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Calendar reform - it's about time

 
  

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nyarlathotep's shoe horn
15:37 / 26.07.05
there's only one advantage to this 13moon calendar.

you get to celebrate new year's in the summer time (unless you live in the southern hemisphere).

Legba Rex wrote:
I appreciate you've not heard any defense of the Gregorian system other than "change would bring disruption". Well, it would. Immense disruption.

I think "immense disruption" is a hyperbolic presumption. Disruption I'm willing to expect, but I have my doubt about it's relative immenseness. Y2K was gruelling for programmers, and the media, but for the rest of us? Was it all that disruptive?

we've adopted time zones, and daylight savings, and the metric system, and different currencies, and we've managed to survive. I think we've suffered more disruption resulting from political change. As long as we don't try to eliminate 10 days from october.

more from Legba Rex:
Also a little worried by your statement that it would bring more disruption for those "resistant to change"

yeah, I could have been more clear about that. Say a group of Belgians were opposed to the Euro, and despite it being implemented as a common currency, they insist on using Belgian Francs, then they are inviting difficulty into their lives.

not to say they shouldn't, or that it's bad, or wrong or any such nonsense. That it's going to make monetary interactions difficult. Not impossible, or forbidden, just difficult.

I think I'll draw a line of distinction between a culture adopting a system and enforcing it. I'm for the former, FWIW.

tenix
 
 
Quantum
17:54 / 26.07.05
The day is divisble by anything we want. You are trying to measure the division of a section of a ten hour day by your system, suggesting it equates to some mathematically difficult number which is only relevant when you compare it with what a second is currently accepted to be. Olulabelle

So you're saying we *should* reform the calendar down to the second. I'm saying that would be a radical reform. The math is just to show I'm not plucking figures from the ether, that the implications of reform are perhaps more wide ranging than they may first appear. ..some mathematically difficult number which is only relevant when you compare it with what a second is currently accepted to be while reforming the way we tell time you may encounter some comparisons between the old and new system, don't you think?

I think I'll draw a line of distinction between a culture adopting a system and enforcing it. Tenix

Hear hear. I'm more than happy for people to adopt a 13 moon calender or any other system they choose, just don't expect everyone to adopt it. Plenty of people live by other systems and prosper in the Gregorian world, the Coligny system for example. Why not be bicultural and utilise both? We could keep the Gregorian calendar for consensual timekeeping and gradually phase it out by the critical mass method described by Tenix- if it's a good idea then it'll persuade everyone, right? Let it live or die by it's merits.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
19:52 / 26.07.05
I'm more than happy for people to adopt a 13 moon calender or any other system they choose, just don't expect everyone to adopt it. Plenty of people live by other systems and prosper in the Gregorian world, the Coligny system for example. Why not be bicultural and utilise both?

Hear hear indeed.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:04 / 27.07.05
tenix I think "immense disruption" is a hyperbolic presumption. Disruption I'm willing to expect, but I have my doubt about it's relative immenseness. Y2K was gruelling for programmers, and the media, but for the rest of us? Was it all that disruptive?

That's completley different. Y2K was not changing a calender, it was making sure a load of machines would think the year was 2000 and not 1900. Your scheme would be disruption at a scale of Y2K (I don't know whether computers can be reprogrammed to use your calender or whether they'd need partial/full replacement but a switchover would mean everything would have to be checked, no exceptions) multiplied by the kind of chaos you can get with a currency change or similar large upheaval.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
18:11 / 27.07.05
was the recent currency change in Europe really so disruptive?

does it have to be?

It was a massive shift in perception of national identity, and the greater European community (I'm guessing - haven't been there since the Euro was adopted). Altering something as pervasive as money, or calendars is massive change. No question. It doesn't have to be massively chaotic. It could be, but that's not a foregone conclusion.

A sudden massive change causes immense amounts of chaos, usually seen in the recovery. Things like disasters, explosions, violent upheaval, natural or fabricated, force us to deal with the aftermath and rebuild, recover.

If the change is anticipated, if we prepare ourselves, then it need not be nearly so disruptive as the unexpected. no?

We deserve enough credit for having learned that much, at least, over the course of a few centuries of writing down our good ideas. Patience suits us better.

regardless of how you choose to divide the year, 13moons or discordian or julian or whatever, a new means of measuring time will certainly change the way you think about the world of which you're a part.

that's big change. but it doesn't have to be the end of the world.

tenix
 
 
Quantum
18:18 / 27.07.05
So changing to another calendar changes the way you think, cool, and we can all use personal calendars we choose, also cool.
But we need a consensual calendar we all use so we can agree what date it is. Why not keep the one we have?

