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Exercises

 
  

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Persephone
12:57 / 24.02.06
I have these awesome stretching exercises that I got from a fitness magazine. I mean, I also do yoga and pilates. But these are like "active" stretching exercises? I don't really know what that means. But after I do them, I can just lay my face on my knee & lie there, thinking restful thoughts.
 
 
William Sack
13:03 / 24.02.06
Well I'm looking on improving on getting my face within a foot of my knee. Have you seen the exercises anywhere other than your magazine? Any way of letting me have them Persephone?
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
13:12 / 24.02.06
Still cycling to work in sub-zero temperatures in the name of keeping fit. Today is -7C (-12C with windchill) and snow flurries.

Not only do I do this in the name of keeping fit but I suspect also making sad little cries for attention.

Go on looook aaaaat meeeeeeeeeee, you know you want to.
 
 
illmatic
13:53 / 24.02.06
I've been looking at lot at http://www.maxalding.co.uk the last few days which I find endlessly fascinating.

It's a compilation of oldtime bodybuilding information, and mail order courses, from the days before gyms, all to be done at home without weights. There's also a subsite devoted to old time strong man Eugene Sandow. I love stuff like this. These guys were the template for Flex Mentallo.
 
 
Loomis
13:58 / 24.02.06
Well I'm looking on improving on getting my face within a foot of my knee

Have you considered having a rib removed?
 
 
William Sack
14:04 / 24.02.06
Many a time before 1998.
 
 
Persephone
15:58 / 24.02.06
Sure, I can scan them. I'll do it this weekend.
 
 
Saltation
23:05 / 24.02.06
i just saw this thread. hope you don't mind but an early post also triggered me to respond, and i kinda kept going through a couple more. williamsack&persephone, you're down a bit:

jack fear:
> I am under doctor's orders to hit the gym as often as possible, on account of I got a bum ticker.

if you're in england, a few things your doctor won't have told you:
1/ MUST! take CoEnzyme Q10. (no contraindications with any heart drug (it's even provided on prescription in japan)) medically: reduces chance of 2nd heart attack from ~75% to ~5-10%. it's essentially a part of some foods (primarily red meat) which is used by muscles in metabolising energy and most of the body's supply goes tothe heart, 'cos that's a muscle you kinda want to keep going. but also good for athletes. available any good healthfood shop, ie not holland&barratts

2/ think about: fish oil. also boosts the heart muscle slightly, but more importantly for most people it changes the consistency of your blood, adn the risk of heart attack from normal reasons drops quite dramatically.

3/ consider at some stage that: you can get the same Heart workout in a couple of 45min sessions a week, which is rather less time-onerous than what you're doing now, so less likely to not be done. the key is Intensity. powerlifters doing cardio.tests can shift as much blood and oxygen per minute as marathoners, but their hearts run slower, so are actually under less stress (plus they have far fewer and less debilitating injuries). so moving your workout towards more Intense forms is most likely to benefit you. (e.g. illmatic's shuttleruns are excellent, as would be doing squats with weights) having said that, i don't know what the nature of your heart injury is so can't really say if it's advisable in your particular case.


chad:
> I prefer free weights to machines. I currently bench 160.

!! blimey bloody norah, that's nearly 3 times what i weigh! i currently bench 98, weigh 64. i tip my hat to you, sir/madam/other.
amusingly, i'm more out of shape now than when i was weaker. gym's no substitute for martial arts.


illmatic:
> Ariadne: I'm not sure as to the why's and where's of shuttle runs, I can just feel that they work.

like i said before: it's the Intensi...!
> I might have neglected to mention in my post above that you sprint full out while doing them, as fast as possible.
..ty...
...
yeah, what you're doing.

also good are "wind sprints". essentially, do 8 x 60m sprints. each one as hard as you can. you'll feel like you've done a marathon in 5mins. and as far as your heart's concerned, you will have done. but all with the advantage that you can knock off half way thru if it feels wrong, and that at the end, you're at worst 65m from home. as opposed to broken down with a twisted ankle 11km away. in the rain. it always rains.


