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Stop the Madness!

 
  

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dmj2012
02:59 / 21.04.06
Good guys or bad guys not killing off their enemies when they have a chance - this one happens in comics, TV, movies, etc. Here are the typical excuses: Good guys - "but if we kill Magneto then we're no better than him." Bad guys - "If I kill him now he will become a matyr and be even more dangerous."

The audience's reaction - "You're both full of crap."
 
 
This Sunday
03:15 / 21.04.06
Perhaps we should just stop having comics. That picture and word thing is overdone!

Y'all are no fun. "It's a strange world..." has shown up in 'Planetary' maybe three times, total, and it's the series' slogan.

Diaries as cliche and unusable in some sense implies that first person narration should be killed, too, which is kinda silly. No first person narrative, no internal monologue... why don't we just cut out the last two centuries of writing-development, avoid realistic dialogue of any sort, and never have more than a literal meaning to anything said, only spoken by characters who absolutely know themselves and the whole situation, so never are blind to a thing.

No silent panels? No hero-looks-damn-cool shots? No big-reveal last page splash? Gee, there's Xorneto's big 'Chuck, you're fucked' page gone. There's the better bits of the Waid/Garney 'Captain America' gone. There's everything from 'Sin City' to 'Red' to shitloads of manga gone. Without gaining anything.



No bars? The hell? Many people spend an inordinate amount of time in bars, clubs, or other establishments where one can be subjected to alcohol, some manner of food, and bad pick up lines. That's just life.

No teleporting is a big step away from tech that's already established for Marvel, DC, the Wildstorm Universe, et cetera. To place a ban on it would be the same as placing a ban on cars. It might have its benefits, but when you need to get somewhere quick...

... and, it prevents the weird travel glitches where the hero mysteriously makes it miles and miles in seconds and all.

Now, unreadable fonts, "It tickles" and similar cliche lines, the Earth-saves-whole-universe deal, and the Claremontian explain-yerself dialogue... those can all go away. They're actually cutting into things, actual detriments to communication and flow. Terms like 'unreadable' and 'uncomfortable' and 'clumsily' are the things I can agree with, but then, that's just saying 'try to be clear and not sound stupid,' which should be the point, anyway.

A bar, is just a setting. Like a church, a zoo, or the skull of a giant monkey, it's just a setting. Anything can be done with it, and some of it might be interesting.

The only real rule I think ought to be put into place is: Don't do it unless it's going to be interesting or relevant. Unless you have something to say and a reason to say it, it's probably best for us all, if the pen goes down, the words don't come, and the issue never hits the stands.

But then we couldn't have quite so many X-spin-offs and what would the world be like without those?

And, for the hell of it: "Blue %$&@*#ing Blazes!" sayeth Ubers the Argonian to the Large Green Cheddar! in a curvy font, with big trademarked logos instead of just names. Before The Dark God kills them. In a dark future. With choppy narration. In a diary. Full of unending sexual tension.
 
 
matthew.
03:32 / 21.04.06
Woah. Buzzkill.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:56 / 21.04.06
Oh I don't know, I'm going to be buying the Lee, the Perez and the hologram collectors' cover of Ubers the Argonian #1.

You know what I can't wait for?

WHEN THE HERO'S "MANTLE" IS TAKEN BY A SEXY WOMAN!

See the new Nightwing, also Batgirl, Spiderwoman, Supergirl.

Isn't your fave hero's costume cool? OMIGOSH what would it look like if you like shrunk it? And made a GIRL wear it? So it was... real TIGHT?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:17 / 21.04.06
DCU BIG THREE CALLING EACH OTHER BY THEIR FIRST NAMES
Of course, they don't say "could do with some help here, CLARK" when they're in the middle of a big JLA fight. They wait until they're all on their own in the Batcave or on some secluded rooftop, ignoring the fact that there must be a score of villains with the ability to hear what someone's saying in the Batcave or on a rooftop just as clearly as they could hear you talking on the street next to them.

Anyway, when they have their meaningful debates or conciliatory make-up meetings, they start doing that thing that's annoying if someone uses it on you in real life - stressing your name for extra intensity.

[Batman is sulkily gazing out over the city after Superman forced him into some boyscout compromise]

Superman: They're just PEOPLE. We have to HELP them.

[Batman doesn't turn]

Superman [holds out hand pleadingly] BRUCE...

[Batman turns, the ICY GLARE melting!]

OR:

[Batman is having a shouting-match with Wonder Woman]

Batman: We can't just LEAVE it. That's not the RIGHT way -

Wonder Woman: That's not YOUR way, BRUCE.

OR, for super intensity, Batman will bring out the Kryptonian in his old friend.

