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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch, And The Wardrobe

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05:16 / 24.05.05

I'm not sure how widespread the preview for CoN was before Episode III, but upon seeing it, where they're going with it is kind of disturbing to say the least.

It... looked like LOTR with a lion and kids. Since when did the battle with the White Queen go from being a relatively small affair with the kids, Aslan, and a few animals vs. a number of the Queen's troops to being a field-spanning WETA wet dream?

07:32 / 24.05.05

I just downloaded the trailer, and I disagree completely. The design is way different to LOTR, much more classically mythological, cleaner and more innocent. It's substantially more idealised and less lived-in, which fits the more whimsical tone. It looks very, very pretty indeed.

The acting seems good too, although that's much harder to judge out of context. There were no really jarring moments, Tilda Swinton looks ace, and the kids seem to work well.

Let's face it, though: this film will stand or fall depending on Aslan. It's a phenomenally hard role to judge. In terms of special effects you have to sell the scale, ferocity and power of a giant lion to an audience. Lewis said himself that Aslan is not tame. But added to that, you have to pitch a credible film characterisation for what is probably the best depiction of Christ outside of the Gospels. Considering I've never seen a portrayal of Christ on film that come close to working I know there's a lot riding on this. It's such a shame that Brian Cox pulled out.

Have to say, though: that shot of Aslan leaping towards the camera, fangs beared and claws outstretched was fucking ace.

07:51 / 24.05.05

It doesn't just make you think, the ciiircle of liiife, then?

08:18 / 24.05.05

I just downloaded the trailer, and I disagree completely. The design is way different to LOTR, much more classically mythological, cleaner and more innocent. It's substantially more idealised and less lived-in, which fits the more whimsical tone. It looks very, very pretty indeed.

Pretty, yeah, no argument there. I just saw the huge dark army of orc-ish creatures charging across the field and LOTR was the first thing that popped to mind. It just struck me because as I recall, the battle in the book was considerably more modest in scale; which, combined with the orcs and some of the armor stylings, was mainly where the LOTR comparison came in.

The acting seems good too, although that's much harder to judge out of context.

Yeah, it seemed not too bad, honestly. I imagine anything would seem good compared to the live-action BBC version (gag).

There were no really jarring moments, Tilda Swinton looks ace, and the kids seem to work well.

Woah, come again? Tilda Swinton, love of my life, the best thing Hellblazer had going for it, is in there? That completely flew by me. Woo!, nonetheless.

I may just be reluctant to put too much hope into this. Treasured childhood series an' all. Despite the earlier comparison, I'd probably feel more comfortable with someone besides Disney, even if it was Jackson and Weta.

Regrettable Juvenilia

09:55 / 24.05.05

I just saw the huge dark army of orc-ish creatures charging across the field and LOTR was the first thing that popped to mind.

Because there's been a recent series of highly successful films based on The Lord Of The Rings. The human mind is funny in that way. But the White Witch always had an army of demonic, monstrous creatures.

Anyway... The most valid complaint I've read about this trailer is that the wardrobe is too visually imposing: the idea being that it should look like a normal wardrobe, and that the transition through to Narnia is supposed to be a passage that is all the more magical for being gradual. In other words, the moment when Lucy first opens the wardrobe shouldn't be drawn to our attention so overtly as a Big Deal.

But that's a relatively minor adaptation choice, and I'm more than willing to give this film the benefit of the doubt. Something about that trailer gives me goosebumps in a way that LOTR, Star Wars, the Potter child, etc can't: I suppose this is the key epic from my childhood, the one that I'm always going to be a bit of a sucker for on an emotional level even when I have more conscious concerns, criticisms, etc.

Speaking of which, I'm very interested that as early as the trailer, the filmmakers aren't shying away from the religious angle: "In this house, there are many rooms..." - do you see? It's tricky, because as with Tolkien's politics, on the one hand you can't ignore it when doing an adaptation, but you have to decide - well, do we want this to be an allegory? It's not so much of an issue with TLTW&TW because the allegory is basically the Easter story and that's arguably Christianity at its best - themes of sacrificing yourself for the sake of others, death followed by renewal, etc - but in a sense it's a decision that you have to take with The Last Battle in mind, down the end of the line...

Tilda Swinton as the White Witch is pretty much dream casting, as is James McAvoy (Shameless, State Of Play) as Mr Tumnus. Those two leave me hopeful that they're not going to play down some of the less wholesome undertones of the novel, either. Sleepy drugs in your hot toddy! Turrrrrkish Deliiiiiight!

