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The darkest place I've ever been to

 
  

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Ria
12:51 / 25.09.05
getting a person to laugh at their problems and with you works better than even than Ill-matic's strategy, I think, and failing that, short, friendly, encouraging replies more that don't indulge the other person or let them off the hook.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:57 / 25.09.05
It's hard to stay friendly and encouraging when you're very disappointed.
 
 
Unconditional Love
12:59 / 25.09.05
This darkside or darkness, if it is a contrast to the christian god of light (he who brought forth light), doesnt that make it feminine? A womb? If it were within a classical greek context like chaos it would be one of the first births of the void.

So what exactly is this fascination with darkness and where does it come from, why do so many people find it attractive, what is its lure?

In a culture that emphasises light (largely christian at least where i live) and the values and morals that would seem to be enLIGHTened, wouldnt a proclivity be created in those that rebel to said culture, to enshrine themselves in a warm womb of darkness?

To embrace the feminine darkness rather than the oppressive patriarchical light, that dictates, and shines so brightly to blind with reason and faith. To feel the kiss and fertive magical touch of darkness in the soul?

Or is it all just hysteria through lack of a good hard shag?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:02 / 25.09.05
I find the whole "female=darkness/the Void ect, male=solar, light and brilliance and shiny stuff" thing pretty limiting as an outlook. And kind of offensive.
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:06 / 25.09.05
Yeah basically it is offensive, but i am wondering how much of a role it actually has to play in how darkness is percieved in a christian culture where light is percieved as mythically male.
 
 
Char Aina
13:12 / 25.09.05
Also, I go for a daily walk almost everyday

no you dont.
a daily walk and a walk almost every day are different things.
you lying sack of shit.


If anybody does want to offer him advice, go for you life, but I predict frustration...

seconded.
some people just dont learn.
sypha is one of those people.


and sypha? dude?
you live with your parents because its genetic?
bullshit.
you live with your parents because it affords you the luxuries you hold dear, material or otherwise.
why are you such a liar?
 
 
Ria
13:13 / 25.09.05
true, MC, hard to sound friendly if you feel dissapointed, in which case I would tend not to say anything at all.
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:21 / 25.09.05
For example, the basically racist comment about the qlipot being the home of african loa, anything that is considered other, ie not judaeo/christian and male can often find itself in the position of other, women, any kind of attribute not deemed correct by the light bearers becomes other. Women become okay as long as they worship god and bath in the light of the masculine spirit.

So the idea of darkness becomes a catch all for what the enlightened percieve to be wrong. Could it be argued that any self identification with that darkness is in a sense reinforcing the prejudices of those that percieve themselves to be enlightened (in the light) in the sense i am using it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:02 / 25.09.05
Over the last few months, nearly every book I’ve read has had at least something to do with Nazis (btw, I‘m not an Anti-Semite), serial killers, child molesters, and other such topics (I‘ve also been looking at way too much degrading pornography, but I‘m over that too). Granted, some of these writers/artists are quite skilled, but it’s not the kind of stuff you really want to expose yourself to on a frequent basis.

***

For starters, I don't just read books with "morbid" subject matter, though I have been leaning heavily in that direction as of recently. In fact I read all types of books and am always looking for new writers to read (most recently it's been Eco and Pynchon). Furthermore, all the "morbid" books I read were most often writers of the highest caliber, though that's open to argument but hey, every guy's entitled to an opinion.
 
 
rising and revolving
17:24 / 25.09.05
Personally I reckon that if you're working well, you should be having the everloving crap scared out of you now and again. You're supposed to be engaging with some heavy forces; fear is normal, fear is healthy. But seeking out the very scariest stuff all the time in the assumption that it must be the most juicy is also a mistake.

Besides, this isn't the stuff that scares Sypha. It's "dark and nasty" - but to the rest of the world, not to him. If he wants to engage with the things that terrify him, he'd sit down and make a plan to move out of his parents place. One that would actually work.

Or engage with his other problems in a productive fashion.

