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Underground > Conversation >

Smoking to be banned completely in English pubs and restaurants.

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23:09 / 03.07.07

Grrr I just been out for a decent Tuesday night drinking with the first of this no smoking business and it's a right tricky malarkey I can tell thee.

I'm sure in time I'll be used to it but many a time this fine eveningsong I've been lighting up, stopped myself, walked outside for a cig, then felt a right lightweight uncool rule follower. I heard when the French government tried to bring in the same rule a few years back (all hearsay mind you) the people just generally ignored it, so it was given up upon. Despite my drunken rabble raising this evening, I couldn't seem to get enough of a backing from 'the people' to follow our feisty Gallic cousins. I reckon we just be far too law abiding over in England for any rebellion antics.

Up g'North in Manchester we can be fined £50 for dropping a cig end on the floor (although sportingly the litter/traffic wardens wear a bright red outfit including hat) and most ashtrays outside of buildings have been removed for fear of breaking the smoke within the confines, or similar ruling, so lots of extra money for the council there.

I am awaiting the rise of the secret smoking pubs, akin to the pubs you get away with smoking weed but only if you're discreet. Or I suppose I could try stopping for a bit....

What's the London Bblth Smokers feeling? Give up, re-locate home or move underground 8o) ...

23:48 / 03.07.07

Give up, re-locate home or move underground 8o) ...

If Glasgow is anything to go by first people will have sneaky smoke indoors, then moan about smoking outside and then it will become second nature to just nip out for ciggie.

I'm not a fan of the smoking ban personally but it does have its upsides. I'm a sucker for a bit of techno at the arches and thought the ban would ruin the experience, I think it must be something they put in the drinks that makes me want to chain smoke, turns out they opened the lane at the back for smoking and the best way I can explain it is that they added a kitchen to the house party. Plenty non smokers are out there talking shite for a bit of time out before heading back into the fray.

If you're in an establishment where you can't take/sneak your drink out it becomes a little more of a problem but if commited nicotine addicts in Glasgow managed to smoke their way through the winter the summer down south should be a warm breeze.

00:26 / 04.07.07

sorry don't know why I was just asking the cockeneys when you've clearly has a lot more exerience up your way.

Kitchen in a house party sounds most reassuring and uplifting. I was a worrying what would happen in clubs as most bouncers of the non friendly variety will break your legs before letting you nip out and back in again. I went fot the sneaky smoke indoors this evening, but am guessing there's only so long it will be acceptable to fellow drinkers. Here's to a long hot summer...maybe...

00:41 / 04.07.07

If you were so drunk that you're not sure were you were the night before you can always check your hands for club stamps to help put the pieces together.

13:51 / 04.07.07

No big loss, eh?

14:02 / 04.07.07

As a Scot who smokes lots and lots, I think the ban's a really positive thing.

Why should I care where I smoke? A lot of the pubs up here now have canopies and tables outside so you can still smoke in all weathers.

A lot of pals who otherwise wouldn't have come to the pub because it was too smoky have now started coming out of the woodwork, I've met up with friends I hadn't seen in years! Also it's helping a lot of people to give up, which is a good thing.

As for the gig problem, surely you can hang on for the hour and a half that gigs usually take before you have to go for a puff?

Also, I don't think having a fly puff in the pub is a tremendously socally aware thing. You're poisoning other people's lungs and, up here at least, putting the bar's license in danger.

14:27 / 04.07.07

I read somewhere (in one of the Sundays, I think) that cigarette sales in Scotland have actually gone up since the ban, because people are tending to stay at home with a carry-out, listlessly chaining away, rather than going to socialise in the pub.

14:59 / 04.07.07

Really? That sounds quite surprising... given that the smoking cessation figures have allegedly increased massively...

Where did you read this, Granny?

15:45 / 04.07.07

IOS or The Observer ... Or possibly the Evening Standard, actually.

The article did take account of the number of Scots who've supposedly quit since the ban (between one and three per cent, if memory serves). And cigarette sales are up in spite of that, apparently.

08:35 / 05.07.07

Fewer smokers, smoking harder.

Well done to all those picking up the slack

09:38 / 05.07.07

Don't mention it.

10:11 / 05.07.07

Well done to all those picking up the slack

I suppose they must feel as if they have no choice.

