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Underground > Books, Criticism & Writing >

Dan Simmons

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Bastard Tweed

20:01 / 01.05.08

I concur, the nature of the deformity/mutation/whatever was distinct and specific enough to seem immediately recursive to the novel's own themes rather than an allusion to a previous work (at least not one so broad and archetypal as The Modern Prometheus).

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

20:38 / 01.05.08

Yeah, it was definitely something to do with the... (spoiler-free!) stuff that happens in the novel itself.

Quantum

15:54 / 28.08.08

I just finished Ilium and the other one, and although I have not read this thread in full yet, I wonder if there's any mention of how terrifically bad they are?

The Islamophobia was suddenly revealed halfway through the second book, and by golly it was astonishing.

More tomorrow.

Keith, like a scientist

16:51 / 29.08.08

Well, I liked Ilium quite a bit, to be honest. And I didn't pick up on Olympos' Islamophobia until reading his much-discussed Visitor blog post.

After some consideration I've decided to reread both in this post-Visitor world and try to be more critical of what I'm reading.

My first time through, I found Ilium, and Olympos to a lesser extent, to be an interesting take on the human future, as well as just a neat conceit with the Trojan War.

Hopefully this read will bring up some more interesting criticism, though.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:34 / 30.08.08

I really liked Ilium, and have Olympos but never got round to reading it. I'll give them both another go, I think.

I really hate that the same guy who wrote Hyperion and The Terror also wrote that fucking Visitor story. Oh well, I'll just have to perform the same mental sleight-of-hand that I do with Lovecraft and Wagner.

Keith, like a scientist

19:20 / 31.08.08

It's difficult to unlike something after it's already set in. I believe Haus brought this idea up earlier in the thread when he talked about "does someone's life color your appreciation of their work?"

For Simmons, it's different, though, since his shit behavior came after many people had already fallen in love with his work. How do you take that feeling away? I suppose it's similar to a relationship that breaks up due to infidelity, it's a betrayal. Not quite as personal, obviously, and maybe that's why some (myself included) can hate the man but not the work I have already read from the man.

Quantum

08:18 / 01.09.08

I didn't pick up on Olympos' Islamophobia

Dude, seriously?

SPOILERS IF YOU CARE DEAR READER

What about the thousands of killer Voynix hunting down our heroes in Jerusalem? While automated muezzin from every mosque scream "Kill the Jews"? And the fact that the evil Voynix were a bioweapon developed by the Caliphate of Evil Muslims (or whatever he called them) to destroy the free western states?
Or the world destroying black hole missiles in the submarine 'Sword of Allah' which was crewed by suicide bombers?

Quantum

08:40 / 01.09.08

"Harman at that second would give anything to rid himself of the twenty-six last personal and religious testaments by the madmen who crewed the Sword of Allah." (p664 Olympos)

Sickened by man's inhumanity to man (well, Islam) the character Harman then attempts suicide.

I claim shenanigans.

Keith, like a scientist

13:41 / 01.09.08

Dude, seriously?

Yes, seriously. At the time, all I can say is that I didn't read it as Islamophobia, but rather a fictional plot point. Hide my head in shame but that's what happened.

Quantum

15:37 / 01.09.08

Fair enough. Maybe it stood out for me after reading Visitor, but I do remember reading the army of monsters responding to the 'kill the Jews' call from all the mosques and thinking 'Now come on Dan, that must seem a bit strong even to you'. If I hadn't been over a thousand pages into the story I would've binned it but I had to finish, like the last few miles of an endurance race.

Bad books, bad. Plagiarised from the Iliad and Odyssey obvs. but also Shakespeare, Proust and a bunch of others, they're a mish-mash of elements strung together with some mediocre sci-fi. There were a couple of interesting elements but generally, I regretted not trusting my first instinct and avoiding all Dan's work.

Still, at least they were free.

hachiman

17:44 / 01.09.08

Man, i really loved the Hyperion Cantos, but that piece, really annoyed the hell out me.

I'm born muslim,though i dont practice much, and the amount of aggravation it causes me that a writer whose work means so much to me wrote that...hard to put into words.

"A better part of a Billion..." How the hell will you get a billion muslims to do anything as a group. We as a people are too busy inventing reasons to fight each other to ever get our act together in some kind of Global Islamic Super-Conspiracy...

Global Caliphate? Somehow i doubt it. Even with 90% of the single most important resource on Earth, trying to get a bunch of Muslims to do ANYTHING as a group fails miserably.

Quantum

16:20 / 02.09.08

Of course- I think that's the least of his terrible blunders to be honest. Painting all Muslims as suicide bombers struck me as a bit worse.

hachiman

13:03 / 03.09.08

It was very broad stroke, with incredibly shallow analysis of the trends in Islam and Islamic countries in general.

Reading his defence of that piece made it worse, it was bloated with a sense of how superior Simmons believes himself and his opinions to be

I'm a bit blase about 'All Muslims are Suicide Bombers", it's been a common taunt by stupid people i've encountered, and now it's even an in-joke for myself and my friends and acquaintances.

Simmons'generalization was lost in the malaise i feel at justhow much i am disappointed in him. Not that he cares.

Quantum

16:06 / 03.09.08

bloated with a sense of how superior Simmons believes himself and his opinions to be

I got that from most of his writing TBH. What a cock he is.

You're a bit blase about...?

hachiman

08:02 / 04.09.08

So sorry Quantum, that last bit is a typo. Have the flu and my head's a bit muzzy. Since editing your own posts sems to require moderator consent, looks like we're stuck with me looking a wee bit silly, and a lil bit incoherent

Apologies.

Mark Parsons

01:56 / 22.09.08

DROOD commeth. In 2009.

gridley

17:58 / 07.10.08

Dan Simmons is at it again. He's posted a new story on his site which treats readers to the story a corrupt, racist, openly gay, child-molesting Democratic senator whom he links to most of the Democratic presidential candidates of the past thirty years, right up to possibly conspiring to rig the election for Obama.

http://www.dansimmons.com/news/message.htm

At the very least, it gave my eyes a good roll.

Mark Parsons

04:14 / 08.10.08

(!!)

(returns from reading thread)

I had NO IDEA. 2009 will be Droodless then.

Quantum

08:59 / 08.10.08

He knows he's an asshat though, right? See this sarcastic comment on the linked page-

This will be only my second piece of fiction posted here under the Message from Dan rubric. (The first one, “A Time Traveler’s Tale” posted in April, 2006, was received, some of you may remember, with almost universally positive acclaim and has become a warmly beloved classic of its kind, often mentioned in the same breath as “ ‘Twas the Night Before Christmas” and Good Night, Moon.)

He knows we hate him.

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