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Galloway's victory

 
  

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Joetheneophyte
06:41 / 12.05.05
He is a pompous tit but no more than Blair can come accross most times a camera is pointed at him


I personally think these new allegations of taking bribes are far too coincedental and convenient, following so quickly on the heels of his election victory


what fortuitous timing

I don't apologise or support Galloway but I do believe that the powers that be and the establishment are using every dirty trick at their disposal to quieten the man

If this doesn't work, expect sexual scandals......more alleged financial wrongdoings and then as a last resort a nasty end or medical emergency
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:15 / 12.05.05
Whatever you might feel about the quality of Paxman's question what is not indoubt is that Galloway's reply was of even worse quality

How is that "not indoubt"? Yes, it would have been better if Galloway could have risen above it and not risen to the bait. But it's one thing to let someone provoke you into a pointless macho slanging match - it's another thing to deliberately start one in the way Paxman did.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
08:35 / 12.05.05
I suspect that, had Galloway attempted to give a reasonable answer, Paxman would simply have repeated his question... I heard someone on Today the next morning asking Galloway exactly the same thing and she did get a better answer from him, I think (less bullish).

I haven't formed an opinion on Galloway yet (though I like the Respect platform) and will be interested to see what happens in Bethnal Green - if he's not seen as representing the consituents adequately it's likely that Respect will lose the seat next time round, whether he stands or not. So his conduct will indicate whether he's more concerned about his party or himself...
 
 
sleazenation
09:55 / 12.05.05
But it's one thing to let someone provoke you into a pointless macho slanging match - it's another thing to deliberately start one in the way Paxman did.

Who is more foolish? The fool? or the fool who follows him?
 
 
Char Aina
14:05 / 12.05.05
just spotted this:

Contrary to [galloway's] assertions, a committee spokesman said “at no time” did he contact them by any means “including but not limited to telephone, fax, email, letter, Morse code or carrier pigeon”.


someone's lying.
 
 
w1rebaby
14:23 / 12.05.05
I wouldn't say that the US government has the best track record there.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:53 / 12.05.05
Has everyone forgotten Galloway's pro-life stance? Christ, I was opposed to the war, but I wouldn't have voted for him- for various reasons, but that one, as far as I know, is not in doubt.

But all this does give me the chance to break out an old Saddam Hussein joke in new clothes: "What time does George Galloway have his lunch? Same time as Tariq Aziz". (Only really works aloud, I guess).
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:58 / 12.05.05
Has everyone forgotten Galloway's pro-life stance?

Is there evidence on this one? Respect has the preservation of a woman's right to choose as a manifesto pledge...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
06:21 / 13.05.05
'I have religious beliefs and try to live by them,' Galloway tells me. 'I have all my life been against abortion and against euthanasia - in fact, on Question Time two weeks ago I was the only panellist to inveigh against the creeping euthanasia in our society. I am not surprised if my position on these issues strikes a chord.'
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
06:58 / 13.05.05
Interesting timing, as far as the 'new' allegations are concerned... on the one hand, it's difficult to even consider trusting anything connected to the current US administration. On the other hand, what exactly has the US government got to gain by smearing Galloway? He's deluding himself (and it wouldn't be the first time) if he thinks that he's even a blip on Bush's radar. His return allegations of conspiracy are... well, just painful. It's not like he's the Voice In The Wilderness here... plenty of people have said what he's saying, just with less bombast, ego and florid exaggerations.
 
 
w1rebaby
16:12 / 17.05.05
If anyone's interested, I just watched the Galloway hearing with the Senate committee, and I posted updates and a conclusion here.

I'll post a bit more on this thread when I've mulled things over, but I don't think my basic conclusions on that post will change much. He made the committee's actual allegations look silly and the only point where he fell down was when asked the question about whether he'd be disturbed if it turned out that money had been going to his charity from sanctions breaches, and that's irrelevant really as far as the question of whether he got oil or oil money from Hussein goes; it's a character issue.

(He still could have done better there though. I'd have expected him to follow his denunciations of the oil-for-food programme with a statement that since he thought it was an awful programme he wouldn't have been that disturbed, which was where he seemed to be going, but he was waffling a bit and got cut off. He was obviously trying to avoid being accused of having no respect for international law, given his constant denunciations of the attack on Iraq as illegal.)
 
 
pornotaxi
20:09 / 17.05.05
the only point where he fell down was when asked the question about whether he'd be disturbed if it turned out that money had been going to his charity from sanctions breaches, and that's irrelevant really as far as the question of whether he got oil or oil money from Hussein goes; it's a character issue.

it was a leading question for future use, galloway's answer to be pulled out and referred to when the senate get to zurikat later. but george was wise to it. and played his hand superbly throughout his testimony. ya beauty.
 
