donna again, and worse this time by making her an actual goddess, and then a replacement for the useless Harbinger. Wonder Girl/Troia always seemed to fill in that gap that makes Wonder Woman detractors insist Diana's not a modern gal. Diana's the premiere Superheroine. She shouldn't be a modern gal. Donna's a lightened up version of Wonder Woman, as Nightwing is a lightened up version of Batman. Donna ought to be a comfortable, stylish, street-level shit-kicker who puts familiarity with the mythological/Super-superhero stuff secondary.

Anyone want to debate Hawkgirl's importance to the League of Superhero Icons? Personally, I'd still prefer Shayera as Hawkwoman over this Kendra "girl". Not sure why, though.
 
 
Mario
02:09 / 30.04.06
The only unique characterization Hawkgirl/woman had going for her is, as far as I know, she was the first (and possibly only) female counterpart to a superhero who wasn't a sidekick, but an equal partner (especially in the Silver Age).

Supergirl was a junior partner. So was Batgirl (as opposed to Bat-Girl and Batwoman, who were never really taken seriously). But Hawkgirl was different. She could kick butt just as well as her male counterpart, and often did.
 
 
LDones
05:12 / 30.04.06
Okay, here goes.

My league would start out with the three lead positions occupied by Oracle, Nightwing, and Zatanna, and would hinge on a byzantine plot involving a lost League, S.H.A.D.E., a secret-op 5-man League (involving Animal Man and Frankenstein), the disappearance of the entire Green Lantern Corps and the planet Oa, a pregnant Mogo, Snapper Carr, A Kanjar-Ro/Despero/Fernus the Burning Martian Team-Up, and Lex Luthor and his very own hand-picked Justice League of America as Earth's Last Defenders in the face of a full-scale alien invasion of Nightmare Star-Creatures.


Anyway, premise - more later:


The JLA is missing.

No one knows why, but they've vanished off the face of the Earth. Space has gone quiet, and no contact has been received from any known Green Lantern. In the Big7-JLA's absence, someone decides it was time they ran their own Justice League.



1) Barbara Gordon - Oracle
Finally stepping up to the plate, Babs puts her vast information network and master-of-manipulation tutelage under Batman to the ultimate use - assembling the new Justice League. The new league is a carefully selected blend of street-level superheroes and more inexperienced big guns - chosen particularly for Babs' abillity to 'manage' and 'direct' as she finally sees the JLA under the kind of leadership she can trust - her own. Her team choices are specifically non-meta or heavily-powered-but-inexperienced - and leaning toward younger, less-established, more malleable personalities. Barbara's filling Batman's role of unflappable motivator and genius tactician.


2) Dick Grayson - Nightwing
Serving as her right-hand and General, Barbara has her ex-fiancee in proper check as the King in her chessgame. Dick's taken Batman's place in the JLA before, and falls right in line to fill the void left by his old guardian's absence. Dick would be an Intuitive Batman, without quite the incredible deductive powers of his forebear, but all the emotional balance and intuition the Dark Knight deprioritizes. Barbara's capable sub, content for the moment to let someone else take the heat of leading while he concentrates on keeping the team together and keeping the earth in one piece. Nightwing's filling Superman's shoes - Always in first, leading by example with quick decisions and super-compassion - having learned well from both father figures of Clark and Bruce, Nightwing keeps tabs on other league members and goes out of his way to ensure they all feel 'in the loop' and 'part of the team'.


3) Zatanna Zatara
More Justice League experience than anyone on Babs' short list, Zatanna brings intuition and world-wise experience of cosmic threats to the team, taking J'onn's place as tactician and emotional backbone for the league. She's also arguably the most powerful magician currently on the planet, and someone Barbara knows how to keep in tow. Zatanna'd have to be in single-mother mode on this team to a group of people who feel either underpowered or inexperienced. She's also been pioneering a hands-off magical-monitor duty system that warns the League when something off-kilter is happening in the world - a sort of Cosmic Storm Warning System, that would also keep her off a lot of the frontlines in battle, as she tried to manage the probability fields, Scarlet-Witch style, to magic her way into favorable outcomes.

She may or may not have a sub of her own, in the form of Misty Kilgore (above), assisting with her daily activities as she turns her attentions to the League and the world-at-large.


The league needs its heavy hitters, and Oracle has her head set on two she can keep a handle on.


4) Power Girl
A slacker in her early 20's who can fly faster than sound and crush buildings with her bare hands. Kara's the ultimate heavy-in-waiting, just itching for someone like Babs to mold and shape her into a disciplined powerhouse on par with Superman. Malleable in behavior and eager to do a good job, Kara needs leadership to properly apply her crazy powers and settle down at the end of the day. Zatanna would take her under her wing to help get at the creeping insecurity and directionlessness that she'd be experiencing as at her age - Zatanna'd take her out for drunken nights on the town and help her own her appearance, as something powerful for her. She'd also be trying to bond with the league's other super-strong invulnerable person...


5) Alyx Harrower - Bulleteer
Fresh off the beating back of the Sheeda and the crisis in Metropolis, has decided to devote her time to superheroics - for at least awhile. Hoping to get a spot on a small team, she's startled and not a little uncomfortable when the call comes asking her to join the Big Time - needing the room and board/security the League has to offer and just directionless enough to go ahead with it, she hops on board as another manageable personality with absurd power. By this stage she's also learned to turn her Smartskin-enhanced strength into a kind of super-speed, making her a human Bullet Train when needed, and the closest thing to a speedster this team has. Alyx also brings a kind of humanist perspecitve, augmenting Nightwing's own compassionate tendencies with her desire to work problems out intuitively and with smarts/negotiation before smashing the crap out of things.


