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Revolution/Wii Controller Announced!

 
  

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I'm Rick Jones, bitch
03:28 / 16.09.05
I'm not lying either:



OH NINTENDO : (
 
 
wicker woman
04:45 / 16.09.05
Looking over the fact that there's no possible way only 5 buttons could handle the amount of functionality demanded by modern games without being extremely inconvenient and that whatever that picture is of is lacking the "touch screen" or whatever it is that Nintendo's been making such a big deal out of... where exactly did you get that?
 
 
madfigs #32, now with wasabi
05:00 / 16.09.05
If anyone is interested in more than just looking at the picture and dismissing it out of hand, here's an initial rundown of what it does. Its main feature seems to be motion detection - you're not just going to use the little d-pad and button, you can wave the thing around and it'll register like that. There's also a port for plugins which you hold in the other hand, like an analog joystick. This article theorizes about how the controller will work with existing genres, and suggests some new things it will make possible. Of course, the big test will be how well it works - if it's anything like that damn gyroscope for the NES I'm not going anywhere near it.

Anyway, I don't want to start another console war here, but as of right now Revolution is the only next-gen console I'm even thinking about buying. There's such a huge backlog of incredible games for PS2 and X-Box that I haven't played yet, unless there's some compelling new advance in the 360 or PS3 (other than online gaming), I'd just as soon stick with my current consoles. Nintendo is REALLY setting themselves apart with this one, and I kinda hope it turns out to be cool.
 
 
wicker woman
05:03 / 16.09.05
Since the picture was really all I was given to work with, I wouldn't exactly call my reaction unwarranted. I'll check out the links a bit later.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
06:43 / 16.09.05
Hey, lets all be super quick to react!

Reading about the controller here I have to say its got me interested. It's a light gun! It's a nes controller! It's... actually different!
 
 
The Strobe
06:47 / 16.09.05
Once again, I am too busy to respond right now, but I'd like to say that that picture is very unrepresentative.

I'm pretty convinced that the Revolution controller is one of the most important things to happen to games right now. I'll explain why later. But yeah, I'm blown away. To summarise, though:

Nintendo are playing a long game.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
06:56 / 16.09.05
Yes. YES. I agree. Not much time right now, but...

Check the video out here.

The more I think about this, the more exciting it is. The possiblities for play, and play in completely different ways is just immense.
 
 
Tom DS
08:10 / 16.09.05
My initial reaction was 'what a mess!' but it does makes sense in terms of Nintendo differentiating themselves from Sony and MS. Pretty much the same reaction I had when the DS was first announced. And I think that decision has been vindicated in terms of sales and the creative sucesses of the games.

Nintendo have a good record of leading the pack when it comes to controller design, pretty much every major innovation since the days of the NES has been down to them (d-pad, shoulder buttons, analogue controll, rumble, from what i recall Nintendo was first for each). So although I have some reservations i.e. it looks like a tv control, I don't think Nintendo would take this kind of decision lightly. Anyway, I'm pretty much guaranteed to be buying one of these (esp given it's small size and predicted low price compared to Sony and MS's machines)

Also : "Mr. Naka [at Sega] really likes this controller."
Could this mean a new version of NiGHTS? As a (kind of) closet Sega fanboy this makes me happy.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
12:46 / 16.09.05
This would be awesome if, say, it was like the Power Glove or Light Zapper - an optional controller for the kind of niche games it's going to be used for. At least the DS is still an extremely capable traditional contol mechanisim while having all that extra shit, y'know?

As it is, I expect it to scare off third party support like the console was called the Nintendo Pedophile. I don't expect to play much more than Nintendo games on this. I was hoping the Rev would see Nintendo bursting out of their niche, but it looks like they decided to dig a lot deeper.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:01 / 16.09.05
What, you bought the N64 and Cube for the third-party support?

Those developers and publishers who are capable of creating games that do somehting truly new will be in their element. Sega, Capcom, Konami, Nintendo themselves. If a company is incapable of being able to create something that uses a different control mechanism to the regular one, or unwilling to do so, then screw them - it's doubtful that they've got much of interest to present anyway, if that's the case. So the Rev might not get Need for Speed 63. I don't see anybody losing much sleep over that, really - not gamers, not Nintendo. EA might be pissed off that they can't increase their profit margins through the usual lazy tactics, but that's all the better for the rest of us.

