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VMemes 101

 
  

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Aertho
01:24 / 04.03.06
What is a vMeme?

Chad
They're like sets of stereotypical memes that coincide with cultural and personal value structures. Only they're mapped along an evolutionary sequence.

Wikipedia
...the term "vMeme" refers to a core value system, acting as an organizing principle, which expresses itself through memes (self-propagating ideas, habits, or cultural practices). The prepended and superscripted letter v indicates these are not basic memes but value systems which include them.

Clare Graves
I am not saying in this conception of adult behavior that one style of being, one form of human existence is inevitably and in all circumstances superior to or better than another form of human existence, another style of being. What I am saying is that when one form of being is more congruent with the realities of existence, then it is the better form of living for those realities. And what I am saying is that when one form of existence ceases to be functional for the realities of existence then some other form, either higher or lower in the hierarchy, is the better form of living. I do suggest, however, and this I deeply believe is so, that for the overall welfare of total man's existence in this world, over the long run of time, higher levels are better than lower levels and that the prime good of any society's governing figures should be to promote human movement up the levels of human existence.

The suggested text for this semester will be A Brief History of Everything, by Ken Wilbur. Loathe as I am to endorse a book with the author's photo on the cover, it's easily read and has diagrams. Advanced readers may enjoy Spiral Dynamics : Mastering Values, Leadership, and Change, by Don Beck and Chris Cowen.

Links
Spiral Dynamics dot com
Spiral Dynamics dot net
Spiral Dynamics dot org
Disinformation's Spiral Dynamics bibliography
What is Enlightenment : Spiral Dynamics
Integral Institute - skip intro
 
 
Aertho
01:34 / 04.03.06
I was asked a little while ago to make this, and have finally been motivated to do so.

I've decided to construct a station of reference here with vMemes 101. I'm not quite sure how this will work once peoople start interacting, but I hope to work through the first six vMemes in an easily understood manner.

First though, basic concepts and rules.
 
 
Aertho
02:21 / 04.03.06
EVERYTHING IS A HOLON
Holons are "things" that are "whole" as well as "parts". Reality as a whole is not composed of things, or processes, but of holons. Holons display four fundamental capacities:

1. self-preservation (wholeness/agency/"me")
they are defined by their own individual form, pattern, or structure

2. self-adaptation (partness/communion/"we")
fit into its existing environment

3. self-transcendence (evolution as part of a higher holon)

4. self-dissolution (devolution into wholes of lower holons)

Each emergent holon transcends but includes its predecessor.
Thus cell-holons are parts of organ-holons, which in turn are parts of organism-holons, which are parts of community-holons.

The number of levels which a hierarchy comprises determines whether it is 'shallow' or 'deep'; and the number of holons on any given level we shall call its 'span'. Each successive level of evolution produces greater depth and less span. Destroy any type of holon, and you will destroy all of the holons above it and none of the holons below it.

The micro is in relational exchange with the macro at all levels of its depth. Evolution has directionality:
Increasing complexity.
Increasing differentiation/integration.
Increasing organisation/structuration.
Increasing relative consciousness.
 
 
Aertho
02:49 / 04.03.06
MEMETIC THEORY
Memetics is the study of ideas and concepts viewed as "living" organisms, capable of reproduction and evolution in an "Ideosphere" (similar to the Biosphere) consisting of the collective of human minds. Memes reproduce by spreading to new hosts, who will spread them further (typical examples are jokes, catchphrases or politicial ideas).

At present memetics is somewhat controversial. Partly this is due to misunderstandings about what it means, leading to claims that it excludes human free will, creativity and progress, and that it is bad science. This will likely change in time, as the field matures.

...
So basically, memes are just another form of holon in this universe. And the one of the latest "products" of evolution. Memes have emerged from human mental capacities, and continue to emerge as those capacities evolve and expand.
 
 
Aertho
14:55 / 04.03.06
And away we go...


