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ONLY NICE THINGS

16:18 / 29.01.06

Howzabout:

Our rule of thumb is that other members shouldn't feel harrassed, and aggressive statements about types of people who might be represented on the board may be considered direct harrassment of the individuals concerned; as a result, any comments which can be interpreted as hate speech are strongly frowned upon by the forum at large and will be dealt with. How they are dealt with tends to vary according to circumstances, but in extremity, where people repeatedly use offensive terms or make offensive statements and react with aggression to all attempts to get them to moderate their behaviour, people have been and will be banned.

Remember that Barbelith has its own social codes, which may not be the same as the social codes you have with your friends. This is at least in part because this is a very different environment. So, things which might not offend your friends may well be challenged on Barbelith. This includes (but is not limited to) humour based on racism, sexism and homophobia. A good rule to remember is that something being funny doesn't necessarily prevent it from causing offence, especially as other people might not find it funny. Likewise, what may seem to you obvious - that you belong to the group you are joking about, or indeed that some of your best friends do - is not immediately apparent over the Internet.

We genuinely do not care if you think this is 'political correctness gone mad'; if you feel that someone has misinterpreted something you've said to be homophobic or racist or whatever, the best thing you can do is apologise quickly for the offence caused, and try to restate what you were trying to get across in a different way. Agressive claiming of victim status, insults or strident accusations of political correctness, secret racism or censorship are likely to lead at best to a lot of mockery being aimed your way.

In a nutshell:

* Do not troll on the board (See What is a Troll?)
* Do not harass other board members
* Do not make sexist/racist/homophobic comments, even if you believe them to be funny
* Remember that a comment you make is unlikely to seem offensive to you - think about whether it will be offensive to other people
* Don't rot threads
* Don't post angry
* Don't mistake inquiry for insult

16:43 / 29.01.06

I think that's an improvement, particularly the second paragraph.

Unlike sleaze, I really don't see harm in spelling some things out a bit - particularly where Barbelith differs from your average board, and particularly if a user admits that something important wasn't obvious to them.

Tryphena Absent

19:37 / 29.01.06

I think that (punctuation) was really complaining that the original text was a bit too friendly and didn't map on to the response. Perhaps we should lose some of the jovial and be a bit more nuclear in the text?

Tryphena Absent

19:42 / 29.01.06

Or actually maybe just change the bullet points and text around so that the bullets are at the top? That way the basic points would be unavoidable.

21:25 / 29.01.06

Could we add something along the lines of "obviously the above does not apply to comics creators, to whom we extend an unequivocally uncritical welcome"?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:45 / 29.01.06

or famous bloggers, who can espouse right-wing idelogogies aplenty, because nobody will give a shit

That kinda thing, yeah?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:55 / 29.01.06

OK, calmed down a bit, but for explanation of my previous post-

Flux (who is a wonderful writer, don't get me wrong) said that ILM was a better board for music discussion than the Barb because of its "social Darwinism". And I really, really can't believe that nobody else was pissed off by that. I'm sure he didn't mean by it what it READ like he meant by it... but nobody else seems to thinks it's worth arguing. Am I completely insane? Am I "political correctness gone MAAAAD"?

Or does the 'lith REALLY not have a problem with Social Darwinism? Because... if it DOESN'T, then it's not the board I thought it was.

22:02 / 29.01.06

Missed that, Stoatie, and unfamiliar with ILM, so I didn't really understand the comment.

My post refers to the fact that, when it comes to freely expressing dodgy 'ism's, it seems that a sizeable minority of the Comics forum will endlessly defend you on the grounds that they liked your take on Batman. Or your marital partner.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:04 / 29.01.06

And (to get back on-topic) it should be in the Wiki.

"Social Darwinism's okay... go for your life!!!"

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:06 / 29.01.06

Ah, I thought you were talking about jhw.

That whole swingball thing's WAY above my head!!!

22:09 / 29.01.06

Perhaps we should lose some of the jovial and be a bit more nuclear in the text?

I concur. Haus' version is a vast improvement on what is stated in the wiki, but still doesn't really mention the crying and gnashing of teeth.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:10 / 29.01.06

Although I think the principle is the same. And should be, whether a poster on Barbelith or TEH FAMOUS comics writer. You have to be called on your shit, really.

Someone put that in better words before Wiki-ness ensues, though. It'd look a bit poo like that.

22:14 / 29.01.06

... still doesn't really mention the crying and gnashing of teeth.

Possibly because to do in these terms so would be to flippantly minimise the phenomenon, as well as, by implication, locating the 'problem' with those overreacting criers and gnashers of teeth.

Goodness Gracious Meme

22:17 / 29.01.06

Am I completely insane? Am I "political correctness gone MAAAAD"?

Or does the 'lith REALLY not have a problem with Social Darwinism?

Well I raised it, as did you, but seeing as Flux hasn't been back to repond, is there a whole lot more we can do? Let me know if there is, and I'm quite happy to.

Goodness Gracious Meme

22:20 / 29.01.06

by implication, locating the 'problem' with those overreacting criers and gnashers of teeth.

Indeed. Which is what you, punctuation would appear to be trying to do, hence the slightly rough treatment your suggestion initially recieved.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:26 / 29.01.06

GGM- I know you did. I've now taken it to the Barbannoy thread, as nobody else seemed to give a shit!

Tryphena Absent

22:27 / 29.01.06

I'm sure he didn't mean by it what it READ like he meant by it

Bet you a couple of quid he did.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:28 / 29.01.06

(actually, that's a lie, now I come to think of it... Flyboy also responded to it. Sorry, Fly).

