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Teh Matrix Warrior.

  
  

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Evil Scientist
10:30 / 16.03.06
Springing fully-formed from the forehead of a puddle of threadrot over in the Temple where a couple of links provided me with a rather shocking revelation about a...well...school of philosophical thought (to be kind to it) had been developed by a chap called Jack Horsley based around the Matrix films.

Has to be a joke right? But apparantly not.

Matrix Warrior

and...

Matrix Sorcerer

A quick explanation of the "thought" behind it is adaquately provided by the, always direct, Flyboy.

From the Temple thread.

While Illmatic cradles his head in his hands and sobs gently, let me explain: the book Matrix Warrior by Jake Horsley is agreed by several people on this board to be one of the most (depending on your point of view) laughable and/or pernicious texts published in the last five years. It is an unholy mix of self-help book, gnostic burblings and third-rate pop culture critique, of which the best that can be said is that it gets to the heart of what the philosophy of the film The Matrix is, and why it appeals to so many terrible, terrible people: i.e., YOU (and maybe your heroes and mates) are special, YOU are enlightened and have teh secret knowledge, other people are sleeping and do not want to wake up, given that they are unwilling to wake up it is essentially okay for you to shoot them. Sadly rather than critiquing these ideas, the author endorses them, coining the term "humatons" to describe the unenlightened (because they're not real people, see?).
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:37 / 16.03.06
There's a thead in the Magic about this as well. I'm torn, because on the one hand I think people should have free reign to rip the piss as much as possible. On the other hand, I genuinely believe the mindset Horsley represents and promotes is actively harmful, counter-revolutionary in the most negative sense, and insidious, and that we should take it seriously as a threat and discuss ways to disabuse people of these notions. Mind you, he's so woefully inarticulate that one might optimistically hope that only the very stupid and credulous would ever be taken in by his specious fuckwittery.

Anyway, on to specifics, as posted elsewhere...

A woman, especially a magikal one (by which I mean one whose link to Spirit is clear), cannot ever take shelter under the illusion of meaning or purpose as a man can. This is both why and because women are not “rational” beings. They are physical, and the payback for this, at times oppressive, capacity to be “down-to-earth,” to be real, is that, as already stated, the body does not need a reason to live, only an opportunity.
 
 
illmatic
10:49 / 16.03.06
I'll mod to delete the one in maigck. Keep it here, and we can always link to it if any budding matrix warriors turn up in The Temple. No reaon why we cant' do serious stuff here, alongside the pissripping.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:53 / 16.03.06
A rather disturbing quote from Matrix Sorcerer:

A direct result of this is that men have become mincing sissies, ineffective and impotent, and females (in consequence) are sexually unsatisfied harpies from Hell. The solution, then, is for Man to regain his lusty, Pan-like nature as a dominant sexual being, and for Woman to inherit her power as a sexually voracious receptacle of the god-current, or Phallus.

Yeesh! This stuff reads in parts like a Guide to Serial Killing.
 
 
Quantum
10:58 / 16.03.06
Matrix Warrior was not intended as a gag. (I hear you laugh all the louder.) Its hucksterism was in itself—a hoax!

Bleurgh. Kill him and call it de-rezzing. I hate people who loved the Matrix but have never heard of Cyberpunk- we were Netrunning back in 1990 in our front rooms without CGI, Carrie-Ann Moss and with only minimal leather.

Doesn't this tripe kind of discredit itself without our help? Could we broaden the remit to include other atrocious nonsense like 'The Psychic Vampire Codex' or anything by Poppy Z. Brite?
 
 
Quantum
11:00 / 16.03.06
Check Out His OverCapitalising People-

"That is the Totality, first of Earth, then, via birth through the Portal of the Sun, that of the Universe. And that is merely the onset of Lucidity. Where we go from there, only God can say. But soon, We will."
 
 
Dead Megatron
11:05 / 16.03.06
Here the origin of it all:


It began with Zoemancer saying:

It makes me wonder if the big media company and "the man" are actually working together here. I mean why would "the man" allow for a movie like this to even make it to the screens? It seems counter intutitive. Confusing to say the least.

To which I answered:

That's how "the man" operates, dude (one of many tatics, at least). I always say, if you're not confused, you're misinformed

Than Mordant (Mr) Carnival asked:

Wow! Have you read Matrix Warrior too?!

My answer was:

Well, no. But, to be honest, I stole that catch phrase from a magazine ad from about 15 years ago.

