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Return of the New Universe

 
  

Page: (1)23

 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
03:06 / 09.12.05
Ellis's new project has a working title of "Newuniversal," and it involves, as you might imagine, the New Universe. "I'm going to be doing many terrible things with the old New Universe books - clean stuff, as if the books had never been published before, so I won't be beholden to any of the older work," said Ellis, who will essentially be rebooting the universe.

plus: Wikipedia entry on New Universe.

for a writer that likes SciFi Pulp like Ellis this will be quite a thrill, I suppose. very fond memories of the New Universe here, but it may be my Memory Mechanism working in favor of the comics again.
 
 
A
04:32 / 09.12.05
I guess KICKERS, Inc. will actually kick people's spines out now. Cool.
 
 
Mark Parsons
04:54 / 09.12.05
While I have zero nostalgia for the NU, the ldea of watching what Ellis might do with a free hand is appealing. If anybody can make Kickers, Inc or whatever obscure book interesting, it's him.

Were any of the books good?
 
 
This Sunday
05:33 / 09.12.05
With my nostalgia for the New U., specifically DP7 and Nightmask, I am looking forward quite a bit to what Ellis might be able and willing to do with the basic set-ups, characters, and atmospherics.
I never, quality of certain books aside, understood why these didn't hit a bit more with a bigger audience.
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
06:05 / 09.12.05
No.
God, no.
 
 
sleazenation
10:30 / 09.12.05
the ldea of watching what Ellis might do with a free hand is appealing.

I'd argue that Ellis has really been opperating with a pretty free hand for at least five years now. Further, I'd suggest that in that time much of his work has fallen victim to his own excesses. I'd much rather see his hand steadied by an sympathetic editor.
 
 
sleazenation
10:32 / 09.12.05
By the by, has Ellis's run on Iron Man come to a conclusion yet?
 
 
Mario
10:58 / 09.12.05
Here's the thing. Most writers, when given a retro project like this, talk about how they want to tell new stories without losing what made it popular in the first place.

Ellis, OTOH, says "I'm going to be doing many terrible things with the old New Universe books..." and "[I've] always wanted to take an old, forgotten franchise and 'mess with it'."

Seriously, this sounds like he wants to date rape the New Universe. The way I see it, the only good news for fans of the old books is that it probably won't come out on schedule.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:13 / 09.12.05
Most writers, when given a retro project like this, talk about how they want to tell new stories without losing what made it popular in the first place

1. And that's why corporate franchise comics are now so hermetic and impenetrable to novice readers, and sell only to a dwindling audience of obsessives and retards.

2. The New Universe was never popular.

Ellis, I imagine, isn't interested in writing for "fans of the old books" (assuming such creatures even exist), but for the same middlebrow science-fiction, bookstore TPB crowd that has brought him his success to date—people who read comics, but would never call themselves "comics fans."

For Warren Ellis to suddenly start writing for a fanboy audience—or, more risible yet, for a New Universe fanboy audience—would be a huge step backwards, commercially and artistically.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
12:15 / 09.12.05
I'd much rather see his hand steadied by a sympathetic editor

And I'd much rather see his arse being spanked!!!
 
 
Alex's Grandma
12:26 / 09.12.05
By a... by a 'sympathetic editor,' obviously.

Yes, by one of those.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
12:55 / 09.12.05
Seriously, this sounds like he wants to date rape the New Universe. The way I see it, the only good news for fans of the old books is that it probably won't come out on schedule

that's a bit mean. IRON MAN and PLANETARY, for instance, are late because the artists are much slower than the editors figured [in the 2nd case Cassaday was busy with ASTONISHING X-MEN]...

STARBRAND was cool then, sort of like a "realistic" Green Lantern. I also liked DP7, more or less like an X-MEN TV show. there was actually a short-lived series that reminded me of DP7 [can't bring the name up... it had a frozem nan/yeti on it], as was a movie with Dennis Quaid that was so much like NIGHTMASK.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:21 / 09.12.05
haahahahahahahaha. This will be awesome. Looking forward to Ellis recreating Marvel's failed universe.

