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How to fight a dog [PICS]

  
  

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Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
05:09 / 21.01.06
I've just read an Overcompensating comic strip wherein the author claims he once had to fight a dog. "I kicked that dog in the nuts and punched it in the throat. To this day I do not know what that dog's problem was."

I get along great with dogs. Pretty much all domesticated animals, really, especially the common breeds of housecat. I've no desire to physically combat any animal unless it's on a gameshow and I can win cash or other fabulous prizes, or a state-sanctioned match with doctors on hand and experts watching. I would only engage a wild dog in fisticuffs if it threatened me and I had no chance to flee, and no weapon to either frighten it away or just bash it.

Friends of mine have run from police dogs before, and while they claim they've never run faster in their life, they are confident they could have fended it off. I don't believe them; I've seen these dogs, and my sensitivity to their thoughts has informed me that they are amused by these sentiments. I doubt my ability to both run from or fight against one of these dogs. My usual combat manouvers, like eye-gouging and testicle-squeezing (which are for emergency use only) would either have little effect or just make it angry.

I've wrestled a dalmation, but he thought it was just a game and held back. He didn't go hog wild. I could get a pretty good headlock and choke-hold on him, but a bigger, better trained dog? I'm not so sure.

One of my cousins, who claims to have been instructed by the trainers of police dogs, says the best way to end a fight with a dog is to break it's neck. I told him that was pretty fucking obvious, how would I do that is the question. "Let it bite your forearm. Place your other arm over it's head and firmly grasp the elbow of the arm in the dog's mouth and twist very hard." Aside from letting one of these beasts bite you in the arm, I said, it sounds easy. "Yeah, well, you gotta have one of those pad thingies or he might just break your damn arm. Some big dogs can do that."

One of my friends is the son of a moderately high-ranking policeman, and has had experience both running from and witnessing the training of these dogs. His plan if he ever cannot run from one of these animals is downright
gruesome: "I'm gonna let it bite me in the arm, 'cause that's what it's gonna want to do anyway. Once it does that, even if it breaks my arm, I'm gonna worm and wriggle my other hand into it's mouth and down it's throat. Then I'm just gonna--" here he makes swirling, grasping hand movements "--and fuckin' yank that shit out."

I shuddered when he told me this. I don't think that's actually possible, but I know he would try this if he were desperate enough, and if anyone I know could do this it is him.

Anyway: fighting dogs. Can you do it? How would you start? I don't think I'd have a clue.
 
 
Char Aina
06:20 / 21.01.06
there are a few good methods, depending on how fucked up you wanna leave the offending canine and on how well trained ze is.
in most cases you are fucked.
your best option is not not fight.

if you must fight, you wanna be really damn quick.

go for slowing the animal down or rendering hir immobile.
if you are confident you can grab a foreleg in each hand and yank sideways, then go for it. dogs legs break fairly easily if pulled apart, and some folks will even tell you that they can die from such a break. if you can get the right angle and avoid the ankleful of teeth, go for the head kick. you want to break the jaw just behind the teeth, rendering it useless, and you want to do it very quickly.

i hear rumours that sticking your finger up a dog's ass will make it let go of what it is biting, but i dont know how true that is.

i think you're gonna lose. if the dog is fair-sized and has any kind of killer instinct, certainly.
 
 
BlueMeanie
07:32 / 21.01.06

i hear rumours that sticking your finger up a dog's ass will make it let go of what it is biting, but i dont know how true that is.

That's where the off button is.
 
 
modern maenad
07:40 / 21.01.06
sorry guys but this thread is pretty repulsive. Do you seriously feel that you're ever going to need to implement any of these tactics? Considering the amount of animal abuse that goes on in our culture, wouldn't it be more useful to have a thread about what we can do to stop violence against dogs??
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
07:43 / 21.01.06
hear rumours that sticking your finger up a dog's ass will make it let go of what it is biting, but i dont know how true that is.

I've heard that some species of dog, particularly the bulldog, will not release their jaws even at the point of death. But I saw a "World's Funniest Home Videos" style television show that had a whole string of videos of young children goosing dogs (for those unfamiliar with the word "goose", it means "to poke someone's anus") and judging from those dogs' reactions, even if it doesn't release its jaws it will vertically leap at least a foot into the air. I've never seen such a surprised expression on a dog before.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
07:54 / 21.01.06
Do you seriously feel that you're ever going to need to implement any of these tactics?

Yes.

To expand, I should say that there are a number of scenarios that I had thought I would never have to deal with in this lifetime but wound up stuck in that very same situation regardless. And during those times I was very glad to have a plan.