6) Connor Hawke - Green Arrow II
Calling in a marker, Oracle brings Connor back into the JLA he once left, feeling way in over his head - he's older now, and more assured. With his father's presence again in the world as Green Arrow, Connor feels less pressure to follow in his footsteps, and is ready to serve a global Justice League. As one of the most effective martial artists on the planet, Connor brings more of the stealth, street-level effectiveness, and readiness-to-follow-orders that Barbara's aiming for. Under his new JLA tenure, Connor would be responsible for absurd feats of zen that cross the line from merely superlative actions to supernatural events, tapping into a kind of unified field of martial arts energies that give him an almost telekinetic mastery/understanding over his physical surroundings.


7) Jake Jordan - The Manhattan Guardian
After exemplary performance in New York, Metropolis and taking a punch from Doomsday, Jake Jordan's face is known worldwide as a prime example of human achievment in the presence of superhuman odds. Riding high on the celebrity, Jake is only partially hesitant to join the A-Team of the Justice League - and is in over his head from the get-go. Oracle's chosen him as a PR boost for the league, and because she knows how to push the buttons of a family man out of his depth - but Jordan's mettle is tougher than anyone realizes, and his connection with the reckless and increasingly enormous Newsboy Army will pull the League out of the fire more than once.

----------

I'll post my ideas for their plotline after a happy dinner...
 
 
Aertho
05:58 / 30.04.06
1. it's Alix with an i.

2. Although 7S heavy, I like your roster! I can see them getting along fairly well.

3. Why does everybody think Jake Jordan belongs on the JLA? I love that he's tied to the city of New York for reasons greater than "home". It's his job. Globetrotting with the JLA? Carla would not be cool with it.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:16 / 30.04.06
I like the idea of Black Canary's key character trait being her sociability ~ that plays well off the idea that vigilantes male and female have to be mostly hard-ass, miserable loners (Batman, Nightwing, Question all fall into that category here).

I'm thinking now of Dinah Lance as a successful, mid-thirtysomething NYC professional, presented as attractive and active despite the fact that she edges out of the usual age bracket of DCU "babes". Without going fully into Sex and the City territory, Dinah could be someone who networks loads socially and, while she may have a relationship history with Ollie, she dates regularly and values and trusts most her tight group of female friends (Oracle, Huntress, maybe Batgirl, Selina?).

Because she's retained long-term friendships with these women in both their civilian and professional crime-fighting modes, she's got an incredible "team" of her own if she wants information or back-up, from both sides of the law (if she's also pals, perhaps at one friend-of-friend remove, with Kara Zor-L, that's very heavy duty). Though she doesn't see it that way, as a team; to her, these are people she loves and values, and has known since 1988, 1993 or whatever ~ college, first jobs, first active years as a crime-fighter.

It'd be interesting to have specifically female friendship as something that helps make Black Canary a force to be reckoned with, especially among people who've consistently told themselves and others that to succeed as a crimefighter you have to work alone, with no loved ones or intimate contacts, making that sacrifice for the sake of the war on crime. Her network is based on genuine affection, trust and shared personal history, not some team she's assembled professionally.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:41 / 30.04.06
I'm thinking this kind of woman, in appearance and unflappable demeanour, although Foster's character in this movie is a cold, cynical manipulator and Dinah Lance would also have a genuine & warm side.

  
 
LDones
08:53 / 30.04.06
Continuing from my roster post above...

-----

So the ideal JLA - the Big 7 - Have always been god-like, and even moreso as time has passed and their powers expand. I like them that way.

But my ideal Justice League is specifically about a new generation stepping up to the plate and filling the shoes of demi-gods for real - with a plot moving the Big-7 League even further out to the fringes of cosmic plots as a new generation comes in to do their old work At least for awhile, beginning to move the OG JLA into a similar kind of position that the New Gods hold now - distant, slightly aloof, and ultra-powerful, working on a level beyond anything normal people can imagine, while the younger generation accepts their place as more grounded deities setting an example for humanity, even while they do their best to live up to the examples set for them by their now missing forebears. As above, so below, etc.

Here's my utterly fanciful and idle JL Manifesto
Self-indulgently enormous post ahead
------

The JLA is missing. It's been nearly a year since anyone saw their primary membership, and while crises have been in mercifully short supply, the remaining players in the super-community are restless - particularly at the lack of a back-up plan in the event of their disappearance.

After a major crisis in downtown Gotham, Barbara Gordon takes the lead to form a new Justice League - specifically tasked to be the bright new face of Earth's superhero defenses - and completely under her control. In secret meetings with Nightwing and Zatanna, Oracle seems certain that the former League is dead, and that their old resources must be used to defend the Earth. Out with the old, in with the new.

After the initial invites, and a civilian-clothing meeting in Zatanna's San Francisco home ("I made out with Barry Allen on that couch."), their first mission is facing down Amazo (with all the powers of the old league) demolishing downtown Los Angeles. Oracle coordinates police & paramedic services in a dance to keep civilians out of the fray as Zatanna sits on a rooftop and tries to tussle/reason with what she calls Amazo's soul - which appears to her as the ghosts of the former Justice League.

Nightwing leads the troops on the ground against a raging, existentially bereft Amazo, who has come to believe that his existence is utterly without meaning, adolescent despair and rage with superpowers. Alix tries to calm him down in between massive explosions of super-speed, heat vision, and green lantern energy - Power Girl keeps him occupied and in the air when she can, while Green Arrow keeps himself and Jake alive against insane odds through the miracle of Zen (which seems to slow time down for him), slowly weakening Amazo's structure with briliantly-placed arrows until the robot finally just collapses under its own weight, and the weight of its despair. (Jake Jordan: "God, I was useless.")