 
The Falcon
20:41 / 17.05.05
I really enjoyed George's performance today, not simply because he is 100% Dundee (funny - that is to say, not Dundonian - accent, mind); hope it's on the front of the papers tomorrow, as it's leading the news now.

It was just pleasing to see it said so starkly. Anyone'd have done, really, but as I say the performance was excellent.
 
 
The Falcon
20:45 / 17.05.05
*reading fridgemag's report*

Oh yeah, 'schoolboy error'. Sky News was running that along the bottom as they broadcast live. Pleasing.
 
 
astrojax69
03:39 / 18.05.05
i loved galloway's performance, from the mccarthy-ism 'i am not now, nor never have been...' opening salvo, to coleman's affront at his personal support for the illegal war - where of course george was inferring the whole us senate in his use of 'you' (if it weren't america, it would be the royal 'you' )

one of the best displays i have seen - he is fantastic.

and i also watched the bbc interview with him following his seat victory. paxman (was that the interviewer?) called the previous mp's there support for the war 'loyal'!! fuck. one of the most preposterous interviews i've seen, including all of ali g's...
 
 
Char Aina
10:32 / 18.05.05
you cannae beat his nswer to that journo outside who asked george if he thought it was wise to call the senator a crazed neocon...

he called him a crazed, pro israel, pro war, neocon hawk and a lickspittle of bush.

so no deference at all, then.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:37 / 18.05.05
Enjoyed Galloway's typical playing to the gallery, purely on the grounds that it's not often you get someone in Yank politics actually sticking the boot in like that, and they - especially Coleman - clearly didn't know what on earth to do with him.

However, as he predicted, there's no evidence against him at the moment, and what there was has been rubbished as old and disproven news, so the allegations don't work at the moment. Of course, since Galloway isn't a big deal in these investigations, it's hardly surprising they didn't spend much time on him. He's only a big deal in his own head, and ironically has brought more national and international attention to these latest allegations from the Committee by trumpeting about them so much in the media. All he would have had to have done is dismiss them as based on the fabricated documents that knocked the Telegraph and the CSM for six, but George Galloway has to turn everything into a media circus with himself as ringmaster/lion tamer...

Interesting mention of Zuriekat again... a man who was trading with Iraq for oil, who was the major contributor to the Mariam Appeal, who took over as Chairman of the Appeal after Galloway, and to whom all the remaining financial records went to after the handover - a friend/close acquaintance of Galloway's, apparently, who Galloway was not able to contact to have said records returned for examination.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:48 / 18.05.05
He's only a big deal in his own head, and ironically has brought more national and international attention to these latest allegations from the Committee by trumpeting about them so much in the media.

So how does that square with the accusation of careerism, if Galloway is willing to draw attention to allegations made against him? Might it not suggest that he thinks it's worth it in order to serve the broader purpose of drawing attention to the issues he wishes to raise regarding the war?
 
 
lord henry strikes back
11:22 / 18.05.05
Where was Galloway going with his 'you supported an illegal war'? If he meant 'you' as in Coleman then he was wrong. If he meant 'you' as in the Senate then the responce should have been 'as did you' (as in the House of Commons).
 
 
Char Aina
11:38 / 18.05.05
So how does that square with the accusation of careerism, if Galloway is willing to draw attention to allegations made against him?

i dont know about careerism, but he certainly seemed to be in his element at the center of attention.
i get the distinct feeling george feels he is destined for greatness or to be remembered as a hero.
and he likes it.
a lot.

if i had good eveidence, i would post it.
all i have to go on is his continuing character as i have observed it locally and, more recently, nationally.

so yeah.
i could be wrong.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:41 / 18.05.05
I read that as saying that the (accurate and well-founded) accusations against others will be dragged into the limelight by Galloway's defence against the (inaccurate and ill-founded) accusations made against him, although I could be wrong. If so, that does suggest that the other allegations _will_ be accurate and well-founded. If they are, then surely they _should_ come out - if we want the truth, we can't decline to listen to genuinely damning evidence, even against opponents of the war and supporters of the UN.

