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The Lithers Guide to Manners and Etiquette

 
  

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StarWhisper
19:04 / 11.10.06
Does anyone consider it rude to expect your waiting staff/barista/shop-assistant/clerk/burger-flipper etc. to be fawning over you constantly with an ecstatic false grin on their faces? I can't stand it. Last time I checked, having to pretend you are something that you're not is really quite demeaning; and demeaning oneself for purposes of monetary gain is a form of prostitution.
I think someone would have to outright tell me to go fuck myself before they would fail to get a tip. Generally speaking the more like themselves people appear to be the better I feel about being where they are.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
19:06 / 11.10.06
Sadly, being yourself means your career shelf life in those areas are very short-lived. Believe me, I know.
 
 
grant
19:24 / 11.10.06
Hourly wage typically covers taxes and little else.

Very important: waitrons are actually paid below minimum wage because it's expected they'll make most of their money in tips.
 
 
StarWhisper
19:30 / 11.10.06
Tell me about it. Some bright-spark left me loads of copper money as tip once and then seemed a bit non plussed when I threw it at him. My shelf life is approx. 6.8 secs average.
A lot of people I know are really good at thier jobs and I'm green with envy. It's not the people who make the coffee that are the problem, it's the horrid wired customers who are never bloody happy.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
19:37 / 11.10.06
This makes me miss my old job. Five years of being the celebrated Aurora bitch and still having people tip me well for it.

*sniff*
 
 
Smoothly
20:03 / 11.10.06
An old thread on tipping here, that I found quite interesting.
I was talking to some friends about this the other night (whose tipping habits varied widely) and I realised that I'm basically a nervous tipper, and situations where I can't control the scene by tipping make me really uncomfortable (hotel rooms where I've got no cash - are the worst). My more confident friends seem (on a small sample) to tip less than the introverted ones. It made me realise that it's quite a complex and nuanced transaction. Anyway...
 
 
Mistoffelees
20:06 / 11.10.06
My New York tourist guide is a bit confused about the subject. It says 10% in coffee shops, but also says 20% for waiters (15% for barkeepers and 10-15% for cab drivers).
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
04:54 / 12.10.06
I'm insulted that us barkeeps rate 5% less than dirty wait staff in your tour guide. The nerve! As a restaurant barman, I usually see higher tips per head, but my customers spend far less money than the waiters' people.

As an eight-year veteran of the rough-and-tumble world of American restaurant work, I can give a little schematic of how it works. Wait staff make the lion's share of the tips. They then have to make a tipout at the end of the night to the buspeople and barkeep. The industry standards are 5% for each busboy/girl and 15% for the bartender. The bartender also keeps all of hir tips from bar customers. The wait staff have the lowest hourly wage (as was said above, far below minimum wage), about $3/hour. Busboys are usually teenagers and make about minimum wage plus their tipout. Bartenders make their tips, their tipout and usually the highest hourly wage among front staff, as the bartender facilitates transactions and usually ends up as a de facto member of the management. For the most part, kitchen staff make no money from tips and therefore make the highest hourly wage.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
06:26 / 12.10.06
A heads-up for all of my US wait staff friends. If you wind up with a table of Europeans, don't take it too much to heart.

Not all of us have read the guidebook, guide books vary, 10% is easier than 15% calculation, chain eateries are far more expected to pay decently than indies and, oh yes, some of us have higher/different expectations of service than others.

Probably best to accept that you have a bit of a dud table on your hands and instead of getting uppity the best thing to do is get us served quickly and efficiently and out of the door as soon as is polite. Don't whine and moan and leave us waiting because we're not worth it, that's just a waste of valuable table space and you're possibly loosing a more lucrative cover.

Furthermore, be thankful that if you fuck up we're less likely to be shouty about bringing to your attention.

