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The L-Word Season Two - Living TV, UK (Spoilers)

 
  

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Cat Chant
17:39 / 17.06.05
There is already a thread here with some discussion of Season One and the opening of Season Two, but I thought I'd start a new thread so that I can talk to people about the show as it airs in the UK - can we keep this thread spoiler-free for anything after what has shown on Living TV so far, please? We could use the other thread for spoilers, or [severely] just wait.

[clears throat] Okay, I'll begin. As is clear from the other thread, I wasn't that impressed with Season One to begin with, but by the end I was completely loving it and had to buy a bootleg DVD from Hong Kong on ebay so I could watch it MORE. In the other thread, Mister Disco wrote this:

this is the first time I've seen a confused 'straight' girl in a lesbian romance coming out smelling of greed, manipulation and deceit rather than sweet, innocent, blameless confusion

which I can only echo. The development of the whole Jenny plot in S1 was a fantastic play on viewerly expectation: because of the conventions MrD alludes to, I sort of started out thinking I was meant to like Jenny, and thus being very squicked by her red-nosed weeping and fuckwittery. Imagine my delight when I realized that (a) she was being presented as manipulative, deceitful and annoying, and (b) the series was not editorializing on her behaviour. The lack of a Sarah-Jessica-Parker commentary is a major - and much-appreciated - difference from Sex in the City, but further, this is a show where you genuinely don't feel the presence of a writerly superego guiding you firmly through the rights and wrongs of the character's behaviours. It's really exciting (and quite rare in American TV, or at least the American TV I've seen).

And now a similar thing seems to be happening with the girl Jenny's dating. She was introduced at the end of S1 and I sort of thought she was too good to be true (though also hott. A lot of the minor or second-string characters seem to be allowed to be attractive within a wider range of "attractive" than the leads - there are some beautiful strong-featured and/or older women showing up in smaller roles). But now! It turns out that she is in fact eevil - showing up at Jenny's work, during her first shift, to break the news that Jenny's ex has tried to kill herself, then hanging around to tend Jenny in a psychotic Munchlesbian-by-proxy way.

And this keeps happening. I keep being delighted by instances where the show follows lines of thought that I share but don't really expect to see on the telly, because they go against the usual dramatic/ideological conventions - so I get the double pleasure of having my expectations confounded and my world-view confirmed all at the same time. This doesn't always happen - f'rex, I was a bit grumpy about the lesbian boy in S1 whose desire to fuck Alice with a dildo, rather than with his penis, was overruled and not taken seriously. That worried me, because I thought he might have all sorts of reasons for not wanting to fuck people with his penis, and those should be respected... but anyway, apart from that and a couple of other instances, The L Word pretty consistently seems to share my assumptions about the world and how it works. And that seems to me to be the most important thing about the politics of representation: not what ("I feel totally excluded by The L-Word because I'm a disabled bi-dyke in an intergenerational relationship and I don't see myself reflected in it!") but how ("I feel recognized by The L-Word because it understands gender and age in the same way that I do!")

Diva (lesbian UK magazine) is very ambivalent about The L-Word, and its readers consistently give it the thumbs-down in polls, surveys, etc. Don't know if this is representative of the lesbian media, but I'd be interested to know what other people have seen... and any theories on why this is so. I have a theory, which is an extremely ungenerous one: the criticisms I've seen of the L-Word are often focussed around the idea that straight men might get pleasure out of it ("it's not real lesbians, it's just male fantasies..."). I'm a slash writer, so it would be vastly pot-calling-the-kettle-black for me to get upset about straight men getting off on (representations of) f/f sex... but anyway, it seems to me that the term "lesbian" is sometimes mobilized in a very non-queer way (in Eve Kofosky Sedgwick's sense of the word queer, ie sites where gender, sexual orientation, fantasy, preferred sex acts, familial affiliation, etc, etc, don't all line up together). I've come across a few instances lately where people have wanted "lesbian" to mean something very clear and very well-aligned: you are a woman, you want to have sex with women, there can be no complications or kinks, the "lesbian" guarantees identity and desire. So I wonder whether something like that is going on with some resistances to The L-Word (though obviously not all resistances, and not even all resistances that criticize it in the name of "the lesbian").

