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Commercialism, Christmas, and the jerks who make the obvious connection

 
  

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matthew.
15:45 / 01.12.05
Hokay. So when I was but a lowly teen, I was snotty and annoying (arguably I haven't changed). I went through the whole AdBusters and the No Logo phase of my development where we have to shit all over the existing system of capitalism and commericialism. And during this inevitable phase, I became an "activist" which is to say that I scoffed at people who wore brand names, I made fun of people who had brand loyalty and etc. Also during this phase, I became anti-Christmas because of numerous factors including the fact that I was agnostic, my mother athiest and my father generic Christian. As well, I felt that Christmas had "turned into" a holiday all about the almighty dollar. I perceived that Christmas was "becoming" too commercial. It had "lost" its religious aspects. I tried to get my high school to recognize other religious holidays, including Ramadan (as if I knew anything about it) and Yom Kippur (same thing as the other item).

Now that I'm in a liberal arts university, I am completely immersed in a world of anti-capitalism, anti-globalization, anti-corporations, and anti-establishment. The status quo at my uni is to protest everything but ribbon campaigns. I grew weary of it. I wasn't interested in the fact that capitalism was destroying the world. I wasn't interested in the Iraq-American war (and I admit, I really should be interested).

I'm annoyed by my university community (that's anti-capitalist; I make no claims about the overarching behaviours and beliefs of the whole community) and it's unfailing anti-capitalist stance. I'm annoyed by people who tell me that Christmas is too commercial, as if this is a new thing. I'm annoyed by people who spout rhetoric saying that we only buy things because the corporations want to make money. Blah, blah, fucking blah.

Is it a cliche to say that Christmas is too commercial? Is it something other people encounter in their lives?

To be clear, our family "celebrates" Christmas in that we use it as an excuse to get the whole family together, have dinner, exchange small gifts, and generally just have a good time and a rest. As well, it's perfectly cool with me to be anti-capitalist, anti-globalization, etc. I don't know enough about the technical, philosophical, ethical implications of it all to make judgements. I just use my uni as an example, but I'm sure you know someone who shits all over Christmas.

Has it become a cliche to shit all over Christmas? Do you groan when somebody says the holidays have become "Crass-mas"? Is someone a moron for pointing out that Christmas is all about money? Is that even true?

(Also, I get annoyed by those smartie-pants who tell me with a wink that the tradition of the tree is a "pagan" tradition. Who gives a shit, pal?)
 
 
Persephone
16:02 / 01.12.05
Well, I think it's a stage in somebody's thinking. Examined is a step up from unexamined, yes? But then what's the next step? I think you would want to continue to progress in your thinking ...but then, some people don't. Some people get settled in somewhere & never get up again. Some people go backwards. It's less bad to me if this is a youngish person just making these discoveries --versus, say, some aging hipster. Then again, I can't say that I'd hang out with the youngish person. I just try to pay attention to my own thinking & keep pushing through, you know?
 
 
Jack Fear
16:29 / 01.12.05
I'll repeat here what I said in this similar thread: There are more important things than being right.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
18:26 / 01.12.05
You seem to be conflating two groups, here, Matt: you're putting those people who are lucky enough to have an awareness of how the world works, recognise the bad and want to make it good, in the same boat as those who self-identify as "enlightened" as a way of dealing with their self esteem problems.

That's pretty, uh, sucky.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
19:12 / 01.12.05
I loves teh Christmas. The commercialism doesn't really bother me. I like all the decorations at the malls, santa hats on everybody, christmas music playing everywhere, the santas on corners ringing bells, drinking, and robbing liquor stores.

I also appreciate the fact that many people are making tons of cash from it, and can't imagine that fact somehow having a dampening effect on the christmas spirit. To me, it only makes christmas bigger and more real. It's only all about money if you let it.
 