[Superman is doubting his ability to protect humankind etc etc, perhaps he's just failed to prevent world poverty.]

Superman: All I could do... I TRIED!

Batman [lays a hand on the shoulder of steel]: That's what you're HERE for... KAL. [Superman turns, his face marked with tears, as Batman continues] That's what you're GOOD for! The world needs a [trademarked logo here] SUPERMAN!

TITLE AT THE END OF THE STORY
Not quite a cliche yet, perhaps, but threatening to become cheesy as it loses novelty. Let's revisit that last scene and imagine it on the final page of the monthly comic.

Batman [lays a hand on the shoulder of steel]: That's what you're HERE for... KAL. [Superman turns, his face marked with tears, as Batman continues] That's what you're GOOD for! The world needs a [trademarked logo here] SUPERMAN!

Now, at the bottom of the final panel, the writer brings in the dramatic title at last (ah, you'd forgotten there was no title at the start of the comic, but now you see how it ties in with the last scene):

CHAPTER 4: AWAKENINGS
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:28 / 21.04.06
Diaries as cliche and unusable in some sense implies that first person narration should be killed

No it doesn't.

Gosh. That was simple. I shall become... THE GAINSAYER!
 
 
Haus of Mystery
08:31 / 21.04.06
Fucking hell Wonderstarr. Take a breath.
 
 
Sniv
08:42 / 21.04.06
You just know Miss W was up all last night, scrabbling through her back issues, desperately searching for the clichés. Tired this morning?

I think you should write a story with all of them in, a cliché-clusterfuck if you will. You may even get paid money for it if you shop it about!
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:59 / 21.04.06
They just keep... POURING OUT I'm afraid. I haven't even looked at a comic since STARTING this thread.

Of course, I still love the kind of comics I'm discussing here. They are glorious.
 
 
Sniv
09:18 / 21.04.06
Strong truth. Hey, if we can't mock our comics and childhoods, who can?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:03 / 21.04.06
The rest of the world.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
10:27 / 21.04.06
Hurrah! A bitterness thread!

All these types of threads ever do is get me banned from places.

While I verily chuckled as this thread started off, in the back of my mind I knew it wouldn't take long to go all TWoP on us, veering from widespread cliches to "Man, don't you hate Page 16 of this comic that everyone's read? IT FUCKING SUCKS."

(Bitterness Thread Cliches:
TYPING IN ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS.
"Can't you just IMAGINE ME STANDING UP AND POUNDING MY FISTS EVEN THOUGH MESSAGE BOARDS ARE ONLY MADE UP OF TYPED WORDS AND NO OTHER SENSE CUES?")

Enjoy the thread!

Sincerely Yours,
BenjaminBirdie
Warn Meter: 40%
 
 
The Falcon
10:41 / 21.04.06
TWoP? The World of...???
 
 
The Falcon
10:42 / 21.04.06
Pissants?
 
 
Mario
12:11 / 21.04.06
Television Without Pity, a review site.
 
 
Good Stuff
12:12 / 21.04.06
Pettiness
 
 
Good Stuff
12:13 / 21.04.06
ah
 
 
Grady Hendrix
12:53 / 21.04.06
They're cliches because they're OVER-used. Nothing wrong with a bar, but you'd think the world was full of empty, quiet, trendily down-at-the-heels bars where everyone keeps to themselves to read comic books. Nothing wrong with that, but nothing wrong with pointing out it's an over-used cliche either. But not to worry, my buzz is too strong to be killed by mere mortals.

Looking through this week's comics, just in passing, here's the score:

NEW AVENGERS - there's a quip, right after Carol Danvers flies through the big naked electricity man: "Let's see what I get if I tussle with him again!" Then he grabs her and she says, "Well, you started it." Captain America does a logo name: "Bob. The SENTRY (patent pending, not for use by pregnant ladies and midgets, may cause constipation, nausea and drowsiness)." There's some kiddie kussing "It was like getting the $%*#& kicked out of you by fifty at once."

IRON MAN - Nano technology out the ears. And six - six! - inscrutable silent panels.

X-MEN - I can't even count what was in here, although there was a new one - HERO'S EXPLAINING THEIR POWERS WHILE USING THEM - which someone may have touched on before. There's a lot of that, and a last panel reveal.
 
 
Spaniel
13:22 / 21.04.06
It seems to me that many of the so called cliches listed in this thread would be better described as themes or conventions or narrative devices or recurrent motifs, hence their ubiquity. Others - certain recurrent narratives spring to mind here - aren't inherently bad but are frequently badly handled, or tiresome only because of their overuse (making them cliches, sure, but not necessarily bad ideas).
 
