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Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch, And The Wardrobe

 
  

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Cat Chant
08:27 / 06.07.05
Pfft. I think it is you all who have lost the innocent wonder of a child. I hadn't heard anything about these movies even existing till someone linked me to the trailer a few weeks ago, at which point I came out in goosebumps all over and started crying. Which proves that I still have my innocent childlike wonder and will be LET INTO NARNIA while you all go to Hell, with your lipstick and nylons and boys.

And I don't really know why (sorry, Flyboy). The opening bit (before they get to Narnia) totally sucked, I thought - terrible acting and such a boring Secret-Garden-style stereotype of English houses - but something about the way the kids grew up over the course of the trailer, how convincing they looked as warriors/kings and queens, opened something up inside me and reminded me how much I, like Eric Cartman in South Park episode 607 (The Simpsons Already Did It), long to be taken away from this crappy goddamned planet full of hippies to a place where I am strong and free and brave and the ruler of a huge feudal empire full of subservient anthropomorphic animals.

Hmm. That's kind of repellent, huh.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:48 / 12.07.05
Aint It Cool News is reporting a rumor that Brian Cox will not the voice of Aslan, that it will in fact be the voice of Liam Neesen, supposedly from a very inside source who promises something like [I paraphrase here] 'this is so true, but it can't be announced yet.'
 
 
Jack Fear
12:01 / 05.12.05
I’m currently busting my ass on a Friday deadline, with the opening of this film waiting for me as a reward at the end of the week, so: huzzah.

A couple of interesting links to keep the convo rolling before the screenings begin:

First, a letter in which Professor Lewis expressed adamant opposition to a live-action Narnia, mostly on the grounds that it’d be impossible to get Aslan right. Walt Disney might be able to pull it off in animation, he mused, then lamented that Walt was such a prick. (I’m paraphrasing, here.) Interesting that with this version (its corporate source and its new technology) both Lewis’s greatest fears and fondest hopes are fulfilled.

Secondly, and perhaps more interestingly (and thanks to Our Lady, who reminded me of it): an interesting New Yorker article, nominally a review of a Lewis biography but an interesting gloss on the Theology of Narnia. Money quote:

[The] central point of the Gospel story is that Jesus is not the lion of the faith but the lamb of God, while his other symbolic animal is, specifically, the lowly and bedraggled donkey. The moral force of the Christian story is that the lions are all on the other side. If we had, say, a donkey, a seemingly uninspiring animal from an obscure corner of Narnia, raised as an uncouth and low-caste beast of burden, rallying the mice and rats and weasels and vultures and all the other unclean animals, and then being killed by the lions in as humiliating a manner as possible—a donkey who reëmerges, to the shock even of his disciples and devotees, as the king of all creation—now, that would be a Christian allegory. A powerful lion, starting life at the top of the food chain, adored by all his subjects and filled with temporal power, killed by a despised evil witch for his power and then reborn to rule, is a Mithraic, not a Christian, myth.

Now, I don’t know that I’d go that far: but I always got the sense that if Aslan is Jesus, he’s certainly a different sort of Jesus than the one we get in the Gospels. Part of what gives the Chronicles their weird hold—and make them distinct from mere allegory—is that they resist a simple one-to-one equivalence with Scripture. In fact, while the traditional reading is that Lion = the Passion, Battle = Revelation et cetera, I was always haunted by the sense that the whole action of the series was post-Apocalyptic—not in the Mad Max sense, but in the sense of picking up after Revelation, rather than retracing the steps towards it.

The conflation of Christmas and Easter in Lion is, I think, a pretty good clue that if Aslan is the Christ, then he is not the Christ of your fathers. He is the Christ Triumphant, the Christ already returned. With the reign of the White Witch, he has been relegated to the realm of myth. His coming in Lion is a Second Coming, but with a twist—he returns (bringing Christmas with him), then sacrifices himself (again?), pretty much at one swoop.

And it’s that way throughout the Chronicles. Though he appears briefly as a lamb at the end of Dawn Treader, Aslan is only briefly (in the overall scheme of things) a sacrificial figure. He is, throughout the remaining six books, a Christ in Glorious Appearing mode, King of Kings rather than Man Of Sorrows, and true ruler of Narnia—presiding, perhaps, over a thousand-year reign of peace (mostly).

