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In Our Time's "Greatest Philosopher Vote"

 
  

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alterity
15:03 / 05.06.05
Anybody want to back me up on my vote? Or at least share in my admiration for [Donna Haraway]?

I love her, although I can't see her as the "greatest" philosopher of any time, much less of all time. However, that's not because she's not great, but because no one ever seems to read anything but the manifesto. It's incredible, one of the most important essays of the last 20-50 years IMHO, but there is so much to her that no one ever bothers with.

The "problem" with the premise of this vote is that "greatest" is so indeterminate. If we're talking about the most influential, then my vote would be for Plato (who more or less invented the discipline) or Kant (in terms of modern philosophy) or Hegel (whom no in the twentieth century can seem to get over). If by greatest we mean who had the best ideas or opens the greatest possibilities for thought then my list would include Duns Scotus, Francis Bacon, de la Mettrie, Leibniz, Margaret Fuller, Nietzsche, Bergson, Deleuze, Agamben, Benjamin, Arrendt, and quite a few others. (Sorry they're mostly men. There just weren't a lot of women doing it before the mid-20th century, or at least very few that I am aware of. As for recent women, I like some of them, but none have been terribly influential to me save for the aforementioned Haraway.)

However, the greatest philosopher for me personally is Spinoza, whose ethics and politics are still vastly understudied, even with the publication of Hardt and Negri's Empire and Multitude. If we could come to terms with his notions of democracy and becoming, the world would be a much better place. He offers religion without dogma, democracy without corruption, ontology without a stifling metaphysics. By far my favorite and, to quote D+G, the "prince of philosophers."
 
 
dogtanian
15:59 / 05.06.05
having read your post, i'd like to add Arendt too
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
18:04 / 05.06.05
I doubt I could argue convincingly that he's the "Greatest", but as a layman I'd have to plump for Bertrand Russell. Whenever I read his work I always come away thinking, and never feel as though my brain is just a skull-full of mush after going eighteen rounds with a pedantic, bilingual, and cynical, humanoid Deep Blue.

A personal favourite is 'In Praise of Idleness, and other essays'.

I also admire that Mr Russell was a conscientious objector in World War II -- the last, so called "justified" war. I know it's not quite like swallowing hemlock, but at least he proved he wasn't just a man of words.

"War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left"

"One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one’s work is terribly important."

- Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)
 
 
astrojax69
01:27 / 06.06.05
and bertie once, when introducing a college chum to his parents, forgot their names!!

a fillip to anyone who ever beat themselves up for forgetting a name...
 
 
Sean the frumious Bandersnatch
06:33 / 08.06.05
I'm going for Nietzche as well (I heart Freddy)- at the very least, he's the most fun to read.

But Bruce Lee was the greatest philosopher when it comes to fighting ability.
 
 
Sean the frumious Bandersnatch
06:39 / 08.06.05
-Except maybe Wittgenstein, if he's armed with his poker!
 
 
Mourne Kransky
16:02 / 08.06.05
The final round of voting and the list has been whittled down to these twenty:

Thomas Aquinas
Aristotle
Descartes
Epicurus
Heidegger
Hobbes
Hume
Kant
Kierkegaard
Marx
J S Mill
Nietzsche
Plato
Popper
Russell
Sartre
Schopenhauer
Socrates
Spinoza
Wittgenstein

Hume's still getting my vote but he won't win. I can't prove a negative though.
 
 
astrojax69
21:41 / 08.06.05
epicurius, go epicurius!

o, food, wonderful wonderful pleasure. hedonism rules, ok....

[if i had to have money on, though, i'd say aristotle or plato... mebbe kant)
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:05 / 08.06.05
I voted for Marx because he's the philosopher who's had the greatest direct effect on my life.
 
 
madhatter
07:11 / 01.07.05
'though i find the "greatest philosopher" vote somehow ...yaknow...childish, i do understand the identificatory potential of "great minds" and our - even OUR (*laughs*) - dire need for identification.

and so...

karl marx (for his description and demythification of economy and its ways to influence/create our lives and mindsets)

maichail bakunin (for his way to argumentate materialism/atheism against the utilitarists and thus the broad majority of his times "liberals").

theo adorno / max horkheimer (for a consistent and OPEN historical/critical theory).

lao tsu (for solving the issues of phenomenology vs. ontology thousends of years before those names existet).

ferdinand de saussure (without him no structuralism, without structuralism no poststructuralism, without that one less instrument of critizism of ideology, without that our generation in even deeper shit).

------

good to see the board still exists.
 
 
Quantum
12:30 / 02.07.05
Paul Feyeraband, philosopher of science. He studied under Popper, and apparently after finishing his lectures on the impossibility of objective method etc. he would leap out of the window onto his motorbike and ride away! (Although that tale may be apocryphal) anyhow, he was a cool guy for a philosopher.

"Against Method became a famous criticism of current philosophical views of science and provoked many reactions. One reason for this may be that Feyerabend enjoyed using inflammatory and direct language. There is passion and energy in his writings unequaled by other philosophers of science." (wikipedia)
 
 
alejandrodelloco
13:47 / 18.07.05
...and the results are in.

1. Marx
2. Hume
3. Wittgenstein
4. Nietzche
5. Plato
6. Kant
7. Aquinas
8. Socrates
9. Aristotle
10. Popper

Nice to see Nietzche in the top four.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
14:10 / 18.07.05
nice also to see that they're all men, and all dead.

so much for variety.

same old same old.

really, yawn.

pablo
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
16:56 / 18.07.05
nice also to see that they're all men.

