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Underground > Books, Criticism & Writing >

Dan Simmons

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:00 / 06.04.06

I absolutely adored Fall Of Hyperion for precisely that reason- it suddenly shifted into this massive guns-blazing space opera that you'd known since page one of Hyperion was coming, but hadn't quite envisaged...

Damn, I gotta read these again.

01:51 / 29.04.06

Hyperion made us care about the characters by involving us in their personal stories and motivations. The great diversity of themes was very interesting. "Guns ablazing" may be more effective on the big screen than on the written page.
Can't get myself to start reading Endymion without having the second book also at hand... just in case I have to have the second fix. Do you recommend my rereading the Hyperion books before or after I read the Endymion books? It's been like a decade ago.
Got to sort out my 1500 books over the week. The HIV story in found in the book Love Death. Haven't started with his collection Prayers to Broken Stones.

12:43 / 29.04.06

I've not read any of his books yet, but I came upon this the other day and it leaves me unsure as to whether I want to read any of the guy's books or not.

All Acting Regiment

15:36 / 29.04.06

Yes, oh dear. In that link Simmons basically gets his house broken into by a time traveller from the future, which is now AN EVIL ISLAMIC CALIPHATE OMG OMG, and you know, helpfully tells us that "The Nazis didn’t invent the wearing of the Star of David . . . the marking and setting apart of the Jews in society. Muslims did that centuries ago in they lands they conquered, European and otherwise. They will refine it and update it, not toward the more merciful, in the lands they occupy through the decades ahead of you.” There's precious little ambiguity here, I don't think Simmons allows us to think that the time traveller might be lying. In fact, he has TEH SECRET KNOWLEDGE:

“Your enemy is he who will give his life to kill you,” said the Time Traveler. “Your enemies are they that wish you and your children and your grandchildren dead and who are willing to sacrifice themselves, or support those fanatics who will sacrifice themselves, to see you and your institutions destroyed. You haven’t figured that out yet – the majority of you fat, sleeping, smug, infinitely stupid Americans and Europeans.”

Fuck off, Dan Simmons, you clichè-ridden, fucking hate-spewing fantasy writer. I have no patience for it any more, from you or anyone. Fuck off and play with your elves or your miniature broadsword collection or have a wank over some hot Ninja/Thief/Mage cosplayers or whatever you fucking do. Why don't you lock all the doors and windows and spraypaint your miniature orcs indoors and breathe in the fumes. Fuck off and die.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

20:26 / 29.04.06

Not read the Ken Grimwood... but I wonder how he'd feel being brought into that, were he still alive?

23:09 / 29.04.06

Can somebody sum up the thing for me? I can be arsed to read it. Is he anti-Muslim or what?

09:21 / 30.04.06

Basically he's saying that while we're being all fluffy and tolerant and liberal the nasty evil Muslims are planning to take over and subjugate those of us they don't simply kill.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:33 / 30.04.06

READ THE FUCKING STORY FIRST. Seriously. Try to hold your jaw closed while doing so. It's surprisingly difficult.

Then try Googling "Dan Simmons Islam".

23:08 / 30.04.06

Sorry all, just read it. Good heavens.

It's not a short story; it's an essay, and it stills uses history in an ignorant way.

I have very few words on this subject that aren't "fuck" and "you".

23:44 / 16.05.06

Just like Ron Howard refusing to place a disclaimer before his upcoming movie Da Vinci Code, Dan Simmons did not clarify the source of his essay/story/dream/testimonial. If DS generates the same amount of discussion and intellectualization as RH, then it would not have been for naught. A controversial topic is always the best and most heartfelt.

01:43 / 17.05.06

Well, get a load of this. Mr Simmons is using the "narrow reality tunnel" argument to defend himself:
Your self-crippling is your own business just as your limitations are society’s burden, but please be informed that there is a thing called "SF"—once also called science fiction—which some of its more astute practioners in recent decades have chosen to call "speculative fiction."

Oy. There's more.

the 9/11 attacks were stupid and useless. Except from the truly nonrational and mystical point of view of a transformational belief totally removed from reality.

Lee Harris’s essential point—not just about the current state of Islam but about all such fantasy-ideologies past and present, (whether the fantasy arises from a religious or a political will to believe, or, as in the case of Islam, from both at once)—is that the essential and central ingredient of any transformative belief is that other people must serve as means to a greater transformative end. In this real sense, such collective fantasies as Italian fascism, Soviet Communism, German Nazism, and Wahaabist Islam are required to violate (or ignore) the greatest single advance in humanism and Western thought (including Christian Western thought)—i.e. Martin Buber’s explication of the I-Thou relationship. (Simply put, that human beings must never be used as a means to an end, but must always be treated as ends unto themselves.)

Oh my God. It goes on. I can't even be bothered to read the rest at this time. I'm tired from work and stress. I'll read the rest later.

01:45 / 17.05.06

Sorry, I didn't link. You can find this incredibly long and arduous essay here.

