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Underground > Comic Books >

Reading digitized comics? Do you do it? Are you scared of it? Admit it.

  
  

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matthew.
17:56 / 02.03.06
Confession time....

Most of the comics I read nowadays are on my computer. Most recently (within the past two months, but I've been downloading for longer), I downloaded:

  • League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (volumes 1 and 2)
  • Cerebus (complete, with extras including animation sequences)
  • Spider-Man: The Other
  • JLA, by GM
  • Crisis on Infinite Earths (complete with tie-ins)
  • And most impressive, 4.3x gigabytes worth of DC comics that tie into Infinite Crisis including:

    • Identity Crisis
    • Hush
    • War Games
    • Adam Strange

This is merely the beginning, my friends. I am a pirate. I have downloaded over 5000 dollars worth of comics. Why do I do it? Well, I could make a lot of arguments saying that comics are overpriced, overadvertised, inflated, of lower quality, and blah blah blah. But truth by told, I'm cheap. I'm currently paying off a new car (wow) and going to school. I don't want a student loan, so I live cheque to cheque. I cannot afford comic books. So I download.

I use a program called CDisplay, which takes .cbr and .cbz files and makes them full-screen. I turn off the lights in my room and sit in bed with my laptop. It's rather comfortable. To go from one issue to the next is a simple keystroke. There is no interruption during reading.

The cons: my reading of comics are far behind most people. In terms of Infinite Crisis, I'm only up to early 2005. I've tried to avoid spoilers, but they're common knowledge a year later. (But, there is a torrent released every week that has every major and non-major comic already digitized. I have very little excuse for being behind. It's just that with those weekly releases (dcp it's called), the "complete" series isn't collated convienantly for me)

Another con: it is illegal. I could be fined, or even do time for this. [humourous aside: (No jury in the world will convict me of reading Dave Sim's misogyny however. Nobody should have to pay for that) /]

I'd prefer to hold the comic. Sometimes I go to the local comic shop and read something real quick. Thank the bearded stone I read very quickly, which means I can bang out an issue or two just before the clerk yells at me for thinking the store is a library.

With that point in mind (it doesn't take me long to read a single issue), here's a pro. Sometimes I don't think I get my money's worth from a comic book when it only takes me five minutes to read it. For example, I read We3, the last comic I bought, in about fifteen minutes. I felt a little disappointed.

(Another thing... I'm downloading them so fast, I can't even read them all. I haven't even gotten around to the complete Sandman plus extras.)
 
 
Robert B
18:07 / 02.03.06
Well, I just bought the complete Miracleman Collection on a CD-ROM off eBay. $10 vs. hundreds of dollars. I too would rather have the actual comics but I can't justify that expense for a series that doesn't officially end due to Eclipse going bankrupt. I didn't even really think about where the guy selling the CDs got the scans of the issues or the fact that he's profitting (somewhat) for someone else's work. I just wanted to read the damn series.
 
 
Sniv
22:00 / 02.03.06
I've done similar to you, Matt, downloading some awesome works that are just too expensive or obscure to get in print. I've really enjoyed working through Morrison's back-catalogue - Doom Patrol was mind-shatteringly good, I didn't think I'd like it (!), and Flex was a revelation. I will buy We3 one of these days, it blew my socks off.

I also had a great time reading the infinte-crisis build-ups. I could literally fill my brain filling up with totally useless information about all these characters I'd barely knew existed.

I should note at this point that I read these when I was in the middle of a very hairy money-drought (and therefore comics drought). It was three months since my last four-colour fix, and I knew I'd be able to read 8C #1 when I finally got paid, so I read the entire 150+ issue prologue in a week-long orgy of spandex and tired eyes. Yeah, I was weak, but I'm a junkie, I needs me comics.

That said though, some of it was utter shite, and I'm glad I didn't pay for it. On one level, DC expecting us fanboys to shell out for what is mostly filler is pretty insulting - could downloading comics be seen as a protest against money-grubbing comics execs (ooh, they're evil)? Or maybe I'm just kidding myself (I think I am).

