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The Ashes

  
  

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William Sack
10:57 / 06.07.05
England have not won an Ashes series since the mid-80s. Before every series there's always some optimism about our chances, and yet time and again we get creamed. There are certainly some good signs for England - Australia haven't looked invulnerable in the one day triangular series in which they embarrassed themselves against Bangladesh, and England in their victory and tie against Australia have shown some backbone in coming back from positions where previously you would have bet on them folding abjectly.

Are these just the standard glimmers of hope before the reality hits?

My own view: - yep, we're going to get spanked again. The foundation of England's success over the past year has been the performance of their opening batsmen, and McGrath and Lee appear to have got their number. Australia have 3, maybe 4 bowlers who have the capability of taking England apart single-handedly, whereas England only have one, Harmison, who might do that to Australia. However, given the strength in depth of the Australian batting line-up, I just don't see that happening.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
11:07 / 06.07.05
Hmm.

Broadly agree, though I think this is shaping up to be the most interesting Ashes series in years. Australia's abject performance against Bangladesh will fire them up to prove themselves, but has also got to give England a bit of extra hope.

On form, Australia's bowling attack is fearsome, but they were toothless against Banga in that last match. And, I imagine England will, and should be, full of confidence having not only one of the best England line-ups in hears but also alot more mental toughness than we're used to. This England team are alot less likely to panic/fluff it than most.
 
 
Loomis
11:27 / 06.07.05
Hooray! I was going to start this thread myself but hadn't got around to it.

England have certainly improved and will do better this time around for a number of reasons:

Mental toughness. Vaughan's captaincy (building on the work of previous captain Nasser Hussain and also coach Duncan Fletcher) has learnt a lot from the uncompromising Aussie approach and the team have bonded as a unit. Also selectors are following a programme of sticking with the same players through bad patches rather than chopping and changing. They still need to learn not to take the foot off the opposition's throat when victory is near, but recently they have shown that they can chase down every ball and obtain a win because they expect to do so.

Individual ability. The maturation of Flintoff and the arrival of Strauss has added some top level individual spark to the team. Likewise with Harmy in the bowling dept. however I have long been of the opinion that he is a flash in the pan and will be found out against the Australians as he was in the past (Lilac Hill?) and likewise on the SA tour last year. Mind you he has had a great one-day tournament so far so he may yet prove me wrong. Particularly as he is at his best on home soil - if this were an away series I would predict him being smashed out of the attack in quick order.

In terms of the recent ODI series I think England take the psychological advantage because they have proven Australia to be human. However bear in mind that we have not played any cricket for two months prior and are still warming up, not to mention the fact that the team is focused on the Ashes. I expect the Aussies to take the field on 21st July as the cool, calm all-conquering unit we have come to expect.

Big dilemmas for England: 1) does Pietersen play? and 2)the bowling attack.

1) I don't think the selectors will pick KP yet as they would have blooded him in test cricket prior to the Ashes. It is too important a competition to take a risk on a player who may not have the right temperament. He is still young and will probably have a distinguished career for his adopted country but I'm not sure that he is ready, despite the great need England have for the runs he may provide.

2) While Hoggard and Jones are decent bowlers, they can be hit and miss and most importantly the Australians have no fear of them. If Harmison or Freddy do not force a breakthrough then the Aussies could rack up a big score before you know what's happening. Furthermore, no matter what the score, you can't win a test match unless you take 20 wickets and I expect England to struggle to do so.

Phew! These are my initial thoughts on England, off the top of my head. Will write a separate post later about Australia's current form. Hopefully this thread will lure some cricket fans out of the woodwork. No doubt GGM will be along shortly.
 
 
Axolotl
12:54 / 06.07.05
I am really looking forward to the Ashes, though as an Englishman in Glasgow it is likely to be a fairly lonely experience. I am hoping for a tight series though I have to favour the Aussies to win, but for the first time in years I think it's going to be a real contest.
 
 
William Sack
13:36 / 06.07.05
I agree that this series should be more of a contest than others of recent years, but then again that's not saying much.