BEIGE
emerged 100,000 years ago
worldview INSTINCTIVE/SURVIVALISTIC

A natural milieu where humans rely on instincts to survive. The level of basic survival; food, water, warmth, sex, and safety have priority. Uses habits and instincts just to survive. Distinct self is barely awakened or sustained. Forms into survival bands to perpetuate life.

Do what you must just to stay alive.
    • uses instincts and habits just to survive
    • distinct self is barely awakened or sustained
    • food, water, warmth, sex, and safety have priority
    • forms into survival bands to perpetuate life
    • lives “off the land” much as other animals

Manifestations
First human societies
senile elderly
starving masses
African Bushmen
street people



An illustration of "Lucy", the australopithecus homonid.

It's been suggested that Clan of the Cave Bear is an example of BEIGE, but I don't buy that. 'Cave Bear' exhibits thinking that has superstitions, art, and the beginnings of culture... which may be argued as high-end BEIGE, but I see as being the beginnings of the next stage in memetic evolution.
 
 
Aertho
15:05 / 04.03.06


The business philosophy and mark of GYRO is developed from on the application and understanding of evolution. Tall order for a small Detroit-based design studio. By appropriating the “evolutions” of Pokemon imagery, Spiral Dynamic vMemes, and trading card culture, GYROmon provides a way for us to better understand our clients, our shared goals, and the complex roles we all take on.

I built little Digimon based on vMemes. Sometimes it's easier to give characterization to ideas, and rememebr things accordingly, as opposed to what-color-follows-what.

THE SCRAPPER
Gyromon Level 1 is a virtually automatic state of existence, driven by the imperative physiological needs that trigger the very basic survival equipment with which we are born. In its original form, starting 100,000 years ago, the Scrapper level of existence was the first step that made us human. It is humans simply struggling to survive in environments where there are other animals. Yet we are more sophisticated and seem to have more conceptual skills for bonding into protective clans to preserve what we have and fend off predators. The father in the survival clan eats first because if the strongest dies, the family has no hope. So, the key to Level 1 is survival using instinctive intelligences, with a more heightened sensory system with which we can see better, hear better, we can sense things with the hair standing on the back of our neck. Simply staying alive is more highly valued than anything else.

The only real Scrappers that exists today in pristine condition are hidden away in Indonesia and parts of Africa. We’ve studied bushmen for some time, and it’s quite clear that they have an uncanny ability to recall where the water is buried, where the ostrich eggs are hidden, and can sense weather changes. So we don’t equate primitive with being “dumb” because there are possibly sixteen different senses, including a remote viewing capacity, that are activated at this level. But today, most of these senses have atrophied and have been overwhelmed by our more complex conceptual systems.

One can find pieces of Scrapper behavior in street people who are basically hunter-gatherers, who get what they eat where they find it. You can certainly see it in the horrible conditions of extreme poverty in Somalia or Ethiopia, where it’s a hand-to-mouth existence. And also, it’s evident in newborn infants, who eat when they’re hungry. And some people, when exposed to a catastrophe, may regress to Level 1. Higher-order priorities suddenly vanish in the midst of personal tragedy, extreme suffering, or deprivation.

There’s a kind of emptiness, which is certainly fear-driven, because boundaries and expectations have suddenly dissolved and one is on one’s own footing, living by one’s own wiles. It’s that feeling that we have when we have to do something entirely different, something that we’ve never done before and are not sure that we even can do.
 
 
Aertho
20:58 / 05.03.06


SHINING KNIGHT
Ystin, the first of the Seven Soldiers, found hirself in present-day Los Angeles after breaking out of Castle Revolving. "Birth Trauma" analogies aside, Ystin became a stranger in a strange land, lost among the bright lights and alien forms of the contemporary urban landscape. Ystin ate from garbage, hid from others, and surrendered to despair. Hir moment of change occurred after being threatened at gunpoint, whereupon Ystin responded in kind. Instead of allowing the "kill or be killed" instinct to continue, Ystin knelt and acknowledged the legendary ethic that befit a proper Knight of Camelot.

