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Asatru, Heathen & Northern Magick Surgery

 
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
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01:08 / 12.08.05
Could newt's tail be a kenning for a plant I wonder?
 
 
Sekhmet
01:38 / 12.08.05
The process of making mead is very different depending on who you ask. A quick web search will verify this, I promise you.

I doubt you'll find much about "tail of newt" on most sites though.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:58 / 12.08.05
I put up a harrow to Frey next to his sister's this evening, and it's looking a bit bare. For some reason I couldn't find such a thing as a statuette of a guy with a big nob in the shops (I don't know, what's the world coming to, eh?) so I made do with an ear of wheat that I picked on my home visit and two High John the Conqueror roots from a London botanica. Seemed to go over.

What else might he like? (Apart from said statuette, I mean.) I was thinking of making a tiiiny longship, like the magic growy fold-up one he's got in the Eddas. Or is that just silly?

(I haven't forgotten Frigga, BTW, but she seems to have but me on housekeeping detail for the time being.)
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
00:53 / 13.08.05
Carving a long ship could take quite a while, but it would certainly be a good avenue for contemplation and communion with Frey, I would think. Clay might be another option, probably take less time than trying to carve something.
 
 
Unconditional Love
12:26 / 13.08.05
Is it frey that rides a golden boar? one of the vanir isnt he? Perhaps some boar tusks.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:14 / 13.08.05
Yep, the boar is Frey's animal. Failing the above-mentioned statuette, I would have liked a model boar to put on the harrow, but I haven't found one.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:49 / 13.08.05
Been meaning to show you guys this article by Diana L. Paxson: Utgard: The role of the Jotnar in the Religion of the North. It paints a rather more complex picture of the interplay between the Jotun forces and the Aesir than the simple "Order vs Chaos" model that is usually presented.
 
 
grant
15:34 / 15.08.05
Probably unrelated, but I'm curious how people feel this very basic schema sums up the Nine Worlds -- who lives where, what the worlds represent, etc.

Starts with Muspellheim and Niflheim, the worlds of fire and ice... and says that those were the only two elements. Between the raw energy of fire and the frozen solidity of ice, all things were created. Sounds almost Chinesey to me -- it's an interesting concept.

Also mentions that giants are in some ways elementals - fire giants or ice giants -- which I hadn't really thought of. That's in the Paxson essay, too.

I wonder if it'd be possible to use the wiki to make a hyperspace map of the nine worlds. (Go north and down from Midgard to reach Hel....)


I also wonder if, based on that Paxson essay, the idea of "yer local wights and nature spirits" might be the same thing as giants. Do we just have the sizes all wrong?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:52 / 17.08.05
Possibly... "The Jotnar are elemental in character and force, associated with the regions or environments in which they live... They rule the realm of Nature, and can thus be viewed as chieftains of the orders of nature spirits appropriate to various environments" (From the link above.)
 
 
Sekhmet
13:19 / 17.08.05
Within the myths themselves, the size of the "giants" seems to vary rather wildly. For that matter, so does the size of the gods.

How big is love? What size is valor? How about betrayal or fear?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:07 / 17.08.05
True... Skymir is so vast that Thor, Odin and Loki mistake his glove for a dwelling, whereas Skadhi and the other etin-brides are presumably about the same size as the Aesir.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
01:41 / 21.08.05
In re: my plans to work with Frigga, I found this article by the Viking Answer Lady. I'm planning to make and use a spindle as a meditative aid and a devotional instrument, so this was all very interesting...

From the article:

'Christian commentators railed against this type of women's magic. Eligius of Noyon preached that a woman should not "name other unfortunate persons either at the loom, or in dyeing, or in any kind of work with textiles," while the Corrector of Burchard of Worms, ca. 1010, sets the following penance for magical weaving:

Have you been present at or consented to the vanities which women practice in their woollen work, in their weaving, who when they begin their weaving hope to be able to bring it about that with incantations and with their actions that the threads of the warp and the woof become so intertwined that unless someone makes use of these other diabolical counter-incantations, he will perish totally? If you have been present or consented, you must do penance for thirty days on bread and water (Meaney, 185).

The colors red and blue were considered to be especially magical, and cloth of these colors was prized for straining medicinal infusions. The Dutch word toverij, the German word Zauber, and the Old English term teafor all mean "magic" and are related to the Norse word taufr, used for an amulet or talisman: all these terms are derived from a Germanic root meaning "red, vermillion" (Storms, 102-103). Red thread was used in medical applications, being used to bind off the umbilicus of the newborn, or to tie packets of herbs to an afflicted body part to encourage magical healing.'

Oooh, those evil women. Not big on the destruction personally, but I really like the concept of literally weaving spells. I will look into this further.

I can tell you one reason why red and blue might've been prized and seen as magical, besides the rather obvious blood association: They're bastard hard to make, that's why! Red can be got from certain lichens, but it's not easy. Use the wrong mordant (that's a fixative for dyes BTW) and you end up with a bucket of red water and some faintly pink wool. Blue can be got from woad, but that's a long haul--it is not until the second year of life that the woad plant gives a blue dye. The first year's seeds yeild brown. (Yes, it's the seeds you use; woad flowers are bright yellow. Really true.)