Even if the disruption was minimal (say, a phased transition over many years like the imperial/metric weights change in UK) many many people would be unhappy about it (look at the response to the Euro, or indeed any big change). What justification for change would you offer someone who was against it? Someone less progressive perhaps, like the Conservative party?
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
00:16 / 28.12.07
Bump...

since I began this thread in 2005, I've been tinkering with calendars (don't ask me why - it's my thing), and come up with what I think is a better alternative to the Gregorian Calendar solely in its role as the global calendar.

Thanks for everyone who posted up until now. Your feedback helped me to shape this a particular way. It gets rather involved, however, I'll try to keep it as short & clear as possible without falling down a rabbit hole.

I'll make notes as to a comparison with the Gregorian, as most of the previous commentary seemed to demand a proper comparison (and rightly so) in order to illustrate the need for a new global calendar.

the blog where i developed theAbysmal Calendar has more detail. I used Public & University Libraries and the Internet for source material.

It has 4 parts to consider, but only the first is the really key component.

Part 1) Chromatic Counter
This simply counts days, lunar months & years linearly, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 and so on. Currently the Julian Date counts the Days, and the Unix Time Stamp counts seconds, however, the lunar month and year are both key components to most world calendars. Having a single numerical reference by which to translate between any two given calendars proves the most important feature of any global calendar.

note: the Gregorian Calendar doesn't follow the Moon (although, Christians do in order to figure out when to celebrate Easter. If a Christian Calendar doesn't even track the cycles necessary for one of Christianity's biggest celebrations, then it is inherently faulty.)

Part 2) Lunar Calendar
This component would simply attribute 12 or 13 lunar months to each calendar year.

note: the Gregorian Calendar has no lunar cycle, which makes it difficult to translate between it, the Islamic lunar calendar, the Hindu, Chinese & Buddhist solilunar calendars, as well as the lunar calendars observed by the first peoples of the world.

Part 3) Annual Calendar
This component divides the year of 365 days (I'll get to the leap year) into 52 weeks and 1 New Year Day. The Weeks begin on Saturday, end on Friday. The New Year Day isn't a weekday, and so falls after Friday and before Saturday.

Arranging the 52 weeks of the year creates 4 equal quarters of 13 weeks each (91 days), as well as 13 months of 4 weeks each (28 days).

note: the Gregorian months vary from 28 to 31 days, and the quarters are unevenly numbered 90/91, 91, 92, 92 days.

As a bonus, each week begins on Saturday and ends on Friday, however, so does each Month, each Quarter, each Year and any larger measures of time.

note: the Gregorian Calendars cycles of weekdays and months would repeat itself every 7 years, however, the leap year day of Feb 29th disrupts this pattern such that it actually repeats itself once every 400 years.

Setting New Year's Day at the Northern Winter Solstice (equivalent to December 21st) aligns the quarters of the year with the cardinal points.

Winter Solstice, Fri Dec 20th, 21st, Dec 22nd
Vernal Equinox, Fri Mar 22nd, Sat Mar 23rd
Summer Sostice, Fri Jun 21st, Sat Jun 22nd
Autumn Equinox, Fri Sep 20th, Sat Sep 21st

This puts theAbysmal Calendar in line with seasons (for those of us outside the Tropics). Also, the Equinoxes are the 2 days of the year, where no matter where you are on the Earth, day=night.

note: the Gregorian Calendar uses Jan 1st as its new year's day, which doesn't have any particular significance other than as itself.

Also, setting Friday December 21st 2012 as the first New Year's Day also means that the Abysmal Calendar and the Gregorian Calendar will have the same days of the week, so that transition from one to the other will be minimally disruptive, giving everyone an entire year to figure it out.
(although, the calendar is complete, so anyone's welcome to start figuring it out now).

Part 4) the Unnamed

The final portion of the calendar comes from Mesoamerica, and forms part of the calendar system used by the Maya. Although its name is lost to us, some have taken to calling it tzolkin. It has two cycles, one of numbers 1 to 13, the other of glyphs or symbols, of which there are 20. I use roman numerals to represent the glyphs.