Okay, back to the L-Word And Things Deva Loves About It. Two more things:

(1) the Ivan/Kit romance. The scene at the end of S1 where Ivan lip-synched to I'm Your Man is one of the two most erotic things I have ever seen on TV (the other is the couch scene in 'Pressure Point' [episode of B7]). (This is partly because I have an overidentification with Uncle Len going back to the age of 11, when I was pissed off that my voice wasn't going to break and I was never going to be able to sing like that for real, and also have always harboured vague fantasies of doing a drag show, but oddly never put the two together and could never decide what song I would lip-synch if I ever were to bring my inner boy out onto the stage... so this scene granted a lot of never-quite-made wishes for me). And I'm on tenterhooks to see where it'll go - will it be like Lisa, the lesbian man, and piss me off, or will it go in an interesting direction?

(2) The butches. I should explain (a) that I have a slightly idiosyncratic definition of butch/femme - butches are Yang personality types, femmes are Yin - and (b) that I was late to realize my own butchness, so coming-to-butchness is one of my favourite character arcs. That's actually why I ended up having some sympathy for Jenny: she's a butch (no, really. The biggest clue is the way she interacts with her best friend in S1: when she's away from potential sexual partners, she becomes much more relaxed and assertive) who has learned to get what she wants through pathologically femme behaviour (manipulation, emotional blackmail). But as she comes into her butchness, she will learn other, more butch ways, of getting what she wants, which will hopefully be less pathological. Though of course not necessarily! Because look at Bette! Her tragedy is that she has pathologically butch coping mechanisms, as revealed in this week's episode (though I recognized it last season too): "I thought I had to absorb your pain and ignore my own". Ah, the classic (stone) butch- taking responsibility for everything in her eternal quest to make everything nice for the femme, and ending up fucking everything up by exploding bottled-up emotions all over the place!

Actually, this reminds me of something Ganesh and Flowers have both said before: that one of the key things about representation of othered sexualities is just to have more gay/bisexual characters - and, crucially, more than one. You can kind of tell how necessary that is from the pathetic overexcitement with which I greet a TV show with more than one way of being butch.

Trivia question: Does anyone know if this is the first soap to have the word "fuck" in its theme song?
 
 
tangent
14:16 / 19.06.05
Diva (lesbian UK magazine) is very ambivalent about The L-Word, and its readers consistently give it the thumbs-down in polls, surveys, etc. Don't know if this is representative of the lesbian media, but I'd be interested to know what other people have seen... and any theories on why this is so.

Well, I haven't seen any lesbian media that you haven't seen, darling, but my theory would go: while things have changed somewhat, lesbians have been so drastically underrepresented in cultural productions, even compared to gay men, that many of us still want every example to be astoundingly representative, because we still continue to believe that we won't see another lesbian in mainstream culture for another decade. And in general, when things improve, the crusaders for change often go on grumbling for a bit, unprepared to accept that they may have actually won that round ...
 
 
Disco is My Class War
06:02 / 22.06.05
Deva, that post just ruled. RULED, I tells ya. You're so right about the butchness.
 
 
diz
06:32 / 22.06.05
As is clear from the other thread, I wasn't that impressed with Season One to begin with, but by the end I was completely loving it and had to buy a bootleg DVD from Hong Kong on ebay so I could watch it MORE.

hmm. we watched the first few episodes here in the US, and we were really disappointed, so we stopped watching. now i keep hearing everyone raving about it. should we give the series another try?
 
 
Ganesh
07:34 / 22.06.05
Actually, this reminds me of something Ganesh and Flowers have both said before: that one of the key things about representation of othered sexualities is just to have more gay/bisexual characters - and, crucially, more than one.

I was actually talking about Big Brother when I said this (although I may have voiced something similar when Queer As Folk originally aired), specifically with regard to last year's run, with Dan, Marco, Kitten, Spamboy (ahem) and a clutch of assorted BB maybisexuals. It was notable that, in contrast to previous years, having an increased non-hetero presence in the house not only allowed the housemates concerned to 'escape' the pressures of representation, but appeared to keep a queer discourse (of sorts) going. This tallied with my own experience of how I, as a gay man, act when I'm in a roomful of heterosexuals, and how I act when there are other self-identified gay/bisexual people in that room. It's not just my behaviour that changes but my perception too: I think there's more of a queer frisson, and I then view others as more fluid in their sexuality. It's as if the presence of a critical mass of 'out' homosexuality creates an alternate 'pole' within the room, allowing a continuum rather than a default hetero option.