Even if it does involve sticking my finger in a dog's anus.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
08:07 / 21.01.06
While it's biting your arm you can give it kisses and rub it's little belly. It might work.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
08:09 / 21.01.06
Do you seriously feel that you're ever going to need to implement any of these tactics?
I can see a Barbelonian at a protest having a police dog fucking them up. But I'm sure as soon as the ripping out eyeball and/or anus began the cops would shoot them.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
08:16 / 21.01.06
If the dog runs towards you exhibiting aggressive behaviour (growling or barking), stand your ground without sudden movement. Brace yourself and command the dog as if you were its owner: "No!" "Down!" "Sit!" "Stay!" Do this repeatedly. Do not raise your hands in a fight stance prematurely as this may antagonize the dog and you might lose your one chance at stopping the attacking dog through commands.

If the dog is small and presents no danger for your neck area, you may want to try to kick it. A good blow to the nose or to the body will stop most small dogs.

If a large dog attacks, take a fight stance with one leg in front of the other to maximize balance and protect your inner body. If you are athletic, you may want to use your foot as a primary weapon. This response could mean jeopardizing your balance. Should you fall, you lose your height advantage to a dog.

Special note for pit bulls: these dogs can be unusually aggressive. Some experts recommend that the best response to an attacking pit bull is to fall to the ground, roll into a ball with your chin tucked in and cover your face, ears and backs of your neck with your hands. Keep your knees pulled up into your chest. The idea is to play dead and hope that the dog will give up the attack. {Editor's note: we have received many e-mails on this topic. Typical is the following: "When (pit bulls attack) a person or other animal, their first instinct is to grab ... and hold on. If laying down on the ground, there is a higher possibility of the dog biting in to a fatal spot. Standing upright is a much better strategy."}

A large dog may lunge for your throat. Protect this area of your body first and foremost with your arm tucked into your throat as far as you can without pulling back.
Punch the dog on the nose as hard as you can. Twist or pull the dog's ears. The dog's eyes are another soft spot which you should attack if required to defend yourself. Another stregy is to kick the dog in the rib cage. This will wind it and could stun it enough to ward off any more attacks. Yell for help.

If you frequently encounter stray or aggressive dogs, pepper spray or electronic whistles (adjusted at a frequency to cause dog's extreme discomfort) are inexpensive and excellent safeguards against dog attack.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
08:19 / 21.01.06
The above is all from http://www.duhaime.org/Police_station/dog.aspx just a random site I found googling "how fight dog".
 
 
Axolotl
08:28 / 21.01.06
But will there ever be a boy born who can swim faster than a shark? That's what I want to know.
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:30 / 21.01.06
I'm working on it, but the new gene-sequences still aren't taking.
 
 
Char Aina
10:43 / 21.01.06
Considering the amount of animal abuse that goes on in our culture, wouldn't it be more useful to have a thread about what we can do to stop violence against dogs??


why not start it?
seriously.
have a go if you think the topic merits it.
i'd certainly read it and, if i had anything to say, contribute to it.


also,
considering the amount of human abuse that goes on in any culture, wouldnt it be more useful to have a thread about what we can do to stop violence against people than any about martial arts?
and can we have both?

we had a thread once on invading moldova...
shouldnt we, considerate as we are, prefer to discuss safeguarding moldovan shores from invasion? invasions do happen, after all, and eastern europe is no stranger to violent conflict.
 
 
modern maenad
11:21 / 21.01.06
I suppose I'm finding this thread disturbing because in the case of police/army/guard dogs the dogs have been trained to fulfil a role and all this talk of injuring/killing them doesn't seem to acknowledge this. They are not active agents in the sense of having a choice whether to be in that situation, so to treat them as 'fair game' is a bit onesided. Also, from what I know of the dogs being used by various police/special forces, they're mainly trained in scent work, retrieval and at most control and restraint - to bring someone down and keep them there. They are not trained to tear out jugulars or kill (my brother in law spent seven years as a dog handler in UK Navy).

In the rare case of being attacked by stray or wild dogs, then I can see the need to be able to defend oneself, but I get the impression that most 'lithers dont' face this threat on a regular basis. And if this really is the case, why do we need to discuss ways to fight and kill - why not strategies to distract - like chucking big chunks of meat at them???

It just all seems a bit gung ho macho with little consideration for the being at the other end of the equation.
 
 
Papess
11:36 / 21.01.06
but I get the impression that most 'lithers dont' face this threat on a regular basis. And if this really is the case, why do we need to discuss ways to fight and kill - why not strategies to distract - like chucking big chunks of meat at them???

Good thing I carry that spare bit of raw steak in my purse to distract such a reasonable and conscientious critters.
 
 
sleazenation
11:50 / 21.01.06
Far better to confuse it with some kind of logic problem, like Xeno's first paradox...