Which makes The Last Battle particularly interesting. See, for the viewpoint characters—the kids—Narnia is pretty much already Heaven-on-Earth anyway: a place where you’re all kings and queens and you have magical adventures in the company of fabulous beasts and creatures, all under the benevolent eye of a King who is the Risen Lord. But when we discover that even this earthly paradise is, in the end, imperfect and transitory, and must pass away to make room for one even better, even truer—just how many layers does this onion have, anyway?—that Revelation is not an event, but a cyclical process, and it’s always going on and indeed may have already happened: with a message like that, forget about offending Muslims—The Last Battle is gonna put a huge twist in Christian-fundie knickers.

(The above reading is probably why I never much liked The Magician’s Nephew, because in its attempt to make Narnia more explicitly Biblical, it plays hell with the coherence of its internal theology.)

So yeah, I’d argue that Lewis is not laying down any sort of orthodox line, but a highly personal, idiosyncratic, ecstatic (casting Bacchus as Aslan’s attendant), even Gnostic version of Christianity.

And that, I think, is the key to both the enduring popularity of and the swirling discontent with the Chronicles: they seem to confirm the worldviews of both fantasy-minded kids and Biblical-literalist fundies—but only at first. When you examine them too closely, they tend to fall between two stools—unless you can bring yourself to buy into Lewis’s distinctive, quirky vision.

Thoughts?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:00 / 05.12.05
Maybe we need a book thread on this, but where do you think The Silver Chair fits into this? This has always been the book that troubles me most, Aslan doesn't (IIRC) interact with any Narnians and possibly doesn't even appear in Narnia, acting as a gateway for Polly and Eustace to enter and exit it, and the whole thing with the Witch being back/another witch who's pretty much identical and the bewitched knight, it seems to lack that clear moral centre that the other books have.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:12 / 05.12.05
Silver Chair seems a bit tangential to the series as whole, to me, since it doesn't concern itself either with Aslan or with the Pevensie family. It's essentially a book-length argument against secular humanism, and as such is more about the theological underpinnings of the series than a part of that theology. If you get me. If the other books comprise a sort of Bible of Narnia, then Silver Chair would be the Confession of St. Augustine.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:44 / 06.12.05
"I confess I am into older women and bondage."
 
 
Jack Fear
09:43 / 06.12.05
...not unlike Lewis himself, actually—at least according to the New Yorker piece—which I never knew.

(And of course you know that "confession" means something quite different in this context—a more accurate reading would be "profession of faith" or somesuch—but you simply couldn't resist the urge to be a cheeky little scamp. That's why we love you so.)

Keeping the soup boiling: this frothing little opinion piece from the Grauniad wherein Polly Toynbee predicts doom, DOOM upon the heads of Disney for casting their lot with those silly God-botherers.

A curious piece, and one I'll dissect more thoroughly after I've had my coffee and a strong anti-emetic: first impressions are that, although Ms. Toynbee has vehemence to spare, her thinking is a little, erm, scattered: "Britons are now so pigshit-ignorant about Christianity that museums now need explanatory wall texts on their great works of religious art cos nobody knows what 'The Agony in the Garden' means anymore—but that's a good thing, because Christianity is a horrible pack of sadistic, fascist lies anyway."

(I'm paraphrasing here, but not much.)
 
 
Lurid Archive
11:07 / 06.12.05
I'm glad you linked to that piece, Jack, but I think you are being unfair (no suprise there). Toynbee is an old fashioned socialist who dislikes religion, for sure, but particularly dislikes the triumphalist version of christianity depicted by Lewis. You, Jack, have said that the christianity presented is post apocalyptic, which makes a certain sense, whereas Toynbee disagrees. She thinks it is an attempt to ditch all the compassion from christianity so that all one has left is a celebration of the great and the good and a moral clarity that means one's battles are always righteous.