Although, if it weren't for downloading I'd never have bought the last issue of Planetary, or the recent issues of Superman (I quite dug them, I've never really read supes before and I really enjoyed it when I read the downloaded issues). Downloading comics, especially back-issues, can only increase your interest in the medium and get you reading (and buying?) even more, at least in my experience. I can test series out with a download, and if I like them I'll add them to my pull list, or even hunt down the back-issues (like Flex. must. have. Flex...).

I seriously don't think the industry will start coming after readers who are only perpetuating a dying medium. Want to get your kid nephew or neice into comics? Give them a CD full of rips - they'll probably read them more eagerly than the paper ones, what with kids and their new-fangled technology. All we need now is cheap, available tablet PCs (like PADs from Star Trek) about the size of a comic book, and I'll be a happy boy.
 
 
the credible hulk
01:04 / 03.03.06
I'm with you on this one. I find that I've been reading a large enough number of ongoing series' that I'd go bankrupt trying to pay for all the things I want to read.

I try to find a fair compromise in doing so, though. I DO like to own my favorite stories where possible. For instance, I've been downloading Planetary when each issue comes out, and I've bought each of the three trades as they've been released. Same with Ultimates and a number of graphic novels that I read first in digital form (We3, Orbiter).

I think it's a bit unreasonable to read everything for free and not put any money in the pockets of its creators, so if something's good, I try to get a copy on my bookshelf.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
01:15 / 03.03.06
I read somewhere that Marvel was aware of the problem and was thinking about eventually making their catalog available for download, and toying with like a quarter an issue type pricing. I would definetely be down for that, since I've been here in Florida all my comics have been downloaded.
 
 
the credible hulk
01:25 / 03.03.06
Yeah, I think that's a really smart idea on the part of Marvel (and any other publishers that consider making a move like that). I guess the pricing problem stems from determining the details of the current pricing model, for instance, what percentage of the 2.99 we buy is used to cover manufacturing and distribution? Obviously the price for downloaded comics should be less, as there's no manufacture, but the actual creative team still require compensation. 25 cents seems like a very low figure, but I could be wrong.

I do agree with the idea, though. Look how it's worked with the music industry and itunes.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
01:42 / 03.03.06
Ok, it looks more like 99 ecnt or a monthly fee. Here's the full article from CBR.

Marvel have been making a few noises about online comics of late. In the past they've released specifically targeted issues for free, in order to promote certain titles, but I understand some people have been made fully aware of the extent of the online pirate situation. Lying In The Gutters brought this to a head some weeks back, reporting that the large majority of Marvel titles are available to download illegally, especially newer titles. It's becoming mainstream. Even one of their star writers, Warren Ellis, admits publicly to doing so.

Well, Marvel are asking the questions now. Literally. They've created an online resource to get some information on the actual and potential digital audience for their work with a $500 prize incentive to do so. And it's rather revealing as to what their plans may contain.

Although naughtily, foreigners like me can complete the survey, including stating which country we're from, without being told that we can't win the goodies. Damn.

It acknowledges that people are already downloading Marvel comics illegally, and asks as to the extent of the situation. We can probably presume that they won't send you a writ if you admit to torrenting the latest chapter of "The Other," but you never know…

The favoured future option seems to be a choice between a renewable subscription to access a library of Marvel titles at any time, or a 99c fee for a single issue. Pretty much the iTunes model.

Question 33 asks for suggestions for Marvel.com. Feel free to suggest a gossip column.

I asked "Flying Friar" Online guru, Todd Allen, for his thoughts.

"This survey tells us that Marvel is sincere about moving ahead with their digital comics program. Better, it tells us they're keeping an open mind about what kind of material to offer and how to offer it.

"Now obviously, I'm a little biased, being the originator of the online version of the Flying Friar, but let me share the story of a friend a mine who actively wants digital downloads. He's a consultant. He gets shipped out on Monday morning to various places and comes home on Fridays. Have laptop, will travel. He'd rather have downloads for two notable reasons: he can't lug a stack of comics with him to the place he has time to read them, and since he's not around a shop during the week, he frequently has problems with sell-outs. I ended up procuring an issue of 'Infinite Crisis' for him, a couple weeks back, because his travel schedule screwed up his shopping. I see his buying starting to slow down as his lifestyle has shifted away from getting to the store.

