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7 Soldiers: Frankenstein

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Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

16:38 / 02.05.06

Okay: Li'l Franky! So cute. SO GODDAMN CUTE.

05:00 / 03.05.06

loved this final issue! rarrrrrrrr

neh-bu-loh = greg feely, shot in the face [= his own private escathon/crisis]. great meta-metaphor.

glorianna doing her villain-explaining-the-plan was cool, huh? the way society as a whole [including cultural aspects, not only people] is seen as crop.

but see, this will sound stupid but it's one thing i don't get: if glori & the sheeda come FROM obyl to eat our reality [as it's stabilished and repeated throuhout the series], why did she had to go TO obyl with frank hot on her tentacles?

i mean, what if the glorianna he meets is the one that was just about to come to our time [or even ystine's time] to eat everything up? or was she simply here but went obyl to call her army to help her in the 21s century?

so, what if frank invading castle revolving might have made him getting past the setting-things-up glorianna, and arrive obyl moments before she came into our time/camelot? it worked with ystin...

hope this made sense to you guys.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:25 / 03.05.06

Franky #4 seemed Invisible-tastic. Frank Versus Nebuloh like King Mob Versus the King of Tears, the Ultramarines injected into the infant universe as innoculation, the far future of the Sheeda like the Outer Church, the descriptions of the Sheeda Queen very similar to the descriptions of Miss Dwyer at the end of series one of The Invisibles.

Is Issue 1 going to be a rescue mission? Not all the first lot of soldiers are dead and the Sheeda are our children.

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:51 / 03.05.06

but see, this will sound stupid but it's one thing i don't get: if glori & the sheeda come FROM obyl to eat our reality [as it's stabilished and repeated throuhout the series], why did she had to go TO obyl with frank hot on her tentacles?

It's not really any more complicated or wonky than the way most recurring instances of time travel are treated in comics and other genre fiction. The Sheeda's base of operations is one billion years from now, and they can make sorties back and forth into the past, laying the groundwork for the big attack.

One of the things I liked about this issue is that it takes a degree of pressure off the final Seven Soldiers book-end: while there are no doubt still a lot of fairy folk for Guardian to bash in the head in Manhattan, Franky has taken out a huge chunk of their invasion force in one fell swoop... Simple solutions to complicated problems. Shooting people in the face. He's my kind of guy.

09:46 / 03.05.06

Lady: oh, you got it! the whole series is mounting to a distilled INVISIBLES.

Flyboy: thanks, makes sense, although I'm still a wee bit lost...

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

13:10 / 03.05.06

i think its kind of a self fullfilling prophect isn't it?

The Sheeda know they are in charge OBYL, and they have historical records of their past attacks on humanity (even if they are myth to us, to them they are an obvious history). The Queen knows that her people attacked camelot because she reads about it, so she sends her people to attack camelot. Whenever the history shows a group 7 gathering together she sends people to kill them. When a harrowing is due, she sends her harrower ships back and fucks shit up, leaving just enough people so that a few thousand years later she can do it again.

I'm not sure when she would have picked up Nebby to work for her. Question: How many Ultramarines were sent into cube Nebby? Was it 7? I would hope so. The innoculation of the universe is Seven Soldiers, and thats why the Queen keeps killing them, because the Sheeda are the sickness.

17:38 / 04.05.06

So Frank is featured on the final double page splash scene in IC 7. He survivies SS1, along with, er, everybody else except maybe Shiloh? And he's already escaped death...

17:44 / 04.05.06

I'm starting to put together a theory about what will happen to Shilo. But I'm not sure what thread to put it in.

18:22 / 04.05.06

Maybe this one?

BrianFitzgerald

02:44 / 05.05.06

I've been trying not to indulge my inner fanboy, but the wife and kids are out of town for a few days and there are a lot of alcoholic beverages in the fridge tonight and they say that your judgement is the first casualty of a full-on lager assault, so...the Vixen thing.

Please correct me if I'm misremembering, but Vixen is clearly shown, both in Morrison's JLA: Classified arc and in Frankenstein 4, to be one of the Ultramarines sent into Qwewq. Yet, Vixen is also clearly shown fighting the good fight against the Society in the Villians United 8C Special and in Infinite Crisis 7, right?

Now, I know that I can always fall back on the "Lucy Lawless Rule" (a wizard did it), but I'm wondering if this issue might have been addressed in a DC book that I don't read (and there are many of those), e.g. "Vixen! But I thought--" "No, that was my sister/cousin/doppelganger. Please, I'm JLA, like I would ever waste time with the Ultramarines!"