Narnia is the perfect Republican, muscular Christianity for America - that warped, distorted neo-fascist strain that thinks might is proof of right. I once heard the famous preacher Norman Vincent Peel in New York expound a sermon that reassured his wealthy congregation that they were made rich by God because they deserved it.

Its a little strong, to be sure, but this point isn't substantially different from Deva's point above. Christianity certainly isn't entirely like this...but this strain does exist in christianity.

Her points about cultural ignorance are a different but related part of her argument that adresses the propoganda elements of the film - again, propoganda is a little strong, but otherwise justifiable. I'd wager that Toynbee would spew a lot less bile if she watched a "christian" film which emphasised the anti-materialist, compassionate and pacifistic elements of the religion (of which there are many). Its a little hard to imagine such a film obtaining serious backing, of course, which is partly the point.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:25 / 06.12.05
Mm. Well taken. But I find Toynbee's conflation of America and Christianity—or, more properly, her anti-Christian sentiment with her anti-American sentiment—to be excessively glib, and her application of the term "muscular Christianity" as an expression of "neo-fascist" American fundamentalism particularly risible, given the term's pedigree in its original application to the teachings of Charles Kingsley, as not only a peculiarly English sort of Christianity, but as, in fact, a strain of Christian socialism—a term that Toynbee, no doubt, would find an oxymoron. Which, again, I find amusing.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:59 / 06.12.05
not unlike Lewis himself, actually—at least according to the New Yorker piece—which I never knew.

The books weren't clue enough?
 
 
Seth
13:18 / 06.12.05
Speaking as someone who in their youth would have been over the moon to be described as a *Muscular Christian* I have to take issue with Tony Bee, who I find worthy of piss-drenched scorn.
 
 
Seth
13:18 / 06.12.05
Flex!
 
 
grant
14:59 / 06.12.05
once heard the famous preacher Norman Vincent Peel in New York

Superficial, but... Peale. No relation to John, sorry.

It's odd, but my first association with "muscular Christianity" is the pastor antagonist in Photographing Fairies... might make an interesting anti-text, since it's also got that Secret Garden/kids exploring other realms thing going on.


I'm also curious -- what would a meek donkey-story fantasy film (or novel) have as far as hooks? It seems like it'd be a transparent allegory on the one hand, and on the other hand, entirely missing the stuff Deva is raving about at the top of this page... the desire to be king. Are there comparable texts that actually do that? (I might argue Lord of the Rings does a better job at that without trying to, but I don't think it's as good a fit as it could be.)
 
 
grant
15:31 / 06.12.05
Along similar lines, is it possible to give this movie a Zionist reading? Big lion being a big symbol for the House of Judah and all....
 
 
Seth
21:59 / 06.12.05
I am The Chronicles.
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:03 / 07.12.05
If we had, say, a donkey, a seemingly uninspiring animal from an obscure corner of Narnia, raised as an uncouth and low-caste beast of burden, rallying the mice and rats and weasels and vultures and all the other unclean animals, and then being killed by the lions in as humiliating a manner as possible—a donkey who reëmerges, to the shock even of his disciples and devotees, as the king of all creation—now, that would be a Christian allegory.

Isn't this the plot for Shrek 3?
 
 
Mistoffelees
08:05 / 07.12.05
I just have to share this one

 
 
Spaniel
09:51 / 07.12.05
LOL
 
 
Aertho
14:58 / 07.12.05
Is that Hillary?
 
 
Jack Fear
16:15 / 07.12.05
Yes. Smiling. Driving a chariot with DONKEYS. DO YOU SEE?

(Also: Oh my sides.)

(Also also: Shoot me now.)

(Also also also: Wake me when this thread gets interesting again.)
 
 
FinderWolf
17:23 / 07.12.05
So how is Tilda? And how is the Turrkisssh Deliiiiight?
 
 
+#'s, - names
17:42 / 07.12.05
Man, I'm all about the turkish delight. I got tix to go see it tonight, looking forward to it. Then KONG tomorrow night. Gonna let out a Jim Morrison style aaaaaaaaall riiiiiiiight

Anyone ever have turkish delight? What is it?
 
