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How to fight a dog [PICS]

 
  

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modern maenad
11:46 / 23.01.06
Jack - going purely on statistics several people reading this thread will be survivors of childhood sexual abuse - do you really think joking about it is OK?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
11:49 / 23.01.06
I don't know, I thought the joke about fighting kids would make the Michael Jackson joke ok, I'm just gonna ask to have it deleted. Sorry.
 
 
modern maenad
11:50 / 23.01.06
thanks, and sorry if came across bit holier than thou, am doing a lot of training around this area at moment so radar is on red alert.
 
 
Lurid Archive
12:35 / 23.01.06
I think we've also established that I can call bullshit on that if I want. That is, what is the difference between what is offensive and what you don't like?

The difference as it appears on Barbelith is the number of people that agree with me. If enough people "don't like" a topic enough that they agree it is offensive, something gets done about it. You seem quite close to arguing that nothing should be considered offensive because its all just stuff that some overly sensitive individuals "don't like". We've had that sort of discussion before and the consensus seems to be that Barbelith shouldn't tolerate certain language. It isn't as if the internet is lacking in sites where there are no restrictions on language. Actually, beneath this I am making a distinction between private and public spaces...I'm also a free speech advocate in the public sphere.

More specifically, however, I think you and others are implying that it is illegitimate to find this kind of topic offensive.

I can, I suppose, imagine some kind of need for information on self defence techniques, though I am suspicious of that being used as a cover for the celebration of violent fantasies. This is complicated, since I do concede violent fantasy can be legitimate - say, horror films - but again, I see a difference between public and private. I think that an insistence on absolute free speech in any and all situations is far more oppressive than the attempt to have rules on language in a private forum.

But toksik, are you now going to demonstrate that there is nothing wrong with this thread by indulging in macho violent fantasies about violence against children? Yeah, that'll work.
 
 
Smoothly
13:10 / 23.01.06
New thread here so that this debate doesn’t get in the way of all the dog hurty goodness.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:15 / 23.01.06
Have you thought that maybe people are keeping the argument in thread so that we're not too exposed to the faux Chuck Palahnuik delusions of people who actually think these methods will effectively fight off dogs?
 
 
Smoothly
13:19 / 23.01.06
There are better ways of doing that, I'm sure you'd agree.
 
 
Sekhmet
13:32 / 23.01.06
What a bizarre thread.

You know, several people in my area, mostly children and elderly folks, have been attacked by dogs in the past few years, some of them fatally. Quite recently there was a 76-year-old woman who was mowing the front lawn while her husband was inside watching a football game; a pack of six dogs attacked and killed her. This was while she was on a riding mower in her own front yard, not breaking into someone's home or being chased by police. The dogs were pit bull-Rottweiler mixes and belonged to a neighbor. They weren't fighting dogs, they weren't attack-trained; the neighbor's granchildren used to play with them. No one expected them to get loose and kill someone.

I love dogs; I love my dog in particular, but not all of them are lovely wuffly things. I'm regularly approached by strange dogs when I'm walking mine in the neighborhood, and sometimes they can be aggressive. A lot of people in our area keep pit bulls, German shepherds, chows, and other large breeds that can be trained as attack and guard animals; not all of them are vicious, of course, but most dogs are territorial to some degree, and I get very nervous when I see that one of them is loose and running towards me.

So far, I've managed to get rid of them with a bit of stern yelling and stomping, or their owners have come after them or called them back. However, I don't think it's inconceivable that I might sometime find myself having to defend myself (or my dog, or my child, or someone else's child) from a vicious dog. I'd like to have a better idea of how to do so.

That said, I'd rather find that information somewhere else. It doesn't seem like a very Barbelith-friendly topic... as evidenced by the number of people who find it offensive. Barbelith-at-large is awfully fond of dogs as a rule; surely Tuna Ghost should have anticipated that this would be a controversial thread, although hir initial post isn't offensive IMO.

Would the reception have been different if the attackers in question were sharks, tigers, wolves, or perhaps unspecified "wild animals" rather than dogs?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:35 / 23.01.06
Usually I would but not in this case. I think this thread is too absurd to treat seriously yet I wouldn't want it to remain the altar to machismo that it is. Thus I think patting everyone on the head and giving them lollipops is the best way forward. That and...

 
 
Smoothly
13:40 / 23.01.06
I suggested there was a better way, but of course you wanna go the whole way this time.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:45 / 23.01.06
Never was a quitter.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
13:48 / 23.01.06
Never was a quitter.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:48 / 23.01.06
It must have been dog-fighting, but it's over now.
 
 
gridley
14:50 / 23.01.06
When I was a kid, this really mean dog attacked my collie. I think the mean dog was a German Shepherd or some mix. It just came right into our yard and chomped down on my poor dog's head. My poor peacenik dog just tried to lay down and show the other that there was no competition there over who got to be alpha male, but this dog wouldn't let go. It just kept clenching harder and harder. I of course got pretty hysterical, but was no dog fighter (would that I were!).