william sack:
i can unreservedly recommend bikram chaudury's yoga set, not only for its effects (stemming from its outstanding design) but also for the fact it exactly meets your preferences re non-class : he does (or at least did when i ran across him) extremely clear books which in a very useful style have the "ideal" across the top of each page, then the "reality" along the bottom. and lots of useful little tips therein.
really, really good books for a really, really good exercise regimen.
do him daily (~1hr) for 2 months and you'll be able to lay your body flat along your legs. and your back will sing a sunshiny paean of joy.


persephone:
"active" stretching? like bouncing? if so, be very careful... that way lies injury.
if you want to improve a particular muscle's flexibility, best method is PNF. "proprioreceptive neuromuscular facilitation", to its friends. essentially AFTER A FULL WARM UP!! you stretch that position out as far as you can then back off maybe 10-20%. then clench those muscles you were just stretching, as hard as you can, for a short count, relax momentarily then stretch again. what you're doing is throwing large and consistent "noise" at the golgi organs in your tendons so that a larger percentage of them realise they should switch off when you relax. so your muscles can stretch more consistently as a larger percentage of all the individual muscle strands within the muscle can stretch freely. but i must emphasise you shouldn't do this until you are fully warmed up and limbered up.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
23:45 / 24.02.06
Saltation suggestion-distance-slays Jack Fear with CoEnzyme Q10?
 
 
Ganesh
23:55 / 24.02.06
Isn't that a shampoo?
 
 
Saltation
19:09 / 25.02.06
i've been taking shampoo-supplements all these years!?!


hmm *musing* i guess that would explain why i'm so shiny and full of bounce.
 
 
Ganesh
19:14 / 25.02.06
And look like you've just stepped out of a sal(tati)on.
 
 
illmatic
19:32 / 25.02.06
also good are "wind sprints". essentially, do 8 x 60m sprints. each one as hard as you can.

Woooo ... don't know if I could. What kind of rest break are you allowing between sprints? 30 secs or so? This sounds very similar to the programme linked to, by moi, upthread. My real concern here is buggering up my knees... I'd assume you run more on your toes in sprints so are in less danger here, but they feel a bit "delicate" this week. Annoying!
 
 
gingerbop
20:51 / 25.02.06
Re: stretching-
Active/dynamic stretching is best for warming up (bouncing/ leg-swings etc), as it's prodding your body to wake up, and is not so dangerous as it is generally made out to be. Passive/static stretching is the worst for warming up, as it makes everything sleepy and longer, so for example, it's much easier to twist your ankle after static stretches because the tendons, muscles and ligaments are longer and don't know where to stop. But PNF stretching is definitely best for improving flexibility, and static stretching is fine for cooling down.

I didn't realise Barbelith was as active as it was. What a lot of cyclists. You crazy people.

Personally, I hate running in particular. However, give me a game of rounders (I've never played cricket, but I'd imagine it'd be similarly fun, if less anarchic) and I'll be flying. So for getting off my arse stuff that I actually like doing, that and gymnastics come top. A good 15 minute run where you just keep pelting down the tumble run is so stupendously fun (if not slightly dizzifying), that I don't understand how so many of you can go to the gym and put some serious time into doing mindless reps of things which weren't really that enjoyable the first time round, instead of learning something that, to me, seems so much more interesting and progressive. But each to their own. Crazy people.
 
 
Olulabelle
21:00 / 25.02.06
Persephone, I would also like your active streching exercises if that would be alright.

I have a question. I walk my dog for 20 minutes everyday - and I walk at a good pace; I feel hot and need to take my coat off. I would like to somehow move up to running but running is exhausting! I am strong and stretchy from doing Ashtanga yoga but I don't have any stamina at all. I haven't tried but I bet I couldn't run more than 50 metres without feeling tired. How can I get past the bright red in the face and collapsing stage?

I do have a goal, to be able to cycle to school from home with my son in the summertime. It's about 2.9 miles according to google earth, so I would be cycling 12 miles a day (there, back, there, back). That's quite good isn't it? But do you think 6 miles is too much to expect an 8 year old to cycle?

I can't start cycling yet because our bikes are not fixed. They need overhauling.
 
 
illmatic
21:54 / 25.02.06
Gingerbop: Your thing with gymnastics is much how I feel about martial arts. I like the fact that it's so challenging, so difficult to coordinate. Much more fun than press-ups etc.