Honestly, I think that generally looking at the things that scare you *is* productive, for fear is both failure and the forerunner of failure. However, I think most people who start (fer eggsample) working with Cthulu don't do it because they're scared of the Great Old Ones, but because they're fascinated with them and scared of fully interfacing with the real world.
 
 
w1rebaby
19:16 / 25.09.05
This is true; so often, "exploring the dark side" means looking at serial killers and paedos and Columbine and all that shite. That's somebody else's dark side; on the internet it's just par for the course. You're not going to learn anything about yourself looking at somebody else's dark side and it certainly isn't challenging. If you don't pick something that you actually hate and fear, you're not going to go anywhere. Taking personal responsibility. Failing at something. Facing the scorn of your peers.

I remember I did an REBT course (Rational Emotional Belief Therapy) where the guy said that, for my "homework", I had to go out and do something that I knew I'd fail at, in front of another person, who would think worse of me for it - say, trying to chat somebody up. I couldn't bring myself to do it, but that fact made me a bit more aware.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:20 / 25.09.05
I'm of the firm belief that consciously doing something that's likely to result in making a total and utter tit of yourself is one of the most magical acts you can perform.
 
 
Ganesh
20:17 / 25.09.05
Rising & Revolving made the point I was gonna make: shitplay, serial killers, Nazis and teenage locker room boyporn are utter Teh Darqqe Syde cliches (add The 100 Greatest Sharks, and you've got an average evening's viewing on Channel 5); Sypha's "dark side" would be those truly scary things he's constantly making excuses for not confronting - the need to get out of the parental home, interact with human beings, do stuff rather than ruminate endlessly about it online. Take a shred of responsibility for himself.

At the risk of appearing more interested in this month's encopretic offering than I actually am, a couple more brief observations:

I'm not aware of Julian Schabel's oeuvre being a diagnostic test of paedophilia or pederasty. If Sypha found adolescents in speedos "taboo and exciting", then that's what he found taboo and exciting. No need to rationalise it as a Voyage to Teh Darqqe Syde, the desires of a reincarnated ancient Greek or daring intellectual edge-play on his part. It was wank-fodder, it apparently excited our qlipponaut spamchum. Why dress it up?

What's the point in posting this at all, Sypha? You're not interested in advice, certainly not to the degree that you'd actually act upon it. It's the same old solipsistic look-at-me, with every response just another excuse to expound upon the fascinatingly multi-faceted (if non-evolving) Wonder of You. You need to discover the Wonder of People Other Than Sypha. This hackneyed old bollocks is more pathetic than "monstrous".
 
 
daynah
20:23 / 25.09.05
I'm in a dark place, all alone...
 
 
Ria
21:12 / 25.09.05
guys, knock it off. every time you say, "change the broken record" without adding anything new, the more you sound like a broken record yourself. and I sound like a meta-meta-broken record pointing it out. read Ill-matic's post. sheesh.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:15 / 25.09.05
Ria has a point. It might not be a bad idea to lock this thread now; I don't think we're making a lot of progress. Maybe there's a discussion to be had on the whole Journey To The Ick Side Of The Soul and its use as a magical tool, but this ain't that discussion.
 
 
--
21:42 / 25.09.05
One of the primary goals of this topic was to get other people to relate their own excursions into their dark side, as was clearly mentioned in the initial post (I shared my own story to get the ball rolling). Sadly, not many people stuck to the topic and instead chose to focus on my quirks, as usual, which should be expected as people on here tend to focus more on my personality and less on the actual content of what I'm posting. It's frustrating, but again, not surprising. If one of the powers-that-be had posted something similiar everyone else would have been "oohing" and "aahing" and bending over backwards, but because I'm a scapegoat in general around here such commentary is shunned. Ah well. At least I have the luxury of being totally honest, seeing as I have very little respect to lose around here. For my honesty, I am castigated. Such is life.

The serial killer thing IS old hat, and the initial post wasn't about serial killers at all. Where did you get that? (and for the record, Ian Brady wasn't abused as a child, he had a perfectly normal upbringing).

I don't know where all this bullshit is coming from that I don't "interact" with other people. Hell, working with the public is my JOB. If I had no communication skills, I wouldn't be working where I am now, for I need to be able to communicate with people on a regular basis. If you want to specify and say that I don't have much "friendly" interaction with other people, that would be a little more on the nose. But this isn't because I'm afraid of talking to other people, it is mainly because I find most people dull and only certain people catch my attention as being worthwhile. I'm not one of those types who needs a huge group of friends to be happy: For me, I can find satisfaction in just a simple conversation with one person. But it seems that society labels you a freakshow if you're not terribly social or don't have a lot of sex. But just because society says something doesn't mean it's true.