Their headquarters: The Batcave, rigged up with the old JLA teleporters and re-purposed as Oracle's new base of operations - Dick's moved back to Gotham, and Oracle's moved into Wayne Manor. Alfred, old and on a cane, amuses himself by referring to Babs as "Master Barbara" and being a liason between her and Dick, who don't keep any contact as civilians despite living in the same town.

-------

Nightwing takes a certain comfort in taking orders from Oracle, who he believes in, and who enjoys ordering him, though they keep no out-of-the-office contact. Dick and Zatanna act like old friends, and both feel uncomfortable with the appropriation of the resources of their forebears. Zatanna feels old mentoring Power Girl, and gets along well with Alix, who tries very hard to separate her life on the job in the League and her private time in her new northern California home. Kara wants very much to get to know Alix, who keeps her distance - this is just her job. Misty has a crush on Kara.

Jake has trouble rationalizing his place on the team, feeling impotent in the face of his big reputation and now international acclaim as a Grade-A All-American Superhero. Connor spends time with Jake and tries to nudge him into Transcendental Meditation to get to the heart of the relationship schisms he has between his job and his wife, Carla - who, despite making her peace with Jake's nature, is anything but amused at her husband's newer, even higher-profile/risk work. Jake also feels obligated to present a responsible facade as he develops a closer identification with the kids across America that call themselves members of the Newsboy Army - who worship him like a father.

After a few more missions proving themselves against threats of escalating size and intensity (one against a great, black star creature in the shape of a bat, destroying a Brazilian city), exploring their abilities, and learning to use them to augment one anothers' effectiveness while getting past first-time jitters, Zatanna's radar suddenly goes off the charts:

There's something *big* far off in space - images of nightmare landscapes of starry tar as wide as whole solar systems, bubbling with spontaneously generated organisms of pure rage and hate and fear - detaching and heading straight for earth. Armies of creatures like the one they'd faced in South America.

--------

The remainder of the convoluted plot has them eventually sneaking onto a private spaceport to see what's being brought down to Earth and finding LexCorp ties to a cosmic smuggling operation. Babs insists on coming with them for the mission, which goes horribly awry when they're discovered by the heavily armed human defense force there. Oracle's captured by four mysterious figures and brought to a shuttlecraft, which seems to mysteriously explode, setting off a chain reaction that levels the entire complex, the JL barely escaping with their lives thanks to quick intervention from Power Girl and Bulleteer.

And from the blackness of space across radiowaves comes the transmission: "Oracle to S.H.A.D.E. - We're in. Preparing for hyperspace."

--------
 
 
LDones
08:54 / 30.04.06
From there, Oracle and *another* of her secret teams is off in space on the real mission - to locate the Justice League and the Green Lantern Corps by traveling to their last known positions. An elite team comprised of Steel, Animal Man, S.H.A.D.E. operative Frankenstein, and (with Adam Strange and other space-faring heroes also missing) Snapper Carr, formerly of the JLA and the Blasters, as navigator. Animal Man doesn't know why he's been asked out into space, but trusts Barbara, and ultimately, Batman - it was his idea to have Barbara set up the new league and train them enough to watch the Earth while she went off-world to recover the League. There was a contingency plan, but only Barbara was privy to it.

Steel's their technical man and there to find out where Clark is. Snapper knows the region of space, and they couldn't find anyone better. Frankenstein's watching them for S.H.A.D.E. Babs wears a a space-suit with bat-ears and, in the absence of her own ambulatory devices, gets carried around by Frankenstein like Master Blaster.

The old league went missing in the region of space near Oa - which has been consumed by a tarry black space-morass of living nightmares. After a space oddyssey and a terrifying encounter with the creatures, the new Blasters find a lone Batman in space, sleepless for weeks and running insane calculations in a space-station just out of nightmare-range. He only says that the former league went into the nightmare, and never came back - he's been trying to figure out a way in ever since. Animal Man says the nightmares aren't a part of the morphic field, but that something deep within the system-wide blackness IS - and it's barely conscious

So Oracle, Batman, Frankenstein, Animal Man, Snapper Carr and Steel prepare to head into the nightmare and find the Justice League, while a nightmare force six beasts strong, each half the size of a city, is heading straight for earth.

--------

The nightmares are the dream-visions of a comatose Mogo made manifest - Captured by Kanjar-Ro and his pirate Armada, nightmares made real through the mind control of Despero and the super-telepathy of a newly restored Fernus, the Burning Martian - who is hoping to feed on the death and destruction of an entirely new form of life, when the planet-child will be born and the nightmares will consume it - the child of Mogo.

Mogo is pregnant, and hibernating before the birth cycle will complete itself. But to reproduce it must devour an enormous amount of energy and light - The supervillains in question were able to trick the barely conscious Mogo into swallowing whole the planet Oa and every living Green Lantern who came to investigate. All but 2 - Kyle Rayner and John Stewart - who used their rings to convert the investigating former League into the last of the Green Lanterns - Clark, Diana, J'onn, and Wally. Only Bruce abstained, under the idea that it might be strategically important to have an invisible member out there who didn't give off Lantern energy.


The whole thing would culminate with the newest League flying out to deep space on a suicide mission to destroy the nightmare from the inside, Batman taking up the mantle of the Last Green Lantern, S.H.A.D.E. appointing Lex Luthor to form Earth's defense force (including Prometheus, a newly thawed out Triumph, and a less-than-enthusiastic Supergirl), an insane space battle (between the League, the nightmares, Kanjar-Ro's fleet, the Rannians, and the stow-away Newsboy Army in Space), Snapper Carr becoming a real Justice Leaguer, and the secret machinations of Time-azo, the ultra-powered Amazo last seen wrestling with Hourman in a portal to the 853rd Century.


The Bulleteer and Power Girl smash Despero - Zatanna, Nightwing, and Green Lantern Oracle face down Fernus the Burning - and Green Arrow fires a single arrow through an entire space fleet to disable its mothership and end the war.