Lula: How can I get past the bright red in the face and collapsing stage? It's just persistence, I find the first two times are the worst. If you keep it up beyond this, you start to notice the small improvements which encourage you to stick it out. Run fifty yards, get out of breath, rest, do another fifty. Do it again if you can. Have the next day off (give your muscles a chance to recover), then do it again. Slow increments will get you where you want to be, if you can be arsed to stick with it. Buy proper running shoes though, if it's going to be anything like a regular thing.
 
 
Olulabelle
22:00 / 25.02.06
Foolish question: What actually constitutes 'proper running shoes'? Obviously training shoes; I'm not about to start running in high heels, but what specifically?
 
 
illmatic
22:09 / 25.02.06
You need to go to a specialist running shop, and the staff will give you advice on exactly what you need. Basically, they are specialised training shoes, they'll be designed to compensate for things like pronation (your feet rolling out as you run), extra padding so you don't knacker your knees too much etc. Probably cost you £60-70 quid but well worth it, if you're going to stick with it.

A shudder of horror goes through me everytime I see someone running on *concrete* or asphalt (get on the grass, you berk!) in normal trainers.
 
 
Olulabelle
22:11 / 25.02.06
Ah OK, thank you. Can I run on concrete in running shoes though?
 
 
illmatic
22:12 / 25.02.06
See this article for more information.
 
 
illmatic
22:19 / 25.02.06
I don't know to what degree it's advised or not. Personally, I don't like it - I guess people run marathons in urban areas though, so what do I know.

Runners world also have this beginners schedule, which seems easy enough:

Week 1 Run one min, walk 90 seconds. Repeat eight times. Do three times a week.
* Week 2 Run two mins, walk one min. Repeat seven times. Do three times a week.
* Week 3 Run three mins walk one mins. Repeat six times. Do three times a week.
* Week 4 Run five mins, walk two mins. Repeat four times. Do three times a week.
* Week 5 Run eight mins, walk two mins. Repeat three times. Do three times a week.
* Week 6 Run 12 mins, walk one min. Repeat three times. Do three times a week.
* Week 7 Run 15 mins, walk one min, Run fifteen mins. Do three times a week
* Week 8 Run 30 mins continuously.


and this advice:

# Allow at least a day between runs when you begin.
# If in doubt, slow down. You should be able to hold a conversation while you run. Respecting your body is the best route to progression.
# Walk purposefully, and be strict with your run/walk timings.
# Don’t be afraid to repeat a week, or drop back a week. Everyone’s different.
# Take heart! You will get there!
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
12:00 / 26.02.06
I do have a goal, to be able to cycle to school from home with my son in the summertime. It's about 2.9 miles according to google earth, so I would be cycling 12 miles a day (there, back, there, back). That's quite good isn't it? But do you think 6 miles is too much to expect an 8 year old to cycle?

12 miles a day is a good basic distance for an adult.

6 miles a day in my experience is not excessive for and 8 year old. My old cycling group in London did work with some schools, and still does, that had kids cycling that kind of distance. To the best of my knowledge studies indicate that children who exercise before and after school, even in the form of walking or cycling, tend to perform better academically than those who don't.

However, those 2.9 miles will jump when you factor in traffic and other diversions. 4 still wouldn't be excessive. The key thing here is that the cycling needs to be matched with an appropriate diet and rest/sleep arrangement and don't forget that travel plans will need to be changed on a moments notice in accordance with things like health, severe weather etc.
 
 
Slim
13:49 / 26.02.06
Hey Saltation, how tall are you? 64lbs seems to be a very, very light weight. Especially for someone who works out.
 
 
Mistoffelees
14:06 / 26.02.06
I guess, he meant 64 kg.
 
 
Slim
15:07 / 26.02.06
Curses!
 
 
Saltation
21:00 / 26.02.06
yeah, kilos. sorry, should have said.
aka "weigh 10 stone even, bench 15 and a half-ish"


> > also good are "wind sprints". essentially, do 8 x 60m sprints. each one as hard as you can.
> Woooo ... don't know if I could. What kind of rest break are you allowing between sprints? 30 secs or so?


as long as necessary to get breath back and heartrate back to near normal.
so for your first time, probably about 30 secs after your first run, then a minute after your second, etc.

for most people starting out, by the time you reach your 5th or 6th run, you're lookin' at a rest break of about 3 days.

no matter -- maximum intensity is the maximum you can do on the day.