Is that Matrix Warrior a comic book? Or a MMORPG? 'Cause it sound like it.

Illmatic was nice (and humourous) enough to answer:

It's my bible. Make it yours.

I reacted, also humourously, by saying:

must... obey... command...can't... resist... hipnotic... sugestion

If there's an online version, I'll look it up.

(it may take a while though, since I'm currently reading the gospels, the Tao Te King, and the I Ching. And Terry Pratchet)

Messy the Magician (formely Sam Tempest - amuch cooler name):

Just started reading the online chapter.

Gawking. From a few pages, it looks excellent. At least, I dig it.

'Let's stop talking about the weather', it advise, quite funnily.
trouser the trouserian commented as following:

It's my bible. Make it yours.

You forgot the irony tags again didn't you Illmatic?

By that time I realised people didn't notice I was also being ironic (I thought the reference to T. Pratchet was a dead give away)

Flyboy ws nice enough to step in and clarify:

While Illmatic cradles his head in his hands and sobs gently, let me explain: the book Matrix Warrior by Jake Horsley is agreed by several people on this board to be one of the most (depending on your point of view) laughable and/or pernicious texts published in the last five years. It is an unholy mix of self-help book, gnostic burblings and third-rate pop culture critique, of which the best that can be said is that it gets to the heart of what the philosophy of the film The Matrix is, and why it appeals to so many terrible, terrible people: i.e., YOU (and maybe your heroes and mates) are special, YOU are enlightened and have teh secret knowledge, other people are sleeping and do not want to wake up, given that they are unwilling to wake up it is essentially okay for you to shoot them. Sadly rather than critiquing these ideas, the author endorses them, coining the term "humatons" to describe the unenlightened (because they're not real people, see?).

Evil Scientist also participated:

Gawking. From a few pages, it looks excellent. At least, I dig it

Weird, because I just read it and thought it was some of the trashiest cod-philosophy I've ever read.

This can't be a serious work can it? It has to be an attempt at satirising the films?

It's just....bleurgh.

And M. Carnival:

No. I'm sorry, but the guy is totally serious.

trouser:

Horsley follows through with Matrix Sorcerer

How long before he comes up with the "V for Vendetta Warrior Guide to, er, blowing things up"?

Flyboy:

It’s exactly a year since I wrote Matrix Warrior, and a lot has changed since then. For one thing, I have made contact with the “real world"... What concerns me more, however, is that particular portion of readers who enjoyed the book without feeling any need to take it seriously...

This promises to be a stimulating read. Thanks, trouser.

Quantum:

I must now risk the wrath of such readers by bearing some disturbing news. Matrix Warrior was not intended as a gag. (I hear you laugh all the louder.) Its hucksterism was in itself—a hoax!

M'sieur Horsley, with this guff you are really spoiling us...

And, finally, back to Illmatic:

If we want to rip the piss of of Matrix Warrior Part 2 (and I feel we might have to), shall we do in an alternative thread? I'll start one in a bit. We can always move it to Convo.

Aaaaannnd, here we are.
 
 
Dead Megatron
11:12 / 16.03.06
That book has been published in Brazil by the same publishing company that made me translate a book which stated that "vampires are stronger than werewolves" as if it was a hard scientific fact. 99% of what they publish is this kind of new age/ sucker fooling shit. (They have a wonderful series called ...and the philosophy. Like "Harry Potter and the philosophy", "The Simpsons and the philosophy", "Super-heroes and the philosophy"). That alone is a statement for this book crapiness. I find it all very funny, but many take it seriously, believe it if you can.

I think I'll get the book just to have a laugh. When I finish my Terry Pratchet, of course
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:26 / 16.03.06
I was just going to start a thread on sexism in magic but I think I might just go and get drunk instead.
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:43 / 16.03.06
Having read some of the stuff this guy comes up with, that's probably a good idea for us all.

My eyes need to be scoured with the tequila of peace.
 
 
Sam T.
11:45 / 16.03.06
From the one and only chapter I did read:

"Humatons do not think for themselves. Their so-called 'minds' are actually intricate recordings fixed on a loop of endless repetition."

Somehow, when you're in the kind of job I'm in, being asked the same five questions 200 times a day, this kind of statement doesn't strike you as overly outrageous.

Note that this cannot be construed as a kind of apology.