 
P. Horus Rhacoid
20:05 / 01.12.05
I went through a vaguely Christmas-hating phase awhile ago, but I've gotten over it. I mean, different people get different things out of it. I don't hate on my dad because it's a meaningful religious experience for him and not for me, you know? If stores in the mall want to start hyping Christmas in mid-October, let them. I avoid the mall anyway, it's not like they're forcing Santa Claus into my home*. It's the same with commercials: I hate them anyway and I usually mute the fuckers, 'Jingle Bells' isn't going to make a difference. I guess rampant commercialization bothers me a little bit, but whatever- and I'm not going to dislike the day because of what some people are doing with it. You get out of the holiday what you want to. This year for me, that happens to be time with my for-the-most-part non-dysfunctional family and my criminally cute dog, all of whom I've seen for a total of about two weeks in the past year. Being home for Christmas means I get to catch up with my friends from high school and get the lovely nostalgic feeling that comes now when I see the town I grew up in. I'm not above a little bit of greed, so I'm happy I'll be getting stuff. I'll be equally happy to give it, too, assuming I can figure things out on time this year (I am notoriously bad at this).

By the way Matt, I sympathize with you about universities. Though for the most part I identify with them, my sympathy for super-extreme liberals has dwindled significantly since going to school. Knee-jerk reactions in any direction annoy me. Sounds like you have it worse than me, though.

*I admit I would probably loathe Christmas if I worked in retail.
 
 
Mistoffelees
20:18 / 01.12.05
People who moan about christmas being too commercialized can be annoying. Especially if they complain about those "christmas" sweets being sold months in advance. They complain not rationally at all, which bothers me even more.

For example, they say, it doesn´t taste good, if it´s still autumn. What? I would eat this stuff even in summer. I always shut them up by asking, if people at jesus´ time were eating those sweets. No, they weren´t, of course. Those sweets themselves and their connection to christmas is a commercialization in itself.

So in four weeks, it´ll be over. I´ll have to hoard those sweets like the ice age squirrel, and when they´re eaten, I have to wait until it´s september again.

So, concerning christmas sweets, christmas is not commercialized enough for me yet.
 
 
PatrickMM
01:36 / 02.12.05
The thing that bothers me is that the 'holiday blues' now seem to be such an accepted thing that it's like Christmas has become this ordeal for people, depressing everyone when they realize how empty their lives are and driving up suicide rates. So, the fact that other people are happy has caused people who aren't happy to become further depressed and thus the 'holiday blues' are constantly talked about.

And about 'Crass-mas,' when I was younger, my parents used to have all these Christmas decorations from the 60s and 70s and these things were definitely not at all tasteful or connected to religion. So, this is not a new thing. The melted together beads to make a plastic Rudolph of the 60s is no worse than the giant inflatable Snowman on the lawn of today.
 
 
Saint Keggers
02:31 / 02.12.05
Yeah, I used to think Christmas was overly commercial and crass and deplorable... but whenever Linus comes out on stage to enlighten Charlie Brown I realise it's, like most things, only what I'm willing to let them get away with. I walk through stores and see them getting their x-mas funk on. Its them. Not me. Christmas is family, friends and the true meaning of the Christian religion: Smarten the hell up and see how great it is being nice to one another!

And every year Snoopy dances on the piano and the Grinche's heart grows.
 
 
matthew.
04:38 / 02.12.05
Legba Rex: you're putting those people who are lucky enough to have an awareness of how the world works, recognise the bad and want to make it good, in the same boat as those who self-identify as "enlightened" as a way of dealing with their self esteem problems.

I have yet to meet a real meatperson who is "aware" of how the world works. Every other slab of meat I've met is "enlightened" to the point of rancid arrogance.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
04:41 / 02.12.05
At the risk of sounding unseasonably dreadful, I'm going to be spending this Christmas killing ciminal scum on Punisher on PS2.

I'd suggest that everyone else does the same.

Those mafiosi, those yakuza... their minds seem to float away like small birds, in the wintertime, dappling the paintwork.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
04:42 / 02.12.05
With their blood.
 
 
matthew.
04:45 / 02.12.05
PatrickMM: The thing that bothers me is that the 'holiday blues' now seem to be such an accepted thing that it's like Christmas has become this ordeal for people, depressing everyone when they realize how empty their lives are and driving up suicide rates.