Ystin then resolved to seek the assistance of those whom ze thought were also Knights of a similar ethic, and was magically duped and apprehended by the immortal destroyers of Camelot. Forced into a deathmatch against hir true love, Ystin's unwavering ethic allowed hir to emerge victorious. In the end, Ystin found hirself still lost in a strange land, but with a mythical purpose and self-image.

"Red am I in battle. Red the ravens that follow at my heels. Gloriana. I am your death."
 
 
Aertho
21:12 / 05.03.06


PURPLE
emerged 20,000 - 40,000 years ago
worldview MAGICAL/ANIMISTIC

A magical place alive with spirit beings and mystical signs. thinking is animistic; magical spirits, good and bad, swarm the earth leaving blessings, curses, and spells which determine events. Forms into ethnic tribes. The spirits exist in ancestors and bond the tribe. Kinship and lineage establish political links.

Keep the spirits happy and the tribe’s nest safe.
    • obeys the desires of the spirit being and mystical signs
    • shows allegiance to chief, elders, ancestors, and clan
    • individual subsumed in group
    • preserves sacred objects, places, events, and memories
    • observes rites of passage, seasonal cycles, and tribal customs


Manifestations
family rituals
shamanism
superstitions
New Age beliefs
ancient grudges
athletic teams
street gangs
 
 
Aertho
21:18 / 05.03.06


THE TURTLE
Gyromon Level 2 is animistic, tribalistic, and mystical. In this world of Turtles, we tend to have the first evidence of human bonding, the sense of a kindred spirit, that “I’m someone because I belong to a certain clan or certain tribe.” During the Ice Age, the world became overpopulated. There were more humans per acre than there had ever been before. We had groups in the Level 1 system beginning to bump into other groups, with a sense of competition for niches starting to appear. Suddenly a clan, which is loosely structured, solidifies into a tribe of, say, four to five hundred people, so that the previous clan can now survive in the midst of competition with other clans. So one of the Life Conditions changes that led to the shift from Level 1 to Level 2 had to do with territoriality and access to resources.

Now, at the same time, a mutation occurred to awaken in the brain the first real ability to assign cause and effect. This was the first sense of the metaphysical. In the Scrapper mind, events seem to be scattered, each one unto itself, without much predictability. But, for example, in Africa, if the moon is full and the cow dies, the Turtle mind connects the two events, one causing the other. So the awakening of the metaphysical system, together with the capacity to work more firmly in a team arrangement, occurred in the transition from the Dawn People (Scrappers) to the Mystical People (Turtles), precipitated by the changing Life Conditions that occurred during the Ice Age, about fifty thousand years ago.

It seems that the emergence of the capacity for bonding and working together, would literally improve one’s chances for survival. Because these stages of existence, or meme levels, represent bio-psycho-social systems, they indicate the evolutionary emergence of biological and physical capacities and abilities. For example, we know that the level of the brain chemical oxytocin, which has various health-giving benefits, is higher when humans eat in a group. And so eating together, breaking bread together, feasts of various kinds, all raise the oxytocin level in the brain and improve survival. Another thing that developed at this time was whatever it is in the brain that chemically enables the person to hear inner voices, the voices of spirits. The Turtle meme is heavily laden with such so-called right brain tendencies as heightened intuition, emotional attachments to places and things, and a mystical sense of cause and effect.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
02:01 / 06.03.06
Whoa Chad, these are awesome. It's like real life chaotic neutrals and stuff.
 