Bleh. Where was I going with this, again?

Oh yeah. The situation with fictional characters is similar, I think, in that a single gay/bi character has to deal with the pressures Tangent's described (hi Tangent!): frankly impossible expectations, on the part of the viewing public, that that individual will embody the entirety of Queer. Even the most skilled character writer or dramatist in the world would have difficulty freeing their token queer from the sticky web of representation. As Tangent says, there's a historical dimension to this: there have been many more gay male characters than lesbian ones (QaF being something of a watershed), so the gay male audience is perhaps slightly less hungry to be represented than the lesbian audience. Having a number - a glut! - of queer characters spreads this pressure amongst an ensemble, and protects individuals from being too crushed into cipher or stereotype. The viewing publics demands are diffused.

I was originally put off The L Word, in the first series, by the glossiness (I have a problem with many US productions as a result) and the fact that it appeared to be explicitly marketed at a straight male audience. I don't think I gave it a chance, and am intrigued about how it's developed, particularly as the second series has been advertised in a much more low-key way. I see the initial run is now available on DVD; is it worth getting?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:10 / 22.06.05
"Ling Ling, say a word! Say a word!"

*cringe*

I'm a very rapid convert to this show. I was very relieved once I realised that Jenny was supposed to be as annoying as she is - as well as the breaks from the norm Deva mentions, as a regular viewer of 'quality' American TV drama of varying quality, it pleases me to see a) a kooky child-woman who is presented as irritating as opposed to saintly and sweet, b) a rubbish autobiographical writer who is presented as rubbish (I sincerely hope she does not win over her writing teacher). Bit worried about Shane moving in with her, though.

I could write about Shane, and how I like to think that if we met, we could be friends, nay, drinking buddies, but who wants to read something that predictable?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:55 / 22.06.05
I've now seen the second episode of season two, that makes two full episodes of the show and I think I'm deeply involved with it already. I've latched on so deeply because it's so rare to see a show full of women who are involved with other women in a vaguely* normal way and it's rather nice to actually be able to connect the other part of myself with something screened. I generally find lesbian potential relationships on mainstream TV deeply unsatisfying to watch because they're always angsty. You never have lovely Shane who is, so far both kind and sluttish, though I too am deeply worried by Jenny moving in. As I murmured during the show 'oh no, what if she's in all of the Shane scenes.' That would be incredibly annoying. No usually you just get angst and pain and occasional coming out stories. I compare this to Sugar Rush and my heart almost bursts with joy at the simply everydayness of the show (even if they are all polished it's favourable to a 10 part Burchill obsessive angst-fest). And look, here is the trailer for next week screening on Living and it looks very fun. Oh, the fun is too much for me. Good drama and complex relationships with each other and own identities, I may expire from joy.

*by vaguely I really mean dramatic but then drama is part of everyone's lives nay?
 
 
Disco is My Class War
08:09 / 04.07.05
I started a little pseudo-lith L Word thread on my blog for refugees this past week, on which I wrote the following:

. The demise of the Kit/Ivan relationship was very disappointing. After watching the first episode, and that cliff-hanger, I thought they'd dealt with Kit seeing Ivan naked in a sensitive way, ie demonstrating how vulnerable and scary that might be for Ivan. Plus, this seemed like an opportunity for the writers to explore Ivan's negotiation of his body, and Kit's drag king education, further: what would it take for Kit to make things right? Instead, she just wants his money, really, and Ivan never makes clear what might have made it possible for the relationship to continue. Exit Ivan. For mysterious reasons.

2. Joyce Wischnea. What a stunning performance. Did someone mention 'pathological butch'? Run, Tina, run. Don't take the offer of the swish guesthouse. Sooner or later you know what's going to happen. She's going to call you "little lady"! It's just going to slip out of her chivalrous, manly mouth. By which time you'll be so mired in butchbait pretend-helplessness that you won't even notice, and you'll be flattered.

