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Doctor Who spoilers thread

 
  

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Spatula Clarke
19:00 / 31.05.05
Right, I'm starting this up because it's becoming plainly obvious that some people feel the burning desire to post the specific details of upcoming episodes in the current thread, despite it being equally obvious that hardly anybody else wants them in there.

So please limit any spoilers that are actual, honest-to-god "this is stuff that is definitely going to happen" details in here. The other thread is going to be purely for discussion based on episodes that have already been shown (including predictions that *aren't* based on the viewing of preview tapes - 'Next Week' trailers are fair game).
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:01 / 31.05.05
Mister Six said:

from another forum:

"As will be revealed in Episode 12 of the same name, Bad Wolf is a reality TV show watched by aliens on many planets, it involves unwitting participants been thrown into different situations to see how they develop. Therefore, throughout the entire show the Doctor has had control of his destiny until episode two, The End of the World, it was here that he encountered the Face of Boe who turns out to be very instrumental to the entire Bad Wolf show, hence why he's operation was on the news. The astute viewer should now realise that it was after The End of the World that the Doctor first began to lose his sense of direction with the TARDIS this time around, and this was because he didn't control his destiny, he was simply there for the entertainment value that it is to watch he's suffering, for example:

Rose - The Doctor appears, unconnected to the story except for what the Nestene says because he speaks with a prior knowledge of the Doctor's destiny.

TEOTW - The Doctor encountes the Face of Boe and other rich aliens, it's here that he falls into the trap.

TUD - The Doctor aims for a different year and place to where he arrives.

AoL/WWIII - The Doctor is thrown of course by 12 months so that something more intresting can be witnessed.

DALEK, TLG and FD - No real explanation as to why the Doctor is where he is but barring Father's Day, it's against his will.

TEC/TDD - The Doctor is once again placed somewhere he doesn't wish to be.

In this episode the Doctor, Rose and Captain Jack are thrown into their final challenges to see how they cope with retro TV situations, this explains the use of Trinny and Susannah plus Ann Robinson. At the end of this episode they are given by the show the ultimate challenge, having to return to the end of the devestating Time War between the Daleks and the Time Lords. It is in this episode that the Doctor regenerates, thrown into a vortex at the end, altering the course of history and allowing the Daleks to survive. Therefore mostly all of the Bad Wolf references were an equivalent to adverts to the show, to say "you are watching bad wolf". Also it is revealed that this show the Doctor has unwittingly become involved in is looped, much like 24-hour television. He will always regenerate at the end of the time war, he will detect at the Autons but the most significant thing is he will always be defeated. That is until he chose to take Rose along, who wasn't part of the script, with her present, she breaks him out of the loop, he regenerates (he'll always be this way the same incarnation, a satisfying way of getting past the 13 lives rule) and gets a new body."
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:02 / 31.05.05
rawkusboi said:

The only thing I can spoil about the Daleks returning is that Jack is supposed to be tortured naked by them. I thought it was going to happen a lot earlier in the series, I think I mention it upthread somewhere. But since the "Dalek" episode without Jack I got a bit confused as to how that might all pan out. But yes, the finale does feature the return of LOTS of Daleks. Going back to the Time War would make perfect sense.
 
 
Withiel: DALI'S ROTTWEILER
11:05 / 01.06.05
Surely the Face of Boe can't be that instrumental, unless the "Ahahahaha! I was instrumental all along!" bit happens off camera, because the interview with the prosthetics man on the website explains that only the eyes are articulated and "he doesn't have any lines" or something along those...er...lines. Also, he's described as a "quiet, kind and dignified character". Could be utter bollocks, but does seem to somewhat discredit the "Boe=ArchUberVillain" suggestions above.
 
 
sleazenation
11:10 / 01.06.05
Well, the face of Boe has already been shown as anything but a 'quiet dignified character' after appearing on Bad Wolf TV talking about hir sex change...
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
15:28 / 01.06.05
I've not seen episodes 6, 8-10, when does Boe appear on Bad Wolf TV (aside from the ref in Long Game)?
 
 
sleazenation
17:12 / 01.06.05
The reference in the long game is the one I'm referring to... Apparently Bad Wolf is set on the same satelite 100 years on...
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
13:07 / 03.06.05
Still not using insider info but the gallifreyone.com site, a brief summary of Bad Wolf has been posted fitting bits of theiry posted above. Also John Barrowman teases that ep 13 will be an immense cliffhanger branching into seasons 2... and 3.
 
 
sleazenation
17:18 / 03.06.05
Coming back to the topic at hand apparently someone on the BBC cocked up and revealed who the Bad Wolf is...
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
17:44 / 03.06.05
Do I want to know?