> This sounds very similar to the programme linked to, by moi, upthread. My real concern here is buggering up my knees... I'd assume you run more on your toes in sprints so are in less danger here, but they feel a bit "delicate" this week. Annoying!

i used to be in the same boat as you (possibly worse, with an exploded knee courtesy of a rock sitting under a knee when i landed upside down after a bike malfunction at speed downhill flipped me over the handlebars), and discovered by accident by dint of being forced in the UK to just do gym exercise, that the previously-avoided Squats are actually SUPERB for your knees. reason: they mostly work your hamstrings and glutes. your knee, like your shoulder, is an unstable joint. so it relies on its supporting muscles to keep it together. improving hamstring strength really helps your knees. (and for martial arts, glute strength (plus qui gong) really helps your balance)

take it gently at first! maybe start with a few sessions of just doing leg raises and hamstring wossnames, to get the legs aware they're about to be stressed muscularly.

but yeah, you always get times where the body sends you clear signals it's not up for something. pay attention to them. your body is your friend.


> Active/dynamic stretching is best for warming up (bouncing/ leg-swings etc), as it's prodding your body to wake up, and is not so dangerous as it is generally made out to be.

this is what is commonly taught in the UK, along with "warming up" on an exercise bike or by jogging.

it is horrifically wrong. MAJOR injury risk, in the sense of gathering stiffness and unwillingness to exercise/move as muscles o-so-gradually clog up with scar tissue. if you're taking it gently as you bounce, you'll be fine for a couple of years, then you'll just give up under the weight of the discomfort. happens every time. every gymnast, runner, and martial artist i've ever come across who's made a practice of dynamic stretching as a warmup has essentially given up their sport less than a decade after they start it because "they're getting too old for it". stiff, sore, weakening, etc.
as opposed to the non-dynamicstretch warmeruppers who just keep on keeping on.

i'm not in any sense suggesting there's no place for dynamic stretching. i do it all the time. but it's a technique i use carefully, and only when i'm half-limbered up and if i have a joint/muscle-collation which is not moving as freely in all directions as it should. in essence, it's a method for applying PNF to that entire muscle-collation without knowing exactly which particular muscle is clogging: you're forcing all the golgi organs to switch on, in the hopes more of them will switch off afterwards.

if you're not warmed up and you're doing any bouncy/"dynamic" stretching : if you're getting within maybe a third of your maximum stretch, or going much past your immediate utterly-comfortable position, you're starting to tear particular muscle cells and hence gradually adding scar tissue to your muscles. no biggy, but it WILL creep up on you over time.


if you're physically cold, go take a hot shower. or sit in the spa if you're in a good gym. then do pushups.

THEN start your "warm-up". ("limber-up" is probably a better way of thinking of it)

but don't bounce-stretch in a warm-up or to add flexibility.

they're good for warm-downs, though.


Lula: what illmatic said. the body adds fitness amazingly fast. and loses it almost as fast, sadly. and Intensity is the way to add fitness, not duration or sweat.


Generally (talking towards Legba's original post):
treat your body as an amazing self-regulating machine, and you/your consciousness as something communicating with it by the demands you put on it. it will respond to what it thinks you're asking it to do.
if you feed it lots of sugar, it will turn into a pudding.
if you jog or bike slowly for hours a day, it will turn into a shape that will be suitable for jogging or biking for hours at a time. think: strong stick. e.g. paula radcliffe.
if you indicate to it that it needs to be able to explosively throw its entire bodyweight around, with no notice, at the highest speed it can, it turns into a shape that most people find very attractive. think: high power-to-weight ratio, flexible. e.g.: ballet dancer (m/f).