What I got from that sample chapter was that most people don't think much out of their small bubble. Excerpt:

"For this reason matrix warriors are the soul of subtlety and courtesy when it comes to waking up their fellow humatons. They won't talk to them about the weather or modes of transport, and they have no personal history as such to share (at least not the mundane kind humatons are seeking); but they are compelled to guide the conversation as naturally as possible into more creative and unmapped areas. These areas are outside the field of concern which the matrix provides for humatons; they are like a wilderness that humatons rarely, if ever, venture into. By sustaining eye contact, asking the right questions (searching but not impertinent, personal without being presumptuous), and by arousing curiosity with their innate confidence and clarity, matrix warriors can bring most humatons briefly out of the repeating loop of their thoughts; before they know it, they will be experiencing the illicit thrill of original (or at least fresh and new) thoughts."

Can't say I don't try this kind of thing sometimes. Mostly, it doesn't work. I must lack the innate confidence and clarity, probably. Or maybe my thought aren't thrilling enough. Or it is the subtlety thing.

Oh well. Still digging...

(I thought that Tempest name was way over the top. I'll put it back on then, might boost my confidence)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:48 / 16.03.06
But, Messy... have you considered that, on the balance of probabilities, you are a humaton? Not _everyone_ can be a reincarnation of Cleopatra...
 
 
Dead Megatron
11:52 / 16.03.06
and by arousing curiosity with their innate confidence and clarity, matrix warriors can bring most humatons briefly out of the repeating loop of their thoughts; before they know it, they will be experiencing the illicit thrill of original (or at least fresh and new) thoughts."

Yeah, original thoughts copied from a book copied from a movie copied from manga. Wo-hoo!

And Messy, I'd be careful about taking advice from me. Ask anyone.

I am teh humaton! Watch me transform from a six-shooter to a six-pack of Bud...
 
 
iamus
11:55 / 16.03.06
Whoa!
 
 
trouser the trouserian
12:03 / 16.03.06
Not _everyone_ can be a reincarnation of Cleopatra
Quite true Haus. For I have first dibs on that claim.

According Horsley's website, Matrix Worrier has received high praise from Kenneth Grant and ... Ramsey Dukes. I don't know which I find weirder. Though Horsley does not say where both luminaries made these plugs.
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:06 / 16.03.06
A humaton has no self or identity to speak of, but rather consists of an arrangement of thoughts, beliefs, and habits (preprogrammed responses), units of information which constantly reshuffle themselves in order to remain stable and create a sense of unity and purpose. A humaton is basically a collective, made up of 'tics', reflexes to the continuous barrage of stimuli provided by the matrix program itself. Humatons do not think for themselves.

Because, of course, the mind of a warrior isn't composed of thoughts, beliefs, and habits is it?

Man, if this can get published it gives me hope for my novel.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:10 / 16.03.06
What kind of praise? "Wow! Soft and absorbent!"?
 
 
Sam T.
12:36 / 16.03.06
But, Messy... have you considered that, on the balance of probabilities, you are a humaton?

Thing is, I'm quite sure I'm one since a long time, and especially those days. What bothers me is that all The Others never give it a thought.

Because, of course, the mind of a warrior isn't composed of thoughts, beliefs, and habits is it?

Missed this. Tells you much about how selective I've become.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:42 / 16.03.06
What about the umpteen gajillion Others who went to see The Matrix? You reckon they never thought about it?
 
 
Dead Megatron
12:45 / 16.03.06
By reading the on-line chapter,I'm noticing the whole thing is a major ripoff from Carlos Castañeda. He didn't even bother to change terms such as the dreaming, stalking tonal, nagual, warrior/sorceror, recapitulation 2nd attention, and on and on and on

Is this guy for real? Gosh.

Humatons of the world, unite! (and form the super-byke Voltron)
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:59 / 16.03.06
Funny that this chap, who was obviously inspired enough by The Matrix to try and form a philosophy around it, sounds as disapointed with the sequels as everyone else. Seems he forgets that the first one was all about the action and effects too.
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:30 / 16.03.06
By reading the on-line chapter,I'm noticing the whole thing is a major ripoff from Carlos Castañeda.

Stealing an idea from a better writer and effectively just taping your name to the top of it? How could that possibly be in line with the philosophy behind The Matrix?

...

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh.
 
 
BlueMeanie
13:51 / 16.03.06
I find the mindset behind this book (that I haven't read, but I've been aware of it for some time) quite disturbing, but also fairly amusing at some level.