 
FinderWolf
17:49 / 07.12.05
I think it's like a sweet-tasting pudding/mousse type thing...anyone able to confirm?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:03 / 07.12.05
It's watery, sticky, sugary jelly - here. Not exactly an exclusive treat in the UK (nowadays, at least) - common sight around this time of year, next to the dates, nuts and other stuff that usually gets thrown away at the end of January because nobody's bothered eating it.
 
 
grant
18:05 / 07.12.05
Turkish delight is... well, it's like the center of gumdrops, a gelid sweet, typically flavored with rosewater and dusted with confectioner's sugar. You can get varieties with other flavors, but I don't think they're considered the real thing.

Insipid and sticky.

--------

One thing this thread (and the related Head Shop thread, and a discussion elsewhere) made me realize was that the difference between Catholic and fundamentalist doctrine was really down to an understanding of or relationship with metaphor.

This why I'm sort of gleeful about Narnia being used as a public literacy/sneaky missionary vehicle by fundie types (even if they're doing so under the aegis of Florida's Catholic governor). Metaphor's a tricky thing.
 
 
Jack Fear
20:12 / 07.12.05
One thing this thread (and the related Head Shop thread, and a discussion elsewhere) made me realize was that the difference between Catholic and fundamentalist doctrine was really down to an understanding of or relationship with metaphor.

I'd like to see this unpacked a little; are we talking about the line between metaphor and allegory, and how metaphor has a lot more wiggle room? In any case, I'd like to discuss this a little further.

One more whack at Toynbee, while I'm in a mood of universal love...

Of all the elements of Christianity, the most repugnant is the notion of the Christ who took our sins upon himself and sacrificed his body in agony to save our souls. Did we ask him to?

Lessons to be gleaned here:

(a) If you come upon a drowning man going down for the third time, under no circumstances should you move to help him unless he asks you to.

(b) Never buy Polly Toynbee a birthday present.
 
 
Jack Fear
20:19 / 07.12.05
Also also also also: Tolkien was Catholic, while Lewis was C of E. Discuss vis a vis metaphor.
 
 
grant
20:58 / 07.12.05
I'm not thinking about the line between metaphor and allegory -- I'm thinking about the line between metaphor and literalism.

To me, the big weird thing about fundamental Christianity is how sola scriptura got transformed into "Everything in the Bible is literally true (unless it explicitly says it's a parable)." This isn't just an approach to scripture, but an approach to reading (and a whole epistemology, for that matter). Think of those "God said it. I believe it. That settles it." bumper stickers. Then think of the whole "Harry Potter is teaching our children real magic, which comes from SATAN" mindset. (I have fundie relatives who own books like these, for Pete's sake.)

The idea of marrying that kind of understanding to something as weird-assed as a giant talking lion and children who become royalty is delightful. I'm not saying that the fundamentalist marketing of the film is going to give rise to Lewis literalists and Churches of Aslan Nazarene or something. But I do think that embracing of fantasy has the capacity to really screw with some internal cognitive machinery. It's not a culture that sits well with fantasy.

Catholicism, on the other hand, is fine with accepting a lot of the scriptures as metaphorical. No literal End Times, no literal Beast rising from the sea or locusts with scorpion tails, no literal snake offering bits of magic fruit to naked women. The process of interpretation is built into the doctrine. Freaky saints' visions are part of the tradition. The same is true for Anglicanism, as far as I've seen. The cognitive machinery is a little less... torturous (see "accidents" vs "substance" of the transubstantiated host for what I mean), but the mechanisms seem to be pretty much the same. A sacred story is beneficial because of its virtues as a story, not as a piece of history.
 
 
Jack Fear
21:31 / 07.12.05
Interesting. How, then, do you explain the huge success of The Polar Express among evangelicals? The church-based marketing campaign for that film was organized by the same firm that's marketing Lion to churches, and—despite the grumbles of secularist naysayers—it was warmly embraced, despite the fact that it's ostensibly a movie about that symbol of secular, commercialized Christmas, Santa Claus.