3. Shane/Carmen. Nice 'no touching' game, huh. We decided that the best bit of acting Katherine Moennig has done in this show is that post-sex moment where she won't say anything in reply to Carmen's questions about family, favourite colour, etc. But, hello, the Code is starting to wear thin. Very thin. Watching the girl you have a crush on kiss your housemate is not the way it's supposed to work. But hey, Shane's cool with all that. I don't believe it for a second.

***
And since writing that I've actually seen the whole season, and will therefore have to be extra careful with spoilers. Because there are some things you just don't want spoilt, really. And the whole season just keeps getting better and more intense.
 
 
Cat Chant
11:02 / 04.07.05
Yayy! (Sorry, only just seen this week's episode - and the growth of this thread - as I was away over the w/e.) Do you see how Jenny is the new Shane? It is like Nathan becoming the new Stuart in QaF! There's a new playa in town!! I have disconcertingly huge identification with Jenny's arc as she comes into her butch powers and moves from pathological "stuck butch" to splendid show-offy boy. Or so I hope.

(A "stuck butch" is a - usually female, but sometimes male - butch who has been squished and barred from exploring butchness and/or masculinity, for whatever reason, and as a result often styles herself as a pathological femme "little-girl" type. It's sort of like that Joan Riviere article on "Femininity and the Masquerade", if anyone's read that - it's from the 50s or something, and talks about how women who succeed in male contexts flip between being super-masculine and competent, and super-girly and conciliatory to prove to the powerful men in their field that they're not trying to castrate them.)

Will post more coherently later on. I hope. I have more things to say about identification/representation, as well as more squeeing...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:14 / 04.07.05
But hey, Shane's cool with all that. I don't believe it for a second.

Hahahahaha. Am I the only person who looks at Carmen and sees Lana Lang? The no touching scene really annoyed me because up until then it had only been a physical resemblance but it was just such a Lana Lang thing and because of that all the kink drained away and I was overcome by a sudden annoyance. I found myself wondering why the same physical types always seem to be lumbered with the same kind of plot points? I know that it works very well as a shorthand in a show like this but... well, I really dislike Lana Lang intensely. Smallville actually managed to ruin a scene in the L-Word for me. Thankfully the whole thing was saved by a hat. Fickle, sure but Lana would never wear a hat that good.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
21:50 / 06.07.05
Who's Lana Lang? Never watched Smallville.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:20 / 06.07.05
Eh, bland love interest character. I think Nina is being harsh on Carmen and may well recant a little in future... Anyway, let's forget that and concentrate on how fanTASTic tonight's episode (2.4, 'Lynch Pin') was. It even made me sort of like or at least feel empathy with Jenny! Lisa Cholodenko fucking brings it again. I think this show is rapidly becoming as dear to me as Six Feet Under (despite, rather than because, The Theory Of Everything = The Plan and Shane's potential new boss possibly = Lisa's awful Hollywood boss).

Random thoughts, instead of intelligent thoughts: I like how Mark is basically this sort of smart, arty, supposedly liberal guy who is nevertheless going to turn out to be a completely asshole. Fucking Vice magazine, 'Dude, Yr So Crazy' culture in one boy and his gormless friend.

Jennifer Beals' shoulders make her look like she could bench-press a jeep: I mean this in the best way, nevertheless that was one of the most effectively depressing one-night stands I've seen on screen. It's Bette's weariness, that awful drunken weariness, that got to me.

Disco is so right about Joyce bloody Wischnea. Run, Tina, Run!
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:31 / 06.07.05
But she gives us all the opportunity to growl Wischnnneeeeaaaa at the screen everytime she comes on. That last scene killed me, possibly because I want a haircut whenever I watch the show.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:48 / 14.07.05
Could someone who watched Season 1 tell me: is Tanya's accusation that Alice is bisexual based on anything that happened then? I know I could probably go and look this up online somewhere but I'd like to avoid spoiling everything about that season until I get to see it...

Also, Deva is spookily right about Jenny, it seems.
 