Jake leads the Newsboy Armada in space (finally accepting that his image/what he represents is his superpower), Luthor successfully defends the Earth from alien invasion, Oa and the GL Corps are found but sacrifice all their power for a year, and Batman appears to sacrifice himself by taking in all the GL energy to feed the healthy birth of the Mogo-child.


The end result would actually leave Batman as the universe's only Green Lantern for a year, an idea I've fantasized about since I was a kid, and would firmly establish the new League as the mega-heroes they should be, letting the old League step out of the spotlight (for awhile).
 
 
LDones
09:29 / 30.04.06
That was such a... powerful nerdgasm.

I think I had that sitting there since I was 9.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
09:39 / 30.04.06
A couple of questions/observations I hope you won't mind, LDones ~ first, you seem to spend some time building up the working relationships and dynamics of Oracle's League, but then leave that team totally behind when the adventure shifts to outer space... that jars for me. We're suddenly working with a new set of characters, and the original lot, who we've got to know and like, are out of the picture until the end (apparently).

Secondly, you seem fond of Babs Gordon, and rightly so I reckon; surely in space, if she can have a suit with bat-ears, she can also get some kind of exoskeleton or jetpacks so she doesn't have to be carried around?
 
 
LDones
10:04 / 30.04.06
I spent a lot of time at the beginning and less at the end because I didn't want to write the actual series in the thread; and in mercy to board-readers I did my best to shore up the details and keep the broad strokes as my typing bored on.

In my imagination the League is having more adventures on Earth while Oracle's in space, figuring out the mystery, figuring each other out, and ultimately saving the day for a new form of cosmic life to be born in Mogo-space while the secret team and the old league fight off an armada and Lex Luthor's Justice League defends Earth.

I think Barbara Gordon as a character has an enormous potential for 'growing up', and writers certainly seem to be following the through-line that she's more Batman at heart than anyone outside of Bruce Wayne. I tried to think of characters that could translate into new icons, and what those icons might represent as opposed to what the current JLA icons do.

And absolutely she'd have a suit to walk around in or ambulate in space at some point; but the Master Blaster image in lieu of one was interesting enough to namedrop.


Stream of consciousness, though. It's interesting what plops out when you take the taste-and-sense barriers loose and throw yourself into a few hours of Ultimate Comics-gasm Imagino-fanwank. Connecting the dots of subconscious themes about despair as opportunity for (re)birth, stepping out of the way for progress or taking it by the mane, etc.


So how would your Pale Martian gig go down, wunderstarr?

Or what would your Big-21 plotline be, Cass? Or Mario, or anybody?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
11:32 / 30.04.06
Sorry, LDones, I wasn't nitpicking. I just think Barbara has become a pretty uninteresting character, perhaps because athleticism was so much a part of her as Batgirl, and with that taken away she just seems to be "librarian". On the other hand, someone shouldn't have to be able to walk, to be interesting.

As for my JLA, I find the concept development and character notes more interesting than detailed plotting, so I'm not sure if I'm going to work out the whole story arc.
 
 
Mario
12:06 / 30.04.06
I don't have a specific plot in mind... I was just trying to take Cass's idea and run with it. Less of a Big 21 idea, more of a framework for a JLU-style team with specialized subgroups. You could even add more teams, like one specialized for underwater missions (as we played with a bit above).
 
 
Grady Hendrix
15:03 / 30.04.06
It's been said so much it's become a cliche, but it's probably true: if women ran the world it would be a better place. Micro-banks, that make small business loans in less developed countries, have all established a policy that they don't loan money to men. It's taken them years and years to come to this conclusion, but they've realized that by lending exclusively to women there's a higher repayment rate, the money is managed better, and the business is usually more successful. When men get the money they drink it all away and vanish.

The Justice League is supposed to protect the world from the big threats but they've become orbitting cleaners: aliens/super villains/gods gone crazy invade. JL defends. Threat neutralized. Lather, rinse, repeat. I would imagine that Wonder Woman and some of the other folks who might not be adrenaline junkies and instead want to do some good and have their patient - the planet - end up better than where it started, would eventually decide that it takes a woman to do a real job and they'd form their own splinter, all-female Justice League.


BARBARA GORDON, ORACLE - who better to make the planet a better place than the smartest, best connected techno-nerd who sits in the back and strategizes? She thinks long-term and has no super-ego ("I want to hit this guy first!") to deal with. You need a leader and she's a natural. But being this removed has a tendency to turn even the best-intentioned super-genius into an "ends justifies the means" control freak with no room for emotional outbursts from the troops.


WONDER WOMAN - the only person who can rival Oracle for leadership, her response to most problems is to hit them until they don't move any more. But she's also always been the idealist. She's seen a better world, an all-female world, and knows that a matriarchy is the only sustainable form of government for poor, war-torn Earth.


POWER GIRL - anti-intellectual, the closest thing to a good-time-gal the League has. She's a power house who's happy to cut loose and be on the first string for once. She's always been patronized and ogled by the boys, and so she'd naturally gravitate towards a team where the boys aren't even allowed in the door.


STARFIRE - some more royalty to butt heads with Princess Diana. Starfire is a first class heavy hitter but she's never been treated as such. On the Titans she was always criticized for her emotional outbursts but, frankly, they were always justified. An alien Wonder Woman with better hair.


BLACK CANARY - she's spent so long with Ollie Queen that some of his idealism is bound to have rubbed off on her, and she's nothing if not pragmatic so the idea of doing more with the bad guys than punching them in the nose every time they show up would appeal to her immensely. I like the idea that she's a networking, social creature, and with her mad combat skillz and her sonic scream (which doesn't get used nearly enough) she's a great power player. Probably the only person who understands strategy as well as Oracle and the only one who's involved with a guy who approves of what she's doing and has dinner waiting for her at the end of the day. She's an eternal mainstay of the DC Universe, and eternally underused. Also, she's older than a lot of these superheroes and would be something of a mentor to them.