The dog might jump up to attack, but he'll never quite reach you...
 
 
Char Aina
11:52 / 21.01.06
And if this really is the case, why do we need to discuss ways to fight and kill - why not strategies to distract - like chucking big chunks of meat at them???

we dont.

the thread was started by someone asking how one might go about fighting a hypothetical dog.
i made it clear in my post that how to go about it would depend on how fucked up you wanted to leave the dog and how big a threat it was to you due to its training.

the command voice technique is the most effective(and clearly humane) for dealing with a pet or a stray, but for deadly dogs, deadly or incapacitating force is the only way.
i dont imagine i will fight such a dog very often, but as tuna points out, it would be better to have a plan and not need it.


might i respectfully suggest that you are condemning an attitude you wish to be seen as apart from, rather than those on display?
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
13:04 / 21.01.06
No matter how stupid I know it is, I can never convince myself that a dog is a real threat to me. Maybe I've been friends with too many dogs to subconciously believe they aren't all happy. Also some bemused gamekeeper guys once had to keep me from trying to fight a lion, so I'm probably just an idiot. That lion was definitely asking for it.

It is too bad if you have to defend yourself against a dog (or war elephant) whose only crime is having been trained to attack people or being spooked by a mouse. However if something's trying to kill me it's motivation, while important, becomes secondary to me not dying.

In any event, having spent a lot of time around various cops, martial artists, military guys, farm kids, macho weirdos, etc. I have heard a lot of advice on this subject, and most of it seemed to involve jamming your forearm (or your nightstick) into the dog's mouth so it couldn't bite anything more important, and then lifting it up to attack the underparts, or forcing it back (neither of which might work with a really big dog). Something about how if you are in there far enough there aren't any teeth in the very very back of the dog's mouth so it can't bite as well (this could be total bullshit.) I've heard the part about pulling their legs sideways as well.

My sister's dog, which is 1/4 wolf, likes to be fought on a regular basis in order to redetermine whether or not he is in fact running the household. She usually ends up wrestling him onto his back and biting his throat. However these matches aren't too rough and I suspect he could kick her ass if he really wanted.
 
 
modern maenad
13:06 / 21.01.06
might i respectfully suggest that you are condemning an attitude you wish to be seen as apart from, rather than those on display?

I'm really trying to raise a meta point about the context that this fighting might occur in - my perspective being that I'd like to see consideration of the who/where/why/when etc. of a dog attacking a human. Regarding the attitude that I'm condemning, I have a general dislike for discussions such as the above that objectify animals (e.g. dogs) instead of thinking of them as individuals. And I feel that the attidue on display is one that suggests that violence against dogs is just fine and justifiable (and OK to laugh at) and an acceptable thing to discuss. Really its the lack of an ethical/political context that's bothering me. As I mentioned upthread, if someone was living in a remote area and in real danger of attack from packs of wild dogs, then it would be reasonable to discuss strategies to avoid/deal with the problem. But what's going on here just seems, well, sensationalistic and sadistic. I quote:

if you are confident you can grab a foreleg in each hand and yank sideways, then go for it. dogs legs break fairly easily if pulled apart, and some folks will even tell you that they can die from such a break. if you can get the right angle and avoid the ankleful of teeth, go for the head kick. you want to break the jaw just behind the teeth, rendering it useless, and you want to do it very quickly.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:37 / 21.01.06
This is horrible. Just fucking foul.
 
 
Lurid Archive
13:42 / 21.01.06
modern maenad is absolutely right, and I don't like this thread at all. I'm tempted to propose locking it, but intead I'll leave it for now and hope it doesn't deteriorate.
 
 
charrellz
14:43 / 21.01.06
My friend's dad was out jogging when he was attacked by two pitbulls. He tried the grab-the-legs-and-yank-sideways thing and ended up with two broken hands and lots of stitches. Best method for fighting a dog is don't. Climb a tree or something.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
15:10 / 21.01.06
How'd he break his hands? Did they bite his fists and crush them with their pitbull biting grip?
 
 
charrellz
16:28 / 21.01.06
Did they bite his fists and crush them with their pitbull biting grip?

Yep. Breaking the forelegs doesn't get rid of the big fuck off teeth. Actually bit him while he was breaking the legs, as that required putting his arms in perfect biting range.
 
 
ibis the being
17:32 / 21.01.06
I agree that this thread is repulsive and I skimmed most of it because any talk of hurting dogs just turns my stomach. If a police dog is after you, he is performing a job he was trained to do, and I'm going to guess that you probably did something wrong. How about lie down on the ground and let them cuff you. If you are concerned about feral dogs or off-leash aggressive dogs for some reason, carry a can of Direct Stop. It is a humane dog deterrent (citronella spray).
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
18:33 / 21.01.06
Regarding the attitude that I'm condemning, I have a general dislike for discussions such as the above that objectify animals (e.g. dogs) instead of thinking of them as individuals. And I feel that the attidue on display is one that suggests that violence against dogs is just fine and justifiable (and OK to laugh at) and an acceptable thing to discuss.