 
Cat Chant
10:30 / 14.07.05
Oh, so much to say about this episode, but will have to wait till after have finished writing thing for meeting in 3 hours' time (had 3 months to write it, started this morning, suck).

In the meantime - it was made clear in the first season that Alice identifies as bisexual, Fly (often in the face of some eye-rolling from her lesbian friends who think she's just gay, though she did have sex with two men last season. [Though one of them was a lesbian-identified man called Lisa, who doesn't really up her bi credentials much. Oh how I love the L-Word]).
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:40 / 14.07.05
That's odd, 'cos in this episode I thought she was offended at even being called bisexual, not just because the term was being used pejoratively. And last episode she said "Tanya tried to set me up with her friend Chris - she didn't mention it was a guy! *groan*" to a room full of Shane's hipster lesbian friends... Hmmm. Some issues there, for sure. It's vaguely interesting that there isn't a character in the show who happily identifies as bisexual, that it's an area of discomfort...
 
 
Cat Chant
12:05 / 14.07.05
Both times it's been Tanya pushing at Alice's bisexuality, hasn't it? My own feeling is that the problem with bisexuality is Tanya's (and the other lesbians around Alice) more than Alice's - Alice is pissed off about her perception that Tanya is accusing her of being "really" straight (setting her up with a guy, going on about cock-sucking, that hostile "make up your mind" joke). I actually... Okay, now I have a whole theory about this. More later.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
16:13 / 14.07.05
I think the Alice-bisexuality-pissed-tension thing is more because Alice fears Tonya will suspect what's happening with Dana, or that subconsciously Tonya 'knows something'... It's very weird, and it's not really explained, but it is pretty funny.

And hey, wasn't the sex scene fucking hilarious? Although it's kind of breaking your heart by the end of the episode. Poor Alice. Looking so wrong in her flapper dress and slicked-down bob.

Around Episode 5 the whole arc involving Helena Peabody is starting to kick in, right? You thought Wischnea was bad... Helena, although I tried to have some sympathy for her, just looks more and more crazy the further into the season you get. And control FREAKY in the worst way possible.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
16:21 / 14.07.05
Also, forgot to mention Helena with the bitchy slip about Tina's pregnancy. Poor Bette.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
17:14 / 14.07.05
Let's not forget that awful man and his awful cameras. Whatdoeshethinkhe'sdoing?

I felt incredibly sorry for Alice when she stepped into the room to be confronted by the uptight mother's speech. What a nasty shock.

It's vaguely interesting that there isn't a character in the show who happily identifies as bisexual, that it's an area of discomfort...

I think that it's quite astute. If all of your friends are lesbians or all of your friends are straight you become defined to an extent in your sexuality by that and you do feel uncomfortabel because you're the odd one out. When Tanya introduces Alice to a man it's a real slight because she's emphasising her difference at a time when Tanya is getting married to a woman. I found Dana's reaction to Alice's flirting interesting, not because of any jealousy but because she approaches it from the you never flirt with women angle, as if it's some kind of real problem that Alice behaves differently sexually with men and women.

An hour a week of this show just isn't enough.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:14 / 14.07.05
Confession: I quite liked Alice's flapper outfit.

Also, Mister Disco, the amazing thing about Helena is that she is the BRITTA WATER FILTER ADVERT WOMAN, star of one of the most famously awful adverts British television has seen in the past decade!
 
 
Disco is My Class War
15:21 / 15.07.05
Crazy. Well, she certainly has nice upper arm muscles.
 
 
Cat Chant
18:42 / 15.07.05
When Tanya introduces Alice to a man it's a real slight because she's emphasising her difference at a time when Tanya is getting married to a woman.

Yesyesyes. This links beautifully into my whole THEORY about this, which I will explain here before I go on to develop my Theory of Jenny, and then finally I will just list some of the things that were completely excellent this week so that we can squee together. Oh, can't we squee together?