JESSE QUICK - speedsters are great, and she's one who has never been entirely comfortable as a super hero. But as the member of a superpowered Peace Corps she might feel more at home. Plus, the speed formula has always been cooler than school (reciting math to gain superpowers? Righteous). If Oracle had a way for her to get her powers back she'd be one loyal soldier.


ZATANNA - she can do anything, and she's always been a bundle of fun. A celebrity. A superhero. A practical chick who's been burned once and is twice shy. Zatanna is the ultimate Swiss Army Knife superhero, and she needs something more meaningful in her life than just fighting demons.

An all-female superarmy out to protect the world from itself has unlimited potential. Annoyed male superheroes. Superheroines (like Mary Marvel) who think they're full of it. Guest stars galore (Huntress, Manhunter, Bulleteer). And a leader who learned from Batman but doesn't share his neurotic compulsions. These women want to cut to the root of problems and solve them permanently, not just hit them until they go away to come back and fight another day. DC has never allowed its super-powerful superheroines to really cut loose - but let off the leash, Zatanna, Wonder Woman, Power Girl and Starfire could be as powerful as Superman, Batman and the Martian Manhunter.

It's time to let the ladies loose.
 
 
Mario
15:07 / 30.04.06
I have an idea for a new, LA-based All-Star Squadron. Which thread would be best for it?
 
 
Aertho
15:23 / 30.04.06
Oh just put it here

Seeing all these Micro heroes is hilarious.
 
 
Mario
15:57 / 30.04.06
OK. This will be a little disorganized, because I only came up with it a few hours ago.

It all started, really, when I tweaked your JLA: Gold idea. That made me think "How would I write a book with Zauriel?"



And then it occured to me. While he's a relatively new character, he's technically been around for years. So he would make for a great mentor figure to a new hero, possibly one who also has a connection to the divine.

But what hero? And then it hit me. A way to bring back a character who left us too soon, heir to a magical legacy tied to one of the least-used mythologies in comics.



Of course, this cannot be Uno, but we KNOW the Society still exists, and there is a precedent for a future bearer (Azteka, from Rock Of Ages). My only real change would be to make Aztek actually Mexican, since that's where his heritage comes from.

However, while it might work as a "buddy book", it's also true that there hasn't been a consistent superteam in So. California since Infinity Inc. So I started looking for other possibilities.

The New Manhunter is in the right city, and I'd almost certainly start the book as an arc her her title, but she's not a team player. She's almost work best as a foil... someone who is forced to tolerate their existence, but doesn't like them that much.



Another possibility, of course, is fellow Morrison creation, and former stuntman, Buddy Baker. Technically, he lives in San Diego, but I could see him moving closer to LA, especially after the who Sub Diego mess.



But why would they be a team? It would require someone to push them into it. Someone who on more than one occasion has tried to grab the spotlight, but always seems to miss the brass ring.

Someone like Bette Kane, a.k.a. Flamebird.



The team also needs a powerhouse, someone who can slug it out with the badguys. And I think the perfect candidate is someone who probably could use a change of scenery, especially after 8C.



I'd probably allow some recurring guest stars, like Zatanna or Booster Gold, just to keep things interesting.

What do you think?
 
 
Aertho
16:28 / 30.04.06
I'm not sure if this is what you're intending, Mar, but I look at that team and hear the theme to Cheers. They're all wildly different characters with actual personalities lumped up together. What if they did just hang out together at some cape bar, forming a clique not unlike the Breakfast Club?

Aztek and Zauriel meet up with Buddy Baker for Morrisonesque intellectual discourse on the curves of spacetime while doing shots of Tequilah. Undercover Kate Spencer waves hi to the guys and they invite her over. She's not really part of the discussion, but she sits with them anyway. Meanwhile, Flamebird buys them a round and desperately wants to sit at their "cool kids" table. Then Kara gets off shift from Bishop duty and slides up to the bar.

That's only six. Zee and Booster might work fine, but the former's too independant, and the latter would be interested in higher status. Maybe Ralph?
 
 
Mario
16:36 / 30.04.06
I'm not actually sure what I was going for either, but I think it was more of a "Heroes For Hire" vibe. I could see Flamebird handing out fliers after a villain capture.

Honestly, I'd just as soon make it Zauriel & Aztek, but I couldn't think of a good title.
 
 
Aertho
16:51 / 30.04.06
Well. No matter what roster Meltzer comes up with, I'm sure Barbelith won't be happy unless Power Girl is a member.

Surprising, really.

Now here's an effing difficult Fantasy JLA Challenge. We've seen rosters that are Batman-centric with no Superman or Wonder Woman -those are fairly easy to build, as there's a bevy of heroes with similar goals and strategies. We can assume there's a brighter and optimistic variant for teams that are Superman-centric, with otherworldy powers and adventures at high speed flight. In the interest of franchise refinement, what would a Wonder Woman-centric JLA be like? Who would be on it?

1. No capes with heat vision.

2. No residents of Gotham.

Is there a roster of heroes that feels like the JLA, and can be led by Diana?
 
 
Mario
17:56 / 30.04.06
Well, there was the Justice League of Amazons, and Grady's variant (tho that's technically Oracle-centric) but I'd probably take a different approach.

Diana is a tactician and a diplomat. So her team would be chosen for their specific skills and contacts. Something like this:

1. Tempest. He's probably the most powerful underwater hero, and has a good relationship with several undersea nations.

2. Fire. She has espionage skills, and is probably the second-best known hero in South America (the #1, Manhunter, was outruled by the "heat vision" clause).