Suicide goes up during the holidays? This is true? Then Christmas is far more serious "problem" that I first assumed. I can completely understand why people would become depressed during this three month (or more) ordeal; there's the constant shopping, the spending of money, the dysfunctional families, the awkward office parties, etc, etc, etc. Alternatively, someone could become depressed because they lack all of the aforementioned.

That's why I have this duality about the hatred of Christmas -> I hate the fact that it makes people into sheep, and I hate the fact that people have to make it worse by mentioning this constantly. I hate Christmas because of people hating Christmas. Sometimes I wish I was just a spaghetti monster floating in Planck space, away from it all....
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
05:09 / 02.12.05
I hate the fact that it makes people into sheep, and I hate the fact that people have to make it worse by mentioning this constantly

What, seriously? I've heard plenty of reasons not to like Christmas, but this is the first time I've heard someone complaining about how Christmas "makes people into sheep". I'll admit I'm pretty into Christmas compared to the other holidays, and might have a blind spot, but that still sounds weird. Do you hate other holidays for the same reason?
 
 
matthew.
05:18 / 02.12.05
Turns people into sheep - translation/clarification: turns people into mindless zombies buying when and what the corporations tell them to buy. They go where the big companies tell them where to go.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
05:30 / 02.12.05
I don't know where to get sailboat/sailing related shit for my dad, but I bet I can find something at the mall between 9-am and 9-pm. Now come closer and let me knaw on your skull a bit. I'll promise I'll only eat the part of your brain that hates christmas, Scrooge McDuck.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:14 / 02.12.05
Turns people into sheep - translation/clarification: turns people into mindless zombies buying when and what the corporations tell them to buy. They go where the big companies tell them where to go.

I suspect quite an ovine thing to do is to believe that this only happens over the holidays. We're kind of back into "Bear with Me" territory here.

I don't know. Christmas sucks, saying Christmas sucks sucks. I feel Alex may have the right idea - gunishment.

XMas tidings? XMas HIDINGS!
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:37 / 02.12.05
I have yet to meet a real meatperson who is "aware" of how the world works.

Hello.

Every other slab of meat I've met is "enlightened" to the point of rancid arrogance.

Me again. This is uncanny!

Whilst the Xmas advertmeme overload is getting to me, it doesn't bother me that much. I kind of tune that crap out. However, the insidious Xmas-time music bothers me to an unreasonable degree.

I think it is because I once spent the holidays working the night shift stacking shelves for Sainsburys. They had a CD player linked into the tannoy system, but only one CD. Christmas bloody hits, every night, for nine hours, on endless repeat.

If that doesn't trigger your warp spasms, nothing will.

Still, I love Christmas with my family. Good food and merriment aplenty.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:50 / 02.12.05
Nobody understands what the world truly is except me, my mates and Grant Morrison, and I understand it a bit better than all my mates.
 
 
Cherielabombe
08:00 / 02.12.05
...because they are SHEEPLE.

BTW I love Christma$.
 
 
waxy dan
08:06 / 02.12.05
Dude. Exactly as stated above; it is what you make it.

I walk down Oxford St ,which could be perceived as one of the most crass commerical centres of the world; and, you know what, I think the red lights streaming down Debenhams are really pretty. I think the branches entangled with points of white light around Monsoon are quite beautiful.

I passed by Christmas Carol singers last night on Trafalgar square raising money (very successfully I should add).

Even the Disney store makes me smile.

Turns people into sheep - translation/clarification: turns people into mindless zombies buying when and what the corporations tell them to buy. They go where the big companies tell them where to go: I don't. I spend a huge amount of money around Christmas... well, that's relative I guess; it's a huge portion of my bank balance. I spend a LOT of time going through markets, bookshops, and chain stores looking for gifts that are just right. In doing so, I give a good portion of my wages to large corporations. I also take pride in putting effort into showing my appreciation of my friends and family.

On Christmas night; I'll go over to the house of a school friend of my mum's. Their generation's children will all come to that home on the same night every year and exchange gifts, drink, and lose a lot of money on poker.