I note that the seidh-kona is described as wearing a cloak of blue. I'm wondering about the black clothes attributed to witches in modern folklore and pop-culture; black would have been a mighty hard colour to achieve. Maybe that's significant?
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
02:24 / 21.08.05
I think the weaving makes perfect sense. A certain amount of magic involves imposing order over chaos, ergo the weaving becomes a microcosmic representation of the desired effect; literally binding the way you wish things to be. From a strictly symbolic angle, of course.

As for the black, I always assumed it was for better silhouettes against the moon (...kidding!).

I think black became associated with witches because its a "bad" color, being the opposite of white, which is a "good" and pure color. Jesus dressed in white, the Devil in black. Hades, not a devil per se but definitly not a cthonic deity you wanted to fuck with, wore black and his name translated as "unseen one" (IIRC, its been a while since Ancient Greek).
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:17 / 28.08.05
Argghh, eight more pigeons! Better hustle on that spindle...
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
23:48 / 28.08.05
...another eight? She seems rather urgent and direct on this one.

Is there a specific symbolism to the number 8 within Norse mythology?
 
 
grant
18:03 / 29.08.05
Runes travel in aettr, which are groups of eight, although "aett" is also (apparently) the name for a family/tribe/clan -- a fundamental unit of society.
Or so wikipedia says.

I don't know whether "aett" really has an etymological relationship to "eight," but they do sound the same.

Something on Norse eights here.
Bit of a first-year paper feel to it, but there it is.
 
 
Sekhmet
16:39 / 30.08.05
Is there any definitive information in the Eddas or Sagas on what exactly Brisingamen (Freya's necklace) was made from? I don't recall ever seeing such.

Online, gold and amber are the most frequently mentioned materials - alone or in combination - but I've also seen mentions of diamonds and of rubies, and I wonder if there's any basis for that. I suppose if the name means "fire jewel", and it was associated with a stellar constellation, nice sparkly gems would make sense, but I wonder if people are interpolating...
 
 
cusm
01:52 / 07.09.05
Freya most definitelty != Frigga, from my experience. Aesir are of Man while Vanir are of Elf (the natural world). That assumption tends to annoy me greately. Its like assuming that all goddesses are the same goddess, which while all divinities may flow from a central source they certainly show quite distinctive differences in personality at the level we work with them. A good comparason is Aphrodite and Hera. Hera in particular is of similar office to Frigga, though I consider Frigga to be of considerably more approachable temperment considering she's mentioned as Beloved rather than Angry Jealous Wife as in her Greek counterpart.

As for Giants, again I think of the Greek counterpart in the Titans. Its really less that they are BIG, so much as cthonic and of the Old World before it was mastered by Man. They're mythic Dinaosaurs. Mighty, sometimes wise, but not particularly clever.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:48 / 14.09.05
Brisingamen: I've been looking into this too, and most places seem to give amber and gold as being the main materials. Mind you, there's no reason it couldn't have included other gems.

I'm interested in the supposed link between Freyja and Gullveig. I've read several pieces with deem Gullveig and Freyja to be one and the same. What backs this interpretation up? It sort of resonates, but also sounds a bit too convenient if one were reading the lore from an all-goddesses-are-the-One-Great-Goddess, One-True-Craefte-of-the-Wyse point of view.

However, if Gullveig is Freyja in disguised form, that's another interesting link between her and Loki: it would have been Freyja's heart that Loki found in the embers after one of the three burnings, consumed and gave birth from (see the Lesser Voluspa), thus creating a brood of ill-defined female monsters (which might refer to witches and seeresses in general).

Which would just rock on so many levels.
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
06:11 / 15.09.05
Speaking of Loki (and this is somewhat cross-posting with a post I'm about to make on the altars thread, apologies):

I've recently begun looking at a framed display of clay pipeheads that I have up on my wall as a sort of altar. There are twelve heads, all human, 8 male and 4 female, all made out of the same white clay. They're arranged in a grid pattern, three rows of four, in a square, with each head having its own little box by itself (with its own miniature frame seperating it from the other heads).

...anyway, the seventh head in is a man with a neck ruff, a thin face, and a sort of evil look, with short cut not-quite-straight-hair and a sort of frilly cap. For some reason I've always associated this head with Loki. It just seems to exude a sort of malicious trickery. Its also notable that this is the only head with something other than white: one of the front frills on its cap has a bit of gold paint on it.