Okay, so my theory about (is she really called Tanya? I always call her Tonya, but I suppose that is the way my English brane hears the American pronunciation of Tanya... I thought Tara on Buffy was called Terra for ages, as well) Tanya-Alice's interactions and the bisexuality is thus... One of the things which I think is genius about the L-Word, as I'm sure I've said before and will almost certainly say again, is the way it frames things. I mean, in terms of content it checks off a relatively predictable set of "issue" boxes (butch/femme, promiscuity/monogamy - though no poly, hmm... - lesbian marriage, coparenting/separation issues, interracial relationships, etc), but it manages to say something interesting about a lot of them, because they show up embedded in real people's lives and interrelationships and personalities. So the whole spat over "bisexuality" and whether Alice is a "proper" lesbian, etc, doesn't show up just as a set-piece conversation: it shows up, as these things do in real life, when Tanya wants something to needle Alice about. It's not really about bisexuality vs monosexuality at all, as Nina says - that's just a convenient set of needles for Tanya to use as she tries to keep Alice away from Dana.

I think the same kind of thing has been done with the whole marriage plotline, as well - two moments really stood out for me there: the first was eeevil Tanya's business meeting with the sponsors, which was such a nice, oblique, metaphor for the idea of marriage as an insitution (and an industry) that it made it seem almost like a new idea, instead of an Obligatory Lesbian Disclaimer, and the second was when Alice listened to Dana's mother's toast at the bachelorette evening. (Ee! So sad! But back to the point.) Anyway, because [Fly, here be spoilers for S1] when Dana came out to her mum, Alice was there as completely ineffectual moral support (she pretty much bailed on her). So she knows (a) that Dana's relationship with her mum around her lesbianity is really fucked up, and (b) that Tanya has done something for Dana there that Alice would never have been able to in a million years. So, again, that was talking about something fairly obvious, in a way - marriage as a relationship between families, not just the marriers - but, I don't know, just showing it in a way that was completely embedded in the actual personalities and situations of the characters, rather than jamming the characters into a plotline designed to make a point.

Speaking of which - I loved the Dana/Alice sex scene (Mr Disco, when you say 'hilarious' do you also mean 'v sexy and moving'? Or is that just me? ) When that scene finished you could practically see the post-coital smoke coming out of my nostrils. It had all the things that are practically cliches about What Makes A Good Sex Scene among slash writers - there were moments of awkwardness rather than unrealistic physical smoothness; it moved the narrative along; and it was in-character, but also revealed more about the characters than we knew before. Oh, and the awkwardness was EVEN BETTER in contrast to the awkward and abortive Jenny/Dana sex scene last season, because Dana hasn't got any less awkward but this time it was JUST RIGHT! Because it was with the right person! (See, Dana is endogamous. She should have sex with people she knows well. The exogamous sexy stranger thing is not for her. She is the anti-Shane.)

And so on to Jenny and her emerging butchness, as it tussles with her continuing little-girl-ness. Tangent said something about how she's really barracking for Jenny, because she's barracking for her to find her inner butch, and I agree - Jenny is still really annoying (but a brilliant character, I think - I've never seen that type dissected in such detail before, and the way she's represented is neither vicious nor overly-identified on the writers' part, I think, which is also very rare, given that she's not very sympathetic but is the closest we have to a point-of-view character)... Where was I? Oh, yes. Jenny is still really annoying, but now everything she does is like a struggle between good and evil! As best summed up by her cool Shane-esque boy haircut at the bachelorette party (good), worn with a WHITE DRESS WITH A STICKY-OUT SKIRT (evil). So that is all very exciting. Oh, and her scene with Bette was great, as well, in terms of the Jenny-coming-into-her-butch-powers thing.

Which! Leads me on to Bette and Tina! More of Bette's pathological-butchness this week, with the inappropriate self-centred bitching over dinner, the not-taking-Tina-seriously, and then, then, then the fabulously ill-timed bunch-of-flowers wooing! Bette is a fifties husband! I really wanted them to get back together at the beginning of this season, but now I'm extremely unsure: Bette has lost a lot of points for failing to cherish her femme. (And enter the cherisher! Squee!)

Favourite thing this week, though, was probably Camryn Mannheim's physical interaction with Shane - pulling her off her skinny little feet on the way into the Russian woman's house, pulling her head down into her lap in the limo on the way home. Just gorgeous to watch - makes Shane look like a tiny little frail thing and Camryn Mannheim look like a force of nature.