"Downloads solve geography problems. Downloads solve print run problems. I like them.

"The direct market as we know it is a collectibles market, more than it is a reading market. Has been for quite a while. There is nothing collectible about a computer file. The reason this solves problems with sold-out print runs is the same reason online comics will not threaten the collectibles business. Ever notice web comics doing well by selling print editions? You don't want to know how well Dark Horse is doing with MegaTokyo in the bookstore market. This can only be good for collected editions. And of course, how many of your current customers do you really think are going to abandon paper for the computer screen? It's a different market.

"In a sense, digital comics can be construed as an outreach program. New readers will be introduced and some of them will want their comics on paper.

"Eventually, quite possibly in the near future, there are going to be more comics available online, so just be aware the distribution channels may be getting tweaked.

"That said, I think the prices Marvel has listed are on the low side. My experience with the traffic that came to richjohnston.com from places like comicbookresources.com and newsarama.com is that an unexpectedly high percentage of the traffic bought a copy - at full cover price. Is this solely because these readers couldn't find a copy locally? That I can't tell you. I can only tell you the conversion rate didn't suggest there were any issues with the price from the people who read their comics news online. I take issue with the highest price on the survey being a 50% discount.

"'Course, I do have a proud Scottish heritage and would rather buy them on the cheap, so there you go.

"It will be interesting to see which path Marvel chooses. All this ultimately says is that they're considering the possibilities. More power to them."
 
 
the credible hulk
01:49 / 03.03.06
I think a monthly fee is reasonable. I'd sign up if it was reasonably priced. MOST of the Marvel catalogue is digitized already, i think (they released a DVD which contains nearly every uncanny x-men issue a while back, didn't they?). As such, it shouldn't be too huge an undertaking for them to make the comics availiable for download.
 
 
Billuccho!
02:26 / 03.03.06
Thanks to CDisplay and Bittorrent, I've read Flex Mentallo, Zenith, New Adventures of Hitler, and loads of old obscure Morrison stuff. Also, Kirby's OMAC. Which is genius.

I don't download anything I can go out and buy easily and relatively cheaply. Because, you know, why?
 
 
matthew.
03:59 / 03.03.06
They also released a CD-ROM of the first 500 (I think) issues of Amazing Spider-Man. The problem with those is that they are in .pdf format, which if you're old hat at reading digitized comics, you'd know is really annoying. .cbr is the best format, bar none.
 
 
sleazenation
07:07 / 03.03.06
I've downloaded a load of difficult to find stuff, things that are by no means obscure, but are also not so easy to obtain anymore... and I've found that I really don't enjoy reading comics on the screen, something that would account for my lack of love for webcomics...
 
 
Spaniel
08:48 / 03.03.06
I do download comics quite a lot, but - and this is crucial but - I always buy anything I particularly like . Pretty much everything by Grant Morrison and Alan Moore is in the must buy section as are almost all indie comics.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
09:12 / 03.03.06
I do download comics quite a lot, but - and this is crucial but - I always buy anything I particularly like .
Yeah, I like trades, and I like that they're durable, easier to carry around than long boxes full of comics, and that in a very tiny way I'd be helping out people who's work I like. So even though I've downloaded them, I'd still wanna but Walking Dead trades, to reread easier, to support the artists, and to have a nifty zombie book for example.
 
 
Dr Strange
12:57 / 03.03.06
I've been dowling comics off on on for a few months now, mostly old stuff (Kirby, Morrison, Moore), and some of the new books coming out that I want to check out before buying.
It's really a good tool to see if you like a book or not. For instance, I do not download any new Morrison or Moore : I just buy them. Now, there are other books I download and read first.
But I find it hard to read a comic on the computer screen, and although .cbr files are nice, it's not perfect (i.e. double spread pages), and something is missing from the original book (but it help save lots of money !).