>> I guess KICKERS, Inc. will actually kick people's spines out now. Cool.

Best post ever!

Also, let's just not forget that D.P. 7 stood for "7 Displaced Persons." Apropo of nothing. I just always thought "Displaced Persons" being part of an acronym of a title of a comic book was strange, bizarre and hilarious. Maybe Ellis' displaced persons will REALLY be the most out-there, displaced, counter-cultural guys you could ever imagine.
 
 
Mario
14:04 / 09.12.05
I'm just tired of Ellis's standard approach, which seems to be to tear apart what went before, and then use his pet stock characters to talk about whatever he read in Wired that week.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:24 / 09.12.05
or was it "Displaced Paranormals"? Hmm...I forget.
 
 
Jack Fear
15:20 / 09.12.05
I'm just tired of Ellis's standard approach, which seems to be to tear apart what went before, and then use his pet stock characters to talk about whatever he read in Wired that week.

As noted above: he's not writing the books for the likes of you.
 
 
This Sunday
15:36 / 09.12.05
It was 'Displaces Paranormals' and they're never actually called that in the book. Strangely, there's very little affected in the way of sevens, in the book, with three becoming dominant. Okeh, most character interactions involve threes, anyway, but the main cast were alternately, Test Group 3, Therapy Group C, et cetera.
That series had a lot of willingness to make its protagonists have actual actual failings - not the Peter Parker style failings, but... the doctor had some racist underpinnings, Dave Landers, the giant cheese-packer, had this really sad hero-complex and ended up with a totally codependant paranoid. The whole "Let's steal a Greyhound Bus and rob McDonalds restaurants across the state," thing, followed by a CIA training, fight a presidential candidate, let's go see the giant smouldering crater of madness that used to be a city, which every sensible human being is fleeing from at fullspeed," just goes to show it could've been 'Dysfunctional Persons' as well as 'Displaced Paranormals'.
I think Ellis can turn out some great work from the raw source material. Even just sticking to the basic concept of superpowers in a non-superhero world. What was funny and kinda telling of the authors, with the original New Uni. was that nearly everyone sort of secretly wanted to be a superhero. Nightmask dude dressed his dreamself as one. Starband and the armored soldier had the basic tropes down, DP7 had a succession of aliases and costuming, and there was that Captain Manhattan who clearly was just totally jazzed to put on tights and a cape and do the crimefighting thing. Because, everyone who says, if there were mad superpowers in the world today, no one would put on a costume and fight crime... is full of shit. Everyone might not - a whole lot of people might not - but, you know there are people who would, who would love it and would do it.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:17 / 09.12.05
See, I don’t know if I buy that.

That is: I don’t know how much of that stuff was conscious auctorial intent, and how of it was—well, Marvel in the 1980s.

The New Universe stands, for me, as a testimony to wasted potential—and as a monument to the shortcomings of the top-down, editor-driven creative process in place at the Big Two. New Universe was wholly Jim Shooter’s baby. He wanted to do an SF-style “superhumans in a realistic world” line, and that was the mandate handed down to the creative teams from on high. But these were Marvel journeymen, and although they were very good at their jobs, their skills lay primarily within the peculiar demands of Marvel Universe storytelling.

New Universe ultimately failed on an aesthetic level because the hearts of the creators simply weren’t in it. Guys who came up drawing Doombots and Ultimate Nullifiers and the moons of Zenn-La found themselves stuck drawing an endless succession of flannel shirts, cop cars, and Midwestern landscapes. You could see it chafing. You could see it in the way that Paul Ryan kept contriving to draw the cast of DP7 in color-coded spandex workout gear, or to reduce their wardrobes to a single set of clothes—a costume, a uniform—and to shoehorn in more fight scenes. You had guys who came up writing grand cosmos-spanning sagas of valor and destruction stuck writing about failing marriages and abusive parents, and you could see them pushing against it—giving everybody a codename within two issues, piling on the over-the-top soap opera plot twists and reversals, retreating to familiar territory (bringing on the CIA recruiters and turn DP7 into a superhero-team book!), culminating in the asinine (and borderline racist, IIRC) Pitt/Draft/War trilogy that brought the whole sorry enterprise to a close. By the time Captain Manhattan rolled around, in his ludicrous blue-and-orange cape ensemble, you could feel the talent throwing up their hands and saying, Thank God, let’s dispense with all the pretense and get back to what we do best.