I find it horribly appalling and cynical that other people don't see this as "dark stuff". God, what ever happened to morals? No matter what way you look at it, this is just horrible, horrible stuff, and I find it very scary and offensive, and I'm shocked other people just see it as banal, everyday stuff. How jaded have we become as a society? I'd have to be a real sicko not to find it that way. Are you implying that I don't hate Nazis, or serial killers, or things of that sort? Those types of people nauseate me, and of course I fear them. All my other fears are utterly banal. Diseases, mostly. What do you want me to do... give myself AIDS? What would that solve?

Toksik, if you can't be civil I see no reason at all why I should even bother to listen to what you have to say.

Bottom line, I'm unpopular because I don't fit OTHER people's standards, even if most of those standards hold little interest to me. Because I won't conform to those people's expectations of how I should be, I am villified. It's sad that people are so opposed to individuality and difference of viewpoints. Do I castigate you because your viewpoint of life isn't similar to mine? People are different, no one thinks alike, there is no litmus test for "normal". A lot of people around here are so intimidated by the status quo that they avoid posting certain topics or points of view on here because they know they'll be taunted. They've told me so in private. But I'm ouspoken, and if I see something I don't agree with, I speak my mind. But I certainly don't try to intimidate others to conform to my belief systems. Many others feel this way, but they won't say anything because they don't want to rock the boat. But if I see injustices before me, how can I remain mute?

Trying to steer this back on topic... Ria, would you like to go into a little more detail about these violent fantasies? If not on here, you can PM me, I'd love to hear more.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:50 / 25.09.05
Sadly, not many people stuck to the topic and instead chose to focus on my quirks

Sypha, your first post seemed mostly to be about your quirks. It was pretty much entirely personal; it didn't really tell us much about anything except the books you've been reading ect.

And people here are horrified by the kinds of crime that you've brought up here. I don't see how you can look at the rest of the board and pretend you don't see that. It's the concept of exploring one's own dark side via this kind of material that has people going all rolleyesy.

Yeah, you're coming in for flack here, and I'm sorry, but I don't think you've really thought all this through in a very realistic way.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:58 / 25.09.05
If one of the powers-that-be had posted something similiar everyone else would have been "oohing" and "aahing" and bending over backwards, but because I'm a scapegoat in general around here such commentary is shunned.

Do you realise that the "powers that be" around here are well thought-of partly because they don't post topics like this?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:00 / 25.09.05
Oh man, I'm just going to step away from this thread now. I'm getting all worked up and shouty and it's really not going to help anyone.
 
 
Ria
22:05 / 25.09.05
sorry, Sypha, I won't do it. some stuff I keep to myself.
 
 
--
22:13 / 25.09.05
Sure, close the thread, I don't give a fuck.
 
 
Ganesh
22:25 / 25.09.05
... because I'm a scapegoat in general around here such commentary is shunned...

No, your commentary is "shunned" because you've demonstrated, time and time again, that you're interested in little/nothing other than talking about yourself, at great length. It's the same bleeding commentary, and it's always you you you.

Don't pull a "I can't believe people here aren't horrified by this stuff" moue simply because no-one's especially shocked or impressed by the mundanity of your supposed Darqqe Syde. It has been pointed out by several of us that the stuff that evidently scares the bejesus out of you, Sypha, is taking responsibility for your life - and, in the context of that biiig Sypha-specific terror, all this child murderer/Nazi/pederast crap is so much window-dressing, just another way of wallowing in Lake Sypha avoiding having to go outside and interact with living, breathing human beings. Teh Darqqe Commfort Blanket.

You're really not worth even this minor amount of hassle. I'm taking Ria's advice now, and leaving you to yourself.
 
 
--
22:41 / 25.09.05
Well, don't worry, soon you won't have to put up with me at all.

Ciao.
 