What we need, is comic specifically written for that format. Then it would be perfect !

Regarding TPB's, I like the comic book format better. It's got a pop quality to it that TPB's lack. Maybe it's because I'm not american, and comics have that cool foreign flavor to me ...

And just wondering, were do you guys get your files from ? (or is it something we can't speak of here ?).
 
 
matthew.
13:28 / 03.03.06
I search through here. It's a hunter-seeker type website that searches through the major torrent directories, such as isohunt and torrentspy. I find that it's indispensible, if not a little slow.
 
 
Dr Strange
13:51 / 03.03.06
Thanks for the link. I go there myself. But yours is by far better.
 
 
the credible hulk
17:02 / 03.03.06
I find that the torrent sites are pretty hit-and-miss for comic books. If you're really interested in finding things quickly and easily, go find a Direct Connect (DC++) client. There are several hubs that specialize in comics, and there's been next to nothing I've been unable to find.

On top of that, the newest stuff to be scanned ends up on the DC++ hubs FIRST. The newest comics start to appear there by wednesday afternoon.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
19:21 / 03.03.06
I have just recently started DLing comics.

What has me stoked right now is a series of torrents called "Chronological X-Men". They are 2 gigs per torrent and there are 26 available now, they start at Uncanny #1 and contain not only the UXM series, but all the spinoffs, as well as every related title to complete crossovers, so when an issue ends with "check out Black Panther #17 for the rest of the story" the next file in sequence is BP #17.

It is, in fact, the holy grail of X-Geekery, and there is no way I would ever have the cash to track down every issue included.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
21:10 / 03.03.06
I have an inherent dislike of reading standard comics on a screen. Simply for the fact that getting close to a screen isn't the same as getting close to a bit of paper. And I actually mean getting close. Zooming is awkward and wrong, I like seeing stuff at the size it's supposed to be presented and being able to physically peer in to the image for a more detailed reading.

Reading (standard*) comics on a screen is like looking at pictures through a light screen fog. It's there but it's not there, y'know? It just frustrates me.

*By standard, I mean yr regular comic you find on the shelves. There's some lovely stuff created to be read on a screen, and some nice ways to adapt something that was originally in that format. But generally.
 
 
the credible hulk
21:31 / 03.03.06
Oh, Matt & Dr. Strange:

If you're going to use torrents for your comic downloading, I'd like to reccomend Z-Cult FM. You'll have to register, but it'll be worth it, as it is the point of origin for most of the torrents that get re-posted on other sites and isohunt. You'll probably see a wider variety of torrents on z-cult.
 
 
T Blixius
00:27 / 04.03.06
I read the invisibles using CDisplay. If it wasn't for the accessibility of CDisplay, the Invisibles distributed widely via the internet, I wouldn't be here.

I would like to see digital comics, and how about this : digital comics at 2.99 an issue, express downloaded to you. I can pay that, I would want to pay that to ease my conscience, and i don't even have to make it to the comic store either. Bonus.
 
 
Dr Strange
04:52 / 04.03.06
Hey thanks, the Credible Hulk (great name, by the way), but I've been there before (I registered and all that), and stupid as I am, I couldn't find how this thing works !
And while on the subject, what is a DC++ client ?

Now you can tell I'm not a professional hacker, officer !
 
 
iconoplast
06:57 / 04.03.06
DC++ doesn't work for the Mac, or didn't when last I tried it.

What does work is an IRC client called Jircii. You find the right channel on the right server and there are people running scripts. You type @find spiderman into the chat window and anyone 'serving' an issue of spiderman will automatically respond with a trigger phrase. You cut and paste that and message it to them, and then they let you browse their downloads.

It's easier, I think, than that made it sound, and the people are very helpful.
 
 
the credible hulk
16:22 / 04.03.06
Dr Strange: Last time I used it, it was forum based, and the two forum sections at the absolute bottom of the list are actually links to the comics tracker. It may be different now, I haven't used torrents for comics in a while.