On the Pieterson selection: I have never actually seen him play, what with not having Sky, but from what I have heard and read he seems the sort of player that might not need a test blooding. He has 3 pairs of bollocks and massive self-belief to go with his natural talent, and to average 54 in first class cricket, as he does, his technique and temperament can't be all that bad. My only concern about selecting him is that it would probably be at the expense of Thorpe who is a gritty little cricketer with the best track record against the Australians.
 
 
Loomis
13:38 / 06.07.05
Ok, onto the Australian team. I expect the Aussies to retain the Ashes convincingly. Despite a few wobbles in the recent ODI series, we remain the superior test team by a significant margin. I certainly expect this to be the closest series in many years and am looking forward to a great contest, but I predict that England will win no more than one match out of the five.

I expect the Aussie bowlers to be back on song by the time the test matches start. McGrath the metronome is already reurning to form and with a bit of luck Gillespie and Kasprovic will be there soon. Lee is the interesting situation. Up until recently I have steadfastly maintained that he is too unreliable and too expensive to be included in the test team, despite success in the pyjama game. However his recent performances in which he has demonstrated control and maturity and most importantly an ability to swing the ball beautifully has convinced me that he is ready for another test callup. McGrath and Lee in tandem will casue a lot of trouble for the English openers.

Warne is no longer the secret weapon he once was but he remains the world's best legspinner, and will be particularly valuable if England play Pietersen as I am not convinced by his performances against good spin.

I don't foresee any trouble in the batting dept. Especially if Ponting and Gilchrist get back into form then some big scores could be in the offing. If not then the others will have to graft as they have in the ODIs. Particularly interesting will be the performance of Michael Clarke as a lot of people have been wondering when he will fulfil the potential he indicated with his entry into the test side. Future great or flash in the pan?

I think the next Ashes series in Australia will be the really interesting one. England's team will be fully gelled by then and Australia may be facing issues of great performers retiring and leaving gaps. As it stands, despite their massive improvements, England are not yet ready to seriously trouble the Australians.
 
 
William Sack
13:46 / 06.07.05
McGrath and Lee in tandem will casue a lot of trouble for the English openers.

I foresee 'Trescothick ct Gilchrist b McGrath' as being the new 'Gooch lbw Alderman.'
 
 
Loomis
13:49 / 06.07.05
My only concern about selecting him is that it would probably be at the expense of Thorpe who is a gritty little cricketer with the best track record against the Australians.

Well this is the issue. You have four players (Thorpe, Pietersen, Bell and Key. Five if you count Butcher) and only two positions. At the moment I reckon Bell and Thorpe are in, but anything could change. I think you have to include Thorpe for his experience in general and specifically his experience against Australia. And Bell looks set to be a long-term member of the squad and deserves his place. So where would KP fit? After the Ashes there will be no problem - Thorpe will retire and Bell and KP will be in the side, leaving Key and Butcher as replacements as needed.

I don't think the selectors will start the series with KP but if Thorpey has a couple of bad games then maybe they'll bring him in. That could be a case of too little too late though, so it's a real pickle for the selectors. Still, a good problem to have I guess.
 
 
William Sack
14:05 / 06.07.05
I think you're right Loomis; KP will probably come in mid-series. Then again, fiddling around with the batting not the real issue. The bowling is where there is a gulf between the teams.

On a personal note, Mrs J has just told me of my birthday present - tickets to next Tuesday's match at the Oval.
 
 
Loomis
14:19 / 06.07.05
Lucky you! What an understanding partner you have.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
21:21 / 06.07.05
CJ: colour me jealous.

The bowling is where there is a gulf between the teams.

Yup. However, if on form, I think the England top order are probably the best-placed set in the world at the moment to be able to withstand that attack. But that isn't really saying much.

And awful lot will depend on Flintoff and Strauss, who if they play at their best, are frightening enough even to trouble the Aussie bowlers. Flintoff is I think, the batting key, as alot of responsibility for piling up runs will fall to him. If he can make some big scores, that will go a long way to evening up the sizeable gap bewteen the two teams' bowling.