3. Vixen. Not only a powerful heroine in her own right, but also one who is comfortable in high society (thanks to her modeling gig).

4. Zatanna. Let's face it, she's THE liason to the magical community.

5. Red Star, partially as a concession to the Russian government, and partially because Diana is helping him deal with the loss of his family.

6. Connnor Hawke, taking a new codename (I suggest Monkey King). Diana approves of his philosophy, and respects his combat skills.
 
 
Aertho
19:03 / 30.04.06
Interesting recruitment, Mario. Diplomatic envoy. Still, it doesn't "feel" like the JLA, and I don't really know how best to describe why. I suppose it has something to do with the already existing franchises, and the relationship overlaps. Something about representing all the colors of the costumes, and still being a team of heavy hitters.

Here's best of what I came up with.


Still kind of lumped together, but I tried to put Princess Diana in the middle of a lot of different personalities. Barda is just this side of Orion in aggressiveness, followed closely by Lady Quark and the King of Atlantis. Then you've got the leader with the drive and direction to unite the loud players with the softer ones. Namely, the pro superheros Wally West, Zatanna, and (inspired choice, Mario!)Connor Hawke.

On second thought, I was only trying to be cool and obscure with Lady Quark. Instead, put in Shayera Thal Hawkwoman, and you'll have the alien hero prereq nailed.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
19:22 / 30.04.06
Okay, I finally put mine together. It’s based around having 7 principle members, with other members available to rotate in whenever they are needed. First up:

Martian Manhunter
The core of the team, the only member to be in all the versions of it, and debatably as powerful as Superman. As Batman put it, he understands group dynamics better than anyone. Between that and his raw power, he’s probably more useful to the team than even Superman. Speaking of which:

Superman
As much as I’d love to put Powergirl in here instead of Supes, the fact is no one has the name recognition that Superman has, in our universe or the DC universe. If I can only have one Kryptonian, it’s going to be Superman.

Batman
Batman goes without saying. He’s the brains of the operation, and he keeps the League honest. He’s the only “normal” human in the core team, which is completely necessary. He’s what keeps the gods from losing perspective. That, and no one’s cooler than Batman.

Wonder Woman
Filling out our final spot on the big four, Wonder Woman is the purest “warrior” of the team-having been trained since birth- but also the League’s face to the planet. She’s the one talking to the world leaders and media.

Jade
I want Jade for my Green Lantern for a couple of reasons. Due to the nature of her conception, she, more than anyone, fully understands how to use her power. It comes naturally to her. She inherited the power over the Green Flame by birth, and then also through an Oan power ring.

Flash III
What can I say about Wally that hasn’t already been said? He’s been a superhero since he was a kid. He knows how to use his powers, and cosmic level crazyness comes naturally to him. Oh, and he’s really, really fast. Faster than Superman. That has to count for something.
And finally,

Zatanna
The team needs a magical badass, and no one is more qualified than Zee. She knows absolutely everyone in the magical community, plus she’s been in the League before. And she’s cute. So she’s in.

Now, the following 10 members are the back-up rotating team members. The first seven serve two purposes. First off, if one team member is out, they’re called in to replace them, as they have similar(ish) powers to certain members. And second, if simply more man power is needed, they get the phone call. The last three are called in on an “as needed” basis, to deal with specific emergencies.

Mary Marvel
Mary Marvel may seem like an odd replacement for J’onn, and perhaps she is. But if we’re going with FKATJL continuity, Captain Marvel may not want to rejoin. Mary’s a power house, and her wide-eyed optimism would certainly be a change from some of the more serious attitudes of other League members.

Powergirl
To balance out against Mary’s ever-positiveness, we bring in Power Girl as Superman’s replacement. Everyone loves Power Girl, she’s super powerful and full of “get the fuck out of my way” attitude. Did I mention that everyone loves Power Girl?

Nightwing
Obvious? Hell yes. But he still makes the most sense as Batman’s understudy. Also, I imagine that whenever Batman needs a second pair of eyes to look at something or help him on a case, Nightwing is the first to get the call. When it comes to former sidekicks, probably only Flash (III) is as well respected as Nightwing.

Aquaman
Aquaman and Wonder Woman both are superpowered politicians. If Wonder Woman was unable to speak on the League’s behalf in front of the UN, I think the next logical choice is Aquaman. Plus, he has lots of experience within the League, which is always a good thing.

Steel
Okay, sure, Steel’s not quite as versatile as another Green Lantern would be, but lets assume the space cops are busy saving existence from whatever it is this month. Steel is still creative and intelligent, and the League trusts him implicitly. Plus he can make anything and has a giant hammer. So he’s in.

Flash II (deceased?)
Oh, I know it’s ridiculous, but it’s my list, damnit, so I say it goes. Let’s say Wally is about to get trapped in the Speed Force (again). Well, just as he’s being pulled in, he cries out for help. And low and behold, who should appear? But the one person who was always there to help him before, Barry! Of course, Barry is the Speed Force now, so he’s crazy powerful. And can you name one speedster more qualified to (re)join the League than Barry Allen? No. So there.

Dr. Fate
While Dr. Fate is just as qualified as Zatanna to be a member (and he’s probably more powerful, too), he’s the busy type, and doesn’t have time for a full blown membership. But hey, in an emergency situation, that’s who they’re going to call.
As for the emergency call in members, well,

The Atom II
Long time League member with a specific power? Check. Doesn’t want a full-time membership? Check. Extraordinarily useful in certain situations? Absolutely. He’s perfect.

Metron
A long shot, true. But one Boom tube phone call, and he’s there. Why would you need Metron? For crazy time travel problems, of course! Plus, he’s one of my favorite characters. So in my fantasy League, I get to use him.
And finally,

Aztek
He’s dead, true, and I’ll have to fix that somehow. But he’s the ultimate man. He can adapt to virtually any situation. I would definitely want him on my back up League.