 
Aertho
02:20 / 06.03.06
I haven't even gotten started Jack. Thank you. Things don't get interesting until civilization, and then they really pick up when we get to the second tier and theoretical GYROmon.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
02:49 / 06.03.06
Not to derail into comicsness, but is Ystin appropriately beige (or is she meant to be orange? The colour bar's hard to see clearly) or would purple make sense? I'm thinking about the animistic/magical aspect of hir character, and the fact that for Ystin there's all this magical baggage hanging around - Guilt as externalized consciousness, same with Vanguard the talking horse. Or was your point - I'd have to reread the Seven Soldiers thread - that she's transitioning between them?
 
 
*
03:52 / 06.03.06
I'll wait till you're done and then go on a tear about social evolutionism.
 
 
Lurid Archive
06:57 / 06.03.06
Reality as a whole is not composed of things, or processes, but of holons.

Is this a definitional trick? That is, the only parts of reality you are interested in are those described by the theory, hence it is all "holons"? The fundamental particles of physics don't seem to be holons, after all, and neither does much of material reality.

At present memetics is somewhat controversial.

Thats true. Memes are largely a construct that are supported by analogy. The problem is that there is very little solid theory or predictive power there. Its little more than an explanatory tool at the moment...lots of people don't believe it has very much content.

Evolution has directionality:

Increasing complexity.
Increasing differentiation/integration.
Increasing organisation/structuration.
Increasing relative consciousness.


I'm reasonably sure that many biologists would disagree with this. I think that an increase in diversity might be arguable - I'm not sure, however - but an increase in "relative consciousness" is definitely suspect. Part of the problem is that it is rather unclear what it means.

But, tbh, it was at this next bit that I really started to ponder...

Now, at the same time, a mutation occurred to awaken in the brain the first real ability to assign cause and effect.

Uh huh. The idea that humans developed various capacities, conveniently put in neat hierarchy, due to spontaneous evolutions is something quite suited to comics. I guess it may have some utility as a way of thinking about these things, though if one asks whether it is "true" (in the sense that humans actually developed these capacities in some distinct, discrete steps) my understanding of that is that it isn't. This is starting to read like some of those bad evolutionary psychology "just so" stories.
 
 
Aertho
21:52 / 06.03.06
The use of terms such as "mutation" and "evolution" are probably suffering for lack of a better word. The overall notion is that these systems of growth are natural manifestations.

Progressive growth occurs in the face of challenge, and in the context of archaic humankind, the ice age probably did weed out homonids who did not exhibit the genetic tendencies to work together in order to survive. Humankind is still evolving. But that's a harder science than this.

It's merely suggesting that over time, it is the ideas and worldviews that have grown more complex in the face of technological development, not the people who carry them. While an expanding heirarchy is established as those views grow, all humans are born at BEIGE; and none leave BEIGE behind. It merely expands to encompass more distinctions and build a more refined and interconnected sense of Self. It's not so much a social evolution, as a multitude of personal ones.

I'm certain to have not answered all of your questions. Small, slow dog.
 
 
Aertho
00:05 / 07.03.06


Examples of PURPLE elements include:

The Lottery by Shirley Jackson
Pleasantville by Gary Ross
The Lord of The Rings by J. R. R. Tolkien
Do the Right Thing by Spike Lee
What the Bleep, by William Arntz, Betsy Chasse, and Mark Vicente
American History X by David McKenna
Prussian Blue and their vocal stylings
The Christian Exodus
the People of Lancaster County
ethnic cleansing
the Hatfields and McCoys
 
 
Aertho
00:54 / 07.03.06


THE MANHATTAN GUARDIAN
Jake Jordan was suffering from severe depression after accidentally killing a 13-year-old while in uniform as a New York City policeman. After two years of unemployment, he was ersuaded by is father-in-law to persue a job at the Manhattan Guardian as its very first living masthead: a newspaper superhero who would make and report the sensationalist stories of the day. Jake's first assignment led him underground to uncover stories surfacing about warring tribes of "subway pirates". He made contact with one of the subway captains, who informed him they were after a magickal item hidden deep under New York City. Eventually, both crews were killed, but Jake saved his wife Carla, who had been captured by the rival captain.