As for US baristas, sorry to break it to you but it seems to be the consensus that your Gaggia skills are not quite equal to your European peers. There are even sections in travel guides that warn European tourists to this extent. I can't speak for anyone else here but I get highly irked to tip someone only to find out that they've fucked up a basic americano and I'm fairly sure that it's bad form to waltz back into the coffee store and demand your tip back.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
13:03 / 12.10.06
I've been trained by the best as a barista. And I've had nothing but praise from European customers in regards to my skills.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:07 / 12.10.06
Buying ANYTHING in the States seems to be a potential arithmetical minefield. Tax, tips... how the fuck is it that Europe still has this crazy view of Americans as stupid when they're wrestling with this complicated mathematical stuff ALL THE FUCKING TIME?
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
13:15 / 12.10.06
I've been trained by the best as a barista. And I've had nothing but praise from European customers in regards to my skills

But you are just one, among many.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
13:24 / 12.10.06
Buying ANYTHING in the States seems to be a potential arithmetical minefield. Tax, tips...

Here's a query. Am I supposed to tip on the tax as well as the unit cost or not? For instance, if I order $100 worth of food and get taxed at 10% then my bill comes to $110. Should I be tipping $15 even or should I be tipping $16.50? to meet the 15% guidelines.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:25 / 12.10.06
You see what I mean? It's making my brane hurt already.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
13:28 / 12.10.06
And this before you get onto rounding and card tipping, for which it would also be nice to have the proper protocols explained.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:29 / 12.10.06
While I'm always very happy to drink good coffee, I don't really expect it. Call me Reacher, but restaurant coffee is a way to get caffeine into me rather than a taste sensation in an of itself. Obviously should I find that the coffee I receive is lovely, that's a bonus, but I can't imagine complaining about a lesser cup.

Mind you, I can't really imagine complaining at all.

So, next question - service charge. Do you tip above it, or do you strike it out and tip in cash, or do you just pay it? I seem to recall that the service charge goes into a pool and is then divided between the serving staff at the end of the night, so I guess if you want to say a particular thankyou to the person who served you, is it better to give cash? Although that seems a bit hard on the cooks - so, pay and cash?
 
 
Char Aina
13:33 / 12.10.06
I've been trained by the best as a barista. And I've had nothing but praise from European customers in regards to my skills.

best in america.
praised by europeans in america.
there is a relativity at work here, dude.

do lauded work in italy and you will have proven what you seek to prove.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
13:42 / 12.10.06
I can't see any justification for paying above the service charge. It's self-aggrandisement that negates any exceptional service that you might have received.

Good serving staff avoid obligatory service charge establishments like the plague because they know it's death on any overtipping (that is from the horses mouth, so to speak). If it's not obligatory then the server is either mitigating their own shortcomings or making a presumption about you as a customer.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:43 / 12.10.06
Be fair, lovelies. I don't think Kali is saying she's the best coffee maker in the world - just that she makes a very good cup of coffee.
 
 
Quantum
14:13 / 12.10.06
If her crema is creamy and her shots look like miniature Guinness I reckon that's good enough for me. Kali, do people come back for your ristretto or espresso? That's the clincher.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
14:16 / 12.10.06
I am able to make damn fine espresso drinks and ordinary coffee. My former place of employment has been lauded in the area in its decade-plus of existence as being the one place in this godforsaken city where one can get the authentic Italian coffee experience some seek to find. I am proud of my abilities. I am proud that I should decide to move anywhere, there is always work for a good barista.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
14:16 / 12.10.06
And ristretto. I am something of a manic perfectionist when it comes to crema.
 
 
Quantum
14:22 / 12.10.06
As a fellow ex-barista I salute you. You'd be surprised how few places clean their screens properly or descale their gaggia, people just don't care enough.
Coffee trivia- Starbucks has an outlet in Guantanamo Bay. Don't buy their coffee.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:25 / 12.10.06
Hey, enemy combatants need delicious frothy choco mochalattes too, you know.
 
 
grant
14:40 / 12.10.06
Tipping in hotels: Barbelith! Your heuristics, please!
 
 
Quantum
14:59 / 12.10.06
enemy combatants need delicious frothy choco mochalattes too
Yes but they don't need to be submerged in them backwards tied to a board. Allegedly.

Grant- I don't tip.

