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Whatever 'In Love' Means

 
  

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Smoothly
14:31 / 11.08.05
So, are you in love? Have you ever been? What are the symptoms? What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of a confident diagnosis? How does it relate to other kinds of love? Is there such a thing as love at first sight? Does it fall on you like a great big ‘Yes’?

For me it was a gradual thing. When I first met my significant other (or should I say my ‘all-day breakfast’?), there was a strong and obvious sexual attraction, but nothing palpably deeper than that. At the time I had little expectation of it being anything more than a one-night thing, but she stayed for the weekend and it felt unexpectedly comfortable. Over the next few weeks and months I’d think about her a lot and look forward to seeing her, and the pleasure I got out of spending time with her prompted the L-word to crop up in my thoughts in the sense of loving *things about her*. Loving *her* and talking about loving her was a substantial but fairly fluid progression from those thoughts. I think it felt like a short-hand at first – a kind of generalisation from the specific qualities, but I suspect that this shift in my thinking was quite significant. I found myself loving the person without reference to the particulars.
I’ve always been a bit suspicious of the difference between loving someone and being *in* love with them, but I feel a bit more accepting of it now. There’s something immersive and consuming about my relationship with her and feelings for her. I find myself in a position where someone else’s interests seem indistinguishable from mine; not just that her well-being is as important to me as my own, but that there is a seamless blending of the two.

I’ve heard people talk about their children in similar terms, so I’d be particularly interested to hear from any parents about how those emotions and relationships compare.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
20:14 / 11.08.05
Smoothly, you think too much. It will do you no good.
 
 
Smoothly
20:20 / 11.08.05
I dunno. Seems to be working out okay.

C'mon, Xoc. Tell us about your lurrrve.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:31 / 11.08.05
You're just trying to prove you're not a voyeuristic perv. I don't believe you.
 
 
Smoothly
20:43 / 11.08.05
Nah. I wank over this kinda thing too. I mean, if you're a pervert with broadband, what else is there??
 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:48 / 11.08.05
And you think everyone else is filthy...
 
 
Smoothly
20:49 / 11.08.05
Hmmm, I dunno. I increasingly suspect that you're quite the opposite.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:52 / 11.08.05
I'm not sure whether that's an insult or not but I'll accept that it is and point out that you're so soft you're like butter in the sun. Clearly the reason you're a voyeuristic pervert is because you can't muster up any testicles in everyday life.
 
 
Smoothly
20:54 / 11.08.05
Call my bluff. I'll put my money where your mouth is.
 
 
*
21:04 / 11.08.05
I'm rather disappointed. I was looking forward to being a voyeuristic perv in this thread, and maybe even an exhibitionist one if I got up the nerve. But now it's like the nude beach where everyone comes in shorts and a t-shirt.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
21:09 / 11.08.05
Beware: if you fall in love, you land in pain.

(Not that I'm bitter or anything...honest..)
 
 
Ganesh
21:50 / 11.08.05
This is what I reckon a Barbelith Sex forum would be like...

Attempting to be objective, I think when we talk about our own love experiences, there's a fair amount of retro-mythologising going on: every glance and chance encounter is reevaluated and formed into an increasingly polished How We Met narrative.

Having said all of which, I think yes, I did have it and I still have it. Prior to properly meeting Xoc I'd seen him around the place and noted that he was particularly striking, in terms of appearance. It's hard to put my finger on what, exactly, and I don't think it was the same thing as 'love at first sight'; more a feeling of... being intrigued, wanting to know more. I'd come out relatively late in life for the era of gaydom - in my early 20s - and only shagged four men, not really enough to have a 'type' (unless one counts the fact that they were all older than me). Anyway, I'd asked people who he was, established that he was a gayer, etc., etc.

When it all happened (and it took a lot of not-so-surreptitious manoevreing on my part), I'm not sure that I had particular expectations of the encounter: male bodies were still enough of a fascinating novelty to me that the reveal and exploration were enough. First date was at Xoc's place, and I remember that sense of intrigue being further stoked by his flat, the books and CDs, the pictures on the walls, the way he'd put it all together. I wanted to ask loads of questions, and I did. And we both got very, very drunk.

The thing that clinched it for me, I suppose, is the fact that, even from that first date, I didn't want to go. I wanted to stay, be around, talk, touch, lounge on the floor with him. I didn't feel my time or my space was being invaded; I wanted to be around him. It's difficult to convey just how out of character this was for me: I'd always felt claustrophobic sharing living space with someone for more than 24 hours, 48 tops. None of the previous four had been one-night-stands (one in particular had gone on wayyy longer than it should've) but, mornings after, I'd invariably want to be gone, or want them gone. Xoc was different. I craved his company, I didn't want to be parted.

It was all quite stereotypically lesbian, really: move in straightaway; get mail redirected after a week; rent own flat after a month...

Impossible to generalise from one's own experiences, but that's how I felt - and feel - with Xoc. I continue to be intrigued, to want to talk, to want to know more, to fret if we're apart too long. I can imagine us old and doddering together, and it doesn't bother me.

*shrugs*

There y'go, Smoothly. Emotional Exhibitionists R Us.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
21:58 / 11.08.05
How much money are we talking about?