10:08 / 24.05.05

I dunno, it kind of left me yearning for the BBC adaptations with crap animatronic Aslan and all.

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:50 / 24.05.05

Why not say why?

11:48 / 24.05.05

because sleaze well dug the chick who played lucy in it.

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

11:56 / 24.05.05

Interesting that its a Disney production, as our uncle Walt was, I'm sure I read somewhere along the line, a fairly 'committed' atheist, and there are a few threads of yore over in ye Temple concerned with Disney readings from Dumbo and others with Gnostic / magick-y undertones...I remember an essay somewhere about the atheist readings of Toy Story...I'll try and find the link.

As a franchise it's potentially huge, since there are loads of the damn books. New Zealand must love this upsrge in interest in the fantasy genre. It'll help fund their geodesic domes once the ozone finally evaporates.

Sorry, got posessed by the spirit of the Morpheus suit there for a minute.

(To completely rot the thread momentarily, while discussing locations for movies, the new Pirates of the Caribbean sequels are being shot in my beloved Dominica, so watch out for that.)

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

11:58 / 24.05.05

Here we go

Maybe 'Secular Humanist' is more accurate than 'Atheist'.

Regrettable Juvenilia

12:02 / 24.05.05

because sleaze well dug the chick who played lucy in it.

Didn't we all, Gumbitch?

Didn't we all?

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

12:14 / 24.05.05

Wow, the website is already going for it on the whole Franklin Mint Lovingly Crafted Action Figurines.

Yours to treasure.

KerCHING.

Tilda Swinton is really great as these mythological types though isn't she?

12:37 / 24.05.05

I think Flyboy's onto something with the "too visually imposing" thing. My impression from the trailer was that everything was just too damned big.

When I first heard they were shooting the Chronicles in New Zealand, my stomach kind of sank—because Narnia (in my mind, anyway) doesn't have those kind of breathtaking landscapes, that rugged grandeur: Narnia is a land of rolling hills and meandering streams—a gentle, pastoral place. It doesn't look like New Zealand, it looks like... well, it looks like England, in fact.

Even the professor's house—it's meant to be just a rambling english country house, not fucking San Simeon.

The Lord of the Rings comparison is an apt one, if only for purposes of contrast. The success of the LotR movies has, I think, raised the bar for fantasy films and created audience (and studio) expectations of what fantasy "should" look like—that fantasy should look grand and operatic, with sweeping vistas and vast armies.

The problem is, that sort of scale is entirely wrong for the Chronicles of Narnia, simply because of the sort of story that Lewis is telling. Despite the blanket title, these stories are never "about" Narnia itself in the way that LotR is "about" Middle-Earth. What's really important in the Chronicles is not the fate of nations, but the salvation of individual souls.

12:44 / 24.05.05

(By the way, I still call bullshit on the "Toy Story-as atheist-parable" thing.)

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

13:35 / 24.05.05

As you wish.

Walt, apparently, was an atheist, though.

On the other hand, so fucking what. He's dead. And wormfood, by his own beliefs. But his creation lives on! And is filming the Chronicles of Narnia. In an epic stylee. With a big, grandiose Wardrobe. Which looks wrong. Must. Construct. Proper. Sentences.

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

13:36 / 24.05.05

[threadrot] OK, not wormfood, atmospheric pollution. Whatever. [/endrot]

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

13:46 / 24.05.05

As someone who only read like twenty pages of the first book and then returned to Atlantis Attacks annuals, I was wholly unimpressed with the trailer. (And one would have to assume that Disney isn't only targeting audiences who are familiar with the source material.) It seems to me a clear indication that you can't just get a Special Effects house to carry a film without a director with his or her own sense of style.

It was like all these super enormous and important shots that have only been half filled in. Like, the trailer was telling me these shots were supposed to be important but I was just bored. I know that the books have a cultural weight to them but it seems much more like Disney wanted their own LOTR franchise, looked at possible candidates, picked one and then grabbed a director. As opposed to PJ begging studios to let him make his films.

Where's the love?

Although Tilda Swinton could spend two hours painting a living room and I'd buy tickets.

13:59 / 24.05.05

if 'dug' is as in 'would happily have dug her grave', then yes me in.

19:02 / 24.05.05

I clearly remember reading all the books and watching the BBC adaptations as a kid/teenager but for the life of me, aside from the first half of TLTWATW I can't remember a bloody thing about any of the stories.

That good huh?

The trailer left me thinking: "Oooh, WETA get to do more stuff like LOTR". Which is the only part of this behemoth (trust me when I say that they'll be filming all the books, that's why the bloody thing is called Chronicles of Narnia with the subtitle of "Lion..") that I'm actually enticed by.