This is what I've been saying for a while now, though - Nintendo clearly have no interest in a head-to-head battle with Microsoft or Sony. They know that doing that is pointless.

They create stuff that appeals to their exisiting fanbase and newcomers first and foremost. They know that their fans will stick by them, provided that they can make something that looks interesting and different, and they know that there's still a huge untapped market of people who don't currently play games, so they focus their attention on them - it guarantees that they don't lose any custom, but it also provides them with a whole bunch of new customers who previously never existed.

Then they go for the disenfranchised, the people who are bored with playing the exact same games. Finally, they get the curious - those who hear the others talking about the machine and figure that it might be worth giving it a go.

It's a clever, intelligent strategy. They deserve to do well out of it. Provded the games are there, of course.

By the way, Dudley, have you actually read any of the content on those links above? You know, the stuff about how the analogue controller bit fits inside shells? That immediately negates your comment about it not functioning as a traditional controller.

Amusing that you were all for innovation when the DS was announced and engaged in some trollish arguing about how the PSP was rubbish because it failed to do the same, yet are now arguing against a similar level of innovation - greater, possibly - where the Revolution is concerned. Amusing and depressing, like a lot of the unimaginative stupidity posted on the Internet today. Everybody wants something different, then when something truly different comes along them attack it on sight, because they've not bothered to spend any time thinking about the possibilities or they just can't get their heads around it. I don't understand it, therefore it's shit. So many knees jerking all at once that it's threatening to twist the planet on its axis, like that old tale about what'd happen if everybody in China jumped up and down at exactly the same time.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
15:28 / 16.09.05
By the way, Dudley, have you actually read any of the content on those links above? You know, the stuff about how the analogue controller bit fits inside shells? That immediately negates your comment about it not functioning as a traditional controller.

Until said controller shell is actually created and anounced I'll mark it under "pre-launch banter, possibly not going to actually happen".

Amusing that you were all for innovation when the DS was announced and engaged in some trollish arguing about how the PSP was rubbish because it failed to do the same, yet are now arguing against a similar level of innovation - greater, possibly - where the Revolution is concerned. Amusing and depressing, like a lot of the unimaginative stupidity posted on the Internet today. Everybody wants something different, then when something truly different comes along them attack it on sight, because they've not bothered to spend any time thinking about the possibilities or they just can't get their heads around it. I don't understand it, therefore it's shit. So many knees jerking all at once that it's threatening to twist the planet on its axis, like that old tale about what'd happen if everybody in China jumped up and down at exactly the same time.

Mind not being so rude? Thanks! DS was a very different thing - for one it's portable, and a good portable game involves different things to a home system game. Not only that, but the DS has pretty great traditional controls on it, which is why mine's had knowt but Astroboy in for the last month. The DS wasn't a non-sequiter, whereas this clearly is. I think everyone was allowed at least one WTF moment on this, just because it's so weird and unexpected.

I've actually come around on this, but I still think they need to ship the Rev with a Wavebird...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:59 / 16.09.05
Until said controller shell is actually created and anounced I'll mark it under "pre-launch banter, possibly not going to actually happen".

The following apparently from Jim Merrick, their Head of European Marketing. I'm trying to find a source.

We'll be showing the 'Classic Style Expansion' at some point in the future. This will be a unit into which the standard Revolution handset slides. This will create a wireless standard controller built to Nintendo's usual high standards and will enable play for SNES, Nintendo 64 and other Revolution games – so we will have a great game pad too.

As for this:

Mind not being so rude? Thanks!

Mind putting a bit more thought into your contributions to this part of the board, especially where opening posts are concerned? Thanks! It's not like you've not been asked before.

The Revolution is, as has been made clear since E3, compatible with standard Gamecube controllers.
 
 
Triplets
16:01 / 16.09.05
Cool! An iPod Shuffle!
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
16:09 / 16.09.05
You know, I was actually going to type something in this post but what's the point?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:29 / 16.09.05
Dudley, you've repeatedly been asked to put more meat onto your posts here, both in public and in private. If you're not going to prove yourself capable of doing that, then no, there is no point.