However, this is not an auspicious start. Galloway had the option of simply citing the Telegraph libel judgement. His interrogators had the option of not attempting to apply the same smear, with the same lack of evidence. They chose not to let the actual field of the inquiry get in the way of presenting unsubstantiated and falsified evidence. You do that, you expect to get pasted. There are plenty of places for speculation - the allegations may be true because otherwise Galloway would not be worth the time, the allegations must be true because Galloway is friends with Zukeirat, who may have abused the oil-for-food programme (is there anytihng firm on that, yet), but in a Senate hearing you want to have a stronger hand, or you might reasonably be accused of frivolity and/or persecutiion.
 
 
Char Aina
11:43 / 18.05.05
If he meant 'you' as in Coleman then he was wrong.
in trying to research that i find nothing to suggest that coleman was oppsed to the war.
i'm obviously not looking in the right places, as i cant find any information pointing theother way either.

help a brother out, lord?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:47 / 18.05.05
Like Jack (if I'm reading him right) I too was most impressed with Mr Galloway's performance... but I still don't trust the bugger.
In this case, though, as has been pointed out, he really is making a total meal of it, which gives me the impression that on this issue, he's not got anything to hide. Yeah, I have my problems with him, but at the moment I'm wiling to suspend hostilities for the time being while this is going on. (Because, like George, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my opinion of him is the most important thing in the world.)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:13 / 18.05.05
If he meant 'you' as in Coleman then he was wrong

I think LHW means that Coleman didn't vote for the war, as he was not a member of the Senate at the time the vote was taken. Coleman was sworn in in January 2003, and the vote was taken in October 2002. I'm pretty sure that he was pro-war, though, given his stance as arch-Bushie and hammer of the UN...
 
 
w1rebaby
18:04 / 18.05.05
ironically has brought more national and international attention to these latest allegations from the Committee by trumpeting about them so much in the media

Don't agree with this. The allegations were trumpeted pretty loudly by the committee already. What's happened here is that he's managed to get himself on TV about them, with some positive stories (unsurprisingly - journalists love theatrics). So people who don't read the news won't notice, people who've glanced at the stories will see things about him kicking butt, and people who watched the testimony will have seen him humiliating Coleman and highlighting the paucity of the committee's case. I don't see how this is any worse than letting things go with dismissive remarks; it seems considerably better to me, given that he's now got US publicity for his defence (any simple dismissal of the remarks would have gotten no US airtime whatsoever so he would still be placed in the same category as Zhirinovsky in the US media, and even outside of the US it would still be "just his word against theirs, the dodgy fucker") and he has pointed out that there is no new evidence against him beyond the word of "senior Iraqi officials" in very dodgy circumstances, and a few documents of vague provenance.

Incidentally, my unscientific survey of factionalised US websites indicates that even the hard right (LGF, freerepublic etc) are either just shouting irrelevant insults - muslim! communist! - or are saying "shit, we got our asses handed to us there, Coleman was a complete pussy". The opinion of commentators on sites like dailykos and Eschaton (leftie for those who are not familiar) seems to be "why can't our politicians say things like that?"

There's a theme running through a lot of comments that the UK system produces better debaters, which I think is true to an extent, but I feel like I should inform people that we do have plenty of our own toadies, lickspittles etc. There are reasons why Galloway's no longer an Labour party member and has been smeared to fuck, and why we have people like David Lammy as ministers.
 
 
lord henry strikes back
07:03 / 19.05.05
Fair point toksik. Sorry, I got the names mixed up. The exchange was actually between Galloway and Senator Carl Levin (not Senator Coleman). Levin was (and still is) opposed to the war, both voting and openly arguing against. Hope that clears it up, my bad.

And yes, Coleman does seem to be solidly pro-war.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:26 / 22.05.05
The Times claims Galloway may be about to undertake a lecture tour of the States. If this is true, how this will affect Galloway's ability to represent his constituents from the other side of the planet...
 
 
Ganesh
10:30 / 22.05.05
Well, it's a two-week lecture course, so in theory it'd affect his engagement with his constituency to the same extent as taking a fortnight's holiday would.
 
 
Not in the Face
15:40 / 23.05.05
Interesting that his evidence is now missing from the Senate Sub-committee's website according to vnunet. Does anyone know if this is true? Certainly the Respect website carries the text of his presentation.

If true this seems to be part of a continued attempt from various soruces to smear him and then having to back down.