But I think it's true, as a kid you were either a LOTR fan or a Narnia fan. I've had my childhood fantasy fantasy come true, now it's the turn of the other camp.

The trailer looks a little too primary colours though... the grass is so green!

19:19 / 24.05.05

But I think it's true, as a kid you were either a LOTR fan or a Narnia fan.

Nah, I read them at the same time and fell hard for both.

The trailer actually looks better than I feared. I'm a little wary of the scale, as noted upthread, but I withold judgement for now.

I just want to see more of the minotaurs, really (there are some WETA behind-the-scenes vids out there, along with the trailer. Yay for WETA monsters!).

19:48 / 24.05.05

I was neither LOTR nor Narnia.

19:55 / 24.05.05

What happened to the days of Bedknobs and Broomsticks? Whimsy! Whimsy!

Why must we war so blatantly? I second the nods to primary colors. I see that they're making some kind of Kansas/Oz comparison, but... it's KANSAS/OZ. Whimsy!

What do I know? I prefer Dark Crystal to any of this.

Actually —this feels like McFarlane Toys. Kids' toys made ONLY for adults. Which is a waste of time and money really. Isn't it?

Regrettable Juvenilia

20:24 / 24.05.05

What are you talking about, Chad?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

20:35 / 24.05.05

Why the FUCK doesn't anyone ever bother with The Magician's Nephew? It kicks fuck out of LWW. (Which I do also love, but nowhere near as much). And it doesn't have the stupid Father Christmas shit (I thought that fucked it up even as a child). The BBC never bothered with it either.

Just watched the trailer, and I have to say I wasn't overly impressed. Having said that, I watched it on a laptop in a pub, with no sound, so that may well have had something to do with it.

As Seth said, it all hinges on Aslan. If they do him properly, it could absolutely rock. If they don't, it'll be bollocks.

Tryphena Absent

21:39 / 24.05.05

Oh, someone else loves The Magician's Nephew as well!

21:40 / 24.05.05

I had to have an argument with my bf about the Magician's Nephew. Although it's a prequel he thought it was the first book released. In theory, if they do do the entire series, they should do it in chronological order of publication.

22:09 / 24.05.05

I’d always assumed that any films would play down the religious aspects, but presumably there’s a possibility that the opposite might be true, what with “The Passion Of The Christ” and the power of the religious right in the US. Which for me is a pretty horrific thought. The books are pretty much the only part of my (extremely) religious upbringing which I haven’t subsequently disowned - and nothing I’ve come across since paints religion in such a flattering light. But I suspect that’d be ruined pretty quick if the films start chasing the Christian dollar.

Totally agree about ‘The Magician’s Nephew’, although presumably it may be a business decision to start with TLTW&TW, since it’s by far the most famous. And, like rawkusboi says, they’ve always got the option of filming them in the order they were published.

With regards to Flyboy’s point about ‘The Last Battle’ - my initial thought would be that the last third of the book would be near impossible to film (or, at least, to film well) irrespective of the religious aspect. The bit where they see the apparition of Tash and the fight at Stable Hill are things I’ve longed to see ever since I read the book as a kid, but I can’t see a big studio knowing how to deal with the absolute lack of any conflict after that.

A little off-topic - excited and surprised as I am to find Lewis fans here - has anyone read the Sci-Fi trilogy? (If I get more than one or two ‘yes’s, I’ll be dragging you all over to Books to talk about it). And which of the possible follow-up films are people most or least looking forward to?

22:37 / 24.05.05

In theory, if they do do the entire series, they should do it in chronological order of publication.

Which would seem to be what they’re doing, given that they’ve started with The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe.

And thank goodness for that. Because I think I know the source of your BF’s confusion...

On repurchasing the books for my daughter, I was horrified to discover that the volumes have been renumbered in chronological order by the Narnia timeline, rather than in order of publication—i.e., Nephew is now Volume 1, followed by Wardrobe, followed by The Horse and His Boy, and then from there.

Apparently this has been the case for some years now, and is in accord with C.S. Lewis’s deathbed wish or something—proving once again that sometimes the author of a work really hasn’t got a fucking clue as to what makes it work (see also: George Lucas).

Foust is SO authentic

23:11 / 24.05.05

Why the FUCK doesn't anyone ever bother with The Magician's Nephew?

Ugh... in elementary school, before I read the series, one of our readers had an excerpt from The Magician's Nephew. That bit with the bell? Where the inscription warns that if you don't ring the bell, you'll go mad wondering what would have happened? The excerpt ended right there. At the time, I didn't even know it was a novel. My 9 year old little mind was traumatized - I was worried I really would go insane.

