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beautifultoxin
07:40 / 20.10.05
Bumping back up, after a mention over at the 'Maladaptive' thread...

Last weekend, some of the Bay Area Ultraculture folk attempted a meetup. I got a strange cell message from one brave traveler -- any reportbacks?

Also, curious on the benefits of meeting up for "play" vs. "work" -- ie, I'm more craving tea, liquor, & conversation than Big High Ritual.

Example: the best "occult" store I ever frequented had a long bar where we could all hang "Cheers" style and have our cider & coffee and of course, that all went out of business pretty quickly. But for a year there, I had the pleasure of living in a Pagan household around the corner from that place, with a "day-to-day life" providing lots of opportunities to check-in with others about what-we-call-magic in a normal, casual way...

... and I don't miss it too much. It all bred a certain stagnation/isolation in my practice, that's improved from being more or less on my own. But for those who haven't had the opportunity to do groupwork or have a magically-inclined social circle, I can't knock it completely. It's like a second family at its best... and a second family at its worst, too.

I want Mordant to come back over & talk about Santeria & neighbors, please. There's a funky old Chinese temple supposedly dedicated to "seamen and lost women" just a few blocks from my workplace (a naked workplace), and that would be amazing, to find a way to build up some mutual trust, to go there and be able to make offerings with respect, as a welcome guest.

Finding the magical thread that already is in my city, with my neighbors, rather than calling others to me to initiate a new one... though it's always an interplay when it's working... that's what's juicy to me about city life, and likewise, the conversation illmatic began here...

(more, more, more...!)
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
07:58 / 20.10.05
Meh. Not much to talk about. I'm mooching about some of the local magic supply stores quite a bit, picking up odds and ends as I need them and saying Hi, getting my face known. I've also made offerings to Ellegua and suggested that maybe he could help me find some voluntary work that would benefit his people in the area. I don't know if anything will come of that; I'm not on good enough terms with him to ask right out, I just sort of offered my services. I'm also sussing out which caffs are most popular with other immigrants, and popping in for a cuppa every so often--again, just making nice, getting my face known. I'm wary of being pushy about this, it's a very sensitive business.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:04 / 20.10.05
('Sides, I need to take things slow--I'm sort of pantheoned out at the moment.)
 
 
All Acting Regiment
08:40 / 20.10.05
From my own experience, I think in a general way that if you set about trying to hook up with people based on what they're into in terms of magic- i.e. seeking out the Magick Shoppe as opposed to letting friendships flower organically- you'll only be touching something of their surface persona.

This seems to be especially true of the white western "Chaos Magick" practicioner, where the interest is something they've perhaps more likely cultivated themselves, as opposed to e.g. the Santeria practicioner who I would think to have more of a grounding in their community- correct me if I'm wrong, but the former seems far more likely to have this as a MACD or foil personality that, if anything, will only get in the way of any serious group work.

Probably a good group of people to look at in terms of bouncing ideas off are the well-read: people with a grounding in literature and books. They tend to have a wide interest in ideas without tying them to the mast and shouting about them.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:47 / 20.10.05
Well, some of the shops here also serve as social gathering-points for people from a wide variety of trads. Some of them hold meetings and talks on diverse subjects--the Kabbalah one week, candle-magic the next, Egyptian mysticism the week after. One has a small cafe attached and regular meetings on a Saturday. Whether this would be a good way to "get into" Santeria I don't know, and I sort of don't care--at the moment, just finding people to chew the fat with is the important thing. (Hence also my interest in finding some voluntary work in the broader community.)
 
 
beautifultoxin
09:51 / 20.10.05
Mordant: (Hence also my interest in finding some voluntary work in the broader community.)

That may be a good place to start -- language barrier notwithstanding -- for my temple question. That, and hitting up my friend who's spent three years all over China the next time she comes into town to be a temporary escort again. I followed her cue last time and exited the temple quickly after entering by accident.

Thanks for the inspiration. Cheers to fat chewing.

On being "pantheoned out" -- some of this local work puts me back face-to-face with questions around who are "my" gods, who are the "other peoples"? In the case of the botanica where I buy almost everything for my household altars, they've been there for years working Legba, Yemaya. Likewise, Bay Area witches taking on elements of Day of the Dead for Samhain. What's fair play, good work, and what's cultural misappropriation?

Then again, it's the oldest of old school to bring your gods when you make community with others and their gods. (And maybe new school to do it with grace, care and respect in the spirit of gentle and organic co-creation?)
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
15:30 / 20.10.05
I think I've really got a lot out of the fact that most of my friends who are also into magic are heavily into very different stuff from me. I spend quite a lot of time drinking with people involved in tantra, and I find our conversations about magic are interesting because they will always look at something from a very different angle to the way I would tend to frame it. It doesn't always work, and I don't always see eye-to-eye with their interpretation of stuff, but it makes me think about my practices differently and I think I've probably absorbed a certain amount of tantrik perspective on my practice through osmosis.