So there’s my tam. Huzzah!
 
 
LDones
22:04 / 30.04.06
Micro-heroes are like action figures for the heart.


I dig seeing line-ups like Mario's and Grady's, which are largely/entirely devoid of the Big-7. It's fun to think of who'd show up if the cats were away.
 
 
Aertho
22:25 / 30.04.06
I want to see King Jack's JLA.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
23:41 / 30.04.06
I want him to draw it.
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:46 / 01.05.06
This is great fun. Alot's happened since my last post.

Touching on a Wonder Woman lead JLA team this is what I've come up with.

Seven members; while wonderwoman would naturally move towards women she'd make overtures towards the U.S. Military with having Capt. Atom on board. Afterwards she'd eventually seek out a diverse collection of former members.

Not much in the way of stealth (outside of Fire being a former spy) but that's not high on her list of priorities anyway. She'd be more interested in a team who's diverse pool of experience would enable them to meet just about any situation with general public approval.


  
 
Aertho
20:51 / 01.05.06
Ooh that's a lot of firepower.
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:36 / 01.05.06
As an Amazon I figured Diana would make sure plenty of "power" was available (outside the capes and heat vision). Dr. Light might at this point become this team's Green Lanturn; light manipulation plus inexperience. She would also be the teams science-brain and would probably use her expertise there to compensate for what she sees as shortcomings when the cape is on.

Black Lightning has generally not been interested in the JLA and what it represents. He'd be convinced that Diana would wnat this team to reflect the priorities HE believes in. She'd want to make this team accessable in ways she believes He would be best qualified to decide.

This would be Fire's big break. After all the heartache she's been through and the failure of the super buddies she would jump at the chance to be seen next to Wonder Woman. Her ties to the brazilian government could prove helpful, particularly in offsetting any impressions Captain Atom would leave.

Of course Capt Atom would see it as duty and Honor. It would be his chance to play an icon role and be legitimized by association with Wonder Woman.

Much has already been said by Startfire and it's all still true. A chance for glorious battles. A chance to test her self along side Wonder Woman. She was once a bit of a super model as well so between Diana, Fire and herself this team could get alot of fun press.

Then there's Zaureal. He'd be the most like Jonn on this team. Offering insight and empathy to other members helping them to develop the chemestry an affective team would need. He could also offer absolution to Capt. Atom and Dr. Light who's had reasons to feel guilty. Comfort to Starfire with thoughts on the afterlife and their mutual status as "other." He would also be a great friend to Diana and her own spiritual journey in the absence of her own gods.

His would be the base they used while Wonder Woman would supply a modified Invisible Jet for those flights they don't want to take under their own power. In reserves they'd keep these 3 on speed-dial.

  
 
Spyder Todd 2008
01:39 / 02.05.06
I wanted to try to put together a team that was completely different from my last try (or any other version of the League), but could still pass as the Justice League (and not, say, the Outsiders). Here’s my first try.


Mr. Terrific as the team’s strategic mastermind and tactician. I think using him like he was used in Season 5 of JLU, he’d be very useful to the team.
Captain Marvel as the teams magical powerhouse and all purpose good guy. Plus! The word “Shazam!” is awesome.
The Question as the League’s necessary dissenting voice, tough-as-nails crazy vigilante. And he’s crazy smart. And badass.
Why the Olympian? Well, he’s a super strong brawler that no one seems to care about. The less people care about a character,, the more editorial will let you do character development wise. And since he’s saved Wonder Woman and Superman’s asses before, I figure he’ll prove useful.
Black Canary is an excellent combatant, well versed in how to use her abilities, and a long standing member of the super human community.
I really want to get the Red Tornado back in the League. What the hell is he doing these days, anyway? He’s extremely powerful, a long standing tam member, and a robot. Cool
And finally Hawkgirl. Another long-placed League member, Hawkgirl is sort of a long range combatant. She’s also the only alien on the team, which will be a very different dynamic from past versions of the team. With Katar dead (he is dead, right?), I think she’ll need to have a sense of community to keep her from going violently crazy.

Okay, I did this in 15 minutes, so I’m quite open to feedback. Comments and/or critism?
 
 
Aertho
02:56 / 02.05.06
I'm interested in your premise and challenge. I too have been playing with a strange "sense" of what makes a team of players a "JLA", and not, say, Outsiders, or grown-up Titans, or even JSA for that matter.

It's a strange thing to sit down and build one, much less describe what you're thinking when you do it... There is something to be said about mixing genres, skills, motifs, even costume colors for a batch of seven.

I asked Mario to find something for me a while ago that helps me understand what the JLA is...

*

Missing four of the big seven, but that is undeniably the League. Is it merely the presence of Superman that makes it so? A "Batman" League is the Giffen era, or could be seen as Outsiders. All of this is what prompted me to question the possibility of a Wonder Woman League. I'm forced to wonder that a League is only the "Justice League" if Superman is on the team in some capacity.

The above picture also makes it clear who the second tier heroes of the DCU are. Green Arrow, Black Canary, Atom, Zatanna, the Hawkpeople, but Red Tornado and Firestorm? Elongated Man?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
02:56 / 02.05.06
My fantasy Justice League? I suppose I should do one. I worry it would end up being too much like how I thin kof C.S.I., or as I like to call it: "By Day: Ford Modelling Agency. By Night: Hot Crime Fighters Fighting Crime...with Science!" But there's always a sex-vibe with my stuff.