Anyway... The most valid complaint I've read about this trailer is that the wardrobe is too visually imposing

I'm really hoping that flash of light was just a bit of trailer trash?

A little off-topic - excited and surprised as I am to find Lewis fans here - has anyone read the Sci-Fi trilogy?

I've read That Hideous Strength. It was pretty good. Care to start up the book thread?

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:12 / 24.05.05

Now there's an idea - do you think we could get Lucas to direct the subsequent films?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

07:21 / 25.05.05

The editions I had when I was a kid started with LWW, but when my mum was reading them to us she started with Magician's Nephew, and whenever I subsequently reread them that was the order I went in as well.. Maybe that's why it's one of my favourites... Thing is, if they did all of them, The Last Battle's a great place to finish (when WAS MN published? After all of them or somewhere in the middle?) and they'd probably lose the momentum after that.

07:55 / 25.05.05

Yeesh. You know what Barbelith needs? A 'quote' button.

Anyway... The most valid complaint I've read about this trailer is that the wardrobe is too visually imposing: the idea being that it should look like a normal wardrobe, and that the transition through to Narnia is supposed to be a passage that is all the more magical for being gradual. In other words, the moment when Lucy first opens the wardrobe shouldn't be drawn to our attention so overtly as a Big Deal.

I can see what you're saying, but I think a lot of that will depend on (seriously) the music they play during that scene. If they have a rising crescendo leading to some massive stereotypical celtic wailing, then... it'll be more than a bit crap. If they (hopefully) play it a bit more subtly and have it be completely quiet until she steps all the way through the wardrobe (which would be appropriate anyway, since the kids are playing hide n' seek), and then start something quiet in the background as she steps into the forest, that'd be cool.

I can deal with the look of the wardrobe, as far as that goes.

It's tricky, because as with Tolkien's politics, on the one hand you can't ignore it when doing an adaptation, but you have to decide - well, do we want this to be an allegory? It's not so much of an issue with TLTW&TW because the allegory is basically the Easter story and that's arguably Christianity at its best - themes of sacrificing yourself for the sake of others, death followed by renewal, etc - but in a sense it's a decision that you have to take with The Last Battle in mind, down the end of the line...

I think they'll probably toe a very fine line regarding it. This is Disney, after all. Anyway, at least up to the point of The Last Battle, they can easily play Narnia as straight fantasy. God knows when I first read these books, I wasn't in a position to examine it any further than being a really cool series about a lion and some kids that go to a magic place.

However, TLB will get especially sticky, no matter which tack they decide to take with the series. Consider that Susan doesn't get to go along at the end because she rejects Aslan and Narnia. That doesn't exactly make for a sparkly, happy wrap-up.

Oh, and Silver Chair is better than Magician's Nephew. Nyeh nyeh.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

08:13 / 25.05.05

Actually, I hope this does well, cos I'd love to see The Silver Chair on the big screen (unless they decide to go all Jar Jar on Puddleglum).

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:15 / 25.05.05

I think we can all agree that The Last Battle is nigh on unfilmable unless one of two things happen: either a) the filmmakers restructure it so that the wrapping up of the world(s) and exploration of Heaven/Narnia-2 doesn't take up anywhere near so much of the story, or b) these films becomes ridiculously successful, even more so than the LOTR trilogy, and generate so much devotion and goodwill that the audience are willing, nay eager to sit through a cuddly version of the last bit of the Book of Revelations and all that "further on and further in!" stuff. Realistically, b) cannot be counted on so there will have to be some of a).

I honestly think they should just let poor old Susan get into heaven after all when it comes to it. I'm unconvinced by the apologist line which says "ah, it's all about the tragedy of the loss of childhood imagination" - come off it, she doesn't get into Heaven because she gets into boys and lipstick, and that struck an odd, unpleasantly discordant note even when I was a heavily if willingly indoctrinated Christian child. There's enough rampant misogyny and fear of sex in the books as it is - the main Big Bads (arguably just aspects of one recurring Big Bad) are these predatory women who will tie you up and control your mind and TURRRRRKISSSSSHHH DEEEELIIIIIIIGHT! - without leaving Susan out in the cold.

09:31 / 25.05.05

Maybe in the movie remake of TLB it'll be Peter that's kept out of heaven for getting into boys and lipstick. A canny and audience friendly alteration that will no doubt reflect the changing times and changing preoccupations of *The Christian Right*, who are apparently *rising* even as I type this, no doubt under the command of Emperor Palpatine and the Witch King of Angmar.

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