You might not want my mouth there, I'm quite capable of creating a gaping sex wound where your ********** ******* used to be. And frankly it would be a pleasure to irreversibly hurt someone with a head as swollen as yours.

Is this meant to be an example of a thread for the new forum? It's soft, it's sweet and the only actual answer is from paranoidwriter- if you fall in love, you land in pain. Not very encouraging. Barbeloids don't really seem willing to show their softer sides and if they're not emotionally literate enough to do that or willing to talk about love then the forum would be filled with people, well, saying what pw just said. This thread is currently an example of why it's a bad idea so if any of you think it's a good idea I suggest you all put your money where your mouth is. Hey, maybe Smoothly is brazen enough to pay all of you.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
21:59 / 11.08.05
Shit. The rug has been whipped from under my feet, I think god is punishing me.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
22:14 / 11.08.05
Smoothly,

How much money, exactly, again ...?
 
 
Smoothly
22:17 / 11.08.05
How much money, exactly, again ...?

I think it's about a tablespoonful.

I'm quite capable of creating a gaping sex wound where your ********** ******* used to be.

This is like reading a David Beckham text message and about as energising. I'm sorry, I stopped reading after 'swollen head...', but I'll admit to being intrigued as to why you'd think I'd find this arousing.


This is what I reckon a Barbelith Sex forum would be like, Smoothly...

If you mean Nina's witless stalking then and PW's fortune cookie wisdom, then *I* reckon that this is what a properly moderated forum would protect against. But if you mean your post, then Yay!
 
 
Ganesh
22:25 / 11.08.05
If you mean Nina's witless stalking then and PW's fortune cookie wisdom, then *I* reckon that this is what a properly moderated forum would protect against.

I meant the general lack of 'serious' responses - not because this is all taking place in the Conversation, necessarily (although that might be a part of it), but because many people are uncomfortable talking about this stuff online.

Rereading your first post, I can so-o-ort of see the similarity to people talking about their kids. I suppose my own case would be the 'no, honestly, I couldn't see the point of it either until I got my own' cliche.
 
 
Char Aina
22:31 / 11.08.05
i dont think i'll ever be in love.

again.


it was way too painful the first time, and i still havent properly addressed the shitstorm it left in my head. i do keep trying, but the love was unrequited, it was all my fault that that was the case, and i was only sixteen.
its kinda hard to move on from as i havent yet really figured out what 'it' is.
until i do, it seems i'm far more comfortable being a cad and a bounder.
dont get me wrong, i can be loving.
i just dont give you much of the real me to love back.

yes, i know.
i am working on it.
 
 
Char Aina
22:35 / 11.08.05
'nesh, dude, offtopic and all that... do you ever see yourself as a dad?
like, did falling into the happy make you wonder about the optional extras?
 
 
Smoothly
22:38 / 11.08.05
You might be right, G, but it's still early days. I like to imagine that maybe people are mulling it over a bit before posting, as you sometimes get with Head Shop threads. But I accept that that could be laughably optimistic.

If this was in a Sex & Relationships forum I'd hope that all the responses up to PW's would be deleted without ceremony. I do think that slews of rotten posts, to even the most well-intentioned opening, invariably reset the tone for all future responses.


Toksik, even if you haven't addressed the resulting shitstorm, can you say anything more about how it felt at the time. You knew you were in love; how?
 
 
Ganesh
22:40 / 11.08.05
'nesh, dude, offtopic and all that... do you ever see yourself as a dad?

Not in the slightest.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
22:43 / 11.08.05
Smoothly, I wasn't being facetious or anything, seriously. It's just my take on what you were asking. And don't get me wrong, some pain is worth enduring; but even if you fall in love and live in bliss together till you grow old and wrinkly, one day one of you will die first (unless you go out together in some kind of suicide pact, of course).

p.w's latest piece of fortune cookie wisdom: the best relationships are between people who want to be together, not those that need to be together.

(Sorry, I'll stop now....)
 
 
Ganesh
22:46 / 11.08.05
Get with the personal backstory, PW. That's what stops one sounding teengothfortunecookietastic. Hopefully.
 
 
Char Aina
22:47 / 11.08.05
i dont know if i can.
that may be part of the problem.
maybe more later.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
22:52 / 11.08.05
Ganesh, as you typed ealier, for me it's a bit too much like typing about one's children online. Plus, it wouldn't be fair to my ex-significant others (all of which are still my friends, btw).

That typed, I could rant on about love, honour, respect, etc (in general), for reams and reams and reams and...
 
 
Ganesh
22:56 / 11.08.05
Please don't.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
22:56 / 11.08.05
Oh, and I've never been a goth (for the record), although I've had and still have friends who are. BTW, why should such a comment ("if you fall in love...") be viewed in such a way? (genuine question!)
 
 
Smoothly
22:57 / 11.08.05
Smoothly, I wasn't being facetious or anything, seriously. It's just my take on what you were asking.

Sure, but I wasn't really asking what the consequences of being in love were, good or bad. For the purposes of this thread I was wondering more about what being in love *is*, what it feels like, how you can differentiate it from other feelings, that sort of thing. Reading between the lines suggests that you have been in love, so your view on this is as qualified as anyone else's. Tell us about that.