Zatanna Zatara, especially if either Misty or Klarion gets to be her protege in the requisite Teen Titans. Probably our boy Klarion. Zee has the experience, the legacy, and the power to be A-list; she is descended from the greatest performance, two-fisted magician of the Golden Age and a offshoot species of mystics. I'd play all her flaws and problems as personality and lifestyle-based, rather than shoehorning in ridiculous limitations like making her powers elemental. She could also function as Wonder Woman's ironical thematic replacement, as the legitimate weakness for both is bondage-related; wrist-binding for Di and gagging for Zee. Has anyone ever noticed that? Superman gets an allergy, Green Lantern gets a limitation, and the two best women get stuck with the dominance games. But I'd keep it in, because Zatanna is all about overcoming the male-domination of the performance industry, the hero business, and emphasizes the escapology aspect of her gig. I'd also have her touring all the time with her bevy and scantily-clad male "magician's assistants." Zee is our JLA's public face, image consultant, and magical back-up.

Captain Atom because silver chrome is due a comeback. He's got the juice, the glutes, and the probable image recognition in the DCU, as well as military connections to cement my Justice League as a political power after a fashion. I'd probably dump the weird Wildstorm-induced computer-manipulation powers simply because he will never have the cool factor of Oracle, and it doesn't really make any sense. Plus, as a bonus, the Injustice Gang could therefore include Doctor Spectro, probably last seen fucking up in the Superman "New Years" comic. Yes, Spectro, because I hate Major Force.

Mister Terrific, because he's perfect for tech support, coordination, and hot leather jacket-ness. He's got the brains to be the leader, and a lot of drive without being outright nutso like Batman. Why the move over from the JSA? A shift to global operations, and as a foil to Zatanna; she's a hyper-media star and he's invisible to electronic detection. He wouldn't be quite as "behind the scenes" as J'onn might have been, but he tends to hit the job with business sense and a hint of innovation that might elude Zee's self-doubt and Captain Atom's stiff-backed lack of imagination. He's constantly inventing and designing to keep up with the more powerful members of the League, but is capable of dreaming up things a bit beyond them.

Hawkwoman, Shayara Hol, not quite Silver Age version but more in line with The Nail's interpretation; the sunshine uniform that straddles military uniform and superhero costume. Shayara's tough as nails, a cop, she has a strong sense of procedure and keeps the League in check, always reminding them of "the law" and the slippery territory that is "justice." She doesn't have a lot of time for the political games of Captain Atom and doesn't feel the need for the P.R. that Zatanna does. She reminds me a lot of Alix Harrower, actually, and I'd play her like that with less a sex-pot vibe.

Obsidian would play the Green Lantern role. He has the proper legacy angle for it, and is the process of both redemption and self-acceptance; Obsidian is a-okay in his own eyes, finally. He'd give us an in to the Manhunter series and help ground the League in the world that they're responsible for; he's also been a member before, shortly after Zero Hour, and nothing good came of that version so he'd like to have another crack at it. It's also part of his plan for getting back into Atom-Smasher's good graces.

Wally West gets to be the elder statesman for once as the Flash for my ideal League. He knows the deal, knows how to function, and looks really hot in red spandex. He's another foil, in a way, to Zatanna, but more as a male counterpart. He enjoys his powers and likes to flirt despite his reasonably solid relationship with Linda, who would serve as a decent media connection in the absence of Lois Lane. He's who Johnny Storm would be if he could finally grow up; athletic, dependable, a hell of a lot of fun to hang around with, and in charge of his powers. He'd be slower than he's gotten of late, mostly because he tries to conserve speed energy for the occasional dip into the Force for communion purposes.

The Shining Knight, Dame Ystine and her flying mount Vanguard. Finally allowed to be both a woman and a knight at the same time. New to the world but not to fighting, she is the link to the Round Table, to Earth-that-was (to steal a Whedonism), and will prove to be nothing if not an Optimal Human. The Knight is about honour and holds Excalibur when rushing into battle - she is about the metal, the heat, the substance of conflict and peace as well. She is no primitive; Ystin spurs her teammates to function as one, to show the kind of ferocious will and careful tactic that built Camelot.
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:44 / 02.05.06
Interesting. the appearance of Mr. Terrific has me curious about the difference between the JSA and the JLA these days. Mr.T seems to tightly connected with the JSA that I'm curious what impact a move to the JLA would create.

The inclusion of Shining Knight is also very interesting. Would the rest of the team have to intervine when Ystin is about to decapitate to a foe? The Black Knight and the Swordsman also seem to have come into a similar difficulty over in the Avengers. Why would a swrod weilding hero only use "the flat of the blade" aside from the difficulty in doing to why not just use a batton?

Trick arrows seem to get around this delima but it's something that would be interesting to examine.

As far as what makes a JLA. That's interesting to me especially in the context of the JSA. Outsiders seem to be somewhere between bush-league heros and Black ops. Titans seem to be the junior league/teamwork internship. JLA is obviously Major league but where does that place JSA?

Are they the off season teams? At the onset of the JSA series it was played as them being the keepers of tradition and bridging the gap between the golden age generation and the future... But can that still hold, I wonder.

The Wonder Woman League (along with Justice League Atlantis, or the Just Ladies Alliance) seem to be exploring some of this. Major Power, iconic status as the professional superhero, seem to be the recurring theme. Still, there always seems to need to be a reason why Batman and Superman aren't around.

I was personally playing with this in the set-up to my Justice League Anonymous back on page 1. Aside from their name how does this team serve "JUSTICE?"

I also love the recurring themes character treatment.

Conner Hawk's power of ZEN

Black Canary's social butterfly (I keep wanting to apply the canary in a coal mine theme to her somehow. Her connections creat a sort of word-of-mouth early warning system?)

Zatanna's general greatness.

an so on.

Makes me also wonder what a GREEN LANTURN helmed JLA would look like. Hal Jordan is back and is still wondering why everyone's still keeping him at arm's length. So what would his team look like?
 
 
Aertho
16:57 / 02.05.06
Oh EASY.

  
  

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