I screamed for my older brother who sent me off to try and find the dog's owner. We vaguely knew where it lived. He tried to pull the dog off and I think even punched it a couple times, but to no avail. I found the dog's owner (he was walking around looking for the dog) and he was eventually able to get it to let go. He vaguely apologized, but only in a "Well, these things happen, don't they?" sort of way.

We filed a report, but I don't think they ever did anything about it and the dog went onto attack a couple others in our neighborhood.

My dog was shaken up for quite a while after that and was never comfortable being in the vicinity of other dogs after that, which was really a shame because he used to love to play with other dogs in the park.

I still think about this incident fairly often, because there's a trend in my urban neighborhood for people to get agressive breeds of dog as protection and train them poorly or not at all. And I can see as they walk down the street that the idiots who own them have virtually no control over the dogs.

So I'm actually pretty happy to hear people talking techniques for defense, even though I clearly would never want to use them.
 
 
bitchiekittie
15:15 / 23.01.06
watch out - I'm going to airmail my foster dog's extra-funky smelling poop to some of you.
 
 
HCE
15:21 / 23.01.06


Seize the savage beast by its belly. Beware! It may give you a Look of Melting!
 
 
HCE
15:54 / 23.01.06
However, I don't think it's inconceivable that I might sometime find myself having to defend myself (or my dog, or my child, or someone else's child) from a vicious dog. I'd like to have a better idea of how to do so.


I think if the thread were titled "How to defend yourself from animal attack" and didn't start with stories about kicking dogs in their nuts and ripping out their entrails, it might have gotten a different reception. Fighting a dog is not quite the same as defending yourself from one. Tone, more so than content.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
16:30 / 23.01.06
Been thinking about this all day, but basically, what DH says. Tone, not content.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:35 / 23.01.06
I think it's incumbent upon me to point out also that if it is one's duty as a pet owner or parent to learn how to fight vicious dogs, seeking the advice of people on Barbelith in order to fulfill that duty is, frankly, failing in that duty.
 
 
gridley
16:38 / 23.01.06
Well, in that case, Haus, don't tease us. Tell us where we should go for that information.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:45 / 23.01.06
Well, a self-defence class might be useful - it will help to develop body strength and balance which will no doubt be very useful in any human/canid encounter.
 
 
Hieronymus
17:18 / 23.01.06
Having just seen Grizzly Man, I find this thread hilarious in a kind of peverse way.

How do you fight a dog? Like a bastard. What else beyond that is there to say? There's no special technique. There's no form of canine push hands you should look into mastering, no doggie jeet-kun-do you have to match tit for tat or have to know how to get the best of.


Hanna Barbara characters being the rare exception.

You just use your monkey wits.

(And if it's a police dog, chances are pretty good he has associates who would prefer to see you in handcuffs. That's another big complication)

So I'm not sure what the point of the long, drawn out descriptions of canine evisceration is for. Like a lot of people have pointed out here, it seems kind of... Fight Club silly.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
17:36 / 23.01.06
Haus, clearly Hong Kong Fooey is the projection of violent fantasies, not only about dogs but about Chinamen. Chinadogs. Whatever. Shame on you. Anyway, it has been shown that monkey-wits are no help against dog-jaws. Best to keep a clear head and keep your hands to yourself.

I know we're eager to move on to the turd-polishing portion of the festivities, but I feel that this tiresome debate must be carried just a bit further (by me).

I think you and others are implying that it is illegitimate to find this kind of topic offensive.

Of course not. You are welcome to be offended and to voice your disgust. I'm saying outright that using this sense of offense as an excuse to misrepresent* and silence those people who are trying to have a discussion is... bad. It doesn't take a "consensus" to lock a thread, just a couple of censor-monkeys**. The rationale that has been used in the past to lock threads and ban posters, and disasterously to close membership***, was not that "enough people" were offended, it was that action needed to be taken to protect readers, both real and hypothetical, from harrassment. This strikes me as very dubious logic, but I was outvoted and must satisfy myself with vocal dissent--however, it doesn't even apply here.

On to the turd-polishing:


*Or at least dubiously-represent. I didn't register any of this "macho tone" that others are complaining of.

