Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Temple >

Asatru, Heathen & Northern Magick Surgery

Page: 1 2 3(4)

Less searchable M0rd4nt

08:04 / 06.11.05

Oooooh, good old Auntie Beeb!

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:58 / 21.11.05

I've been doing some work lately with Hela and Mordgud, Her guard. I have this really strong feeling that Hela is connected to frogs and/or toads in some way, specifically as heralds or messengers, but I can't seem to dig out any lore confirming this. I've seen one or two other people say something similar, but none of them have provided references.

I know that frogs and toads are associated with Hecate, but I'm not happy with the whole "Oh well, that death-Goddess is associated with toads so this completely different death-Goddess over here must be too" thing.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

10:16 / 28.01.06

Me again.

I'm planning an altar service for Tyr in a week or two, and I wondered if anyone here had any input as to suitable offerings (besides the obvious mead/ale ect).

Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown

02:52 / 29.01.06

Tyr's the Aesir with one hand, yes? I forget, is he the smith god or the god of justice?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:44 / 29.01.06

No, Weiland is the smith of the Gods. Tyr is a God of justice and battle. As you say, Tyr is one-handed, having given up His sword-hand in binding Fenrir. Fenrir allowed himself to be tied down with a magical rope, but only if one of the Gods would place a hand in Fenrir's mouth. Tyr was the only one brave enough to do so. When the Wolf couldn't get loose, he bit off Tyr's hand in retribution.

19:04 / 30.01.06

Missed that frogs/toads thing, but they're awfully common symbols for death & afterlife, since they're amphibians (life cycle starts in water, until they're transformed and live on land).

20:25 / 08.02.07

From a tangent in the Orisha thread, I ask (or am asked to cough up proof) about the connection between Odin and the name "All-wise."

I find little of substance -- a confusing bit in the Havamal, and another bit in the Vafþrúðnismál, a part of the Prose Edda where Odin bests a Jotun he calls "all-wise" a few times during a wisdom-game.

After posting that, I found this, right above the "{p. 102}" in a translation of the Skaldskapamal:
Thus sang Úlfr Uggason:

His steed the lordly Heimdallr
Spurs to the pyre gods builded
For the fallen son of Odin,
The All-Wise Raven-Ruler.

This is one entry in a list of kennings used for Odin as part of a lesson-book (or encyclopedia) of language tricks of the skalds. It shows up basically the same in a few different translations.

Weird, though -- that appears to correspond to stanza 19 over here, and I can't see anything that looks like "All-wise" in what I'm assuming is the original Icelandic.

What am I missing?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

20:50 / 08.02.07

Well boshing away hamfistedly at the Zoega dictionary, I find that the word kynfróðs breaks down into kyn (astonishing, prodigious) and fróðr (knowing, learned, well-informed). So that would be "astonishingly knowing," which certainly doesn't trip off the tongue like "All-Wise."

Less searchable M0rd4nt

20:52 / 08.02.07

(Oh, fuck, I'm really going to end up having to learn this, aren't I... another bloody language...)

23:28 / 08.02.07

Weird, though, that the honorific would be stuck on three races like that -- dwarves, giants & Vanir.

Or, well, one each of the first two.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:38 / 08.02.07

The Vanir are heavly associated with wisdom. It's all "the wise Vanir this, the wise Vanir that." I'm curious now, though as to what word/s is/are being translated as wisdom in each case.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

00:02 / 09.02.07

'K, in the Vafþrúðnismál it definately looks like All-Wise in the original. TOEB tells Vafþrúðnir that He wants to know:

"ef þú fróðr sér/eða alsviðr, iötunn." (If you knowing are or all-wise, Jötun.) [My emphasis.]

I'm Googling for All-Wise Vanir, too, because In My Brane it just sounds right, but at the mo I'm coming up all vissa (just your legulation-length wise there).

Dammit, I wish I spoke Viking.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

00:07 / 09.02.07

Oooh look, a side-by-side translation of the Skírnísmal all in English and Viking. Yay! Now if they could only make PDFs that smelled like books.

00:10 / 09.02.07

Well, I guess it doesn't surprise me - I take "all-wise" as an adjective. Sure, many kennings are indeed adjectives, but unless the name or nature of the being *other* than "The One Who Is All-Wise" is being left out, I don't think it's meant to be a kenning.

So there are Vanir and Jotuns and Dwarves, and probably Alfar and Disir etc. etc. who are all-wise, but Odin may be The All-Wise One. Does that make sense?