It's Turlough, innit?
 
 
sleazenation
19:00 / 03.06.05
There are links to it on www.plasticbag.org for the curious...
 
 
Withiel: DALI'S ROTTWEILER
20:32 / 03.06.05
The disclaimer from www.badwolf.org.uk reads as follows.

Please don't email us to ask what Bad Wolf means. We honestly don't know.

If you're concerned by the thought that the universe has been irrevocably altered by an enormous experiment in neuro-linguistic programming, then just tell yourself "The Bad Wolf is not real. The Bad Wolf is not real. The Bad Wolf is not real."

EXCEPT FOR - if you select the text, this appears written in the background colour below:

Rose - Are you there? Are you getting this? You've got the point, haven't you? Rose...?

FUCK!
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
00:17 / 04.06.05
So this theory of who is the bad wolf was actually brought up on the other thread as it happens.

I don't like the theory, but the facts are pretty much in place.

Is it OK with everyone if we discuss the particulars or is that a no-no?

And yes, I am being serious.
 
 
Withiel: DALI'S ROTTWEILER
12:35 / 04.06.05
I'm fine with it, if that helps.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
22:59 / 04.06.05
Well the issue that the Doctor appears to be new to his body in the premiere 'Rose' yet the conspiracy buff has pics of him throughout history in that body is a tell of some kind that he is posessed by another entity.

But I still don't like that the Master hijacked his body.

(To clarify, this is all based on theory linked from plasticbag, not anything I've personally come into contact with)
 
 
Malio
23:10 / 04.06.05
I tend to go along with the theory that the Doctor himself is the Bad Wolf.

Back in episode 1 he referred to his own big ears (as in "all the better to hear you with...") and Mickey makes the same reference in episode 11.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
00:14 / 05.06.05
If it is the Master, I'm all for Derek Jacobi playing him.

The man is (in a way) the new Anthony Ainley.

But I still don't like it.

Fuck... Being that I cannot see the episodes as they air (as I'm in the US) I'm going to be disappointed in November when the DVDs are out, aren't I?
 
 
Withiel: DALI'S ROTTWEILER
10:43 / 05.06.05
Ah - the photos may now be explained, as Rose has already mentioned several places they've been to that haven't been featured in episodes - they might have been there already, for all we know...
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
15:58 / 06.06.05
As I've just posted in the main, non-spoileriffic Who thread:

Apparently we should check out the main Who website tomorrow.
I asked my source about the Bad Wolf/Reality TV show theory and he refused to spoil it but did say to check out the site for a suprise.
 
 
gridley
17:48 / 06.06.05
From the IMDB entry on Norman Lovett:

"Doctor Who" playing "Davros" in episode: "The Parting of the Ways" (episode # 1.13) 18 June 2005
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
18:19 / 06.06.05
no... shit.

That's actually quite brilliant.

I wonder if he'll be all laid back as his usual self. Imagine a 'chill' Davros, just sittin there and all, taking it all in, spouting the odd threat.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
20:42 / 06.06.05
I've heard this is a prank/hoax.

I'll let you know if I hear anything on it.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
04:22 / 07.06.05
Ah - the photos may now be explained, as Rose has already mentioned several places they've been to that haven't been featured in episodes - they might have been there already, for all we know...

I like to think, that since Rose is not in any of the images, that The Doctor was off doing things in time in the first episode, between when he left Rose behind, then popped back to tempt her with the time machine line.

Also, the conspiracy guy (Clive was it?) when talking about The Doctor says he has been involved in everything from natural disasters to ghost stories or something to that effect. We saw the ghost story already.

I dont like the "Doctor as Bad Wolf" theory, but I wont make judgement until i see everything play out.
 
 
■
17:28 / 07.06.05
[Shutting the fuck up temporarily disengaged]

The Norman Lovett bit is not true. Don't waste any more time on it. I'd love to see him reprising his Holly the sheriff role, though: "Do not forsake me oh my Daaaalek..."