01:46 / 17.05.06

Sorry, one last quote:

Those who equate Christian fundamentalism with Islamic fundamentalism choose to ignore that when a tsunami hits Indonesia or an earthquake ravages Muslim Pakistan, it is Christian charities that are often the first to respond. And no one need convert or submit to proselytizing to receive such help. And unlike Hamas or Hezbollah, which also include charities among their lists of organizations, Christian churches and relief agencies do not fund or carry out terrorism. Helping others, not jihad or suicide bombing, is hardwired into all modern Christian thought.

Oh really, Dan Simmons? Tell me more.

All Acting Regiment

20:12 / 17.05.06

Coming back to this topic in am ore reasonable fashion than my upthread outburst, I think it's obvious that the guy's bitten off more than he can chew. He sounds like any number of armchair philosophers when confronted with the real world and all it's gosh-darn complexity.

05:23 / 31.05.06

Seems many people are prone to outbursts, cussing, name-calling, and defensive rationalizing. I've read his time-traveller piece, his lengthy explanation for the former, and the novel Replay. All the fuss is tiring. I prefer watching a movie than reading the production notes.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:00 / 31.05.06

I agree:

Your self-crippling is your own business just as your limitations are society’s burden

Is about as textbook an example of cussing, defensive name-calling as I've encountered.

14:47 / 14.09.06

Finished Olympos yesterday. Oy. Not nearly as fun or as epic as Hyperion Cantos. Even though Ilium-Olympos is pretty fucking epic, it doesn't feel as if the danger is real enough. With the Hyperion Cantos, that fucking Shrike always made the danger more present, more suspenseful. But anyways.

I'm still a little confused about the climax of Olympos. So confused that I expect another book in the series that tells me that everything we were told (by Prospero and Ariel) was a complete lie. We're told in Endymion that what was told in koans in The Fall... was all a lie. Great.

Hyperion Cantos seemed to stretch from one end of the universe to the other. Sometimes literally. The stakes seem infinitely higher, especially considering the time travel complexity. Ilium-Olympos doesn't have very high stakes. The Gods fighting and the Greeks fighting and the old-style humans fighting. They were all in-fighting. The only time I was fucking jazzed was at the end of Ilium and in the middle of Olympos when we start getting more information about the situation.

It always helps to have a gigantic brain sucking out energy from the ground though. That's awesome. But what happened to The Quiet? What happened to the fight between Setebos and everybody else? No, instead we get a guy dying of radiation poisoning in the sand. Sure, it humanizes the experience, and reflects more the genius that Simmons wanted to ape, (the quiet thoughts and turmoil of coming to grips with death), but I want fucking space-opera.

That being said, this might be the most literate space-opera I've ever read.

I recommend Olympos, but I'd rather recommend Hyperion.

01:22 / 13.01.07

This thread is quiet. Hmm...

Well, my copy of The Terror arrived today and I am already one hundred pages into it. This is a stressful, teeth-clenching novel. As I read this (and type this post), it's -40 C or -47 F, depending on your preference. Either way, I don't prefer it to be this fucking cold. It takes my breath away, it does. Anyway, reading The Terror in this weather is almost stupid. It's so cold in this novel.

Here's a synopsis/review from The Library Journal:
For the most part, it’s a straightforward sea story following the difficulties of the dwindling remains of Sir John Franklin’s failed 1840’s mission to find the Northwest Passage. However, in addition to scurvy, frostbite, botulism, snow-blindness, and threats of mutiny, the crews of HMS Terror and HMS Erebus are harried by some enormous Thing out on the ice. The story is told from the viewpoints of several members of the ships’ crews, with emphasis on Terror captain Francis Crozier and Erebus surgeon Harry Goodsir. The effects of malnutrition and climate on the men are related in grisly detail, while the predations of the Thing are often left vague. As several characters remark, the real monsters in this tale are their own shipmates and the North itself

So far, this is suspenseful, page-turning stuff! As Barbelith's foremost Dan Simmons fan, I recommend strongly. Especially if you like historical novels with intricate and sumptuous detail.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:53 / 13.01.07

Written by Islamophobic shitmats? I think that might be _why_ this thread has been quiet, Matt... which opens up the question about whether publicly and actively unpleasant people should stand independently of their texts... which is a tricky one, and I think one that is complicated in a number of ways in this case. Personally, I don't think I could see myself buying another Dan Simmons book, but I'm aware that in part that's because I don't personally find his work good or compelling enough to overcome the thought that I would be in some small way sanctioning tossery.

23:15 / 14.01.07

I actually got Endymion for Xmas and had been thoroughly enjoying 'Catholics in spaaace' for about the first 500 pages, although there is an element of the groomery - no matter how hard the eponymous lead tries to deny it - in his relationship with Ahnea. And it's really stiff, humourless conversation betwixt. But the high-concept, yeah, thats good. And the Catholics are kinda brilliant, mostly for reasons of pure evil, tho' I really find F.C. De Soya by far the most sympathetic character.

So, it was disappointing to return hence and learn about Simmons' views (also quite a bit more surprising than, say, Frank Miller's) on Islam and I do find myself less inclined to approach a book I was getting quite excited by. Whether that's related - I can't say, really. I dunno.

18:49 / 15.01.07

SPOILERS for the conclusion of a nasty little peace of credo polemic:

The Time Traveler said three last words and was gone.