I really don't give a damn if an industry has grown up around that fact. Actually, I celebrate it. I can certainly think of worse things to capitalise on.
 
 
Loomis
08:38 / 02.12.05
Any holiday that means you can get pissed on sherry in the middle of the day without having to hide it from the family is all right by me.

It's a perfectly normal part of getting older matt. I'm sure most of us have gone through the same thing, first bitching about how much xmas sucks, then bitching about people bitching, then finally realising there are more important things. Like sherry.

I suggest you buy some slippers, a cardigan, a bottle of sherry and cozy up in an armchair in the corner and watch The Great Escape.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
08:42 / 02.12.05
If you can avoid

1) spending money you don't have on presents they don't want for people who don't need them

and

2) being trapped overnight with family who are drunk, hungover, tired, stressed, dyspeptic

then Christmas is fine.

Ganesh and I will be doing the usual at Christmas. When we're not on our knees praying for World Peace and for a chimnney to fall on the Pope, we'll be down the soup kitchen, choking some chickens and stirring the pot. And giving it a bit of well-lubricated wassail, I expect.

God rest ye merry Barbeloids! Let nothing you dismay, dudes.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:51 / 02.12.05
I know if you've been good or bad.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
09:01 / 02.12.05
There must have been some magic in that old silk hat you found.
 
 
Char Aina
09:01 / 02.12.05
being trapped overnight with family who are drunk, hungover, tired, stressed, dyspeptic

god, yes.
there's not much worse than that feeling that the party is at the end of a long and expensive cab ride that you cantpossibly afford and having to make do with watching crap telly in among the leftovers.

i really need to learn to drive.
or fly.
flying would be good, and you could do it drunk.
 
 
Axolotl
09:12 / 02.12.05
You lot are miserable buggers. Christmas is great, well as long as you can avoid spending too much time in the shops it is (damn Christmas music). You get to be jolly, have open fires, go down the pub on crisp clear mornings, spend time with friends and/or family depending on personal choice.
Best of all you can consume your own body weight in mince pies. And after all isn't that the true meaning of Christmas?
 
 
Mistoffelees
09:19 / 02.12.05
Now I´m getting curious. What are mince pies?
 
 
Axolotl
09:30 / 02.12.05
They're brilliant, I love them.
Basically they're a pie filled with mincemeat, which confusingly contains no meat, and is instead a mix of raisins, sultanas, currants, ginger, cinnamon, nutmeg and maybe some brandy or similar booze.
These are often made as individual small pies, as oppose to your basic big pie. Serve hot or cold and maybe accompanied by custard, cream or ice cream.
In my opinion they're the best thing about Christmas and have been eating them from the moment they appear in the shops.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
09:42 / 02.12.05
Mince pies are a bad idea at any time of year but, after the five hundredth one is thrust in your bilious face just after Christmas, they are revealed as the tool of Satan's dominion over Boxing Day.
 
 
Mistoffelees
09:42 / 02.12.05
Ah yes, must be what we call Weihnachtsstollen. Tasty, and I haven´t had any of these yet this year!
 
 
Char Aina
09:54 / 02.12.05
contains no meat

they do often contain beef suet, though.
mygranny makes a mean veggie one, but one does have to be careful.

xoc, it sounds like you are talking mini mince pies.
these one man, one bite servings are not the real deal, for my money.
the real deal is home made and is a pie, large enough to serve to several guests and made in a shallow dish.

kinda like apple pie but not.
 
 
Axolotl
09:58 / 02.12.05
I'd forgotten about the suet, sweet, sweet suet.
My gran makes the big type of mince pie as well Toksik, and they too are great, but in a subtly different way.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
10:59 / 02.12.05
I had some old-fashioned mince pies last year, the kind that have meat in them. The did taste very nice indeed. Wouldn't taste good if you're veggie though and I was threatened with ultraviolence for suggesting the very notion of a version made using Quorn. Apparently mince pies should never be TVP-tastic.
 
 
matthew.
13:17 / 02.12.05
choking some chickens
What's a Christmas thread without some penis jokes?
"Ha HA" - Phil Ken Sebben
 
  

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