Exactly why I feel this way isn't that clear to me, to be honest, but it has something to do with the feelings of superiority within the a mindset that appears, in most instances, to be the consequence of a lack of social abilities. I honestly feel quite sorry for those that maintain their feelings of Ubermensch-like status over the rest of the 'mundanes' who are no longer teenage boys in ill-fitting black clothes.

I was never really impressed with the Matrix as a film, either. I didn't find it that original or interesting. Some seem to have latched onto it in a rather unhealthy way, as if it vindicates their feelings of alienation and elevates them to a special status of being The One.
 
 
Sam T.
14:54 / 16.03.06
What about the umpteen gajillion Others who went to see The Matrix? You reckon they never thought about it?

Actually, this seems to be worst part. When you try to use an example like 'The Matrix', which everybody has seen, to start a conversation on the nature of reality, most people I know will give you the 'But it's only a flick!' answer. If you try to argue along the lines of 'You can take it as a metaphor, on several level'... they often never thought about it in this way. Or if it did hit them, they quickly discarded it and never gave it another try.

Obligatory Churchill quote: Most people stumble over the truth, now and then, but they usually manage to pick themselves up and go on, anyway.

Also, try to point to them that we're ALL humaton in a way, and they won't believe you. They damn think they are conscious all the time, that their consciousness is always the same, even after they've been watching TV for 1 hour...

I'm talking about all the normal, common people out there, the experience I have of them. How many even do any kind of introspection? They are in a constant flurry of thought and angst. Any kind of meta-thinking is, I tell you, very rare.

Or maybe I just happened to pick all the wrong people.
 
 
■
15:09 / 16.03.06
I'm talking about all the normal, common people out there, the experience I have of them. How many even do any kind of introspection?

Err.. all of them? Maybe not the kind you value, but I promise you everyone does.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:11 / 16.03.06
Even the norms, with their normal mainstream music and their normal everyday televisions and their grey mundane food and their bland little lives, in the rain? Even them? The boring normal norms who are not special as I am, with my special individual music and my tasty special non-conformist food?

WEAPONS PRIMED.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:25 / 16.03.06
They are in a constant flurry of thought

That's one better than you're managing, then.
 
 
BlueMeanie
15:27 / 16.03.06
Even the norms, with their normal mainstream music and their normal everyday televisions and their grey mundane food and their bland little lives, in the rain? Even them? The boring normal norms who are not special as I am, with my special individual music and my tasty special non-conformist food?

In all honesty, just about anyone I've ever talked to for more than five minutes have something interesting to say if you're inclined to ask them, and are certainly not "human automata" in any sense of the word.

And it's usually a very dumb thing in my experience to judge a person by what they look like. In my limited experience, the most fun and interesting people look nothing more than 'conventional'. Matrix Warriors seem to me to be more like Navel-Gazing Warriors, to be frank.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:05 / 16.03.06
Any kind of meta-thinking is, I tell you, very rare.

That's some pretty impressive mind-reading there, Messy. Tell me, what's my mother's maiden name?

(I was going to ask you to guess which finger I'm holding up right now, but I figured that would be too easy.)

In all honesty, just about anyone I've ever talked to for more than five minutes have something interesting to say if you're inclined to ask them

Emphasis mine, but a very good point by the good Doctor. Wanting to WAKE PEOPLE UP!!! is no substitute for being genuinely interested in them. WAKING PEOPLE UP!!! is all about you, and your supercool sexy secret knowledge: but if you'll try actually focussing on other people in and of themselves (rather than as blank slates onto which to project your supercool sexy etc.), then you'll find that they're actually pretty goddam interesting.

And guess what? They got that way without any help from you.
 
 
Sam T.
16:43 / 16.03.06
Err.. all of them? Most of those I know. My sampling of population, for what it is worth. Again, maybe I know all the wrong ones.

The boring normal norms who are not special as I am, with my special individual music and my tasty special non-conformist food?

WEAPONS PRIMED.

Put that gun down. I'm not considering myself special in any way. I entertain thoughts that most people I know, when I ask them about, don't entertain at all. Ever. That's all I'm saying. I actually dig The Beatles and Simon & Garfunkel, for the record.

That's one better than you're managing, then. Probably.

In all honesty, just about anyone I've ever talked to for more than five minutes have something interesting to say if you're inclined to ask them Absolutely! Just don't talk to them them about anything metaphysical, or a bit too out of the ordinary, because you'll get strange look. Ask them about their work, hobbies, and 9 times out of 10 you'll learn something.