**Please note, I am not arguing against the moderation system.

***One might argue, I dunno, that our decisions in this regard have led us directly to this pass--having the same argument with the same people about increasingly inane disagreements.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
17:39 / 23.01.06
Whoops! Sorry, Hieronymus!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:11 / 23.01.06
I'm saying outright that using this sense of offense as an excuse to misrepresent

Hah! He says, having claimed that I was Hieronymus! The jade! The slanderer! The gitwizard!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:21 / 23.01.06
The rationale that has been used in the past to lock threads and ban posters, and disasterously to close membership***, was not that "enough people" were offended, it was that action needed to be taken to protect readers, both real and hypothetical, from harrassment.

This is not quite true, incidentally. Threads have been moved to be locked, deleted and otherwise moderated for all sorts of reasons, some of which have been, in my opinion, more or less fuckwitted. I agree entirely that there isn't a good argument for locking or deleting this one - possibly locking if the thread starter was utterly ashamed of it and no longer wanted to be associated with ongoing dog-punching discussion. There is, however, no good argument either for people not registering their unhappiness.
 
 
Lurid Archive
18:29 / 23.01.06
You are welcome to be offended and to voice your disgust. I'm saying outright that using this sense of offense as an excuse to misrepresent* and silence those people who are trying to have a discussion is... bad.

So I'm welcome to voice my disgust, only when I do so this is misrepresentation? Fair enough. Or is the important verb in that second sentence "silence"? (Which I haven't done by any stretch of the imagination, though I have plausibly threatened to take an action that might lead to silencing.) Just to be clear, in case I haven't understood, all you are really saying is that we should never moderate for language, right?

The point for me, Qalyn, is that I quite like Barbelith to be a place where I can be reasonably sure that I won't read certain things. For me, the sorts of things I'd like to exclude are a certain type of glorification of violence, including such violence against animals. You see posting rules as having a different justification, which you object to, but I don't vote for locking or deleting on the basis you outline.

And yes, I do think that these decisions reflect a consensus since moderators tend to respond to opinions and objections voiced to controversial decisions. That isn't ideal, and I'd rather it was more democratic, but I can't help feeling that you don't help your case by voicing objections in jokey-insultey ways ("censor-monkeys") - that makes it harder to take you seriously.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
19:13 / 23.01.06
Guys. Guys. Chill the eff out. Look into his eyes, man.



They will make everything better. Just leave it to him.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
20:23 / 23.01.06
Oh, be quiet, instigator. I am still friends with the censor-monkey.

Lurid, I'm going to back off now, because I can't formulate a response without repeating myself. I think we've made our points.
 
 
ibis the being
20:24 / 23.01.06
I am not a censor-monkey.

The incidence for dog-human attacks, at least in the US, is quite low. There are about 5 million dog bites (to humans) per year, which is about 2% of the population. 800,000 of those require hospitalization. Your time would be better spent devising ways to survive a natural disaster, or better yet, a car accident, but I suppose that wouldn't be as titillating a conversation, would it?

Most people have NO CHANCE of actually physically defending themselves from a dog attack, if you're talking about a medium to large breed dog, which I presume most people here were. Talking about breaking the legs of a dog is so unrealistic that the only purpose to it I can see is to entertain oneself or fantasize about doing it. As I posted earlier, dogs bite MUCH faster than you can move. It sounds like a possibility that some of you have never seen a dog fight - if you had, would you be entertaining the notion that you would stand a chance?

If your dog is being attacked, the safest thing to do is to pull your own dog away BY THE HIPS. Do not attempt to get near either dog's collar, which is very dangerous - even your own dog could bite you severely in the fray. If you live in an area like Sekmet does, where dogs walk around loose, do buy a can of Direct Stop citronella spray, and if there are any leash laws in your town, call Animal Control to have them enforced.

A note about pit bulls - though many are ill-bred and aggressive, they are typically dog aggressive. They were not bred to be human aggressive (yes there is a difference), though some may be systematically abused to spur "protective" behavior against people.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:58 / 23.01.06
800,000 of those require hospitalization

Thanks for that, I was only a bit scared of dogs before I read that figure. I mean, presuming the same people don't get bitten once a year every year and guessing that I might live for 70 years the chances seem quite high.

And that bit with
'no chance' in capitals... yeah, thanks for that.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:06 / 23.01.06
You don't have to run faster than the dog, Nina. Just faster than Petey.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
21:09 / 23.01.06
What if I'm alone. In a field. With a dog chasing me. And no phone to call an ambulance. In a foreign country. And I get rabies?
 
 
Triplets
21:16 / 23.01.06
Rabies if you're lucky.
 
 
grant
21:26 / 23.01.06
800,000 of those require hospitalization

Thanks for that, I was only a bit scared of dogs before I read that figure.


I suppose the people who're killed immediately don't count in the hospitalization figure, either.

The ones they can find, anyway.
 
  

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