 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
16:06 / 12.10.06
As a fellow ex-barista I salute you. You'd be surprised how few places clean their screens properly or descale their gaggia, people just don't care enough.

Could an ex-barista find barista work over there?
 
 
Quantum
16:51 / 12.10.06
Yep. Badly paid work but work nonetheless, since it's one of those high turnover jobs there's always vacancies. Well, in Brighton and London at least.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
17:10 / 12.10.06
I don't do for the money, babe. I do it for the glory.
 
 
Char Aina
17:30 / 12.10.06
you can work almost anywhere in the UK as a barista, i reckon.
glasgow has a few shit-hot stops for that sort of malarkey, and i reckon any city with half a million served or more would do.

i'm helping out occasionally in one run by a friend at the moment, albeit one with a ropey-ass replacement machine.

the gaggia is supposed to be back any day now.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
17:33 / 12.10.06
See? At least I know I could get a job should I come on over.

I love working as a barista.

I know. It's sick.
 
 
■
17:44 / 12.10.06
Here's a question which has been bugging me about tippery and ettiquette. When you're on a freebie of some sort (you've won a meal in a competition or you're getting it for PR or something), does ANYONE ever tip? I read Anthony Bourdain recently saying you should, but I have never seen anyone doing it. The reasoning is that even though the owner is able to suck up the cost of the food and the labour, the staff will be doing as good a job as usual, but will b ou of pocket. I recently had a very nice freebie or two paid for by a Tourist Board, and when I brought it up with the PR lady she said she was sure the staff would be compensated. I wasn't so sure.
So, service workers, do you ever get anything extra for serving such people?
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
17:52 / 12.10.06
I would tip. Just me, though.

Having spent five years in the coffee shop industry has made me hyperaware of people who make their living this way. I was always good to my bartenders but now I'm friggin' ridiculous.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
18:03 / 12.10.06
ignominious-Probably best to accept that you have a bit of a dud table on your hands and instead of getting uppity the best thing to do is get us served quickly and efficiently and out of the door as soon as is polite. Don't whine and moan and leave us waiting because we're not worth it, that's just a waste of valuable table space and you're possibly loosing a more lucrative cover.

Or, alternatively, you could take five minutes and look up the proper etiquette before you come out to dinner.

Fine dining restaurants don't rush anyone out the door unless they've overstayed their reservation. Nor do the staff "whine and moan" at the customers. In my experience, Europeans don't recieve poor service, they just tip atrociously. In the past two weeks alone, I've seen three parties (two French, one English) who had a lovely meal tip less than ten percent.

Not all of us have read the guidebook, guide books vary, 10% is easier than 15% calculation, chain eateries are far more expected to pay decently than indies and, oh yes, some of us have higher/different expectations of service than others.

Well, read the guidebook. Use Google. I don't think it's too much to ask to research cultural standards when visiting a foreign country. In fact, to not do so is, in my opinion, lazy and arrogant. Tipping 10% is easier on your head? How lazy can you possibly be?

What do you mean when you say that chain eateries pay better than independant restaurants? Are you under the impression that waiters at Chili's or Friendly's are making a higher wage than the staff at the local privately-owned fine dining place? Because they're not.

I'd also really like some clarification on this: "and, oh yes, some of us have higher/different expectations of service than others." Meaning what, exactly? That service is so kick-ass in Europe that we grubby Americans don't deserve a decent tip because we're such inferior servers? Well, don't come out to eat, then. Order take-out. I know I wouldn't want you at my bar with that attitude.

Here's a query. Am I supposed to tip on the tax as well as the unit cost or not? For instance, if I order $100 worth of food and get taxed at 10% then my bill comes to $110. Should I be tipping $15 even or should I be tipping $16.50? to meet the 15% guidelines.

It really isn't hard. Tip on the total, including tax. Typically you will get a bill that has a figure with a fucking great big circle around it. That is the total. That is what you tip on. Say it comes to $156.34. Clearly you aren't going to figure an exact percentage of $156.34, so call it an even $150 and round up on the tip. Did you have an average dinner? Leave $23. That's about 15%. Was is a very nice meal? Leave $30 (20%). was it one of the best dining experiences you've ever had? Leave $38, then, that's 25%. Why is that so difficult? I just did it in my head as I was typing, and I just got up with a hangover.