This calendar measures 260 days, which is equated with human gestation period. It overlaps with the 365 days of the Annual Year in order to create several different progressions of number and symbol, opening up a number of other options for scheduling.

As this particular component is most unfamiliar to people, I'll suggest that you can ignore it completely, and still have a wonderful device otherwise. The Annual cycle follows the seasons, our fertility follows the Lunar cycle, and our gestation follows the Unnamed cycle.

note: This particular feature is unique to Mesoamerica.

The Leap Year

In order to keep the calendar in line with the seasons, a Leap Year Day is inserted the Day before New Year's Day every 4 Years, with an exception every 128 Years. This most closely approximates the difference between the Tropical Year and 365 Days. The Leap Year is not a weekday, and it does not have a number or glyph from the Unnamed Calendar.

note: the Gregorian Calendar includes Feb 29th as a weekday, creating a 400-year cycle, which prevents it from being an easy mnemonic device. One has to consult an external calendar to divine which day of the week a particular day of the month falls on 27 years from now.

The intention is for theAbysmal Calendar to remain purely numeric (with the exception of Weekdays, which most cultures have sorted out for themselves), so that anyone who wishes to use it and impose their own symbolism & imagery, whether religious, secular or personal.

note: the Gregorian Calendar imposes a Roman-Germanic-Christian symbol system, which had spread with the European conquest of Africa, the Americas & Pacific by Catholic Romantic countries and Protestant Germanic countries.

So, that's the story of theAbysmal Calendar. All the parts of it were derived from somewhere else, so my thanks to those who provided all the pieces of the puzzle.

As I stated Part 1 is the most important, as it will allow for easier translation between different calendar systems.

Happy New Years.
 
 
Quantum
00:33 / 28.12.07
Cool. So it's New Year soon by your Abysmal calendar? I've got to admit I went to a winter solstice celebration recently which made me think the paper calendar means very little, why should people switch to the Abysmal calendar you've created? Rather than count the days or invent their own?
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
00:46 / 28.12.07
new year was a week back. woo hoo!

anyone can use any calendar, ultimately. This is meant as a means of translating between 1 Muharram & the 3rd of September, for example, not a replacement of them.

But after immersing myself in the richness of the world's calendars and cultures, it just came together. So, no one is obliged to follow theAbysmal weeks, months, years or whatever. However, if you wish a more elegant means of scheduling one's life, this provides such an alternative.

My ideal would be a vast richness of calendars throughout the world, with theAbysmal calendar as the central means of translating between them.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
00:51 / 28.12.07
oh, and it's purdy:

 
 
astrojax69
03:27 / 01.01.08
that is purdy purdy, squib - wondering why you have a month 0, rather than a month 13?

(did i miss it in the blog? prob'ly...)

fascinating but - so this is a public document? i can immortalise it in a novel, then?
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
06:51 / 01.01.08
0 to 12 instead of 1 to 13
like a digital clock, when you get to midnight, it turns to 00:00. Only after the first hour has finished does it change to 01:00. You don't count month 1 until a full month has elapsed.

sure, you can immortalise it in a novel if you like. I'm already doing so, but don't let me hold you back if it's stimulated your imagination.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
21:37 / 01.01.08
if you're in Australia, I've got a version for the southern hemisphere somewhere.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
21:47 / 01.01.08


theAbysmal+1 for the Southern Hemisphere
 
 
astrojax69
22:45 / 01.01.08
super purdy... ta, squib! (have a sort of future freak character could well simply state all his dates from this calendar and i could weave in some descriptions to give people clues [and of course link your blog in the credits!])

nice ideas - will let them steep in my poor over-pudding'd brain a while, but i get a very strong initial 'wow! of course!' response to this.

(what is your own novel doing? how goes the battle?)
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
00:28 / 02.01.08
my novel started out as characters in need of something to do, so I started reading up on symbolic narratives, and the next thing I know I'm up to my armpits in calendars.

so, the novel's in perpetual development - but I've managed to write a few manuscripts in the meanwhile.

if you want to use the calendar in your novel, then I urge you to rename the months, glyphs and all that in a way that's appropriate for your story world.

ttfn
 
 
archim3des
01:23 / 04.01.08
How about the Roman Calender. Theoretically its now 2800 A.U.C. (Abs Urbs Civitas, Since the Founding of the City)
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
18:27 / 04.01.08
wasn't Rome founded in 753BC? Doesn't that make it 2761?

besides, what's the roman era got to do with anything?
 
  

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