His next assignment took him to save the lives of several people held at gunpoint in Century Hollow. His enemies there were the animatronic representations of global cultures, directed by the maniacal jealous rage of Jorge Control. Jorge's rage mirrored Jake's own, who had previously asked Carla to marry him. Carla refused Jake, insisting that he was enthralled by the fame, risks and power of his career as a superhero.

Enraged and defiant, Jake turned on his employer, Ed Stargard, and discovered Ed to be an old man in an immatured body. Stargard thereupon informed Jake of the secret history of the Newsboys of Nowhere Street, the horrifying magic that occured in Slaughter Swamp, and how it led both of them to that exact moment. Jake refused to listen to Stargard's pleas to leave him to die, and instead chose to face the impending Sheeda invasion of New York City alongside Stargard and the Newsboy Army.

"Baby, it's not about the job or the money; it's about being in the right place at the right time to do the right thing. And knowing you're gonna do it even if you don't want to."
 
 
Aertho
01:05 / 07.03.06


Red
emerged approximately 10,000 years ago
worldview IMPULSIVE/EGOCENTRIC

A jungle where the strongest and most cunning survive. Emergence of a self distinct from the tribe; powerful, impulsive, egocentric, heroic. Mythic spirits, dragons, beasts, and powerful people. Feudal lords protect underlings in exchange for obedience and labor. The basis of feudal empires, power, and glory. Enjoys self to the fullest without regret or remorse.

Avoid shame, get respect, and do what you want.
    • breaks free from any domination or constraint to please self as self desires
    • stands tall, expects attention, demands respect, and calls the shots
    • enjoys self to the fullest right now without guilt or remorse
    • conquers, out-foxes, and dominates other aggressive characters


Manifestations
feudal kingdoms
rebellious youth
epic heroes
“terrible twos”
James Bond villains
wild rock stars
frontier mentalities
 
 
Aertho
01:09 / 07.03.06


THE PITBULL
In the Level 3 zone, we have the first raw, egocentric self. “I am somebody.” Beginning approximately ten thousand years ago, what began to cause the change in Life Conditions that led to Pitbulls were not failures, but rather successes. In Level 2 we had become very successful. We had found food, we had stabilized our lifestyle, we had conquered what we thought were the dragons in our life. Everything was smooth, boring. So many of the youth became discontented. They saw that there was something about their essence that, rather than being protected, was being contained, limited. Then Level 3 strides forth. Now we have an elite individual beginning to move away from the bonding element in Level 2, which had become overplayed. So what Turtles produced, through its success, was the need for strong individuals who ascend to power, who dominate, for example, in a military environment where we don’t have the time to vote whether or not to “take yon hill.” What begins to spring free is the assertion of raw self –the renegade, the heretic, the barbarian, the go-it-alone, the power-self, the hedonist.

Turtles definitely seem more appealing, with their emphasis on human bonding and the sense of the metaphysical. There are both positive and negative expressions to all the memes, including Pitbulls. In Level 3, we see high crime rates, we see all kinds of rage and rebellion, but we may also see wonderful spurts of creativity, heroic acts, and the ability to break from tradition and chart a whole new pathway. And Pitbull rebellion and impulsiveness could only happen because Turtles, through bonding, stabilized things. And also, Level 3 was a rebellion against the rituals and sacrifices forced on the youth by the Level 2 system, in painful rites of passage, for example. So that’s why Pitbulls follow Turtles, and why Level 2 set the stage for Level 3.

This is very important: I want you to see the interconnection. Memes are not free-floating entities. Pitbulls are not better than Turtles. They’re just different. So you have to ask, first and foremost, what are the Life Conditions? If the Life Conditions require you to be strong and self-assertive, or to fight your way out of a horrible situation, then the Pitbull meme is the way to be. Level 3 is not an aberration, but a normal part of the human meme repertoire.
 