Don't care about Kit and this TOE guy.

Waiting and seeing about this straight-guy-with-video-camera plot, though the meta-ness of the interview with Shane and Jenny ("What is the primary lesbian sex act?") at least explained to me why they chose, throughout the last season, to depict the primary lesbian sex act as holding each other tightly by the shoulders and shuddering with rapture.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:53 / 15.07.05
Jenny is still really annoying, but now everything she does is like a struggle between good and evil!

Oh yes. The haircut gave me hope but then the endlessly repeating carnival scene destroyed about half of that hope but then it went up to 75% in the scene with Bette. But it annoyed me when she made Bette smile because Bette is such a fifties husband and possibly better destroyed than cheered up.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
03:29 / 16.07.05
Mr Disco, when you say 'hilarious' do you also mean 'v sexy and moving'? Or is that just me?

Oh yes. Most definitely. It was one of the sexiest sex scenes they've done. And also, slots nicely into the way the writers have been gradually diversifying the sex scenes past last season's really very boring frottage examples of Lesbian Sex.

I have to say, I find the conversation btw Shane, Jenny and Mark about 'what's lesbian sex' a bit too transparently pedagogical. It reminded of me possibly the famous explanation of dyke sex in a movie: Joey Lauren Adams showing Ben Affleck how you fist in Chasing Amy. There, as here, the point was to teach the stupid boys in the audience a lesson about the possibilities of fucking. Mark is, at least, slightly more attractive than Affleck, but he's just as dumb and know-it-all, and I felt Shane and Jenny, in particular, tolerate far more bullshit from Mark than anyone realistically would. I mean, he's their housemate. He's a creep. Surely they can see this.

Bette... hmmm. I went through a stage of really disapproving of Bette midway through the season. She is totally a 50's husband. Her task for this season is to learn how to be chivalrous and generous and loving without being a control freak, I think. This episode is like the pinnacle of her self-absorbtion. She does learn humility, though. And is way better off for it.
 
 
Cat Chant
09:46 / 16.07.05
I find the conversation btw Shane, Jenny and Mark about 'what's lesbian sex' a bit too transparently pedagogical.

Yeah, it wasn't great... I mostly think the whole Mark plot is a bit stupid and pointless, but I'm reserving my judgement on it in case the writers do something clever with it eventually. (Mostly I just hum and think of something else when Mark's on-screen, as I do during the "inside of Jenny's brane" scenes.) The sex conversation was slightly rescued for me by being great Jenny-characterization: (a) she would totally agree to do the interviews because she is a vile little narcissist; (b) she would totally go into "aggressive and rude" mode rather than "ingratiating little girly" mode, because she has such a frail sense of identity that she is trying to become Shane, in a slightly Single-White-Female manner; and (c) she's swinging wildly between (i) shoring up her emergent gay identity by overplaying the I Am A Lesbian And Therefore Know All Secret Lesbian Lore thing, and (ii) going all wobbly about her emergent gay identity by, in last week's episode, putting on a secret smile and whimpering at Mark about whether he thinks she's a dyke. So that aspect of the scene worked for me, though on the whole I mostly think the "explain to straight-boy" is a really clunky device.

And also annoying in terms of how, like I said, the L-Word usually manages to avoid that whole dichotomy between "by lesbians/for lesbians = good" and "implicated in heterosexuality = bad".

Oh, incidentally, Ganesh, if I haven't said so before, I really think the S1 DVD is worth getting. And I wish you were watching this season, so you could turn your diagnostic skillz onto Jenny as if she were a real person on Big Brother, or at least tell me what the relationship is between narcissism and taking on other people's personalities (is there a technical term for that second one?)
 
 
Cat Chant
09:49 / 16.07.05
the writers have been gradually diversifying the sex scenes

Yes, the sneaky little blighters - the last couple of sex scenes in S1 were getting good, as well, I thought (the lovely awful violent angry Bette/Tina fuck* and the Candice/Bette no-touching prison sex). Nice to feel like there's a long-term strategy there.