--Ember--

Less searchable M0rd4nt

00:12 / 09.02.07

Yeah, that makes sense--it's an adjective, All-Wisey So-and-So, as opposed to Alviss the Dwarf who was a noun.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

00:12 / 09.02.07

(And later, a garden ornament.)

03:59 / 09.02.07

I thought that was gnomes?

--Ember--

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:06 / 10.02.07

What else would you do with a petrified Dwarf?

21:52 / 12.02.07

Be worried about whatever scared it so badly!

--Ember--

16:47 / 18.06.07

After an extended lull in practice, I've decided to rededicate myself to All This Kind of Stuff (of which heathenry is but a part) on the upcoming solstice. For some time, I have been dreaming about Valkyries, being swept up and taken in as a little sister, learning war-fetters, etc. and want to explore this. However, I know that they're not just pretty blonde shieldmaidens with curious headgear and do some entrail-weaving and other scary stuff.

So before I go off and get my corpse devoured by a raven, does anyone here have any advice for working with the choosers of the slain?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

17:04 / 18.06.07

Okay, first and foremost: if you go into this, assume that you will be drawing the monocular gaze of the Choosers' Top Brass somewhere down the line, and all that may entail. How you feel about that depends, I guess, on what you want to talk to the Valkyries for, what you ultimately hope to gain.

If it was me, I'd have a snoop around my town for a Valkyrie-appropriate location. The sites of old and bloody battles, a place where executions were carried out, a War Memorial, or a statue to some powerful woman or the abstract concept of Victory might all fit the bill. I'd head on over there after dark with some booze (mead if you can get it, strong beer or a really thick meaty red wine if you can't), pour Them out a shot and ask if They have anything to say to you. Don't make any promises or cut any deals at this point. Just clear your mind, reflect on your dreams and the legends you've read about Valkyries (you have had a look at the lore, right?), hang around for an hour or two and see what happens.

18:21 / 18.06.07

If it was me, I'd have a snoop around my town for a Valkyrie-appropriate location.

This isn't at all my field, but I thought I'd offer one possibility.

You described Valkyries as the "choosers of the slain."

From your profile, you seem to be located in Atlanta, Georgia, home of lord knows how many Civil War monuments and battlefields. (My wife's family lives there.)

Several churches in the area were converted into hospitals where women attended the fallen and slain during the Civil War. One of them, the Old Stone Presbyterian Church, still has bloodstains on the floor. It's located in Ringgold, Georgia, less than two hours away.

That town seems to have a pretty fortuitous name for someone interested in Valkyries.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:23 / 18.06.07

Haha! Ev G, that sounds perfect.

18:46 / 18.06.07

Haha! Ev G, that sounds perfect.

Indeed it does, especially because my family is originally from that area of north Georgia and Tennessee.

I think I'll sojourn up there with the bottle of mead I've been saving and the Edda and see if they (or anybody else) wish to speak to me.

00:27 / 19.06.07

I wonder if any of your ancestors were in the Battle of Ringgold Gap. Or tended to the wounded at that very church. (Civil War Valkyries of a sort . . .)

07:16 / 19.06.07

Huh... Triage is, in a way, choosing between the slain...

--Ember--

14:34 / 01.04.08

So, back on psychedelic mead, browsing Wikipedia on flower essences (don't ask) brings me to the "Heather" article:

Heather is an ingredient in gruit, a mixture of flavourings used in the brewing of beer during the Middle Ages before the use of hops. The use of heather in the brewing of the modern heather beer is carefully regulated. By law the heather must be cleaned carefully before brewing, as the undersides of the leaves may contain a dusting of an ergot-like fungus, which is a hallucinogenic intoxicant.[citation needed]

Which is interesting. There's a whole bit on gruit, which was used before hops got popular (monks had a medieval trademark DRM thing on gruit mixtures). The gruit article doesn't mention ergot from heather, but does mention other hallucinogenic plants:

Another factor behind switching from gruit to hops could have been concerns about public health. With stimulating, psychotropic and ultimately poisonous plants such as henbane (Hyoscyamus niger) or even deadly nightshade (Atropa belladona) being used rather routinely in beer brewing, local lords tended to want to edict a workable rule-of-thumb for the spicing of beer, preferably using a single, non-toxic herb which would be easier to monitor than a complex mix.

There's a great list of gruit additives here.

Page: 1 2 3(4)