[Shutting the fuck up re-engaged]
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
17:34 / 07.06.05
Is it really really not true or just Outpost Gallifrey untrue?
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
18:38 / 07.06.05
False alarm about the website.
The suprise was my name as one of the Big Brother housemates that have already been evicted.

*wets geek pants with glee*
 
 
adamswish
22:24 / 07.06.05
I've just put a little thing up in the original/main/whatever thread but thought I'd pick the brains of you guys more.

On the Bad Wolf website from the Who page you can goto the site of GeoComtex (another fakey put seems important as part of the story/ideas).

Is there any hints and clues you clued up hipsters can gather from looking through it? I've noticed the name VanStatten on the "Support" page and linked it back to (typically) the character in the one and only episode I missed (excuse me for a moment [bollocks] thank you). Did that character survive? And could this be the missing link the conspiracy theorists have been looking for?
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
23:54 / 08.06.05
Dunno if this is a spolier or not, but repeated from Outpost Gallifrey and the Birmingham Post:

"RTD: (on Daleks) 'Oh no, we've done them.. Because of what happens... I'm not sure we can take the Daleks anywhere else after that.' He confirms Tennant will be in the Christmas special (the Doctor is reported to regenerate at the end of "The Parting of the Ways"): "Having changes in the cast so early on is always a worry. But at the same time it's one of the things that keeps us on our toes. Just by casting David we're not becoming complacent because it's his face on screen and we've got to make it every bit as good, if not better, for his sake." And as for alien planets: "We're going to see some alien planets next time round. I've been cautious about that in the first series because we want to get it right. It's one of those science fiction things that can go horribly wrong if it doesn't actually look like an alien planet. But I'm very confident we can do that now. And the Cybermen are going to come back. Hooray! We like them."
 
 
■
00:18 / 12.06.05
No information in this post is based on anything you could not have seen or found out yourself, so I refuse to shut the fuck up about it. (There are no tapes for Parting of the Ways).

OK, here's my theory.

It's Mickey.

i) The Bad Wolf site is supposed to be fairly contemporary. The only person from the show that could have written it (bearing in mind they know Rose, thanks to the little blanked text for that clue) is Mickey. Remember that Dalek takes place in the future, so Adam would only be a nipper right now.
ii) "From Disney to destiny"? Wierd choice of phrase until you realise Who the most famous Disney character is.
iii) The Doctor is right that this whole show is for his benefit when the Daleks (and their controller) decide not to kill/transmat him.
iv) What was the main story in Boom Town? What was it for? The main plot was interesting, but what we really get to see is Mickey's final betrayal. It's also Mickey's first introduction to the phrase Bad Wolf (not that the meta content on the site is "Bad Wolf and Blaidd Drwg...").
v) In Unquiet Dead, Rose has seen the Bad Wolf. There are very few characters that this could be at that point. People have put forward the Doctor, the TARDIS and Jack (OK, that was mainly me), but she has had a lot more contact with Mickey.
vi) The only occurences of Bad Wolf references that predate the Doctor's revelation in Cardiff (in front of Mickey, note) that Bad Wolf seems to follow them around are the graffiti on the TARDIS in Third World War and on a poster in Father's Day. Mickey is just about tall enough to have written the latter of these and he lived in the area at the time, so perhaps that can be retconned. The Dalek grafitti is harder to fit into all this, I admit.
v) The Bad Wolf site links to the GeoComtex site, which appears to be recruiting. Mickey will presumably have heard about the Dalek from Rose, and the technology from Satellite 5. My theory is that Mickey, pissed off with everything, hating the Doctor and wanting to impress Rose decides to start playing a VERY long game by ensuring that he gets hired by GeoComtex and promoted to a position where he can ensure Adam is hired to play his part, and end up bringing future tech back to the near future. In the ten or so years between now and then, he can wait, knowing that the Doctor and Rose beat the Dalek, and that after this he will have a shedload of documentation on what the Dalek is and how it's built from the Van Staten bunker (Van Staten is not the head of the corporation, and is replaceable, remember?). When Adam gets back, Mickey knows he can hire him again and use all his future tech to build a Dalek unit. Mickey eventually becomes a Davros-like inhabitant of the first of a new line of human-based Daleks, but he's pretty powerless and there's no clear way to get back at the Doctor, so he waits. And Waits. He installs the Jagrafex and uses Adam's technology to construct Satellite 5 (bit of a time loop, there, but not without precedent) upon which the Earth becomes so reliant that when the Doctor does his heroics he precipitates a disaster so that it becomes reliant upon his Bad Wolf corporation.
vi) Why does he need Bad Wolf and satellite 5 and all the cloaking? Surely, as a Dalek, he could drop down and kick ass whenever he wants. That's not the point, though. He needs a big Dalek army, but the Daleks are dead. It's all about the Doctor and Rose. The people who get transmatted out of satellite 5 are sent to Dalek ships. Look carefully at the area Rose wakes up in and you can see people-sized pods. The new Dalek race is made of re-engineered humans. Why don't the Daleks kill Rose and get on with it? Because this is all about Mickey and his jealousy. That's why the Doctor is so confident he'll win. He knows real Daleks would kill Rose in seconds, and he knows they fear him for some reason. Real Daleks don't know fear. RTD has demonstrated with Second Coming that he really likes the Judas character, and I'll bet he wants to do it again.
vii) Listen to the preview. Sound more like Mickey right at the end than any of the other candidates, to me.
viii) Noel Clarke (Mickey) is in the next episode according to the Radio Times, neither Adam nor any of the other Earth regulars are.