For instance, a tantrik friend of mine happened to be at my house one evening when I had an elaborate altar to a certain Lady Goddess of honey and oranges on the go in my living room. She did some stuff at the altar, and what really struck me was the way she interacted with the various things I had on there. Very organic, very interactive. Sprinkling water everywhere, tearing petals from flowers and scattering them at the feet of the statue, and so on - it was like my whole altar space suddenly came alive - a tapestry of activities, textures, sounds, scents, and actions. I realised how terribly influenced by ceremonial magic, with all its liturgical stiffness, my way of interacting with the Gods actually was by comparison. Since then I've tried to take that idea and run with it, so that altars to the Deities I serve become like little activity centres of objects to play with and things to do.
 
 
illmatic
10:44 / 21.10.05
Just bumping this to say, beautifultoxin, your description of the store you mentioned sounds a bit like Treadwells in London. Christina who runs the place puts a tremenous amount of energy into pulling together a great programme of talks, and there's always wine and chat afterward. It's often It's helped by the fact there's a Sam Smiths (cheap ale) pub round the corner. It's a little kind of nexus for various disparte groups of people. Well worth checking out if you're a Londoner (or a vistor).

And this: Also, curious on the benefits of meeting up for "play" vs. "work" -- ie, I'm more craving tea, liquor, & conversation than Big High Ritual.

I've often found that the social side of group working can be more important than some big mad ritual. Much to the dislike of myself in younger days, when I wanted to DO BUG RITUAL* at every opportunity. I didn't notice the grounding and consilidating effect of chatting with like minded folk.

* that's a typo but worth leaving in.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
10:49 / 21.10.05
DO BUG RITUAL sounds like something The Cramps might sing.
 
 
SteppersFan
12:54 / 21.10.05
Great thread. Horrible thread rot though, eurgh, some people just hate a good discussion don’t they?

> I’m very grateful to the people of TOPY London who met me in a pub in North London many
> years ago, most of whom are still friends.

TOPY London? Bunch of tossers, mate. You’re well shot of them. Bastards. Ray says hi by the way.

> I’m interested in anyone’s opinions on the value of face to face meetings and contact.
Vs
> Yes, I know that group work can lead to all kinds of bitter acrimony and falls outs

Ahem. Yes, that’s so often the issue isn’t it? So many of the groups I’ve been involved with have exploded in the end (and no it WASN’T all my fault! . (Phil Hine has some sensible texts on group issues on his site.) Then again the magic you get in a good group is… just fabulous. I think it’s better than solo magic by some margin.

But it’s a hassle and trust me, if you’re doing right, you really need to put the hours in, so loads of your spare time is taken up with group work. (Once a fortnight? You’re a fucking lightweight, Ills!) That’s why personality conflicts get exacerbated – you spend a lot of time together in liminal states of mind. Recipe for disaster really and it’s quite hard to do banishings well enough to clear away all the psychic debris, especially since you’re usually involved in what is to a greater or lesser degree consciousness change.

These days I just don’t have time to do much focused magic, let alone do group work. Being self-employed and married with two kids kills your time. I’d love to drop in on one of Gypsy’s sessions but I’m out of town…

> I wonder if they’re aren’t inherent limits to discussing this sort of stuff online.

Er, yeah! I wonder if magic forums aren’t actually toxic to /doing/ magic. Or at least, doing /something/. Ills says “I think the forum might’ve run it’s course for me, in that I’ve asked a lot of the questions I want to ask of people, road tested some ideas” – well yeah, but forums are also good for knocking about with your peers (or, better, your mates) and staying up to date with gossip and news.

> In the group I'm currently part of, we've very much come to the conclusion that the production of knowledge is very much a shared process, feeding of of other people

This is where the lineage thing comes from. Stuff like Wicca is a mystery tradition – it’s a mystery why anyone writes it down, cos it looks TERRIBLE on the page. But when you engage with the people, do the stuff, it’s no longer quite such a pile of shit. However some Wiccan groups I’ve been in seemed to actively discourage discussing the magic you just did, partly to avoid lust of result – but I just think this screws up the sharing process.

> Christina who runs Treadwell puts a tremendous amount of energy into pulling together a great programme of talks, and there's always wine and chat afterward.

I tell ya, there’ll be a whole scene coming out of that place soon, if there isn’t already. Mind you it’s in London, which sucks the life out of anything. Chatting can stay with you longer than ritual sometimes.
 
  

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