I put the pistol away – realizing too late that it had never been loaded – and sat down to write this. I could not. I waited these three months to try again.

Oh, Lord, I wish that some person on business from Porlock would wake me from this dream.

It was not the horrors of his revelations about my grandchildren that had shaken me the most deeply, shaken me to the core of my core, but rather the the Time Traveler’s last three words. Three words that any Replayer or time traveler visiting here from a century or more from now would react to first and most emotionally – three words I will not share here in this piece nor ever plan to share, at least until everyone on Earth knows them – three words that will keep me awake nights for months and years to come.

Three words.

Entertain yourselves by imagining what the three words were - "'twas all bollocks", perhaps?

"Shat yourself there"?

01:18 / 16.01.07

I suppose we're never going to go back after reading Simmons' annoying letter. I'm pissed off at him for more selfish reasons, I must admit. I'd rather he not be Islamaphobe if only so I don't feel like a douche for enjoying his fiction. That made me think, however. I read Ginsberg and certainly I'm opposed to paedophilia. I read Tolkien and I'm not a hater of orcs (only moderately in jest).

Can we read [author] even though he's a complete [thing]ist? Can we seperate the work from the political views of the author? There's no hint of hating Islam in the novels of Simmons that I've read.

[Begin selfish whine]
Why can't we just read Simmons' fiction?
[end selfish whine]

MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!

19:45 / 12.09.07

READ THE FUCKING STORY FIRST. Seriously. Try to hold your jaw closed while doing so. It's surprisingly difficult.

Then try Googling "Dan Simmons Islam".

Stoatie's post is now #4 when you Google "Dan Simmons Islam." Neat!

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:47 / 12.09.07

Bloody hell!

That's SO COOL.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:43 / 13.09.07

Number 3 now!

(It's probably the closest I'll ever get to being famous. Indulge me).

Essential Dazzler

23:12 / 13.09.07

What were the three words?

TENTERHOOKS.

ONLY NICE THINGS

06:55 / 14.09.07

"Duran Duran revival". Or is that only two words?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:45 / 14.09.07

I like to think the Time Traveller looked at him disdainfully, and muttered "Dan FUCKING Simmons".

MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!

17:11 / 14.09.07

Kilroy Was Here.

13:59 / 15.09.07

It's supposed to be 'I'm your son/grandson' or something, I guess, becuz US familiz are at THRET from constant, ceaseless Islamic terrorism.

'You're a bell-end' is my preference, howevs.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:52 / 27.04.08

Um...

...my love of horror novels overrode my hatred of Islamophobes, I'm afraid (I'M FUCKING SHALLOW, ALRIGHT?), and I, well, I read The Terror, and...

...um...

...I thought it was fucking amazing.

Which is weird, 'cause Simmons' horror stuff has always been shit in the past.

I WAS PRETENDING TO MYSELF IT WAS WRITTEN BY SOMEONE ELSE THE WHOLE TIME, I SWEAR...

...but, erm, yeah. It was an awesome book. Written by a, well, let's say "less than awesome" guy.

And it makes me glad I never achieved my childhood dream of being an Arctic explorer.

19:27 / 27.04.08

Yeah, it's a right fucking bitch, idn't it?

They go out of their way to construct or arrange opportunities to blatantly show off some small-minded asshole quality and then they have the temerity to create a piece of art or entertainment just brimming with quality that doesn't even particularly touch upon the asshole qualities of which they seem to be so proud.

Bastards.

But it doesn't seem to bother me with some people's work, y'know? Phillip K. Dick was an obvious misogynist, T.S. Eliot was an anti-semite, Elia Kazan named names, Miles Davis beat his wife, Heinlein and Ezra Pound were just out and out nutburgers (yes, that list is all over the place, I'm trying to cover some ground here) and yet I still enjoy their work in spite of all that.

Is it because they're dead? Maybe it's because they're dead.

Yeah, that's what we'll do: whenever authors disgrace themselves like that we'll just pretend that they're strictly in the past tense and any new work is just a recently unearthed recording a la Tupac Shakur. "In spite of Simmons having been gored by a malfunctioning animatronic rhinoceros some years ago, a heretofore unpublished manuscript was found buried under his gardening shed in an airtight brass urn . . ."

Anywho-
[removes "Apologist for Assholes" lapel pin]
There was one element at the end that I still don't understand. Who or what was the deformed mummy in the frozen ship supposed to be? It certainly was a very striking image but I can't for the life of me figure out what it's supposed to mean.

And is it just me or is the fact that someone could give a story about a super-demon-polar bear biting the heads off hubristic Victorians a preservationist moral pretty darn nifty keen?

18:29 / 28.04.08

Haven't read the book, but

*Arctic explorer
*Deformed mummy on ship
*Victorian

all mean "Frankenstein's monster" to me.

17:14 / 29.04.08

Yeah, almost certainly a reference to the end of the Frankenstein novel.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:58 / 30.04.08

Hmm, I'm not sure why, but that's not ringing true with the novel for me. I've lent my copy out, but I'm pretty sure the description of its deformity wasn't very Frankenstein's Monster-y.

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