I do think of them as individuals. Individuals with sharp teeth that may lunge for my throat.

We are speaking of self-defense here, not randomly assaulting dogs. In such a situation (as self-defense), violence against dogs is both justifiable and acceptable discussion material. If you find it repulsive, and honestly I don't blame you, then don't read it.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:02 / 21.01.06
I'd just like to say I don't really like this thread either.
I'll probably be avoiding it from now on.

BUT... but but but... if you REALLY see them all as individuals, oh you mighty dog-fighters, why do you keep saying "it"? Whether you wanna fight 'em or not, they're living creatures who have a gender. Have some fucking respect.
 
 
Char Aina
21:54 / 21.01.06
uh.
stoatie, read my post?

i have only ever fought two dogs, playing both times. i dont feel that discussing defence techniques necessarily correlates with being a violent sociopath.

i like dogs too, kids.

i also like people, but i feel the urge to know their weaknesses in case they dont like me.



But what's going on here just seems, well, sensationalistic and sadistic. I quote:


if you are confident you can grab a foreleg in each hand and yank sideways, then go for it. dogs legs break fairly easily if pulled apart, and some folks will even tell you that they can die from such a break. if you can get the right angle and avoid the ankleful of teeth, go for the head kick. you want to break the jaw just behind the teeth, rendering it useless, and you want to do it very quickly.


in what way is any of that sensationalist? i have not tried to make the actions described seem any more exciting or glorious, have i?
and in what way is it sadistic? while i describe something quite violent, i dont see myself taking any pleasure in it.
i went pretty light on the lurid adverbs, i reckon.

read it again, this time trying to find where i do either of the things you accuse me of.

i'd also like to hear why you havent started a thread about what we can do to stop violence against dogs and are instead using this one to make the point that you are a good person who likes dogs very much.


If a police dog is after you, he is performing a job he was trained to do, and I'm going to guess that you probably did something wrong. How about lie down on the ground and let them cuff you.

i have to call bullshit on lying down and taking it because a police dog is working for the greater good against my clear wrongs.
a police dog is a police asset, like any other officer or piece of equipment. any police asset can be used unlawfully or unfairly, and dogs are no different.
i'd say take each case on its merits and act accordingly.

if the dog has been bred and trained to be used as a weapon, i am not the one at fault if i defend myself against hir. the person who trained the dog as a weapon is the one who is unfairly objectifying hir, not me.
 
 
The Falcon
22:08 / 21.01.06
I love dogs, but I can't seem to provoke any visceral reaction out myself either. Perhaps I am just a bad person.

Incidentally, and this may be useful when holidaying, to get a crocodile to let go of you, you have to rip it's eye out. The only thing that'll work. Anyone any objections to that?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:10 / 21.01.06
toksik- I did indeed read your post, which I didn't take too much offence to. But I also read all the others.

I'm biased at the mo, so I'll butt out now. But some of you guys better get your dog-fighting techniques ready, cos I'm gonna train my pup to eat dog-haterz!!!
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:15 / 21.01.06
It's like a dog war, you think of them as dirty fighting machines but then you see a photo of Sheena and suddenly... you're just not a dog fighter anymore.
 
 
Char Aina
22:35 / 21.01.06
is sheena bobby murray?
 
 
■
22:46 / 21.01.06
Ultimate dog fighting technique:
Stop running, turn round, drop to your haunches and, in the same voice you'd address a puppy or baby say:
"Good girl/boy, come on, catch the ball, catch it. Awwww. Who's a good girl?"

Not willing to try it myself, but I would guess it's not something they train hounds to deal with, so it might get you the element of surprise... and a fuzzy, slavering, new best friend.
Zhe might end up drinking your blood, but zhe'll WUV you for trying.
 
 
Shrug
22:50 / 21.01.06
I've been bitten a couple of times although never severely. On separate occassions I've either run away or tried to placate the dog by rubbing it and adopting one of those "nice doggy" voices until it let go (if it decided to hold on and shake rather than snap).
I've never been particularly nervous of dogs so I don't think it was ever them sensing my nervousness but when encountering a randomly vicious dog (i.e. not a trained attack dog) is there anything one can do to placate them before they decide to bite?
 
 
The Falcon
22:57 / 21.01.06
Depends. In my experience it's the wee ones you've gotta watch. Only dog ever bit me was a sausage dog; horrible litle thing.
 
  

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