 
Triumvir
02:19 / 07.03.06
Wow, this is quite incredible. I've never seen anything quite like it. Keep up the good work!
 
 
Lurid Archive
13:47 / 07.03.06
I'm still rather confused. Is the claim that all humans can display all these characterisics (operate at all these levels, if you will) and that circumstance can limit a person's or a group's potential? So starving people concentrate on getting food, rather than making music?

That seems plausible, if unremarkable, except I'd like to hear examples of human groups which don't have rituals and form into groups (as per purple). As far as I can see, chimps do that too. In fact, looking at the wikipedia entry, I'm pretty sure that chimps (all great apes, probably) express all the behaviours seen in the first tier. I'm less sure about the second tier, but this is a lack of knowledge on my part. That is, it wouldn't surprise me if chimps do all these things. Looking at chimps brings into sharp relief the problems with the repeated use of "evolution" and "mutation" for these ideas. (I wasn't entirely surprised to find out that this was all originally aimed at a business management audience....)

So is the point is that these should be organising principles rather than isolated behaviour you can observe? I'm not sure that is a great deal of help, so I'd like more examples. (The notion that early hominids didn't cooperate is...deeply suspect, from what I can tell.) So far, its all looking rather like yet another story about the inevitable advance of evolution, history and civilisation.
 
 
Aertho
15:57 / 07.03.06
You've pretty much nailed it. The view of chimpanzees being at BEIGE is also an accurate assessment. I sometimes look at dogs' soulful eyes and wonder if they're PURPLE. It's not so much that BEIGE thinking does not allow for them to band together or cooperate, but a level of sophistication in the interactions. I'll try to find more specific examples. Your comment about making music is key... Lascaux is used by Dawkins to describe the fundamental difference between humankind before, and humankind after — but I'm sure PURPLE is best characterized by the burial of the dead, which probably indicates a knowledge of agriculture and life cycles...
 
 
Lurid Archive
16:53 / 07.03.06
You misunderstand me. The first tier in the wikipedia article goes from Biege to Green.

* Beige: Archaic-Instinctive — survivalistic/automatic/reflexological
o From 100,000 BC on
o "Express self to meet imperative physiological needs through instincts of Homo sapiens."
* Purple: Animistic-Tribalistic Magical-Animistic
o From 50,000 BC on
o "Sacrifice to the ways of the elders and customs as one subsumed in group."
* Red: Egocentric-Exploitive Power Gods/dominionist
o From 7000 BC on
o "Express self (impulsively) for what self desires without guilt and to avoid shame."
* Blue: Absolutistic-Obedience Mythic Order — purposeful/authoritarian
o From 3000 BC on
o "Sacrifice self for reward to come through obedience to rightful authority in purposeful Way."
* Orange: Multiplistic-Achievist Scientific/strategic
o From 1700 AD on (as early as 600 AD according to Graves and Calhoun)
o "Express self (calculatedly) to reach goals and objectives without rousing the ire of important others."
* Green: Relativistic-Personalistic — communitarian/egalitarian
o From 1850 AD on (surged in early 20th century)
o "Sacrifice self interest now in order to gain acceptance and group harmony."


Can you explain to me why chimps don't fulfill any or even all of these? Chimps have also been known to cover the dead...
 
 
Aertho
17:37 / 07.03.06
Can you explain to me why chimps don't fulfill any or even all of these?

Nope. Memes are ideas that evolve like everything else. Are you suggesting that humans are unique and aberrant to the natural world? Or do you believe that I'm suggesting that? There's an underlying pattern that goes backward too. That's what relative consciousness implies. Everything can be seen to have a scrapper behaviour phase, a turtle behaviour phase, etc, etc...

If anything, it's the examination of human value structures that serve as the theory's entry point...