Now, you can turn this thread into your own little strop again because you've been picked up for starting it in a manner that wouldn't have been out of place on any of the more spammy gaming boards - the sort of board that this one was set up to be an antidote to - and asked to raise your game, but I'm sure everybody else who's posted to it so far would much rather that didn't happen, okay?

The Merrick quote is from this interview. Note that he's saying games will be playable at E3 2006. Spaceworld's still on this year, isn't it? Could be that proper software will be shown in non-playable form then. Or, rather, not playable in public terms.

I find the comment that there's not been a public demonstration of the controller being used with any software - even preliminary, demo stuff - because they don't want attention to be taken away from the controller itself and put onto how the graphics tech of the Rev matches up to the 360 and PS3 to be a little sus. That's part of the reason why there's already so much knee jerk about it - because people aren't being allowed to see it in action. Even those simple games that the 1UP piece mentions would have been nice to see - hell, if they don't look any more sophisticated than Pong that could even have worked out well for Nintendo's marketing arm, reinforce the message that it's all about a new method of play, not how many triangles are being thrown around on the screen.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:45 / 16.09.05
Jesus. I can't believe it's taken me until now to realise this.

You know how loads of people were presuming that the Rev controller was going to incorporate some form of touchscreen? And how that idea was obviously a bit thick, because you'd have to keep looking down at the controller to be able to replace your thumb or whatever on the bit you wanted to touch, which'd lead to the entire thing being the exact opposite of the user-friendly, beginner-friendly solution that Nintendo were supposedly researching?

The Rev controller turns your TV into the touchscreen. It's a virtual finger.

(Incidentally, while I don't know that I agree with the sentiment yet, this is probably the most amusing of the Rev controller jokes doing the rounds right now.)
 
 
---
00:46 / 17.09.05
Ahh, so that's where Dudley went, he turned into Rick Jones, bitch.

That controller looks odd, but after reading that it fits inside shells or something, and that you can use other pads if you want, then it can't be that bad.

As for buying one of the machines that it works on, I think I'd buy one almost solely for whatever Zelda game comes out on it, because it's sure to be a huge advancement.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
02:01 / 17.09.05
It's a virtual finger

Not just a finger, but potentially a virtual Sword, gun and pointy stick. If it really works well, or at least a lot better than that arcade game where you whiffle a big brown plastic stick at demon samurai with no discernable effect, then it should make the Revolution worth buying. Two of the controllers can also be linked together in 'Nunchaku mode' (not Nintendo's word for it) for even more features.
Still, does look a whole lot like an iPod shuffle doesn't it?
 
 
COG
13:26 / 17.09.05
I'm excited. Good for left handed players too. Are traditional controllers awkward for leftys? Never thought about that.
We love Nintendo, and Nintendo loves us too.
I'm toying with buying a DS right now, and I'm soon to be sharing a house with a Gamecube, so this can go on my wishlist quite happily.
 
 
robertk
14:37 / 18.09.05
I never found traditional controllers to be awkward or unsuitably designed for lefties. It's not like you have to put much fine motorial co-ordination into pushing buttons.

As for the rev-controller: First thing that came to my mind was that it could work, could well be the thing we've all waited for. At least it sounds very promising. But so did the light-gun, the virtual boy, or crystal pepsi, for that matter.

Really depends on the games, and on how long one is willing to hold one's hand up in front of a TV. I mean, playing video games has always had a certain factor of "assume a comfortable position and make sure you have everything you need in an arm's range". No fatigue pauses inclined.

What I mean is, the player will not only have to adjust for new types of game plays but also for a new type of playing behavior. I am definitely willing to but imo it is a pretty big step.
 
 
COG
17:49 / 18.09.05
Thinking about how this will act like a PC mouse for FPS games, lead me to think how it could be used to finally make a usable RTS on a console. Laser pointer style unit selection, zooming in & out of the action, more possibilities than you can shake a white, wireless, rumbling stick at.
 
 
semioticrobotic
20:34 / 18.09.05
When I was talking to my best friend about the controller, I made a grammar typo.

In one sentence, I wrote "you're controller becomes a sword" instead of "your controller becomes a sword."