Or, if there's been any indication in any of the recent [8C/52/Morrison is making the DCU sentient, madman that he is] interviews/previews/hype that we will eventually get to see more of what happened to the Ultramarines after they entered Qwewq.

I know that the simplest solution to this dilemma is editorial blundering. I just have this great scene in my mind of Superman and/or J'onn re-entering Qwewq to retrieve the Ultramarines after a few years, and Vixen being all "Get me out of here!" and Beryl being all "Sod off! We've barely started! But tell Batman I think I've found a way to talk to it..."

03:34 / 05.05.06

I know that the simplest solution to this dilemma is editorial blundering

William of Ockham at work.

Man With Business Concerns Cares Not For Continuity.

I'm sure Morrison doesn't care, either. Maybe Vixen got out of Neh-Buh-Loh in a fantastic untold tale called 'ESCAPE FROM UNIVERSE N!'. Maybe not.

10:51 / 05.05.06

That wasn't Vixen. On the last page of JLA:C #3 we see the six Ultramarines that went in, and while there is an African-American woman, she does not have the same hairstyle that Vixen did, earlier in the issue. But she DOES have the same hairstyle as 4-D.

11:10 / 05.05.06

That's too bad. I was hoping we could write off a whole bunch of superfluous supers. If those Qwewq panels indicate who's been shrunk, then there's a bevy of Ultramarines still in the DCU available for Fantasy Justice Leagues.

Vixen(BoP), Little Mermaid, Fleur de Lis, Kid Impala, Tasmanian Devil, Olympian, Goraiko, and Glob

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:12 / 05.05.06

All this talk about Vixen and "8C" seems to me to be a tangled knot that requires a simple, elegant solution involving a really big sword. And some guns.

11:26 / 05.05.06

I'm pretty sure Olympian shows up in 8C #7, in the big splash with the Supermen & Doomsday. While I don't immediately recognize the others with him, I wouldn't be surprised if they were on your list.

Spyder Todd 2008

14:15 / 05.05.06

All this talk about Vixen and "8C" seems to me to be a tangled knot that requires a simple, elegant solution involving a really big sword. And some guns.

"Frankenstein: Universal Rescue!"

15:47 / 05.05.06

Question: How many Ultramarines were sent into cube Nebby? Was it 7?

I'd like to go back and count them, but I foolishly sent my copies of JLA:C out with the recycling in the mistaken belief that the miniseries would eventually be collected. In retrospect, it's probably more than a little unlikely given the low page count...

16:45 / 05.05.06

My copy is handy.

We only see six Ultramarines at the end, inside Qwewq.

Based on the art, going from left to right, they are:

Knight II, Squire III, Jack O' Lantern (II, I think), 4-D, Warmaker One, and a hooded fellow that is probably Master. My guess is that Flow & Goraiko are too inhuman to be effective for infiltration, and the others (Olympian, Vixen, Kid Impala, Tasmanian Devil, and Fleur-du-lis) weren't in the inner circle.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

16:48 / 05.05.06

Bah. Another theory for the waste bin.

Thanks for the info Mario.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

16:54 / 05.05.06

Ah, but if only six went in ... well. That would explain their mostly-failure, yes?

17:44 / 05.05.06

That it could. They should have taken Glob along.

11:46 / 15.05.06

Any thoughts on why Neh-Buh-Loh says he is t h r e e billion years old?

12:24 / 15.05.06

B e c a u s e h e i s ?

20:20 / 15.05.06

Wouldn't that make him 2 billion years older than the sheeda?

21:03 / 15.05.06

He's a universe. And we've already seen his larval state on Pluto, which we can only assume to be already 2 billion years old. Plus, he travels through time. Only god knows the linear path his relative time has taken while inside of our four dimensions. He could live the same year over and over and over for millenia.

Go watch Primer.

18:17 / 16.05.06

Wouldn't that make him 2 billion years older than the sheeda?

While Cassandra's answer is great the correct reponse is: so? Why is that so important to you, Harry?

18:37 / 16.05.06

Hell, we're older than the Sheeda, since we're here, born right around now (well, a while ago, but closer than them), and the sideways elven human-pretense futurefolk come from long later than us in the far, far not-yet. And such.

Past-reavers under a vampire sun, leeching off the untapped eras of today. The bastards.