*I just found myself wondering whether that was when Tina's baby was conceived. Not sure what that says about my brane.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
08:04 / 17.07.05
great Jenny-characterization: (a) she would totally agree to do the interviews because she is a vile little narcissist; (b) she would totally go into "aggressive and rude" mode rather than "ingratiating little girly" mode, because she has such a frail sense of identity that she is trying to become Shane, in a slightly Single-White-Female manner; and (c) she's swinging wildly between (i) shoring up her emergent gay identity by overplaying the I Am A Lesbian And Therefore Know All Secret Lesbian Lore thing, and (ii) going all wobbly about her emergent gay identity by, in last week's episode, putting on a secret smile and whimpering at Mark about whether he thinks she's a dyke.


Again, props to that nail on the head interpretation.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:23 / 18.07.05
"Finally! It is happenin' to me..."
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:33 / 18.07.05
I felt Shane and Jenny, in particular, tolerate far more bullshit from Mark than anyone realistically would. I mean, he's their housemate. He's a creep. Surely they can see this.

In character terms, I think Jenny tolerates bullshit from Mark because she desperately wants to believe in the idea of the artist/creative person regardless of whether what's being created is any good or a load of creepy, crappy bullshit. The less sympathetic way of viewing this is that she's a crap writer herself and probably doesn't and will never know good art from bad. The more sympathetic way of viewing it is that she doesn't have the confidence yet to make that distinction - although she's growing in confidence and I think as a result this is diminishing and will diminish further. Either way, I think she hasn't yet realised that "it's for my art" isn't always a valid excuse. I mean, I think the times she rolls her eyes at Mark are when she doesn't believe that he's doing it for his art - she hasn't realised yet that it can be for his art and still creepy and out-of-line.

My guess is that Shane just needs the money (although maybe less with this new job?) and thinks there's no way this loser could ever really pose a problem she couldn't handle.

I also have this theory that it's a metaphor for the tolerance of Vice magazine, gonzo porn culture... But that could just be me projecting.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:30 / 19.07.05
Quite enjoying the 'Mark has the bedrooms on CCTV' plotline - it seems like an interesting comment on one of the reasons why 'a certain section of its audience' watches this show in the first place.

Hopefully (and it does seem likely,) he'll get to the point of selling the footage over the interweb before he's found out.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
02:36 / 19.07.05
I felt Shane and Jenny, in particular, tolerate far more bullshit from Mark than anyone realistically would.

Well as far as they know all he's done is stick his camera in their faces and ask them stupid questions. Sure it's annoying but nothing more than naive and uncommonly illogical. In my experience (when I've been asked that question- well, okay by 17 year olds) the simple response is to roll your eyes and tell people to think about it a bit more, oh and a swat round the head with the nearest object if they persist, which is difficult for unimaginative male virgins to cope with. In my mind I have labelled Mark as a teenage, cock-centric, male virgin with too much recording equipment. Particularly as his only companion so far has been a very stupid man who has made no sexual gestures towards him and he has not revealed his sexual identity I suspect that I am right in doing so. I like to think that Shane and Jenny have also done so and that's why they haven't noticed the creep that lurks within.

I mostly think the whole Mark plot is a bit stupid and pointless, but I'm reserving my judgement on it in case the writers do something clever with it eventually.

The only point to it seems to be that it is a question that comes up at some point. I do hope they're going to enlighten us as to why they've bothered to mar the show with it because it's idiotic enough when you encounter it in real life, never mind in fiction.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
03:15 / 20.07.05
I read somewhere that the studio or Showtime or some big bad male executives somewhere had asked them to write in a regular male character. Since Tim left and all. This explains Mark: and it also explains, somewhat, why he's such a complete fuckstick. The writers' resentment at the studio.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
14:19 / 28.07.05
bump

C'mon now, we can do better than this. 'You've been meat-tagged'. Dis. Cuss.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:46 / 28.07.05
When Jenny started to criticise that guy's work (is his name Hunter or is that my imagination?) I had to run out of the room and flail in the hallway for a minute or so. It was just too much, I could feel the insects crawling on my skin.

I'm worried about Shane. I'm worried that creepo is now going to develop a knight-in-shining complex and I now know that my initial dislike of Carmen wasn't as stupid as I've been worrying it was for weeks. She really is a Smallville character!!!
 
  

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