Haus-So, next question - service charge. Do you tip above it, or do you strike it out and tip in cash, or do you just pay it? I seem to recall that the service charge goes into a pool and is then divided between the serving staff at the end of the night, so I guess if you want to say a particular thankyou to the person who served you, is it better to give cash? Although that seems a bit hard on the cooks - so, pay and cash?

You probably don't want to eat at any place that has a standard service charge. It's not exactly a mark of a fine establishment (Except for large parties- More than six people will often be charged a flat 20% to avoid catastrophic undertipping on a large bill). If you're already there, I would just pay it, not overtip unless my server was really awesome, and then I would leave him some cash. Don't worry about the cooks, they don't get tipouts anyway. If your meal was kind of lame but your cocktails were fantastic, drop by the bar and slip the barkeep some cash. We love that, and will remember to take special care with your drinks in the future.

cube-Here's a question which has been bugging me about tippery and ettiquette. When you're on a freebie of some sort (you've won a meal in a competition or you're getting it for PR or something), does ANYONE ever tip? I read Anthony Bourdain recently saying you should, but I have never seen anyone doing it. The reasoning is that even though the owner is able to suck up the cost of the food and the labour, the staff will be doing as good a job as usual, but will b ou of pocket. I recently had a very nice freebie or two paid for by a Tourist Board, and when I brought it up with the PR lady she said she was sure the staff would be compensated. I wasn't so sure.
So, service workers, do you ever get anything extra for serving such people?


It's proper to tip in those situations, certainly, but if the owner is worth a damn, ze'll compensate hir staff a standard 20% if they aren't tipped.

Kali-Having spent five years in the coffee shop industry has made me hyperaware of people who make their living this way. I was always good to my bartenders but now I'm friggin' ridiculous.

Yeah, me too. Unless my server is actively unpleasant, they're getting 25%. If they're truly a great professional, I'll go higher, especially for fellow bartenders. We get fucked over a lot.
 
 
HCE
18:49 / 12.10.06
I was very unhappy about feeling as though I shouldn't tip in Europe. Not tipping makes my stomach feel nervous, like I've littered. A basic violation.

I have no interest in being fawned on, but I do think a courteous and friendly demeanor is part of good service. No need to go overboard and draw happy faces on the bill or strike up a conversation, but if I merely wanted food delivery I'd go to a vending machine. Good service is unobtrusive -- not having to wonder what the server's problem is, not having to ask twice or more for something, getting what I ordered, being told if there's going to be a delay in getting food/drinks. I get good service in most restaurants most of the time -- 85% perhaps. There is a good amount of professionalism among waitstaff in LA.

Tipping to me is less about punishment and reward than it is about cultivating a relationship with somebody I expect to see with some regularity, and I tip my regular waiters better than people I don't expect to see again.

I tip masseuses, hair stylists, body piercers, and other people who have to make physical contact 30%.

I tip 20% for service with no major problems. I try to solve major problems (food coming out wrong repeatedly, very long waits for service) with the server. Sometimes the kitchen is slow, sometimes somebody hit the server's car en route to work. They generally improve the service or try to make amends of some kind if you're nice in the way you ask and don't automatically assume that they're giving bad service because they're evil or shiftless.

But not always. Servers who are chatting with their friends as my drink languishes unfilled are my number one pet peeve and I have no qualms about letting their employers know. I tip 10% of the pre-tax total in such cases, so the server is not actually losing money.

I never, ever, ever tip somebody who has done nothing more than take something out of a case, hand it to me in a bag, and make change. That is not service, such jobs are not paid at the lower tipped-employee rate and taxed on expected tips, and I am impervious to glares.

If you can't afford to tip properly, go someplace cheaper or stay home. The restaurant industry will not collapse without you & your meager tips, don't worry.
 
  

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