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The Lithers Guide to Manners and Etiquette

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
Char Aina
19:22 / 12.10.06
It really isn't hard. Tip on the total, including tax. Typically you will get a bill that has a figure with a fucking great big circle around it. That is the total. That is what you tip on. Say it comes to $156.34. Clearly you aren't going to figure an exact percentage of $156.34, so call it an even $150 and round up on the tip. Did you have an average dinner? Leave $23. That's about 15%. Was is a very nice meal? Leave $30 (20%). was it one of the best dining experiences you've ever had? Leave $38, then, that's 25%. Why is that so difficult? I just did it in my head as I was typing, and I just got up with a hangover.

how much do you tip if you notice your server has a chip on their shoulder the size of an aircraft carrier and sneers at anyone who has a lesser handle on the maths relating to tipping*, considering them lazy, arrogant, and, it seems, stupid?

would fuck all seem fair?




*maths which service staff are painfully aware of several times a day, and which customers are not.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
19:30 / 12.10.06
I always tip the bartenders at bars I go out regularly extremely well because they always know what I drink, they keep it coming, they comp me one every now and again, and they are genuinely pleasant.

Even for new bars, I still leave a $1 per drink.
 
 
astrojax69
23:07 / 12.10.06
While I'm always very happy to drink good coffee, I don't really expect it. Call me Reacher, but restaurant coffee is a way to get caffeine into me rather than a taste sensation in an of itself.

coffee really isn't hard. there should not be bad coffee. ever. there is no reason for bad coffee. great coffee? there indeed may be another matter, and cause one to flee at once to portugal (sorry italians, but your iberian friends have the mantle imho), but just common or garden variety good coffee - there is no substitute. if you just want caffeine, take a no-doze pill, but never suffer less than good coffee. drink tea if necessary.

rant over. : )

and back for a moment to traffic matters, i have a friend who calls people turning their indicators on as they go round the corner 'celebratory indicators', to celebrate a successful execution of the manouevre!
 
 
Char Aina
23:31 / 12.10.06
there is no reason for bad coffee.


i can see at least one reason, and it's name is cost.

do you know how much an espresso machine and a decent grinder go for?
or how much it costs to install water filtration between your mains water and the machine (essential for all but the cleanest of water)?

without those two things you'd need to use caffitieres and bottled water to have a decent chance at a good cup of coffee, and a good cappucino would be off the menu.
at a ready time of around four minutes per press, as i believe they call them stateside, that would be some serious multitasking, assuming more than three or four people want a drink.

i am, of course, assuming that everyone would be willing to wait longer than two minutes for a drink, and wouldnt mind the labour and bottled water costs being reflected in the exceptionally high price of their drink.

i agree that you should seek good coffee and support those who provide it, but i do not agree that there is no excuse for it's lack.



...and let's not get into the conversation about places with no mains water and a lack of kids without ambition to staff the machine for just now.

let's just say that there are more reasons for bad coffee than are dreamt of in your philosophy, dude.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
01:24 / 13.10.06
how much do you tip if you notice your server has a chip on their shoulder the size of an aircraft carrier and sneers at anyone who has a lesser handle on the maths relating to tipping*, considering them lazy, arrogant, and, it seems, stupid?

would fuck all seem fair?

*maths which service staff are painfully aware of several times a day, and which customers are not.


Fuck all would be fine, provided that you never intend to go back to that establishment. If you want to make a "statement tip" about your server, 10% is the typical "fuck you" tip in the States.

I'm sorry, but having a "lesser handle" on math relating to tipping is pretty sad. I learned basic percentages when I was in third grade public school, and I am pretty shitty at math.

I hardly think that it's too much to ask for someone to calculate a simple round percentage. If you have trouble figuring 15%-25% on a simple sum, any decent server would, I'm sure, be willing to help you.

As for laziness, arrogance and stupidity, you'll have to ask your server about those specials. If you're referring to me, your snarkiness is misguided. I was referring to people from other countries who chronically undertip. I never serve customers with an "aircraft carrier-sized" chip on my shoulder. Even the regulars who I hate to the depths of my soul would never know it.

I am assuming, out of the goodness of my heart, that they are just ignorant of American tipping, and not being malicious. In my opinion, if you can't be bothered to research the cultural niceties of the country you are visiting, you should stay home. To not do so is arrogant to me. It would take less than five minutes to research American tipping on Google. If you can't bother with that, you are one lazy bastard.

As far as stupidity is concerned, I don't think I mentioned it.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
06:34 / 13.10.06
Or, alternatively, you could take five minutes and look up the proper etiquette before you come out to dinner.

My implication here was that a european tourist may be ignorant of any difference in tipping culture or the availability of guidance, despite it's proliferation. Or maybe they have sought guidance and have unfortunately been misadvised. I guess this makes them tight-fisted gits.

In my experience, Europeans don't recieve poor service, they just tip atrociously.

But this is highly subjective though, given the cultural variations. They may well be of the opinion that they have tipped exceedingly well and confused at your ire.