But that made me think: isn't the point of the Revolution "you're controller" more so than "your controller"?
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
22:10 / 18.09.05
This looks fantastic. I haven't been this excited about a new console since the N64. I'm confident that this will be a quality item, too. Nintendo always makes the best controllers.

As for comfort, I think I read that you can just rest it on your thigh like a regular controller. You don't actually swing it around like a sword. After all, unless you sit really close to the TV, a little wrist action is all it takes to cover the whole screen.
 
 
iamus
12:53 / 19.09.05
Squeeeeesus Christ! I think is the appropriate response here.

This is the controller I've been wanting since I was about six. Not to get ahead of myself, but it seems that Nintendo have single-handedly addressed everything that is currently frustrating me about games.

I love this recent drive to make games more tactile. Being that videogaming is the most interactive of the arts it makes so much sense to explore ways in which to better meld the player with the game. I'd like to see a lot more "installation" type games along the lines of electroplankton. It seems like it's a controller made for messing around. Something for getting right inside your games, turning stuff over, zooming in on the little details, curious observation as well as sword-swinging balls-to-the-wall action.

My head's buzzing. There are a thousand wonderful ways in which this can be used. Laser-pointer RTS and slick-control FPS simply isn't thinking big enough. I want to be able to zoom right in on my little footsoldier, pick him up, inspect the scratches on the soles of his boots then fling him away and fuck about in the sand for half an hour.

Really, this has nothing but potential and I can't fucking wait. It seems like Nintendo may well be ready to change what videogames are about. They have a real chance of pulling games out of the corporate mire that they're disappearing into and evolving the market into a more diversified and all-inclusive place. It'll be interesting to see how Nintendo treat the smaller independant developers, because these are exactly the people who belong on Revolution and will show everybody what it is capable of.

There's still a lot of ground to cover before any of this potentially happens, but this and many other things mean that this is shaping up to be one of the most interesting years for gaming in a long time. I haven't been as excited about the possibilities of what could be on the horizon since I first sat down with Mario 64.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
12:54 / 19.09.05
I love enthusiasm!
 
 
rising and revolving
14:18 / 19.09.05
I'm exceptionally excited about the possibilities this opens up. The DS has been fantastic in terms of providing the chance to develop games than simply can't be done on other platforms - this is like that to the nth degree.

Hopefully I can talk one of our publishers into letting me play ...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:52 / 19.09.05
Be interested to see what the response is, rising. My immediate suspicion is similar to Mel's - that the people who'll come up with the most interesting Rev software will be the smaller development teams or those working for publishers who've managed to keep their sense for adventure. Those people whose first thought isn't for profit, or who aren't at the beck and call of those with that sort of outlook, I suppose.

Wonder if Nintendo are going to set out similar rules to those they throw at DS developers - that all software has to use the things that make the hardware unique, that it has to be something that couldn't be done on another machine. Also wonder, if they do, how soon it'll be before we see developers interpreting those rules in the laziest way possible (can you say Nanostray?).

The controller design cements their reasons for going with DVD as the storage medium this time around - controller looks like a TV/DVD remote, makes sense that the games should come on DVD. Also follows this whole idea of creating something that doesn't scare newcomers off through being unfamiliar.
 
 
semioticrobotic
00:03 / 20.09.05
Randychu The controller design cements their reasons for going with DVD as the storage medium this time around - controller looks like a TV/DVD remote, makes sense that the games should come on DVD.

Can you point me to a source for information about the storage media used on the Rev?

I'm not asking this to be stand-offish or because I'm trying to take you to task; I've just never read anything about the chosen media and want t bone up.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:17 / 20.09.05
I've obviously missed something along the way. It seems that the original announcement was muddled - see here. Plays DVDs, but the games will be on a proprietary medium again.
 
 
ORA ORA ORA ORAAAA!!
14:02 / 20.09.05
As soon as I saw this, I got horrible flashbacks of the Olde Consolee Warse, and began to feel faint.

Then I thought about it for a little while, and began to feel faint because I am so fucking excited about having a controller like this. I mean, I stopped trying to jump higher by jerking the controller up and to the right years ago... but I sort of miss it.