Wanting to WAKE PEOPLE UP!!! is no substitute for being genuinely interested in them. WAKING PEOPLE UP!!! is all about you, and your supercool sexy secret knowledge: but if you'll try actually focussing on other people in and of themselves (rather than as blank slates onto which to project your supercool sexy etc.), then you'll find that they're actually pretty goddam interesting.

They are interesting. All of them. Never said anything opposite. I don't think of myself as a Matrix Warrior, for the record again. I'm interested in people, I try to help people out of their problem as much as I can, I fucking talk to them and I am LISTENING to them, really, contrary to what most of you are doing here, projecting your hate of this book on me, like I'm the devil advocate and I really digged it, which isn't the case, I'm just fucking saying that: 'Any kind of meta-thinking is, I tell you, very rare', not because I'm fucking reading their mind but because I ASKED them.

Whoa.

(Isn't it a Greek name btw? Shooting in the dark here)
 
 
Alex's Grandma
17:03 / 16.03.06
It's becoming clear to me that a lot of people round these parts took the red pill, and not the blue pill.

Or is it the other way round?

I can never remember.

Anyway the one that They want you to take, but which you shouldn't, metaphorically, obviously. 'The Matrix' is a metaphor

There are too many 'Agent Smiths' on Barbelith at the moment, IMVHO, and not enough 'Neos' - How on earth is this message board going to contribute to the (r)evolution (do you see what I did there?) of human consciousness if we carry on arguing from this position of over-rationalist scepticism with regard to some of the new ideas that are floating round out there, right now? The future is here, and it's happening, right now, and if Barbelith as a whole is going to be an agent of action, as opposed to reaction in the forthcoming changes, globally, the ones that are already obviously very apparent, to those with the eyes to see, in the run-up to the end of the world (as we know it,) on December 23, 2012, some of us, I think, are going to have to (re)open our minds.

Who here's little heart wasn't set racing when they first read 'The Invisibles'?

What's happened to that spirit?

Let's get it back!



(And no, for the record, I have not been in the pub all afternoon. That's just what the Government would have you believe.)
 
 
ibis the being
17:03 / 16.03.06
Just don't talk to them them about anything metaphysical, or a bit too out of the ordinary, because you'll get strange look.

Can I ask you to be more specific about what you mean by "anything metaphysical?" Like what, for example, you might say to someone in regard to metaphysics? Metaphysics is a philosophical discipline with which many people are in fact at least passingly familiar, particularly if they've taken any kind of introductory philosophy class. However, you might get strange looks if you meet your friend's friend and move straight from "nice to meet you" to parsing what exactly a physical property is, for example. But let's say you're working metaphysics more gracefully or organically into conversation, I still don't buy your idea that few people think about metaphysics. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a single person on Earth who hasn't, at some time or another, pondered the existence of God, which is a metaphysical question, albeit not as sexy as "are we all just naked pod people being harvested by alien machine thingies for food?"

Ask them about their work, hobbies, and 9 times out of 10 you'll learn something.

I'd just like to point out that one, the value judgment you're making about what you like to talk about being better and more worthwhile than what others like to talk about may be affecting your ability to truly take interest in other people, and two, there is a vast conversational middle ground between metaphysical pontificating and small talk.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:14 / 16.03.06
Wow. I always just thought Matrix Warrior looked cock. Didn't realise until reading the above quotes quite how unpleasant it was.

I now consider myself special and l33t for not having read it.
 
 
The Falcon
17:21 / 16.03.06
(I was going to ask you to guess which finger I'm holding up right now, but I figured that would be too easy.)

Not the thumb, then?
 
 
Char Aina
17:22 / 16.03.06
When you try to use an example like 'The Matrix', which everybody has seen, to start a conversation on the nature of reality, most people I know will give you the 'But it's only a flick!' answer.

i'd laugh out loud.


i have to say, this matrix warrior crap seems even more laughable than some of the other magick books i've gathered over the years. i think its the earnest and gritty leather trenchcoat wearing chap i keep seeing in my mind's eye as i read.

he wears it all the time...


the shit about women that fly quotes does veer awfully close to that line between the funny and the horrific.
i think it veers that way from the wrong side of the line, but your ability to laugh at idiotic preachers and their witless congregation may be greater than mine.
 
  

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