Yes, strange that.
Camille Paglia wrote a good article about that in the Independent Thursday 14th July 2005. Unfortunately it's been archived so now "premium" content.

Radio 4's 'Greatest Philosopher' poll yielded an all-male Top 20. But is philosophy really a female-free zone? On the contrary, insists Camille Paglia - and here are 10 to prove the point

The article list in no particular order.
Hannah Arendt, Hypatia of Alexandria, Sarah Margaret Fuller, Susan Haack, Simone de Beauviour, Mary Wollstonecraft, Ayn Rand, Elizabeth Anscombe, Anne (Lady Conway) and Dame Mary Warnock.

Now, as I've said many time before, I read and write slowly and well... from that list I've only read the Second Sex (I understand she had may have written some of Sartre's published work) How do think they compare to the all male shortlist?
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
17:38 / 18.07.05
how do they compare?

i've read a few of both the girls and the boys.

however, I've heard far fewer of the girls referred to, and hearing their names for the first time intrigues me.

so off to the lib'ary.

thanks for the word from Camille.
ttfn
tenix
 
 
sleazenation
18:38 / 18.07.05
So, for the record what is the dead/white count for the ten women philosophers outlined above?

Personally I don't think it's all that surprizing that the dead white male count is so high considering that philosophy tends to be skewed towards the relatively wealthy and relatively educated, both areas that white men have traditionally had a head start on their women counterparts.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
19:19 / 18.07.05
true enough, but why do we need to constantly revisit them???

are there no living philosophers worth their mettle?
are there no philosophers from, china, india, japan, ethiopia, etc etc who may be worth acknowledging?

i admit to my relative ignorance - however, reading the same names over and over again does nothing to educate my brain.

in fact, it seems to perpetuate the problem.

maybe this deserves a different thread. I think the importance of this particular thread is in discussing the relative merits of the philosophers in question. i just happen to be disappointed with the limited submissions.

but that's my albatross to deal with
tenix
 
 
sleazenation
08:15 / 19.07.05
true enough, but why do we need to constantly revisit them?

i admit to my relative ignorance - however, reading the same names over and over again does nothing to educate my brain.

This isn't intended as a cheap shot, but it's probably going to sound like one: Have you tried reading them? Or even some beginners guides to some of them? Or even's Jostein Gaarder's narrative guide to philosophy, Sophie's World? They might well help 'educate your brain' where just rereading their names has thus far failed.

Yes, the list is as sadly devoid of Eastern thinkers as it is of female thinkers, but that does not diminish the importance and influence that the theories of the dead white men that are on the list. I also think it is important remember that Eastern the influence of these groups on western thought have been, rightly or worngly, not as great or as publically acknowledged as their dead white male counterparts.

Yes, by all means read and research the works of less recognised thinkers, but to attempt to deny the importance of various and numerous philosophers on grounds of their race, gender or the fact they are dead is short-sighted at best and wilfully ignorant at worst.

(It is also probably worth noting that this list was drawn up by the public - both through via nomination to get to a shortlist and then by voting to get to the top ten.)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:43 / 19.07.05
Also worth remembering that In Our Time is a primarily historical programme.
 
 
Lord Morgue
13:16 / 19.07.05
Aw, voting's closed. I would've put in my two cents for the Raging Sage, the Anti-Guru, Stone Cold U.G. Krishnamurti, surely the Rowdy Roddy Piper of mystics.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
14:24 / 19.07.05
hey sleaze,

no offense taken. I have read works from many of them, years ago mind you, in translation of course...

sincerely, I don't mean to dismiss any of their contributions. On the contrary, it's these very works that have shaped where we are now, for good or ill.

maybe we need to branch out, if indeed we're going to globalise ourselves.

ten ix
 
 
Jackie Susann
02:09 / 26.07.05
So you all know Karl Marx won, right?
 
 
robertrosen
22:52 / 03.08.05
Interesting how Jesus was not mentioned. He is "Wisdom",He is "Philosophy".

Jesus’ aim in utilizing logic is not to win battles, but to achieve understanding or insight in his hearers.He presents matters in such a way that those who wish to know can find their way to, can come to, the appropriate conclusion as something they have discovered — whether or not it is something they particularly care for.
 
 
sleazenation
12:11 / 04.08.05
I don't think Jesus was mentioned for a number of reasons, most straight fowardly that not enough people voted for him, also I'm not aware of there being any works on philosophy written by Jesus Christ. Christian philosopher/scholar St. Thomas Aquinas did make it into the top ten though.
 
 
Proinsias
01:09 / 13.08.05
Quickly, perhaps stupidly, skimmed through the thread. Aside from one brief mention of Lao-Tzu there seems to be a dearth of eastern philosophy. As mentioned earlier religious figures may be out, there goes Buddah and Jesus, which seems a shame. It seems to me that western philosophy is hotly debated and argued whereas the eastern side is portrayed as some kind of religion, you either buy it or not, which is a shame. Granted their arguments haven't changed much latley but they did have a head start on europe by a thousand years or so , if we believe them.

Anyway I'm nominating Chuang-tzu (minus his bitching about confucius - I do find it funny reading enlightened souls bitch at one another).

Obviously Lao-Tzu

Big fan of Mr Alan Watts

and just to ruffle some feathers wasn't Bill Hicks spot on most of time

Just trying to get some fresh meat into the poll!
 
 
Orrin's Prick Up Your Ears
11:06 / 31.08.05
Shakespeare.

Show, don't tell!!
 
 
sdv (non-human)
12:19 / 31.08.05
wasn't shakespeare an alias for francis bacon ?
 
  

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