Also, I really do think that nintendo is going for the independent developers with the Rev. Even if it's unofficial. If there's going to be an emulator for every nintendo console evar in there (as rumored), then people who have been building SNES games and N64 demos and so on already have a leg up. If we can potentially download games over the internet from anywhere, and if nintendo fosters a homebrew scene like the current pc demo scene... I cannot finish thoughts because there's too many bits at the end of them.

I could be wrong, and they could close down incredibly tightly on what they let the rev access over the 'net, but I don't think they will, or that it'd stop people for long if they did.

Also also, I haven't been this excited about almost anything for years. I love nintendo. heh.
 
 
semioticrobotic
10:58 / 21.09.05
Thanks, Randychu.

I have to say: It would be nice to have my Rev play DVDs. My iMac's Superdrive would also come in handy if the Rev used double-layer discs as its primary game storage medium, too...
 
 
rising and revolving
20:12 / 21.09.05
"Wonder if Nintendo are going to set out similar rules to those they throw at DS developers - that all software has to use the things that make the hardware unique, that it has to be something that couldn't be done on another machine. Also wonder, if they do, how soon it'll be before we see developers interpreting those rules in the laziest way possible (can you say Nanostray?)."

They're already easing up on those requirements - now they just say it has to use *something* (either the mic, or wireless, or the touchscreen) instead of saying they have to use everything.

"I could be wrong, and they could close down incredibly tightly on what they let the rev access over the 'net, but I don't think they will, or that it'd stop people for long if they did."

I think they will. Nintendo have never been very developer friendly, let alone homebrew friendly. I don't expect this to change - Nintendo consoles are, primarily, for playing Nintendo games.

I could be wrong, but among other things Nintendo are very Japanese, and very much consider everything that appears on their console to be speaking on their behalf. They've always had the most stringent process for greenlighting : I cannot conceive of them suddenly opening the gates to anyone who so desires.

Nor have I seen *anything* in their statements so far that indicates they're thinking of going this way. The fact that it's technically feasible doesn't change much - it's been technically feasible for a long time. The reasons for this specific technology being integrated is so they can continue to get mileage out of their own titles. See Animal Crossing and the NES rerelease on GBA (via card reader) for more examples of this pattern.

And it won't stop people who want to install extra hardware, but what does that do, ultimately? You can emulate the NES already (and the SNES, and the GBA and so on) and download those games off the net ... but that hasn't resulted in a fiesty homebrew community. Neither will this, in my impression.
 
 
ORA ORA ORA ORAAAA!!
14:46 / 22.09.05
This article is very interesting, and also suggests that Nintendo is being more open to small developers. Which is nice.

My point was that there will be (well, Iawata has said, at some point) emulators for the old systems already built into the Revolution. There are already development kits for the old systems available in various places online, and if you have a look here, or other demo sites, you'll see that the majority of the homebrew games being developed are for nintendo's older machines (Well, the true majority would be for PC, but that's sort of beside the point). Combining this with the fact that there's already plans for an online content delivery service, and it's going to be easier than it has been for decades for a small garage developer to get games to a major console (probably).

Which can only be a good thing for an industry as generally stagnant as the games industry is these days (probably).

To clarify: I don't expect a rapid about-face on external developers, and I don't expect them to be soliciting homebrew games, but I do expect it to get progressively easier for both on nintendo products this generation.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:47 / 22.09.05
Yeah, but I doubt that's ever going to be something that happens officially. Somebody will find a way of getting full Internet access on the Rev through some form of hardware modification, which'll then open the doors to the homebrew people, but the unmodified hardware will, I'd imagine, support online play and downloadable content in much the same way as the Xbox does - through a locked-down system of menus.
 
 
ORA ORA ORA ORAAAA!!
01:37 / 23.09.05
I don't see why hardware modification would be needed. It's got an 802.11b connection built in (again, apparently), which it'll use to connect to your home internet connection to download content from nintendo. The worst that'd be required to get other stuff on the machine would be a hosts file redirect from your router, telling the machine that nintendo was over there, yes, in that darkened i.p. alley, where another server is set up to pretend to be nintendo... But that's not a hardware modification at all.

There's already been a product that does this sort of thing (network redirecting on the sly) for the local area network adapter for the gamecube, WarpPipe.

I'm surprised that no-one's delivered content to the xbox this way.

Anyway, reining in the Noble Steed Speculation until it has some more fodder to chew on.
 
  

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