 
Spaniel
13:26 / 21.04.06
I also think that there's a certain level of rather dull unexamined subjectivity going on here. One man's 6 inscrutable panels is another's nuanced cinematic moment.
 
 
Sniv
13:44 / 21.04.06
HEROES EXPLAINING THEIR POWERS WHILE USING THEM - fuck yes. What's that, Superboy? You've got (had) tactile telekinisis? And what does that do? Really? Oh, you don't bloody say...

I heart this thread.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
14:02 / 21.04.06
"One man's 6 inscrutable panels is another's nuanced cinematic moment."

I am NOT a man. I am a MONKEY!
(and there's a million of us. And we all have typewriters.)
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
14:11 / 21.04.06
%90 of the superhero community living in the United States
And if you live in the Marvel Universe, in the same neighborhood or something.
 
 
doctorbeck
15:26 / 21.04.06
my fav has got to be everyone in the living room of the avengers mansion, or wherever, just sitting around in full spandex, sheilds slung on backs, mystic hammers or bow and arrows at their sides, using code names for no good reason, is that how they spend all their day? just sitting around waiting for the wrecking crew to attack, maybe watching some tv, reading the papers? with huge capes on? are the insane?

also half assed tacking on of poorly communicated mystical concepts to give a patchily written series depth (NXM / pheonix and the kabbalah anyone?)
 
 
The Falcon
16:09 / 21.04.06
Fuck, some people wear uniforms when they're at work, you know. My favourite variation on that theme is allowing supervillains to wear their cozzies in jail/Arkham/etc. I was somewhat disappointed that the Tarantula didn't get the opportunity recently in Daredevil to do so.
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
16:22 / 21.04.06
Wasn't Tarantula dead?
Stupid question, OF COURSE HE WAS.
 
 
The Falcon
16:32 / 21.04.06
Are you unwell, Captain Shouty?

Obviously, contradicting the meisterwerk that was Venom: Sinner Takes All #4 is a grotesque oversight, but one can but hope there'll be a miniseries (that explains all!) spun out of the whole mess.
 
 
The Falcon
17:03 / 21.04.06
Actually, checking the comic in question, the guy's Black Tarantula who wasn't even dead in the first place. So.
 
 
Jack Fear
17:40 / 21.04.06
The spelling "comix" and the formation "I heart".

Oh, I'm sorry, that's "message-board clichés that should just die."
 
 
Sniv
18:12 / 21.04.06
Jack Fear, you appear to have misplaced your joycore! I'd get that seen to if I were you.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
19:15 / 21.04.06
Heroes and Villains who aren't American having powers and names based on their country of origin. Y'know, because somebody from Mexico could never be Super/Bat/Spiderman, he'd be Senor Tacoshooter.
 
 
Spaniel
20:08 / 21.04.06
This thread is anything but joycore.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:51 / 22.04.06
You know, by using my mystical powers of reading the first bloody page of this thread, there wasn't actually a complaint about bars in comics, but charatcers in bars who tell you their life storys unprompted.

The bringing-up of powers in each comic is apparently a thing to help new readers cotton on as to what's happening in the big slapping. I'm not sure whether it's still required but it apparently was back in Chris Claremont's day, hence the whole overblown 'nigh-invulnerable adamantium skeleton' 'organic steel' 'teleporting fuzzy-elf' stuff.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
12:59 / 22.04.06
WEAK-ASS MIND CONTROL - in the 1940's tele-vision was an enormous wooden box with a screen on the front the size of a pack of cigarettes (which, oddly enough, were half the size back then that they are today) and to change the channels took a draft horse, three mules, a weather vane and fifty-five feet of strong country rope. Today there are TVs that are so teeny that you can carry them around with you, and there are enormous flat-panel TVs that hang on your wall and look sharper than real life. In 60 years, TV has changed. But what about mind control? Because mind control sucks. Green Lantern gets mind controlled. He starts hitting his friends with wacky green hammers. They say, "Green Lantern...Hal...if there's anything left in there of the man I knew, don't hit me with your wacky green hammers." Hal's face trembles and shakes and turns red. Then..."What am I DOING?!?" he cries and flies away to kick the butt of the person who mind controlled him.

This is the state of the art in mind control and it's been like this since the beginning. You're mind controlled until you really, really decide you don't want to be mind controlled anymore. Then you break it. Come on, super villains. Step up. Doesn't one of you think it might be worthwhile to go off into a secret lab for, like, a year and come up with an unbeatable version of mind control? Or, at the very least, a version of mind control that can only be broken by drinking a shake made of green bananas and sassafras rather than hard thought?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:22 / 22.04.06
COMICS FANS UNABLE TO READ COMICS
"I need everything spelled out for me as if I was a stunted child", says 'Grady Hendrix' of message-board Barbelith.
 
  

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