So here's a question: does having Loki's head, or something that I seem to be associating with Loki's head, hanging up on my wall suggest the possibility of trouble, or is it probably harmless?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:30 / 15.09.05
Well, I have an image of Loki in my flat--a painting--and a shrine dedicated to him. There's been no noticeable ill effects, so I wouldn't worry too much about your pipe.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:45 / 16.09.05
...And now I have had two more pigeon-related emergencies: one sick pigeon on my balcony which took a couple of days to get rid of, and one very very dead one which chose a secluded area of my balcony to decompose on. Blech.
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
01:56 / 17.09.05
Mordant, it seems to be very pidgeon related. Maybe some sort of pigeon related god/spirit/whatever is trying to get your attention, rather than Freya? I'm blanking on what sort of mystical things pigeons could represent. The city itself? City messangers?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:09 / 17.09.05
Pigeons are associated with Frigga, as I mentioned upthread; however, the pigeon-as-messenger thing had also occurred.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:43 / 20.09.05
Does anyone know the singular and plural feminine forms of Jotun? I know it's one Jotun, many Jotnar, but what if they're lady giants?
 
 
grant
01:18 / 21.09.05
Isn't one of the rune poems in the first aett about a giantess?
 
 
grant
11:40 / 21.09.05
From absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia:

In (The extinct Germanic language of medieval Scandinavia and Iceland from about to 700 to 1350) Old Norse, they were called jotnar (sing. jotun), or risi (sing. and pl.), in particular bergrisi, or ursar (sing. urs), in particular hrím ursar. A (A female giant) giantess could also be known as a gýgr.


Also says jotun is etymologically related to the word for "hunger," and thus "glutton."
 
 
grant
17:44 / 27.09.05
On psychoactive bee venom in the mead: Chemistry of bee stings.

Nothing in there stands out as psychoactive to me, but I'm not a chemist.
 
 
grant
20:56 / 27.09.05
Book review of Sacred and Healing Herbal Beers or some such title. Memory loss... is that a symptom of something?

Mentions naught about bee stings, but does say heather is psychoactive. And here I just thought she was a cheerleader. I did ask the Ask Erowid people about the bee thing.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:27 / 27.09.05
After doing my own research, I can't find anything about bee venom being actually psychoactive in itself, but it does seem to have some health benefits. Whether fermented bee bodies pack a hallucinogenic punch, I have yet to ascertain.

Thanks for the link--I'll be sure to follow that up.
 
 
grant
00:24 / 30.10.05
Reading The Serpent and the Rainbow by generator-light, I find the following passage, I thought significant enough to hook up the hook up and post here:

In the late 1950s, Howard Fabing, a medical doctor, obtained permission to inject bufotenine intravenously into a number of inmates at the Ohio State Penitentiary. In the mildest dos an inmate complained of a prickling sensation in his face, nausea, and slight difficulty in breathing. In a higher dose these symptoms became more pronounced, and the face and lips became purplish. The final doses casued mild hallucinations and delirium, and the skin turned the color of an eggplant, indicating that the drug was keeping oxygen from getting into the blood. Further experiments led this audacious physician to conclude that the symptoms produced by bufotenine coincided curiously with the conditions of the berserkus of Norse legend. Our expression going berserk pays homage to these warriors who, according to Fabing, ingested a psychoactive substance that put them into a state of frenzied rage, reckless courage, and enhanced physical strength.

Wade Davis concludes here that the toad venom, which was well known in Europe (and around the world) for thousands of years, is the reason why zombi victims require three men to subdue them once the paralysis wears wears off.

The paralysis comes from tetrodotoxin, the stuff in puffer fish and newts' tails. Anyway, it's old Norse pharmacology that's non-toadstool. (Davis also points out that "toadstools" are called that because it was believed that toads became venomous from eating poisonous mushrooms -- another potential psychoactive/entheogenic link.)

I have no idea if Fabing did any more research or if anyone ever picked up where he left off with the Norse business.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:12 / 30.10.05
I'm a bit sceptical--I mean, maybe I've misunderstood something about the effects of the toxin, but is sitting around waiting for your purple army to come unparalysed before they can flip out a really good tactic?
 
 
ORA ORA ORA ORAAAA!!
12:53 / 30.10.05
The paralysis is part of the zombi prep, not the toad-eater school of fighting.

bufotenin itself doesn't cause paralysis, but I can't see how reducing the oxygen in the blood is going to increase strength... surely it would reduce it?

Bufotenin is really very close to DMT, though, one of the main active components of ayahusca and similar brews.

Unfortunately, I only have access to the journal after 1998, but the reference on this page could conceivably be useful. Any of the more medical types around with access to it?

From what I've read, also, bufotenin is a different thing altogether when smoked, rather than injected.
 
 
grant
01:12 / 31.10.05
Sorry, yeah, I was being unclear. Wade Davis/serpent an' rainbow was researching zombi poison, which consists of two Big Animal Toxins, tetrodotoxin and bufotenine. The tetro (which coincidentally is also in newt's tails) causes paralysis, while the bufo causes (apparently) a zonked out kind of rage. The one researcher Davis quoted *seemed* to think that bufo venom may have been linked to berserkus (or that at least berserkers were on *something*).

I was just interested in how the *other* venom also already popped up in this thread, coincidentally.
 
 
Sekhmet
00:24 / 06.11.05
This is only tangentially related to the thread at hand, but if anyone's interested - BBC Radio 4 is running a series on "The Viking Way". The first installment was quite interesting, and I did learn some things I didn't know, about, for example, shipbuilding, and some alternative explanations for the origin of the term "Viking"... Neat stuff.

The Viking Way
 
  

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