(and Loomis - huh? Read upthread, I beat you to it. Bloody Aussies. On allegiance, I'm oddly undecided as I have my English nurture on the one hand, but my Indian 'anyone against England' nature on t'other!)
 
 
nedrichards is confused
22:28 / 06.07.05
I think there's a lot of underestimating of Matthew Hoggard and swing bowling in general going on in this thread. In fact I'd go so far as to say that one of the reasons Lee looks so good at the moment is becuase he's consistantly swinging the ball and doing it at serious pace. Englands recent cricking dominance has been built on the power of their bowling attack and particularly on Flintoff being the best bowling all rounder in world cricket.

In other words, i'm still worried but I'm more worried about the batting ;-)
 
 
Loomis
07:37 / 07.07.05
Loomis - huh? Read upthread, I beat you to it.

Sorry - when I started writing that post you hadn't yet replied to the thread. It just took me too long to finish and by the time I did you'd snuck in before me.
 
 
William Sack
11:31 / 13.07.05
I haven't been to a cricket game for ages, and going to the Oval yesterday was just fantastic.

So, Gilchrist and Ponting have hit some form at last, and Gillespie seems to have cheered up a bit. Just what we didn't want. And now that the one day stuff has finished Shane Warne will be joining the side. Sorry to be the vicar of doom, but when Australia play to potential England just can't live with them. The only plus point is that the Aussies' test opening batsmen don't seem to be full of runs at the moment.

Having seen Pietersen play I am even more keen on him getting a test place. His technique is a little odd - he seems to play the ball a fair bit in front of his pads and is not the most graceful of batsmen - but Christ his timing, power, and eye for a ball are amazing. One of his 6s yesterday was one of the most incredible shots I have seen. He charged down the wicket to Gillespie, who banged it in half way down, and Pietersen then swatted it cross-batted over long-on. I just can't work out how he managed to do it. Chairman of selectors David Graveney was giving nothing away on the Thorpe/Pietersen issue on the Today programme this morning, but seems to be suggesting that both men's injuries are not serious.

Nedrichards - Allan Border, like you, likes the England bowling attack but is unsure about their batting. I'll stick with my worries being primarily about the bowling, more so after seeing Harmison I'm sure getting targeted for some stick yesterday.
 
 
Loomis
12:40 / 13.07.05
It's important to remember that Australia hadn't played any cricket for two months prior to this tour and so it was understandable that they would take some time to warm up, and it seems that they have done so at the perfect time.

Gillespise is finally getting his act together but it may be too late. On current form I would pick McGrath, Lee and Kasprowicz. However with one tour match to play against a county side, I wonder if they will rest McGrath and play Dizzy and Kasper off against each other to see who will get the third place.

The other selection issue for the Aussies is Michael Clarke. He's had two very average tours (in NZ and here) so I would be in favour of dropping him in favour of Mike Hussey who has done a great job so far. Clarke is very young and will be back in the team soon enough.

As for England, I still think Thorpe needs to play but KP showed yesterday that he can play a sensible innings when required. I don't rate Giles very highly and I reckon they should leave him out for the first test and play Bell, KP and Thorpe in the middle order, giving them a chance to play them off against each other for selection in the remaining tests when Giles will be required on more spin-friendly pitches. Vaughan should bowl himself more often and there are other part-timers in the team so the king of spain won't be too sorely missed.

I always expected Harmison to be found out against the Australians but he has surprised me so far in the ODIs so I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in the tests. I'm not too worried about your openers to be honest. Tests are a different game and I think they will settle down a bit then.

The ODIs have been a good introduction to the series but there were way too many of them and as it is a different style of cricket it has started to affect the way we rate players (not to mention distracting us with shite like the supersubs - what an idiotic idea) so it's important to stay focused on the strengths that are required for the longer game. I'm looking forward to Australia's tour match and I think they would have done well to include another one a week ago.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
13:12 / 13.07.05
Wise words. Don't forget that despite Englands rise to 2nd in the test rankings (which I feel is fair) we remain fairly unremittingly crap at one dayers and the past couple of days have shown why. Can chase; can't set and contain. At least we seem to be getting some lower order steel these days, getting to 220 was a very decent performance, especially from Solanki but it's clearly just not enough runs.