I don't think it's too much to ask to research cultural standards when visiting a foreign country. In fact, to not do so is, in my opinion, lazy and arrogant.

Can I point out that, while this isn't applicable to the whole, American tourists have garnered something of a reputation of being ignorant of cultural standards. Lazy and arrogant are descriptors that are frequently used.

What do you mean when you say that chain eateries pay better than independant restaurants?

I can't say that I've ever heard of Chili's or Friendly's, but I was refering to European chain eateries. I've not seen any tourist guidance that explains that there is a continental difference.

I'd also really like some clarification on this: "and, oh yes, some of us have higher/different expectations of service than others." Meaning what, exactly? That service is so kick-ass in Europe that we grubby Americans don't deserve a decent tip because we're such inferior servers? Well, don't come out to eat, then. Order take-out. I know I wouldn't want you at my bar with that attitude.

For clarification, I meant that while you feel that you may be giving good service, your customer may have a higher expectation. I didn't say that this was warranted. Alternatively their expectations of what constitutes good service may very well be different. That doesn't meant that your service is any worse, just not what they would expect. It's kind of like how Seinfeld and Frasier are both top ratingcomedy shows, yet very much different.

It really isn't hard. Tip on the total, including tax. Typically you will get a bill that has a figure with a fucking great big circle around it.

Not hard, but still finer points that are not actually covered in commonly available guidance. I have to say though, my experience of dining in the US hasn't commonly included the fucking great big circle around the total.

Don't worry about the cooks, they don't get tipouts anyway.

Another cultural difference not covered in common guidance. In the Europe, a number of establishments tip out cooks because they recognise the link between good food and good tips/repeat business. It acts as an incentive to turn in a good performance.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
07:06 / 13.10.06
If you want to make a "statement tip" about your server, 10% is the typical "fuck you" tip in the States.

I am assuming, out of the goodness of my heart, that they are just ignorant of American tipping

Just saying.
 
 
Char Aina
09:01 / 13.10.06

As far as stupidity is concerned, I don't think I mentioned it.


no, you didnt.
hence 'seems'.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
18:48 / 13.10.06
Or, alternatively, you could take five minutes and look up the proper etiquette before you come out to dinner.

My implication here was that a european tourist may be ignorant of any difference in tipping culture or the availability of guidance, despite it's proliferation. Or maybe they have sought guidance and have unfortunately been misadvised. I guess this makes them tight-fisted gits.


No, it makes them ignorant of American tipping customs.

In my experience, Europeans don't recieve poor service, they just tip atrociously.

But this is highly subjective though, given the cultural variations. They may well be of the opinion that they have tipped exceedingly well and confused at your ire.


What ire? Did I ever say that I gave European diners a hard time? I did not, and I do not. There has never been any ire for them to be confused about.

I don't think it's too much to ask to research cultural standards when visiting a foreign country. In fact, to not do so is, in my opinion, lazy and arrogant.

Can I point out that, while this isn't applicable to the whole, American tourists have garnered something of a reputation of being ignorant of cultural standards. Lazy and arrogant are descriptors that are frequently used.


Which has what to do with anything? Are you saying that, because Americans have a reputation for being ignorant of cultural standards, it's okay for Europeans to be ignorant of American standards?

What do you mean when you say that chain eateries pay better than independant restaurants?

I can't say that I've ever heard of Chili's or Friendly's, but I was refering to European chain eateries. I've not seen any tourist guidance that explains that there is a continental difference.


Well, apparently there is, if chain restaurants pay better in Europe. Because they do not over here.

I'd also really like some clarification on this: "and, oh yes, some of us have higher/different expectations of service than others." Meaning what, exactly? That service is so kick-ass in Europe that we grubby Americans don't deserve a decent tip because we're such inferior servers? Well, don't come out to eat, then. Order take-out. I know I wouldn't want you at my bar with that attitude.

For clarification, I meant that while you feel that you may be giving good service, your customer may have a higher expectation. I didn't say that this was warranted. Alternatively their expectations of what constitutes good service may very well be different. That doesn't meant that your service is any worse, just not what they would expect. It's kind of like how Seinfeld and Frasier are both top ratingcomedy shows, yet very much different.


Further explanation is needed here, I feel. Specific examples would be nice. What expectations do Europeans have that an American server might not be meeting?

It really isn't hard. Tip on the total, including tax. Typically you will get a bill that has a figure with a fucking great big circle around it.

Not hard, but still finer points that are not actually covered in commonly available guidance. I have to say though, my experience of dining in the US hasn't commonly included the fucking great big circle around the total.


Oh, come on. All you have to do is ask somebody, for crying out loud. Or use Google. I just did, and there are websites devoted to tipping. It took me about ten seconds to find one.

Don't worry about the cooks, they don't get tipouts anyway.

Another cultural difference not covered in common guidance. In the Europe, a number of establishments tip out cooks because they recognise the link between good food and good tips/repeat business. It acts as an incentive to turn in a good performance.


A far superior system to ours, in my opinion. Incentive-based wages are teh awesome.
 
  

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