DC++ is a file-sharing client that uses a hub-based system, so you connect to hubs that are themed by content, such as comic books, movies, ebooks, music, et cetera.

Iconoplast: Here are a couple links for some mac DC clients. Not sure how good they are as I've just got a pc. Might be worth a shot, though.
 
 
matthew.
12:46 / 05.03.06
Just an update. I'm currently downloading GM's JLA: Earth 2. This, I might buy, however, because of Frank Quitely's lovely and detailed art. As well, GM and FQ's New X-Men. Man, that Frank can draw.
 
 
CameronStewart
13:12 / 05.03.06
As a professional comics illustrator whose livelihood depends on the financial health of the medium, I can't help but bristle when I read accounts of people mass-downloading comics, particularly when they openly admit it's because they don't want to pay for them (as opposed to being unable to purchase them due to unavailability, such as Flex Mentallo). To be honest I was waiting to see if you'd mention Seaguy or another title of mine, so that I could really lay into you.

Thing is, I'm aware my own conscience isn't entirely clean - I download music, frequently. 8 times out of 10, however, if it's to my liking, I will go out and purchase a copy of the cd, or more recently download a legitimate version from the iTunes music store. There is that remaning 2 out of 10, though. I also download certain television shows - usually if I miss them when broadcast, or if they are unavailable to me, such as UK programming (though I do usually purchase dvds of shows I've downloaded and enjoyed - even the UK ones, which I have had sent over via Sendit.com). I've never downloaded a feature film, and don't plan to.

So I dunno, do I have a legitimate right to complain about downloading comics? I try when possible to do the right thing and pay for my entertainment but I know there are times when I've stolen it. My own justification is that the music and television industries are in far greater health than the comics biz, and so stealing comics is more damaging to the industry, but I know that's just a cheap rationalization to cover for my hypocrisy.

But still, I get all riled up about downloading comics...
 
 
Dr Strange
14:34 / 05.03.06
Cameron,
first of all, I want to tell you that I bought Seaguy when it came out as a TPB, not only because of the writer, but also beacause I like your drawings. What's more, I had a hard time finding the book, but I didn't even try to download it : I wanted the real thing.
And that's it really, I download comics that are near impossible to buy (or, at least, at a reasonnable price), things from the 70's or such, and I download some of the new comics coming out, but if I like them, I will buy them afterwards.
I said it before, reading comics on the screen is not as good as reading the actual comics, and it's fine when it's something you cannot get anywhere else, but, at least for me, nothing can replace a real book.
Now, you said the music business is in far greater health than the comics business, well I'm not so sure about that.
I work in a place where we sell CD's, and I can tell you a lot of people have lost their jobs in the past few years because the record industry is not doing well at all. I am not sure internet is the only thing responsible, but the fact is the industry is dying slowly.
Sure, you can find Madonna or Robbie William's records everywhere, but try to look for some quality jazz or classical, it's another story entirely...
 
 
the credible hulk
16:38 / 05.03.06
Cameron,
I think you probably DO have the right to complain about people mass-downloading comics. The only real problem is that, seeing as it's not as high-profile as music piracy, we don't have as much information about the AVERAGE pirate. Like, are the majority of comic downloaders doing it instead of actually buying comics? Or are they still buying the titles they genuinely enjoy?

Downloading has seriously changed my buying habits, but it certainly hasn't stopped them. When I was a teenager, I was a bit more of a collector, I bought single issues and had boxes upon boxes. Now I tend to wait around for the trades. I do buy the trades of just about everything I really enjoy, partially because I feel a level of responsibility to do so after downloading, but even more so because when I read something I really enjoy, I like to pass it on to my friends, and it's a lot harder to try and explain the p2p systems and viewing programs than it is to just hand them a tpb and say "here, tell me what you think of this".
 