It's also worth remembering that KP plays pretty much completely differently in first class cricket (and I'd assume tests), much less leg sided, you don't get an average of about 52 or so for nothing. I'd be tempted to drop Giles and play him but I've seen how important he's been as a break in Englands test plans. Even if he doesn't take that many wickets on unhelpful pitches (and not many spinners do) he's very, very accurate and creates an awful lot of pressure at one end for one of the fast bowlers to get physical at the other.
 
 
astrojax69
22:17 / 13.07.05
loomis, i don't agree with you on clarke - i think he'll rise to the ashes challenge, and can bowl pretty handily and is a whizz in the field - isn't he something! but i will be keen to see him in their last hit-out. like your theory on dizzy and the ghost, giving them a run against one another but i think the australian selectors will be hard pressed to mess with their paper line-up, which will see the mullet get the nod ahead of the ghost - unlucky! tait impresses me too and i rekkun he'll step up if needs be; so we have a plethora of options.

can england leave out pietersen? thorpe is a top batsman, but isn't pietersen's form too good to ignore? i think he has the aussies worried, something thorpe never would.

but how good is ooh-ahh glenn macgrath! five overs five maidens one for none; or so it should have been if dizzy had his eyes on the game! te aussie telecast had the map of the pitch where he was landing them and the first four overs were all pitched within a foot radius of each other, bang on line at a perfect length. 24 balls in a row. amazing! imagine if he could bat...!
 
 
nedrichards is confused
22:46 / 13.07.05
astrojax: before every series prior to this while he's been alive (almost) Thorpe has been the only England batsman ID'd by the Aussies as a threat. Becuase he is. The mighty power of the nurdle shall triumph! Really though, at 90-4 I don't know any batsman in world cricket I'd rather have in and that's what England need, becuase your opening bowlers are going to do that at least once or twice in the series and we need to hold out and at least get draws those times! It's just noticeable that Thorpe was the only England batsman to average 40+ over the course of his test career until our recent resurgance, he's a gritty little bugger.
 
 
Loomis
08:31 / 14.07.05
There's been a lot of talk about Thorpe playing a couple of matches then retiring mid-series to make way for KP. I dunno about that. It feels a bit wrong to retire mid-series. When Nass did it, it really felt like he just wanted to leave on a high after a good performance rather than toughing it out to the end of the series.

As for Tait, I can't imagine any way he'll play unless something drastic happens to the others. He's just along for the ride and to get used to the test atmosphere.

So who reckons Vaughan will rise to the challenge? He's had such a run of poor form it's not funny. I reckon he'll be extremely lucky to play in the next ODI series, and if he doesn't pull his socks up in these test matchs then he may well find himself making way for KP. He's done a great job as test captain (he had some shockers as ODI captain recently - subbing one of your strike bowlers? what an idiot!), but that can only maintain your place for so long. If he doesn't pull something out of his arse against Australia then I wouldn't be surprised to see him out of the team.
 
 
William Sack
09:34 / 14.07.05
Pieterson it is. Back later.
 
 
Loomis
09:43 / 14.07.05
Wow! I didn't think they'd do it. Exciting stuff. Thorpe isn't even twelfth man. Verrrry interesting.

There's no doubt that having KP in makes for more excitement and anticipation though. Good stuff, roll on next week!
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
10:24 / 14.07.05
That is very interesting. Wondering if there's a question mark over Thorpe's fitness or whether it's a definite decision to go with KP. I really hope he's up to the big opportunity. Obviously, from what we've seen, it looks likely, but the Ashes, with a pumped-up Aussie team, is something rather different.
 
 
Loomis
10:28 / 14.07.05
Well yesterday Thorpe was saying how he'd had work done on his back and it was feeling great. Today we read that "Pietersen has been included ahead of Graham Thorpe, who has been struggling with a back injury." That's just window dressing in my opinion. They want a matchwinner like Gilchrist and I reckon they've just decided to takea gamble, which is what it is, no doubt about that.
 
 
William Sack
11:48 / 14.07.05
Tough gritty old campaigner vs. young explosive potential matchwinner. I'm glad that they have gone for KP. It's a gamble, and one which may backfire, but I'm glad the selectors have taken it.

I think Vaughan will find his form. He's a class player and hit 3 centuries in the last Ashes campaign. He'll come good. At least I hope he does.