On the plus side though, they'll be dead sooner, so in a way, I guess, everyone's a winner.

Especially the State; isn't it more convenient, financially, for more people to fall to pieces in their last days in an Old Folks Home at their own expense, rather than taking up space in a cancer ward courtesy of the government's wad?

Isn't that really what all this is about?

10:50 / 05.07.07

/... shrug

We will still have the right to end up on a cancer ward. It's just that hopefully it'll become less necessary. Yes. The Government wants us out of its cancer wards, they're very expensive, but then we don't want to be there either, do we? I don't see the extra cash flowing from the scaling down or plateauing of respiratory services being a problem. I suppose we have to assume that the sums balance out and that the loss in nicotine tax revenue will be offset by fewer people dying of lung cancer and requiring expensive treatment, but... that IS an assumption...

11:41 / 05.07.07

I had a very nice time at the pub last night, the ban doesn't seem to have affected the low inhabitants of Surrey. Plenty of people there and at others I passed on the way in.

Oddly enough my local has closed until further notice though. Synchronicity? Outright refusal to enact the ban? Or the fact that it was a terrible dive barely inhabited by the dregs of Humanity's sump tank?

12:04 / 05.07.07

On the plus side though, they'll be dead sooner, so in a way, I guess, everyone's a winner

bit harsh, surely? or have i missed the point?

12:14 / 05.07.07

B-but Sib, the deal is; everyone has to die, sooner or later.

Everyone, that is, except me.

But really, what's the point of pissing away (literally, towards the end, I fear) the money in a secure facility for the Old Folks at your own expense, and, more importantly, at the expense of whoever you're going to leave whatever cash you've managed to get together to. Being in a cancer ward seems preferable - you wouldn't be this sort of ... not to spell this out, but basically, a senile lunatic draining your children's resources in ths or that horror facility that the English government doesn't pay for.

Every breath you'd draw, as an older person, would be a waste of everyone's time, and also money, especially if towards the end one, as an older person, began to lose one's mind.

By all means, though, Sib, carry on with what seems to be your basic premise about death; i.e. that it's curable.

The solution, and I should know, lies somewhere hidden beneath those graveyards under Charlotte Square - emerging from there I was terribly pale, covered in weeds and insanity, and arguably, no longer worth listening to, until I was.

'Christ'' they said 'Fucking hell1'

I didn't tell them that I was there on behalf of Churchill until quite a lot later.

Closed for Business Time

12:18 / 05.07.07

AG Especially the State; isn't it more convenient, financially, for more people to fall to pieces in their last days in an Old Folks Home at their own expense, rather than taking up space in a cancer ward courtesy of the government's wad?

The issue of the cost of smoking to a state will obviously vary as a function of, amongst other things, the particular welfare system in that state. I remember a few years back there was a great big debate in Norwegian media after a study came out from a state research institution that the savings due to smokers dying relatively premature deaths were in the order of £ billions. Norway obv being a country were the Old Folks' place is free, gratis. Not sure how much of an argument this has been here in the UK and Ireland tho.

12:32 / 05.07.07

By all means, though, Sib, carry on with what seems to be your basic premise about death; i.e. that it's curable.

It's always been my theory.

14:13 / 05.07.07

er, Old Folks Places are free in the UK too, if you genuinely dont have the dosh (but believe me, you dont want to one of those places, i have to visit them occasionally as part of the day job and they are fucking grim, though actually not much worse than the Bupa places!)

Closed for Business Time

14:27 / 05.07.07

As one who never really followed that particular debate in UK media and politics - what were the main reasons for the ban? Was it to reduce smoking and the costs thereof, ie mainly utilitarian? Was it from a employee rights perspective, in that people have a right to work in a non-polluted workplace? A combo? Something else?

Whisky Priestess

14:41 / 05.07.07

Employee rights was the main pretext, but it was mostly because of a general moral majority feeling that smoking = evil.

Closed for Business Time

14:43 / 05.07.07

Well hello-o! Why the hell did I ever start smoking? CUZ IT WAS EVAL AND KEWL and made me feel like I was "made of win" as people here are fond of saying.

That cleared things up. Cheers, Whisky!