If you want to protect the innocent, I can appreciate that. But you've mentioned the pain, would the interested parties object if you also talked about the good bit?
 
 
Mourne Kransky
23:01 / 11.08.05
Some say love's a little boy,
And some say it's a bird,
Some say it makes the world go around,
Some say that's absurd...

Does it look like a pair of pyjamas,
Or the ham in a temperance hotel?
Does its odour remind one of llamas,
Or has it a comforting smell?
Is it prickly to touch as a hedge is,
Or soft as eiderdown fluff?
Is it sharp or quite smooth at the edges?
O tell me the truth about love...

Can it pull extraordinary faces?
Is it usually sick on a swing?
Does it spend all its time at the races,
or fiddling with pieces of string...

When it comes, will it come without warning
Just as I'm picking my nose?
Will it knock on my door in the morning,
Or tread in the bus on my toes?
Will it come like a change in the weather?
Will its greeting be courteous or rough?
Will it alter my life altogether?
O tell me the truth about love


I don't know the truth about love but I've been "in love" a few times in my long and adventuresome life and have fianlly got it right with this last boytoy of mine, I reckon (tempting Fate there... )

It does come without warning, usually when it's damnably inconvenient and you're either entrenched in another comfortably routine relationship or perfectly content being a bachelor gay. Its greeting can be courteous but it can also be very rough. I am the type of chap (hobbit, says G) who quite likes to know what happens next, or I can get twitchily anxious. Love is heady, thrilling, anything but certain. Like a form of madness, when it strikes.

Of course it will it alter your life altogether, or what's the point? The Beloved must become the centre of all your plans from then on. When the initial buzz abates, it can get very choppy as you enter the norming phase and batter out the ground rules of a long term commitment between you. Most of my infatuations petered out at this point.

If you get through that, you can slide into the happy cocooning phase where you slowly fuse yourselves into a conjoined organism, to a lesser or greater degree. Can get a bit stale at this point unless you manage the situation, one way or another. I spice up our relationship by working as a paid escort for lonely international businessmen visiting London. And by stalking Sax.

Ganesh tells me he has posted on this thread too, so shall wind this up and go see if we've said similar stuff.

Oops, I got caught up in watching 24 on DVD and forgot I was mid-post for a bit there.
 
 
Ganesh
23:02 / 11.08.05
The pain/death motif, PW. That and the fact that you're apparently pontificating on something of which you've had relatively little personal experience, as far as I'm able to see, from what you've written. I've a feeling Smoothly was angling for a little more show 'n' tell than that, ideally some backing up or debunking of the platitudes in the light of one's individual encounters with lerrrve.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
23:08 / 11.08.05
That and the fact that you're apparently pontificating on something of which you've had relatively little personal experience, as far as I'm able to see.

Ouch! Easy tiger, was there really a need for that? Come on, Ganesh, you have no idea how much personal experience I have. Seriously, that was below the belt. And saying "as far as I can see" doesn't lessen the blow, either.

Smoothly, I see what you mean. I'll have a think and see if I can come up with something. Cool?
 
 
Smoothly
23:09 / 11.08.05
Cool.
 
 
Ganesh
23:15 / 11.08.05
Ouch! Easy tiger, was there really a need for that? Come on, Ganesh, you have no idea how much personal experience I have.

Which is rather my point. You make a vague but rather contentious generalisation about love and pain, then fail to unpack or illustrate it in any way - so we've little idea on what grounds, if any, you're willing to make such sweeping statements. That tends to come across as either wannabe-cryptic or rather adolescent.

I think most of us recognise that this isn't an area in which one can evidence one's statements in any sort of objective sense, but that doesn't mean they should be completely unsupported. If you can't/won't do that, your views are always going to sound glib.
 
 
Triplets
23:34 / 11.08.05
PW: I've known pain! Pain you can never know! The wind howls, the cries of a thousand tattered souls! Blackest woe betide tonight!

Ganesh: Care to provide some anecdotes?

PW: WTF ARE YOU ATTACKING ME? *runs off to write prose with a purple pen*
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
23:35 / 11.08.05
Ganesh, fair enough, I suppose. But as I typed above, I wasn't meaning to be glib, or anything of the sorts (I swear!) And I REALLY object to people belittling others opinions with any form of insult -- not that I know if this was your intention, of course, but it's hard not to read "teengothfortunecookietastic" or words such as "pontificating" as being a touch condescending; know what I mean? And I promise, I'm not spoiling for a fight, I just didn't appreciate your tone and thought I should type something to this effect.

But you're right, a little more information might help others to appreciate the point I'm trying to get across. However, using personal examples about such a topic is a big NO-NO in my book and I'd loathe to discuss anybody else's relationships, so I guess you could say I'm typing with one hand behind my back in this respect (especially seeing as I'm guilty of using anecdotes, etc, in other threads). I suppose I was just trying to be more general about "love", as we all try to be when we're discussing most other topics. Sorry if that didn't come across properly. Sincerely.

Hmmm.......
 
  

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