Unfortunately, the other theories (Master, Jack, Adam, TARDIS, and any more) are not disproved by this episode, but I have more confidence in this one than any of the others. There are a couple of small holes but it holds a lot of water, and does away with a lot of deus ex machina hand-waving.


That whole blanking thing is very ugly, isn't it?


----Edited to remove blanking because it was so so very ugly and it is no longer really a spoiler.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:20 / 12.06.05
Yes, and since this is a spoiler thread, it's also redundant.

Also, small plot point: the Controller brings the Doctor to the Game Station in order to bring about her masters' destruction. However, if events are being manipulated all the time by the person who's behind the Daleks, then maybe that's only a surface reading.

In general, I think your theory is probably correct.
 
 
sleazenation
17:34 / 12.06.05
If it is I will be a bit disappointed because I don't think Mickey has it in his character. He is not malevolent, a manipulator or much of a mastermind. His horizons are not wide enough to play the long game.
 
 
■
22:43 / 12.06.05
I've had spoiler a thread turn against me already, so I'm taking no chances (and have not posted it it since then). Although I do (grudgingly) thank you for the vote of confidence.
Mickey isn't "whoahahahah I'm eviiil" evil, he's just been turned to the Dalek side because it's the only thing he can do to get the wumman he luuurves. We've already been shown that he has haxx0r skil33, and it would bookend the series nicely.
The Doc realises he's fucked up right from the start by coming between them and does the decent thing by sacrificing another regeneration to sort things out somehow (look carefully at the spoiler and the Daleks are shown flying away from satellite 5). The rage and fear he had about the Time Wars gets purged and he comes out the other side as a fluffier Tennant for the body. Hugs and puppies.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
22:54 / 12.06.05
He becomes overlord of the fucking darleks because his girlfriend dumps him in his early twenties?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
00:38 / 13.06.05
Yeah, what is he, a Barbelith poster?

Anyway, something I keep meaning to mention: I happened to have a flick through a recently published guide to Doctor Who baddies/aliens, which features fictional snippets from alien history books / encyclopedia, etc, written by RTD himself.

In the section on the Face of Boe, we're told of a legend that says the Face has a secret which he will one day whisper to a traveller. Well, that's the Doctor, isn't it? So is the Face of Boe the big bad? Would fit with Rose having seen Wolfy by the time of The Unquiet Dead, but it's a bit of a let down in a sense - unless Mickey IS the Face of Boe, which doesn't make a huge amount of sense to put it mildly.
 
 
Tom Tit's Tot: A Girl!
01:39 / 13.06.05
In the section on the Face of Boe, we're told of a legend that says the Face has a secret which he will one day whisper to a traveller. Well, that's the Doctor, isn't it? So is the Face of Boe the big bad? Would fit with Rose having seen Wolfy by the time of The Unquiet Dead, but it's a bit of a let down in a sense - unless Mickey IS the Face of Boe, which doesn't make a huge amount of sense to put it mildly.

I think it's likely that RTD is intentionally leaving tantalizing little plot hooks just within reach quite regularly, as with Jack's two missing years. While these might not be resolved in the current series, it gives material for future episodes and possible novels. Also, sometimes a mystery unexplained is better than one explained.
 
  

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