(interesting genetic implications, there, by the way.
particularly when you consider that (female;-) dancers give birth almost effortlessly.
and interesting long-term evolutionary/sociological implications if you look at how fat and clothes are used to imitate those shapes.)


you'll note that the bodyshapes most people find most attractive are not the powerlifters or the marathon runners, but rather the martial artists and the ballet dancers. you'll note that neither of the latter need to use weights or put in huge amounts of hours in order to have the body shape they have. critically, though, they exercise in a power-to-weight regime as explosively/acceleratively as possible, and maintain efforts/poses at their very extreme for much longer than most sports.

Intensity

[male sprinters and female triple-jumpers also have phenomenal bodies, but nowadays the professional athletes all tend to also do lots of gymwork as well, so it's a bit more muddled.]
 
 
illmatic
07:06 / 27.02.06
Could someone explain to me exactly what is meant by "dynmaic stretching"? I don't warm up before I jog for instance, just go slow for the first 5 minutes or so. Is this wrong?
 
 
Ariadne
07:53 / 27.02.06
Lula, that Runner's World plan really does work. I did it - and went from really struggling to keep going for two minutes to being able to run happily for half an hour. I still get a red face, but less so!

I don't run at the moment, though this is making me want to go out for one! It tends to hurt me - I get sore knees, or shin splints. I know that means I'm not running/ stretching right but I've struggled with it a bit, so at the moment I really just cycle.
 
 
Loomis
07:58 / 27.02.06
I followed that exact plan that Illmatic posted and it was brilliant. Before, I struggled to run 1-2 minutes and would be watching the seconds tick over as I ran, praying to reach the end of the minute. But it started working, and then after about four weeks my knees packed in as I wasn't wearing proper running shoes. I could barely walk without severe pain but all I had to do was go to the running shop, get fitted for decent shoes and then had to start the routine from the beginning again.

I stuck with it and now I can run comfortably for an hour. The good thing about this schedule is that as long as you don't try to run too fast, you shouldbe able to make it right through without killing yourself. The idea is to do it all comfortably and just cruise along, which is how running should be on the whole.

What I like about running is that the only gear you need is a pair of shoes, and you don't need to go to a gym or travel anywhere. You just go out your front door and start running.
 
 
illmatic
10:10 / 09.04.06
Bumping this one - anyone into skipping? Been doing it as a way of keeping my CV fitness up without the impact on my knees that the sprinting has? Anyone else? Any routines?

Also, new job has a gym - so will be finding all kinds of new and creative ways of injuring myself in the not too distant. Suggestions welcome!
 
 
illmatic
13:44 / 09.04.06
Now, I quite clearly have heard Flyboy say that he's joining a gym. Perhaps I could talk him into joining me for training on this?

Fly, your house, half past eight Saturday. I'll bring the lucozade.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
14:04 / 09.04.06
I try to get to the gym six days a week. If I miss a day, I'll make it up on Sunday. Basically, Cardio three times a week (30 minutes on the LifeCycle); and some free weights daily. This I do in a split routine: chest, triceps; biceps, lats, shoulders; lower body. I do manage to do about 7-10 minutes ab work daily on a decline bench. I've never used a trainer, though I can see how they're useful: you can't push yourself to the limit all the time.

At home, I do a brief early A.M. yoga routine: Sun Salutation just to warm up; Eagle and counter-pose to reinforce balance; followed by the gist of the routine: forward-bend; spinal-twist; plough; shoulderstand; candle posture; headstand; with appropriate counter-poses. It takes about 20 minutes.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:07 / 09.04.06
Now, I quite clearly have heard Flyboy say that he's joining a gym.

He's not lying you know. I heard that too!
 
 
All Acting Regiment
18:16 / 09.04.06
Just finalising renting that should give me the option of walking 1.71 miles to, and then 1.71 miles from Uni. This sound like a good exercise? It'd be about four days a week
 
 
Char Aina
18:52 / 09.04.06
i'd say so.
it's certainly better than not doingit.

i walk to work these days too.
it's about three quarters of an hour there, and i usually do stuff on the way back, maybe taking transport if appropriate.
what makes it great is taking music and taking my time.
i walk it in an hour, sometimes taking differing routes. that takes the pressure of time off, and it makes the walk a constructive part of my day rather than something to get through.
if there's anything pretty around your walk, take a detour
and take something to listen to.
albums, radio, podcasts, whatever.

it makes the whole thing more fun, i reckon.
 
  

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