14:50 / 05.07.07

Much of the focus seemed to be employee rights, which is hard to argue against and goes some way to puncturing my default whinge about being denied any choice - it does irk me a bit that both groups, smokers and non-smokers can't be acommodated in the pursuit of their legally-sanctioned activities. However, as an employee in a public space you don't have that choice so fair enough, say I.

There were supporting arguments based around trying to achieve an overall improvement in the nation's health which, again, is a pretty unassailable principle. These arguments weren't advanced as strongly as they might, though, as IMHO the government feels it has to tread lightly around such subjects for fear of being accused of Big Brother interfereism

Or whatever that word should be.

All this from the same British public that's cheerfully skipping towards CCTV-lousy, ID card-carrying Gomorrah with barely a whimper of dissent.

21:17 / 05.07.07

AG, don't let these facists push you around. I encourage you to smoke heavily. It is your right, perhaps even your duty. Also, it makes you look cool.

22:18 / 05.07.07

I´ve just returned from a smoke free concert (Porcupine Tree). It took me 30 - 40 minutes until it clicked and I noticed what was different. I really liked it. And as there was an open door to the outside right next to the stage, there was a constant breeze of fresh air. In contrast, I remember a Supergrass concert, where it was so hot and the air was so bad, that I actually left early, because I got too uncomfortable.

Walking out of tonight´s concert I noticed a sign, that said the band asked not to smoke and smokers had the chance to smoke outside in the garden. Where I was standing, only two guys next to me couldn´t help themselves and smoked inside.

Mon Oncle Ignatius

19:28 / 10.07.07

Shaun Ryder follows in the footsteps of Charlie Kennedy and breaks the law onstage.

Performers are only exempt from the smoking ban if the "artistic integrity" of their act requires it.

It is believed members of the audience started smoking as a result of Ryder's actions.

I bet if he was puffing away on a joint he could try claiming something along the lines of artistic integrity, or necessity, maybe

Brigade du jour

22:03 / 11.07.07

That's interesting, I wonder what would come under the auspices of "artistic integrity"? Maybe if it was a stage direction in a play? I seem to remember when I were a lad an independent theatre troupe coming to my school and doing a modern-day performance of 'Love's Labour's Lost' or something, and being very surprised when one of the actors lit up. A proper cigarette, too, I saw the smoke and everything.

... um, it was a very conservative school.

01:26 / 12.07.07

Maybe if it was a stage direction in a play?

Presumably, yeah. Although if memory serves, there was some question as to whether TV soap actors would still be able to smoke on camera. And as far as I know Dot Cotton's given up.

I suppose it'll be all right if characters who smoke are shown to be evil (but not in stylish or attractive way) or just generally go on to suffer a horribkle fate.

05:19 / 12.07.07

TV soap actors would still be able to smoke on camera.

I think it's something along the lines of "not before the watershed" so the poor widdle children don't get influenced.

Let them smoke I say. They can't get into pubs.

06:41 / 12.07.07

there was some question as to whether TV soap actors would still be able to smoke on camera.

I would assume if the soap is set in britain and they obey the laws ie smoking in their own 'homes' or streets it would be ok.

It won't be long before a soap character get done by the police for smoking in a pub or the soap pub gets a fine for smoking on their premises in a storyline.

Mon Oncle Ignatius

07:29 / 12.07.07

Does anyone know if this has happened yet in a soap set in a country where there is a smoking ban that's been around a bit longer than in England? Pobol Y Cwm, maybe?

10:57 / 12.07.07

It won't be long before a soap character get done by the police for smoking in a pub or the soap pub gets a fine for smoking on their premises in a storyline.

This will, in fact, form the central theme of the next series of Spooks.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

15:12 / 12.07.07

Saw a thing in the paper the other day- apparently most of the British soaps do have "smoking ban" storylines either happening or ready.

Whisky Priestess

21:20 / 12.07.07

Well hello-o! Why the hell did I ever start smoking? CUZ IT WAS EVAL AND KEWL and made me feel like I was "made of win" as people here are fond of saying.

That cleared things up. Cheers, Whisky!

Sorry - did my post somehow come across as having an approving tone? Wasn't meant to. I'm an EVAL smoker too. Hence, I feel the pain that you are clearly also in. In fact, let's huggle, goddammit!

07:08 / 20.07.07

I wrote a poem about my first non-smoking gig:

Sweat and beer
Beer and sweat
I miss the smell of cigarettes

That is all.

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