It probably didn’t help that the books were being promoted like, and to the same audience as, standard Marvel Universe books.

It’s kind of a shame, because there really was potential there. NIGHTMASK in particular could have been an interesting little book, a bridge between the Mike Fleischer and Neil Gaiman SANDMAN concepts, but nothing came of it but lame superheroics. DP7 was probably the best of them—it had some interesting and likable characters, an intriguing proto-X-FILES feel, and some squicky moments of what the kids today call “body horror”—but it was insanely overwritten and too often it simply drifted. There was always an undertow, a feeling that the creators didn’t fully believe in the material.
 
 
eddie thirteen
17:05 / 09.12.05
"I'm just tired of Ellis's standard approach, which seems to be to tear apart what went before, and then use his pet stock characters to talk about whatever he read in Wired that week."

And Mario nails it in one. Can't forget the smoking and the use of the word "bastard," though. Yawn.
 
 
Mario
17:42 / 09.12.05
I figured the "stock character" bit covered that. And the drinking.
 
 
sleazenation
17:50 / 09.12.05
And yes, to this extent I'd argue that Ellis IS writing for a fanboy audience, not fanboys of the New Universe tho, (if such people exist), but fanboys of 'Warren Ellis comics', and the writer's public persona.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
18:15 / 09.12.05
I was kind of curious, having not read anything by Ellis in the last 6 or 7 years, whether he'd grown any as a writer. But I guess the answer is no?

Oh, well.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:50 / 09.12.05
I'd argue that Ellis IS writing for a fanboy audience, not fanboys of the New Universe tho, (if such people exist), but fanboys of 'Warren Ellis comics', and the writer's public persona.

Did I not say as much?

Do you see "Ellis fanboys" (and girls: he commands an inexplicably large female following) as a subset of "comics fandom" as a whole, or as an overlapping but distinct set, Venn-diagram stylee? Your tone seems to suggest the former: the evidence tends to suggest the latter.
 
 
sleazenation
20:14 / 09.12.05
Are those two things mutually exclusive?
 
 
Jack Fear
20:44 / 09.12.05
Um. Yes. No. Wait...

we2

or this...

we1

?

The two models are, obviously, mutually exclusive. But "Ellis fan" and "comics fan," equally obviously, are not. The contention is whether or not Ellis in fact, as he claims, draws a significant portion of his audience from outside the realms of "comics fandom" proper.

Do you believe this to be true?
 
 
sleazenation
21:52 / 09.12.05
Well,

Firstly Ellis is in a better position to observe who his fans are than I am, so maybe he is pulling in readers who don't really read comics, but my experience has been that most of the people I know who are especially fans of Ellis' comics read other comics as well. They buy their comics and graphic novels from comic shops AND book shops. Most of them read other comics, but tend to be more 'Writer' orientated. So they read other comics, but not many comics - they would appear in the part of the Venn diagram inside the comics fan community, the area of the diagram that lies outside of the comics fan community may well exist, but I've not experienced much evidence of it.

I'd say that a better example of attracting readers from outside comics fandom would be Jhoenen Vasquez fans who buy their comics from Hot Topic rather than from comic shops.
 
 
eddie thirteen
00:52 / 10.12.05
I think it's possible -- although I have no evidence to support it -- that stuff like Transmet may have drawn a non-typically-comics-fanboy audience, although I can't imagine it drew in anyone who would not normally buy comics *evar.* It's non-superhero work, it's available in lots of mainstream bookstores, it's been favorably reviewed in mainstream media, and there's no need to familiarize oneself with eleventy-bajillion years of continuity to "get it." There's a big audience for comics like that. Is that an audience exclusively interested in Ellis? I wouldn't be surprised if he thought so.....