The guy at the American Family Association link above says that fantasy is a perfectly appropriate outlet for the besieged Christian living in an irredeemably fallen world:

The world is often a cruel place. Christians have an explanation for it -- it is called The Curse, and sin, as G.K. Chesterton reminds us, is "a fact as plain as potatoes." Humans long for escape, because we intrinsically recognize that while there is something wrong with this world, somewhere there is something right. It would be ridiculous to long for something that had no chance of ever being real. We enjoy magical stories because we pine for another world. We long for transcendence because we know there is something beyond. We experience wonder, because there is One who is called Wonderful.

The emotions we feel when we view evocative films such as The Polar Express exist for a reason. Of all people, Christians should understand the persuasive power of wonder.


Cunning theological insight, or heretical humanist seduction? U-decide!
 
 
grant
23:02 / 07.12.05
I haven't seen The Polar Express, so I don't feel that comfortable talking about it -- but it does seem like the Santa Claus story is a lot more familiar than the freaky talking lion. A permitted parable. (By the way, yesterday was St. Nick's day -- somehow I doubt the Krampus would catch on with the Polar Express crowd.)

I don't know, though -- maybe there's enough familiar iconography (the ticket bought by Christ being a motif used a lot by evangelicals, as pointed out in that Polar Express crit) that Narnia can make the transition. I'm not so sure, though. Seems like a mystical back door to me.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:42 / 08.12.05
Oh, Christ. Lileks is fucking priceless today, proclaiming (without seeing the film yet, of course) that if you dare to think that any other movie is more deserving iof attention than Lion, you're an out-of-touch secular humanist elitist (who is, it goes without saying, killing America):

[Entertainment Weekly] put “Brokeback Mountain” on the cover this week instead of that Nornio or Neeneria movie or whatever it’s called. For all I know next week's issue will eschew all things Kong for a big happy Narnia-o-rama, and my whole point will be moot, so there's no need to make a fool of myself. Again. The second feature in EW was a movie about a transsexual who discovers the existence of a son; for all I know it’s a fine movie too - but I do not think these are two subjects that necessarily grip the public mind. BUT THEY SHOULD! And that’s the sense that I got from the EW issue – not that you MUST see “Brokeback” to prove you’re not homophobic, but that you should, because it’s helpful. In some vague sense. Seeing Narnia is not necessarily unhelpful, but it gives off those Bible-y Christy vibes somehow, and while that’s fine, we must encourage movies about cowboys in love, because somewhere in some small town a gay youth looks at the box office grosses, and decides to stay in the closet out of fear he will be eaten by a computer generated lion who manifests the stigmata. Or something like that. As if the two movies are somehow in a meta-competition for the Soul of America; as if disinterest in a gay cowboy love story means that 99.98 percent of America HATE GAYS.

But disinterest does not mean intolerance.

I have no problem with EW putting it on the cover; I have no problem with the movie whatsoever. I do wonder why the editors chose that movie instead of Narnia, though, and I suspect that it was a matter of which provided the proper dose of societal spinach. Narnia appeals to them; Narnia isn’t helpful.


Where to begin, where to begin...
 
 
Jack Fear
12:26 / 08.12.05
(Answer: How about with ostensibly scoffing at the notion that "the two movies are somehow in a meta-competition for the Soul of America," the proceeding to write the entire column based on just that premise?)
 
 
Aertho
12:30 / 08.12.05
Would a transsexual be allowed into Narnia?
 
 
This Sunday
12:42 / 08.12.05
Trannies in Narnia? Well, I can't be the only one to wonder a bit about Mr. Tumnus, eh? And why do you never see Peter and Lucy together in the same place at the same.... oh, shit, you do. But, we've seen Clark Kent and Superman in the same place, too, so....
Narnia as post-apocylptic world, replete with Jesus Invictus with big teeth and a mane. I'm liking that interpretation more and more and wondering now why it had not previously hit me as such. Fits nice.
 
 
Aertho
12:52 / 08.12.05
Wait. So post-apocalyptic in the sense that Path 32 evaporated? Here I'm trying to reconcile Aslan's ethics in a world enslaved by Our Machines. Like where does the snow come from when the skies are black with pollutants, and the seas are red with toxic mutagens?
 
  

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