 
Ganesh
22:51 / 25.09.05
*sets watch*
 
 
--
23:17 / 25.09.05
A
 
 
w1rebaby
23:19 / 25.09.05
Bottom line, I'm unpopular because I don't fit OTHER people's standards, even if most of those standards hold little interest to me. Because I won't conform to those people's expectations of how I should be, I am villified.

Quite correct. You don't fit the standards of how people think a reasonable poster should behave so, yeah, people don't like you. You don't take honestly-offered advice because you're scared of doing so, and so people who've been offering you advice that you've asked for think you're a cock.

Do you feel enlightened now?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:24 / 25.09.05
Actually, Sypha has had the courage of his convictions, it seems, and has emailed me asking me to change his login to stop himself from being able to log in to Barbelith. I agreed to do this for a week before changing it back, which will hopefully give him a bit of free space and time to pursue other interests.
 
 
w1rebaby
23:25 / 25.09.05
You can change logins now?
 
 
Ganesh
23:29 / 25.09.05
Can you stop me from buying white chocolate Magnums, Haus? I'm trying to lose weight.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:45 / 25.09.05
Put this in your mouth, G. DON'T CHEW!
 
 
illmatic
07:04 / 26.09.05
If you do end up reading this, Sypha, you might find the following essay interesting (it's from someone who actually has worked with the qlipoth).

Fred Fowler The Problem of Evil

Definitely getting tired of hearing and reading the satanic, evil, and darkside connections which are simply not there in my experience. The relationships are hard to grasp, and even more difficult to explain ...

More serious is the developing view of the darkside as a repository or inventory (a kind of warehouse?) of all the bad shit of our humankind species: the darkside as resident by human impulses and actions to rape, murder, and whatever else we 20th century people think is nasty stuff to do or even to think about. Perhaps it's Christianity (?) mixed up with some pop psychology and magical thinking (no "k")?

For the record: for L and me there is not a thing satanic or evil in the darkside. Such constructs simply have no meaning in this realm. They are strictly dayside, strictly human, and for me strictly bullshit. Oh yes, the USA produced over 20,000 murders last year, countless rapes, and even more countless acts of senseless and sick brutality. How many were killed, and continue to die, in Iraq, S. Africa, Liberia, El Salvador, Guatemala, etc., etc.? I could tell you how many children were abused, that 20% plus of children in this country live in poverty, but I think my point is clear. All of this horror exists in this dayside, human world. In my view, the recognition of all this is so threatening to personality integrity that few are even willing to see it, open their eyes and hearts and minds to their own stink and meanness as a race/species of the dayside world.


He seems to be positing that the qlipoth, such as it is, is something else, something other than simply our destructive, anti-social, nasty side. Which is a much more interesting and creative model to me.
 
 
Ganesh
19:14 / 26.09.05
Put this in your mouth, G. DON'T CHEW!

B..But everyone in my family has eaten white chocolate Magnums. It's genetic. It's right up there on the allele next to the Staying With Yer Parents When Yer 25 gene.

YOU MUST STOP ME! I'LL GET FAT(TER)!!
 
 
Quantum
12:25 / 27.09.05
I'm of the firm belief that consciously doing something that's likely to result in making a total and utter tit of yourself is one of the most magical acts you can perform. Mordanta Carnivale

Like changing your password to ban yourself and then coming back?

So this thread *is* a magical act, like eating white chocolate Magnums.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:46 / 27.09.05
On this subject, I was looking through Nema's quite odd but at times quite brilliant book "Maat Magick" last night, and there's a lot in that about invoking what she calls the "Forgotten Ones". I think a lot of that material went into the concept of the Archons as represented in the Invisibles. It involves exploring and incorporating the kind of dark material that this thread purportedly deals with. Nema reckons you shouldnt jump into them waters until you've attained knowledge and conversation of yer HGA, as otherwise you're not up to the task. You need to be strong and established in Malkuth, Yesod, Hod, Netzach and Tiphareth - before you should tackle integrating the Forgotten Ones. Considering that Nema, and by extension Kenny G, are pretty much the primary sources for all of the stuff that Grant Morrison has represented in the Filth and in the Invisibles, and which has inspired the Syph - it is advice that's perhaps worth paying some attention to.
 
  

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