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:34 / 29.01.06

Well I raised it, as did you, but seeing as Flux hasn't been back to repond, is there a whole lot more we can do? Let me know if there is, and I'm quite happy to.

See, GGM, I'm more concerned by the fact that nobody else seemed bothered. THAT'S what worries me. A page and a fucking half after that comment, and nobody gives a shit?

It's something of a pisser, really.

22:42 / 29.01.06

Stoatie, I think you maybe ought to expand on this in the Barbannoy thread...

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:47 / 29.01.06

Well, to be honest I don't entirely understand what he meant and I don't really think he does either. At a guess, I imagine he means something like "on ILM people get to be mean to each other about how stupid they are about music and whoever has the biggest beard gets to be king"... However, could we keep this in a different thread, pls?

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:49 / 29.01.06

Oh, and Hiccups, could you possibly cease this high-pitched whining? My eyeglasses just shattered, and I have glass in my eyes.

You don't seem to have any objective here except to make derogatory comments about the reaction of people to your little outburst. Get over it.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:04 / 29.01.06

Now, now, Haus. You know very well that we only express disapproval here to win PC Brownie points. You're just envious because I've almost got enough for my Man-Hating Feminazi badge and you haven't.

Tryphena Absent

23:05 / 29.01.06

Oh just let him whine, so he had a bird in his beard, who cares if he thinks people are gnashing their teeth? It's true. They were. Though I doubt anyone was weeping and it's because they're better people than him. Our only crime is sensitivity to people acting like arrogant fuckers, if (punctuation) doesn't understand why we want to be kind to huge swathes of people who don't deserve insult that's his problem. The modification of the Wiki however is ours so let's crack on.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:30 / 29.01.06

Fine. Brown Owl likes me better than you anyway.

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:45 / 29.01.06

I was hating men when you were still in short jackboots, missy.

02:01 / 30.01.06

Oh, and Hiccups, could you possibly cease this high-pitched whining? My eyeglasses just shattered, and I have glass in my eyes.

You don't seem to have any objective here except to make derogatory comments about the reaction of people to your little outburst. Get over it.

Uh, excuse me? I was not whining, nor was there an "outburst," so I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to.

02:06 / 30.01.06

Oh just let him whine, so he had a bird in his beard, who cares if he thinks people are gnashing their teeth? It's true. They were. Though I doubt anyone was weeping and it's because they're better people than him. Our only crime is sensitivity to people acting like arrogant fuckers, if (punctuation) doesn't understand why we want to be kind to huge swathes of people who don't deserve insult that's his problem. The modification of the Wiki however is ours so let's crack on.

The "gnashing of teeth" comment was stated with a certain amount of irony.

ONLY NICE THINGS

07:06 / 30.01.06

I dio apologise. Clearly I and others miscontrued your tone. Could you explain what the ironic effect you were aiming for is, precisely?

07:46 / 30.01.06

I would have thought if this thread had shown you anything it would be that "irony" is perhaps difficult to transmit in a text only medium. For "irony" we could also read "hilarous non-PC comments that all my friends find funny, and anyway one of them is black".

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:49 / 30.01.06

I'm not entirely sure what irony is supposed to mean here, to be honest. Apparently the original kicking Germaine Greer thing was irony as well, so perhaps this whole thing is a brilliantly sustained ironic comment on how people get snippy on the Internet.

Tryphena Absent

09:45 / 30.01.06

Guys, can we please let him try?

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:57 / 30.01.06

Try what, exactly, Nina? To provide a form of words describing the "crying and gnashing of teeth" one can expect?

Hiccups, in case you're confused about why you're getting this somewhat short shrift: your tone throughout this thread has been defensive, dismissive and essentially that of somebody who really hasn't gotten over being contradicted in the first place. I'm not entirely sure why this is - if you have made your peace with your mistakes and want to enjoy Barbelith, it seems odd to have such a mad-on against one of the key things that make it Barbelith.

The use of "crying" is particularly evocative here - as I mentioned in the thread discussing (originally) Psionicnurse's oh-so-funny joke, one of the standard tactics of the aggrieved young person is to claim that the other person is "crying" about it - because to show emotion is to lose. This tactic was adopted by both Pisonicnurse herself and Cromagnet in her defence. Unfortunately, this being the Internet, it is about is useful a means of discarding somebody's viewpoint as the other favourite of claiming that the person proposing it is fat, spotty or inexperienced in the ways of the real live tiger.

In this case, have a think about your use of these words or phrases:

Political correctness
Free speech
Misconstrued as offensive
Almost painfully socially aware
Highly irate
Jump down their throats and beat them with cudgels
Reactionary militia
Misconstrued (again) as misogynistic
Crying and gnashing of teeth

You are in every case the innocent victim of paramilitary aggression from people apparently out of control of their emotions and acting in a disproportionate fashion. Misconstrue and whine, as it were. They are politically correct, you are exercising freedom of speech. It is very possible that you have internalised your feeelings of persecution to the point that you have no idea that you are doing anything other than providing a dispassionate and wholly objective report on the situation, but these approaches and terminologies are pretty familiar.

Tryphena Absent

09:58 / 30.01.06

Can I just ask a question: how is anyone meant to react in any way but defensively when you talk to them like this? Is he meant to kowtow to you because I fucking wouldn't and neither would anyone with any pride. That puts him in a position where he basically has to go on being a twat.

Tryphena Absent

10:00 / 30.01.06

I think that the moderators who have responded in this thread have been appalling. Sure there's a lot wrong with what (punctuation) has said- why couldn't we be gentler than this? A little explanation and some encouragement would have gone a lot further.

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