This does also affect my perception of him. I still don't like him and think ego plays a huge part in what he does but of course its perfectly possible for someone to be both arrogant and be right in their beliefs.
 
 
w1rebaby
15:49 / 23.05.05
That one seems to have been going around all over the place but from what I understand, his testimony was never up there in the first place, because it wasn't a statement. Other people submitted written statements, which went up. He didn't, he made a speech and answered questions.
 
 
bjacques
14:41 / 24.05.05
When I lived in DC some years ago I got to know the colorless way government types live and speak. Parliamentary debates on BBC are refreshing. If MPs can speak like that and still preserve their self-importance, why can't US Congresscritters and Senators?

Galloway's testimony played extremely well to us frustrated Democrats, because he said all the things we never got to say on the mainstream news, at least not that way. It's one thing to earnestly mutter them on Air America, NPR or leftist blogs, ignored by anyone outside the left mediasphere; it's another when bigger outlets like CNN, Fox, MSNBC and the original Big Three are compelled to carry those remarks because they make such great TV.

George not only refuted the charges but he showed them to be a pointless sideshow, despite Sens. Coleman and Levin trying to get narrow answers and avoid dealing with the larger questions.

That tactic is used by all sides, and that Coleman and his committee used it as well. Ask the wrong questions to draw attention from the right ones; when the respondent refuses to bite, call it evasion and proof that one has won the argument.

The White House and the Right are trying that again with the Koran in the toilet story. Since they caught Newsweek out on that one, they hope it somehow cancels out all the other abuses well-documented elsewhere. Newsweek are supposed to deliver up a few heads in a ritual of submission, as CNN and CBS did, but they're not having it, and it won't stop the riots anyway.

Another example is pointing to a few holes in evolutionary theory as proof that it's all false and therefore creationism is true.

The tactic might work in court in front of a jury, because the judge would probably strike Galloway's remarks not addressing the narrow question. The court record would show only that the narrow question wasn't answered completely or at all. The rest would be ignored. But Senate isn't a court, so the rules are different. And of course there's TV.
 
 
Jack_Rackem
22:11 / 25.05.05
"in trying to research that i find nothing to suggest that coleman was oppsed to the war.
i'm obviously not looking in the right places, as i cant find any information pointing theother way either.

help a brother out, lord?"

Coming from someone who lives in the state that Coleman unfortunatley represents, I can strongly attest that Coleman does nothing but echo the Bush administration's party line. He actually originally elected as mayor of St. Paul as a democrat and then became a Republican in order run for govenor.

Since I'm not really that familiar with Galloway's history, why does he seem to have a bad reputation with the left in Britain. Hell reading this seems to make me like him more.

"Before the hearing began, the independent MP for Bethnal Green and Bow had some scorn to bestow generously upon the pro-war writer Christopher Hitchens. 'You're a drink-soaked former Trotskyist popinjay,' Mr Galloway informed him. 'Your hands are shaking. You badly need another drink,' he added later, ignoring Mr Hitchens's questions and staring intently ahead. 'And you're a drink-soaked ...' Eventually Mr Hitchens gave up. 'You're a real thug, aren't you?' he hissed, stalking away."
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:10 / 26.05.05
He did indeed have a point about Hitchens... fuckin' popinjay.
 
 
w1rebaby
08:29 / 26.05.05
"Popinjay" is an excellent word.

It should be noted that Galloway didn't just waltz up to Hitchens and say all this - Hitchens had been asking him stupid loaded questions beforehand (trying to scare up a link for them, I read a more complete account in the paper).
 
 
pornotaxi
12:26 / 28.05.05
Since I'm not really that familiar with Galloway's history, why does he seem to have a bad reputation with the left in Britain

there's a brief detailed synopsis of his political history here.

the left really isn't the left anymore in the uk. i've met George Galloway on a couple of occasions, and i know the man to have the roots of a working class socialist, a man with genuine priniciples. sure, he is a shameless self-publicist, but as George himself says, why should the devil always have the best spot on the stage.

i recall in a previous thread, some barbeloid called Smoothly described Galloway as an opportunist cunt. opportunist is an interesting term, and perhaps it is only a fellow scot who could truly understand the long noble tradition of a principled scot on the make, as popularised by Alasdair Gray in The Fall of Kelvin Walker. but if i heard Galloway being called a cunt in my company, i'd quite likely have smacked the guy in the puss.
 
  

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