That said, I'm guessing most of that audience has no interest in something like Ellis' Iron Man. Those that are may not read any other mainstream superhero books, which -- if that's what Ellis is claiming -- seems a saner and much less egomaniacal claim, largely because it's kinda plausible.

In my experience, the only comics that have ever sucked in people who don't normally read comics (evar) -- and who don't subsequently display any interest in reading any other comics -- are, for better or worse, the Sandman trades.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
02:20 / 10.12.05
Jack, you have very feminine handwriting.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
02:23 / 10.12.05
I think it's wonderful, by the way, that the House of Ideas has found still another way to avoid creating anything new. I think it's awesome the way they're totally committed to sipping at the same ook for another generation.

And I loved the New Universe.
 
 
LDones
02:37 / 10.12.05
Mr. Fear also handwrites in precise vector with TrueType Technologies made to ape the charms of primitive hyoo-mon scribblings.

He is an android from beyond the stars, like Richard Keel in The Human Duplicators.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
04:48 / 10.12.05
I wanted to keep my foot in that half/two-thirds of the overall direct market that doesn't order my other work. And I wanted one of those old-style writing challenges that I hadn't really done before -- taking an old fucked-up franchise and monkeying around inside it.

there you have it. that's from the retailer phone conference about newuniversal and NEXTWAVE [Comicon's Pulse has the full transcript]. Ellis brings some [few?] readers from his net audience to Marvel, who could have put anyone in those books that they would sell anyway. same works for any of their company properties.

BUT Ellis has long seem to be very aware that some of the Marvel audience, unaware of his creator-owned work, go after "what this guy I I came across has already done" and that slicky first TRANSMET collection gets a mini-sales boost at Amazon or something. simple attention-guiding techniques. plus, Marvel pays well and he - no matter how ashamed to admit it sometimes - seems to be having a good time.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:51 / 10.12.05
His Bad Signal post puts it differently:

In summer 2006, I'm going to be launching an ongoing title at Marvel called newuniversal. No capital N, no capital U. We refer to it in-house as NU -- and I might have called it NU, if it didn't always suggest nu-metal to me.

The central concept, these days, also looks kind of generic. Wild Cards did it, RISING STARS did it, etc etc. Something called The White Event occurs, and afterwards a handful of people are found to have been made superhuman. So far so blah. But, in looking at this stuff on a webpage one night, it occurred to me that that's not what happened. What actually happened was that
there was this huge astronomical event where the skies went white all over the world for a minute, and the aftermath was that the laws of physics had been changed.

There's a sf book by a writer called Vernor Vinge where the laws of physics are radically different depending on which part of the galaxy you're in. Conventional physics' dirty little secret is that the speed of light appears to
fluctuate.

There is, as I say, a whole library of science fiction about superhumanity. These are not superhero novels. Some lean closer than others, of course -- Zelazny and Saberhagen's COILS comes to mind, and SLAN was very clearly a precedent to the X-Men. But there's a lot more that speaks to, if you like, the superhuman condition. Melding that with the notion that suddenly the laws of
physics can go and stay slightly nuts... In one six-hour session, I generated a bunch of notes about how and why this could happen, with some ideas from some old abandoned projects of mine (from the Loose Ideas folder) fitting
themselves into it...

Sure, it's not exactly cut from whole cloth. Like I said, it's a writing challenge. Blows the cobwebs out a bit. Makes you focus on the craft a bit. Sometimes it's worth sitting down and thinking, what does make a Marvel character work?
(Answer: tragedy.)


So there you have it. Sounds less like the New Universe than starting from the same point, a universe with no superheroes in it. The other important point at the moment is that Ellis manages to make it sound like it's going to be really awful, but maybe that's just his headcold talking.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:04 / 10.12.05
Jack, you have very feminine handwriting.

Download this, and so too may you.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
12:20 / 10.12.05
I think Justin Timberlake should put out an album of John lennon covers.
 
 
eddie thirteen
12:26 / 10.12.05
Sometimes it's worth sitting down and thinking, how does Warren Ellis keep getting work?
 
  

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