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Woman-friendly Barbelith

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14:33 / 29.07.06

Triplets and Alex's Grandma, I thought you were both M-I - am I wrong? It would be more appropriate if so for your responses to be in the companion thread. The other thread exists specifically to allow M-I posters to discuss anything from this one, is there really anything difficult or unclear about that?

Tryphena Absent

15:36 / 29.07.06

Saturn's nod if you are directly addressing a specific person's post than it's not polite to do so in a thread that they can't reply in.

16:06 / 29.07.06

Saturn's nod, I'm not entirely sure why you chose to put your (very detailed) response to remarks I made in the companion thread over here, where I'm not *allowed* to reply, but short of copying the whole of your post to the companion thread (where presumably you didn't want it to appear in the first place,) and then answering it there, (or, alternatively, just saying nothing, which might have been the wiser course of action,) it didn't seem clear how else I should proceed. Ok, this is supposed to be a safe space for FI posters, and I'm more than happy for it to stay that way, but I think to go into such an in-depth critique of a given individual's comments (not that I've a problem with anything you said,) and then cite the safe space when they attempt to reply is a bit, y'know, much.

(If, as seems possible, there's a discussion about this, that kind of concludes my position.)

16:07 / 29.07.06

(Cross-post with Tryphena Sparks there.)

19:54 / 29.07.06

Alex's Grandma, I have no problem with you quoting from my post and writing your responses in the commentary and analysis thread. My frustrated remark above came from my difficulty in seeing why you did not do that. Sorry. Would you maybe explain in the companion thread why it does not seem possible for you to do that? It is not my intention to shut you up at all.

I stated my reasons for writing where I did -

I'm choosing to write in this thread instead of in the other as I am most interested in whether there are other F-I* posters with similar experience than in defending my right to my experience against M-I* posters.

and I tried to indicate that it was not intended to be addressed to you, but just that your post was the precipitating cause of my writing, with this remark. That was obviously not sufficiently clear, and I perhaps would choose to write without quoting directly from a M-I poster in future:

I've quoted a lot from Alex's Grandma' post here, because reading that post crystallised several thoughts for me.

It was not intended as an attack.

My intention was to seize my moment of clarity to write about stuff which has been going on for me the whole time I have been reading/writing on Barbelith. I find all this stuff really difficult - as much as possible I deny even to myself that there's any problem. I wonder if you can make allowances for my clumsiness of expression in the light of my previously declared difficulties?

Tryphena Absent

12:49 / 30.07.06

That's completely fair Saturn but you can't extensively quote someone and expect them to not want to address you. Your feelings were still a response to a specific poster. I'm not criticising your post at all, it's good reading but this thread can't remain a women-only forum if we are actively segregating the men into another thread that we can all respond in... unless equality isn't an aim. Generally asking people: Is equality an aim?

06:46 / 31.07.06

There is now fulsome cross-gender discussion of why SN posted AG's words here and whether she should have done, going on over in the
commentary and discussion thread. Given that MI posters do want to join in that discussion, I wonder whether we could agree to look at issues/challenges/problems of FI-only threads over there?

I say this because in my topsy-turvy world, SN's quoting AG seemed to be a small (if clumsy under duress, as SN herself says in her post immediately above) part of a really interesting post. If other women were interested in the rest of what she said, it would be a shame (I think) if for whatever reason, the rest of the content of the post was lost to our discussion.

17:40 / 02.08.06

I know I've been out for a week and so missed this whole event, but can we consider moving the m-i's comments out of this thread and into the companion thread?

I'm all up for people having the ability to respond but I do not believe their voices need to be in this space.

Here's my big explaination in the open thread so anyone can respond to me here.

I'm very invested in the dialogue that is happening with f-i's here that do not feel their voices are respected on Barbelith and would like to keep this a f-i only thread so they will speak freely.

As to the criticism that exclusion is sexist, I do not believe that arguement holds water when the intended function of an exclusive space is to help strengthen the voice of the f-i's in the inclusive shared space. It is a needed tool without which an imbalance may not be addressed fairly. As a productive measure its purpose is to benefit the greater experience and therefore is worthy of respect and adherence.

Please note once again I have only compassion for those who have felt their voices excluded from this space but ask with respect that they consider how others feel on the greater board.

15:39 / 12.08.06

This thread is ridiculous. I came here to post some things about how I find it uncomfortable when the use of the word 'girl' seems derogatory, but I can't be doing with all this fighting about who can and can't post where.

This is a thread for F-I posters. That means M-I posters should not post in it. This is not rocket surgery.

Come on people, you are not cretins so why do you continue to keep posting in it? How difficult is this?

F-I posters wishing to make specific remarks about M-I posters should do so in the companion thread as that one gives the M-I posters a chance to reply and therefore does not derail this one.

I think we should lock this thread. It's being used incorrectly and isn't benefitting anyone. I am going to propose that this happens and that further conversation takes place in the other companion thread since posters seem completely unable to let this be what it was supposed to be.

I'm going to post more about this over in the comanion thread and also my feelings about the word 'girl'.

18:32 / 12.08.06

I agree and it depresses the shit out of me to say it.

18:37 / 12.08.06

that wasn't a very useful post I'll have to admit.... but I had really hoped that Barbelith could create a space for any group voice that asked for some elbow room to get some work done which would improve the over all dialogue.

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