 
Krug
21:21 / 05.03.06
I download some scans yes but I always buy what I like in trades. Exceptions include Grant Morrison and all the indies. Those I buy in singles and trade if I like them.
And since there have been times I've taken and given nothing back (not bought comics I havent liked) I cant judge other people who just take and give nothing back at all. And if I may say so I think neither can anyone who has done the same thing at least once.
 
 
matthew.
13:14 / 06.03.06
Cameron, I'm not going to lie. I bought Seaguy. Because of Grant's writing, and your art. I'm not going to repeat what everybody else said.

I certainly plan to buy FF/Iron Man: Big in Japan. I also plan to buy the whole Seven Soldiers series in TPB.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
13:31 / 06.03.06
Thing is, I'm aware my own conscience isn't entirely clean - I download music, frequently. 8 times out of 10, however, if it's to my liking, I will go out and purchase a copy of the cd, or more recently download a legitimate version from the iTunes music store.
I think the majority of posters here were saying the same thing. If they like it, they'll pick it up.

For example I have no clue who Jason Aaron is. Never read any of his stuff. When The Other Side comes out I'm going to download it first to check it out.

I think the comic book market is in better shape than the music industry as far as piracy goes. I think comic book fans have a more collectable/hobbyist mindset and like to own physical copies of comics or trades.
 
 
matthew.
14:50 / 06.03.06
Also, with something as gigantic as Infinite Crisis, something that's an event close to being a cash grab, is it fair of the company to have me buy every issue that ties into it? Especially if most tie-in issues are somewhat essential? The torrent I got was 4.38 gigs worth of comics. That's over 400 issues, and the Crisis isn't even over. I will no doubt buy the Inifinte Crisis trade, but is it fair to have to buy 20 issues of the Prelude, that doesn't even operate as stand-alone, finished stories.
 
 
matthew.
14:54 / 06.03.06
Double-post here...

In terms of comics I own, I have a lot of GM, including all of the Invisibles, Animal-Man, The Filth, We3, Seaguy, All-Star Supes 1, and I plan to pick of Vinarama (spelling?) later. I also have all of Sin City, a lot of Marvel's Essential lines. I pick up anything by Dan Slott. I own Watchmen, From Hell, Walking Dead, and lots lots more. And that's all TPBs. I haven't mentioned my back issues.

It is a hobbyist mentality. I had to own all of The Invisibles and Animal-Man. I'm picking up every Essential Spider-Man just so I can say I have them all, the issues I mean. I want to have it all: Mwhahahah!
 
 
Sniv
21:15 / 06.03.06
I think the issue here is as to whether digi-comics are being downloaded by people new to comics, or simply by the same old fanboys bypassing their groaning wallets when it comes to getting back issues and non-essential comics. as one of the fanboys, I haven't actually dropped any titles from my pull-list (aside from bad comics that is) thanks to downloading. I still, like matt, follow the writers and artists that I like, and I use downloading primarily to catch up on hard-to-find/expensive comics.

I have certainly bought comics because I read digital versions as well. I got Kill your Boyfriend the day I downloaded it - I saw it in the shop and bought it becuase it was so good. I've also started picking up JSA because of the dcp releases, and may use the downloading as a way of checking out the new OYL titles before I buy them.

However, what about the kids that've never had a real comic? This is the only exposure they have to them. As far as these downloaders are concerned, this is how comics are - they're free and you read them on-screen. Can these people, much like other hard-core downloaders, ever be convinced to go the iTunes route and pay? Or track down a comics store? TBH, I think $2.99 for a comic (especially digital) is pretty high. I think either a low price point (like $1 - 1.50 per new issue, lower for back-issue) or a monthly subscription fee for unlimited (or generously limited) access to all back issues and new releases would be a fairer way to approach online pricing. Still, would you pay for something that you can get for free? As a side note, how many people bittorrent music vs iTunes? The option is there, but how often do you take it?

This is an interestingly thorny issue, and it's nice to hear creators like Cameron give their opinions. This is, after all, a discussion about the future of an inustry everyone here loves. How do we support it?
 
 
trixr4kids
14:57 / 07.03.06
downloading music,comics,software,whatever for free is nothing short of theft...no other way to look at it,I hope you all get your houses robbed ,see how you feel about it then...
 
  

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