Children never appreciate past generations. They use what's (been made) available, never consider what's been given them as anything approaching debt-worthy, et cetera.

All in a day's work... for Frankenstein!

18:43 / 17.05.06

Um, I think I presumed Neh-Buh-Loh to be newly born around the time the Ultramarines went in there - stupid considering how it seemed just as evolved as our reality.

18:56 / 17.05.06

Well, he's also a baby box at that time, too. And time-progression is different in/for Nebbie, so...

19:35 / 17.05.06

Um, I think I presumed Neh-Buh-Loh to be newly born around the time the Ultramarines went in there - stupid considering how it seemed just as evolved as our reality.
but qwewq was shown to be less advanced in universe terms by its conspicuous lack of meta-humans.

incidentally didn't qwewq make its first appearance in wonderworld in the rock of ages jla arc?

19:40 / 17.05.06

Sí.

Hester, are you suggesting that a universe that lacks superhumans is a less advanced one? Because it's sunny today, and the only things flying outside my window are birds.

19:51 / 17.05.06

Qwewq was not shown to be missing metahumans, but flashy supertights posthuman elements.

This absence may not imply it being lesser or less-evolved than the DCU-proper, as it had no costumed superheroes but also no supervillains. It was the intrusion of a supervillain that made the counterbalance necessary.

The babybox universe did indeed come initially from 'Rock of Ages'.

And, for somebody with the relevant issues on hand and a better capacity for maths, if Nebbie is three billion years old, and there's the time difference between external DCUniverse and internal Nebuverse... what's the internal breakdown in years? Are we talking billions of generations of superfolks or are the timeframes not analogous but disparate?

When was the last time anybody even had to ask that about a story? Comics or elsewhere?

And how great is it that this bit wraps up here in 'Frankenstein' with it's 'Paradise Lost' element leaking over to that story's early 'God launches Jesus into world before earth finished, as future-necessary medication' and the Ultramarines insertion into Qwewq? We've seen the similarity to Superman's origin run before (and mentioned by Morrison in at least two interviews), but the connection to 7S didn't hit me until a reread of this mini in one go.

20:19 / 17.05.06

Hester, are you suggesting that a universe that lacks superhumans is a less advanced one? Because it's sunny today, and the only things flying outside my window are birds.

good point. i'm going to put aside the fact that the dc universe (fictional) would appear to be one step removed from our current material reality for now and first talk about the cosmology of GM's jla as it is presented as a fiction.

unfortunately i don't have the issues to hand but i'm sure i remember mention being made in the first issue of jla classified (when the black death was shown in qwewq) that this was a world without superhero activity.

i took this to mean that this universe had no meta-humans due to the fact that it was only in its infancy, touching on notions put forth in the world war three arc of the jla(?) that there were progressive levels of development i.e humans become superheros, superheros become gods (rocks become sentient etc. from the invisibles). In this way the universe would develop metahumans as it matured, as the universe itself was evolving into a higher form.

it seems to be the age old evolution morrison discussion espescially in the 7s series where we see alot of breaking of the fourth wall; fiction addressing reality; the lower form becoming the higher as the higher becomes the higher still.

don't mean to ramble on, i know alot of this has already been covered, just my tuppence.

02:48 / 18.05.06

funny, I was rereading DC 1 MILLION 80-PAGE SPECIAL and the Atom origin [by GM and Cully Hamner] was more or less like this: experimenting with quantum radiation, a scientist has his molecular structure altered, so he can change into any material, his body dividing itself the times necessary to it. so, if he's half his height there's 2 Atoms and so on.

his first experiment created a rapture in time and space, a singularity in the laboratory that started growing past Atom's control. his girlfriend and crew then monitor Atom's incursion [as a golden bar] thrown to the black hole hoping the phenomena cn be reversed.

Atom discovers a larger, more expanded universe past the singularty. and it grows even more, swallowing/collapsing into his former universe. he's spared for being in-between-realities. the old existence is no more, but Atom's sure he'll find traces of his loved one somewhere. meanwhile, he joins the champions of that dimension, Justice Legion.

07:13 / 18.05.06

Past-reavers under a vampire sun, leeching off the untapped eras of today. The bastards.

Children never appreciate past generations. They use what's (been made) available, never consider what's been given them as anything approaching debt-worthy, et cetera.

Ha! Seven Soldiers as the flipside of NXM, where everyone feared their own replacements and Sublime kept trying to drag the bright and shiny children of tomorrow down with all the baggage and conflict of the past.

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