This fellow Tait, wasn't he the top wicket taker in domestic cricket last season? Don't know anything about him; is he quick?
 
 
Loomis
12:23 / 14.07.05
Yeah Tait took 65 wickets in 10 matches this season. He's very quick, in fact I've heard that he might even have been quicker than Lee on occasion. However, hand in hand with speed comes an occasional lack of accuracy, as we see in Lee as well.

At 22 Tait is extremely young, especially by Australian standards, where many players don't even make it into the national team till 28-30. Like Lee, he will need to learn control and then he will be a potent force. The fact that he was brought on this tour shows that Cricket Australia have tipped him for big things in the future.
 
 
Loomis
13:47 / 14.07.05
Australia's team for the tour match against Leicestershire has been announced. McGrath is being rested to give Kasper and Dizzy a chance to fight it out. Interestingly Warne is also putting his feet up and they're playing MacGill instead. Obviously MacGill won't be playing any test matches unless we play both spinners, so maybe they just thought he needed to keep his hand in or maybe Warne is too busy texting on his mobile.
 
 
astrojax69
22:25 / 16.07.05
so gillespie can bat; so can all the other aussies! three centuries (although clarke missed out... hmmm)

will they go for the win and declare when dizzy nothces up his half ton and let him and the ghost clean up, or not, for the final spot?
 
 
Loomis
10:48 / 21.07.05
Oh my god is anyone watching this? WHat an exciting opening session to the series. Runs, wickets, injuries. It's all happening.

The weather forecast suggested batting first in the sunshine but it turns out that it's still quite cloudy at Lord's and so the bowlers are exploiting the moisture inthe pitch. Perhaps Punter should have opted to bowl first. I guess he thought the cloud would blow away sooner.

Most of the Aussie batsmen weren't looking too comfortable and were making some poor shots. They seemed beaten by the pace quite often and were decided to play at the ball too late, thus the numerous hits they took.

This is exactly what we all hoped the series would be like. Great stuff.
 
 
William Sack
10:49 / 21.07.05
What a fantastic morning. 5 wickets tumbling, jittery looking batsmen getting smacked by hostile short stuff, and best of all - it's Australia on the receiving end. I haven't seen all of it, but my first impression is that this is part good English bowling, and part bad Australian batting. The main thing is that England are definitely up for this and don't seem to be intimidated, and Australia are not dictating terms.

All out for 170 by tea. England 120-0 by stumps would be nice.
 
 
William Sack
11:00 / 21.07.05
Perhaps Punter should have opted to bowl first.

I think he was almost certain to bat if he won the toss. Post a big score and have Warne bowling last on a wearing wicket. Still possible of course. Australia have been superb at squeezing every possible run out of the bottom half of the batting order, certainly during Steve Waugh's time.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
11:07 / 21.07.05
CJ: yep. England look totally ready, and have charging out at the Aussies in a much more aggressive fashion than I expected. Astonishing stuff.

(vaguely ontopic: Isn't cricket the best excuse for lying still for hours EVAH?)
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
11:11 / 21.07.05
97-5 off 23 overs. Wow.

The Aussies really need Gilchrist to show what he's made of. A couple of soft dismissals leaving G with alot of ground to make up.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
11:35 / 21.07.05
Fucking hell. Gilchrist out at 126.

Much as it pains me to agree with Boycott, he didn't need to scoop that.
 
 
Loomis
12:17 / 21.07.05
Yeah the Aussies are playing some bad shots. It's like they still think they're playing a ODI and have forgotten that they have 5 days to get their runs. You're right about the Aussies lower order batsmen though. They're all capable of getting us to a half decent total, especially with Katich in as well. He's the only player today who looks like a test batsman. I wish he had been able to bat with Hussey rather than Clarke - they might have put on a good partnership together.

But for now it's still great stuff, even though it's my team on the receiving end. Weather looks like it's warming up as well. Could be perfect for batting just in time for ENgland. Pigeon and Bing will have to be right on the money this afternoon.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:31 / 21.07.05
After that Pietersen miss, was wondering if things were going off the boil for England/Aussies might settle but no...

Lee's a good wicket to get.
 
  

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