Or did I just plug up the drain by breaking the wall down?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:26 / 07.03.06
Personally, I'm a little dodgy about the idea that African bushmen and homeless people are memetically identical to neolithic primitives... am I confused?
 
 
Aertho
18:34 / 07.03.06
I think that's a strange comparison as well... but it's on the sites and in the books.

African Bushmen are hunter-gatherers, and I can see that as a rural version of what the urban homeless do... But things certainly aren't identical.
 
 
Lurid Archive
18:35 / 07.03.06
OK, I'm still not making myself clear. (I should have put "how" instead of "why" is my previous question.)

I think that chimps fulfill all these criteria - from "beige" to "green". They do all these things in the hierarchy. Since you have said that they are "beige", I'd like an explanation of that.

If you are saying that all human groups, and some animals too, operate at all these levels of the hierarchy then...well, I guess I'm not understanding what the hierarchy is for. One could start by explaining why it is a hierarchy, rather than an undifferentiated list for instance.

That is, the notion of progress is a recurrent one here. If you are now saying that all the "levels" of this progress are seen in all humans...then I'm not really getting how progress is at all apt.
 
 
Lurid Archive
18:41 / 07.03.06
Personally, I'm a little dodgy about the idea that African bushmen and homeless people are memetically identical to neolithic primitives

I'd push in the other direction myself (though partly because I think that "memes" are a concept with rather little content). That is, I think it is probably quite hard to separate any of us from neolithic humans. Technological advancement is the only thing I can think of that works, though not in such a way as to separate out groups of people, I suspect.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:28 / 07.03.06
Lurid: hat is, I think it is probably quite hard to separate any of us from neolithic humans.

What I was about to say. I would imagine the vMemes are present in any organized hierarchy, and we still retain a lot of old wiring in our noggins...
 
 
Aertho
19:43 / 07.03.06
I think Lurid acknowledges that we retain old programming... vMemes as sequential motivations? Does that work better? A baby chimp doesn't sacrifice itself for peer acceptance... There's a whole notion of fulcrums that the book goes into but doesn't map onto vMemes directly.

The heirarchy is a nested one, in that it includes all motivations and values of the one that came before it. So PURPLE thoughts include BEIGE rationale, RED thoughts include PURPLE and BEIGE... and so on.
 
 
*
22:43 / 07.03.06
African Bushmen are hunter-gatherers, and I can see that as a rural version of what the urban homeless do... But things certainly aren't identical.

It's still a disgusting misrepresentation, from an anthropological perspective. I'd venture to say that it relies on the same racist and colonialist assumptions which supported classical unilinear cultural evolution. And it makes me really not think much of this as a disciplined theory.

I hope, Cassandra, that you can change my mind. But it's not looking likely from here.
 
 
Aertho
13:12 / 08.03.06
How does everyone feel about Maslow?
 
 
elene
13:24 / 08.03.06
How does everyone feel about Maslow?

Well yeah, but we all - Bushmen and homeless people included - needs all of these levels, Cassandra.
 
 
Aertho
13:39 / 08.03.06
I never read the theory to suggest that it compartmentalizes or limits people's, or peoples', growth. Only that it was a guide for how one does grow. Please keep going; I have misunderstood before.
 
 
*
20:54 / 08.03.06
If the vMeme system is, like Maslow's hierarchy, something that every person goes through, why stick certain groups of people into different categories with respect to their vMemes? If you accept that at some times a given member of a San society will be focused on obtaining food, and then at other times, having obtained food, they will be much more interested in social approval and self-actualization, wouldn't it be pretty stupid and offensive to then say the San people are examples of the raw survival level of need?

Besides that, it's simply inaccurate. For example, the !Kung San, like other gathering and hunting societies, actually spend less of their time obtaining their basic needs than do the majority of people in industrial societies (as demonstrated by Marshall Sahlins). Thus, they have more time for storytelling, social relationships, music, and dance— all things which can help them meet higher order needs, like self-actualization.
 
  

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