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A contact episode with Loki

 
  

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Less searchable M0rd4nt
07:23 / 18.04.05
Just invoke as carefully and care free ly as a loving and compassionate child and Loki will disappear in a puff of anger and confusion.


I appreciate the advice but somehow I don't think it's going to be that easy.
 
 
eye landed
08:21 / 18.04.05
eris is (not) political, loki is (not) psychological. he is (not) interested in people, so he messes with your life. i dont have much experience with eris, but nonetheless i get the impression she likes to use people as pawns and isnt much interested in their personal lives.

loki is (not) part of a trinity, and functions smoothly within it. odin and thor would be bored without him. always invoke the three in concert and you should be mostly fine. odin vowed never to drink without his brother, so dont try to invoke the one without the other. i think most of odins bad reputation comes from a failure to account for loki. (odin himself is infallably brilliant and benevolent, though he has no patience for whining.)

i think of the three as a travelling companions. odin knows where theyre going, how to get there, and what to expect along the way. thor deals with any outside threats (point and shoot). loki sits and keeps the fire going at night, telling jokes in response to the stories of the other two. seems like hes not very useful, but it would be cold without him.

i learned this from a yos as well (hopefully just ending). i feel much better about myself than when it started. ive learned a lot. im strong. im a bit emotionally reckless, but thats something i think i was looking for. breaking down. loki smashed the berlin wall, loki felled the two towers.

loki is (not) a spider (red and black). he is (not) on your side against nature, who wants to eat you, even when you hate and fear him. i think he has the broadest view of any god. and he thinks so too, so he doesnt trust you with yourself. he only takes from you what you dont need. this is unlike thor, who kills you if you look at him funny, or odin, who will trick your last meal out of your mouth just to see if hes up to the task. in fact, i find loki to be (not) quite compatible with buddhism. he takes a lot of suffering upon himself for what he sees as the greater good. though nobody agrees with him, he is (not) vindicated in the end (by baldurs survival). but he is (not) so selfdepricating that he picks the losing side at ragnarok. even then, he fights heimdall the watchmen who keeps mortals out of heaven.

i keep loki entertained by letting him know when i hate him (by shouting it or thinking it loudly). i can usually hear him laughing. no matter what i do, i cant touch him. he is the thing i cant account for, even if i account for not being able to account for him. always a few steps ahead, and usually willing to let me go ahead with my plans just so he can mock them. confident in everybodys inadequacy, especially his own.

interesting people mentioning lokis gifts. i never encountered this at all. when i met loki, he said 'will you do something for me? it will be unpleasant for you but it needs to be done.' i said yes freely (albeit i was feeling fatalistic) without asking for a reward of any kind. he laughed at me of course. im not sure what i did, or if i have yet to do it, but it was certainly unpleasant. maybe i was l-u-c-k-y. maybe it had something to do with the feeling that i was being loki, not trying to needle him. i dont think he likes to be employed.

fire is a 'being from another dimension' that the human race tamed. its a destructive force (jotun) that we barely manage to keep under control because we find it useful. but one day it will turn on us. it will be our own fault for giving it too much power while trying to keep it caged. the only thing we can trust is that it cant be trusted. loki is (not) a fire god.

the etymology of 'loki' is (not) unknown, though a spider is 'locke'. the origin of the godform is likewise unknown. ancient pagan loki was probably very different from the satan-loki of the edda. as a trickster, loki resembles asian and north american animal figures. no respect for gods, but a faith in providence.

loki led me to apollo in a storm.

fuck off loki.
 
 
eye landed
08:30 / 18.04.05
maybe a helpful chinese analog.

im in the midst of the chinese mythological novel journey to the west. one of the main characters is the king of monkeys aka the great sage equalling heaven.

he is incincible. he caused all kinds of trouble in heaven until the buddha tricked him and imprisoned him under a mountain. after 500 years, he was converted by a boddhisatva and became the disciple of a buddhist monk travelling to fetch the scriptures (holy grail) from the western heaven. the monk keeps him in line with a magic golden circlet which the monkey was tricked into wearing. the monk was taught a verbal spell by the same boddhisatva. when he recites the spell, the circlet tightens around the monkeys head, causing him pain and endangering his life. but the monkey is sincere in his devotion to buddhism, so he mostly behaves anyway.

may this (not) be useful to you.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:59 / 18.04.05
That made me smile. I love Journey to the West.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:17 / 18.04.05
I think you should stop skirting around the issue and do what needs to be done. Loki wants you. You've got business. It needs attending to. That's what magicians do, for better or worse. I think you are a capable enough magician to be able to manage a relationship with Loki. It'll test you, yeah, but this wouldn't be happening if you weren't up to the task.

I think it's quite telling that you say:

I am a very cautious (some would say overcautious) practitioner of tiny kitchen magick. Mostly like working with very safe energies such as Reiki and with gentle compassionate entities like my guides; and I seldom take risks.

I dunno, my experience has been that if you genuinely have the magic working for you and are in the game, as it were, then you can't really hide from certain areas of magic. God knows, I wasn't allowed to. The world contains more mysteries than those of healing, caution and compassion, and you can't just stick to that and exclude everything else. It'll come for you anyway, so best meet it face-to-face with a smile and a beer.

I think you need to make an ally of Loki. This might be really difficult to do - and it might drive you half mad, completely shake up your life, and so on - but if you can pull it off successfully, you'll be an infinitely stronger and more capable magician, and human being, for having been there and made an ally of the fire. Loki's fire is what keeps things moving, it brings change, it's the force in the Eddas that moves the narrative along. Without Loki's fire there is no story. Just a load of beardy guys drinking mead and toasting their ancestors at length, and nobody wants to read 600 pages of that.

I think Loki has a lot of very close parallels with Eshu in Candomble and Legba La Flambeau in Haitian Vodou. Eshu is the Devil. He's what allows evil to happen in the world. But he's also an agent of change and stands at the Crossroads. Legba La Flambeau is the torch that lights the way and the flame that burns through all obstacles. An unstoppable cleansing flame that burns through everything in its path. There's danger in calling on him, but more danger in leaving him uncalled.

He'll come and get you anyway. He already is...

Fire walk with me.

You have to make allies of the wild, volatile, scary ones - as well as the gentle, loving, compassionate ones - because they are a part of the whole picture.

I think all of the advice on this thread about calling on Eris or Kali is just avoiding what needs to be done. You need to have a chat with Mr L and see what's up. I wouldn't go to Odin or Thor and ask them to "keep him in line" cos it's frankly very rude. If a problem occurs, or you're having a rough time in your relationship with Loki, then you can think about speaking to other members of the family and getting them onside as well. If you're going to go for this, then you probably should be speaking to the others - or at least Odin and Thor - but that can come later. The business at hand is about Loki.

You can have a chat and make a nod of respect to him, without obligating yourself into something you might not be prepared to go for just yet. Always good to take it slowly, slowly, slowly with Gods anyway, but especially the volatile, firey ones. Treat it as a long term relationship, strong alliances aren't built overnight. I'm happy to PM you an outline of how I'd go about doing this myself, if you like. There are certain little precautions and a specific form I would use for doing it. I wouldn't just go freeform on it. Not going into details on here though.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:37 / 18.04.05
I appreciate your offer of help and accept.

Wasn't really planning on taking this up with Thor or Odin... just felt a bit too "I'm telling your big bruvver of you!"

Thinking about it, I guess I've had this coming for a while now.
 
 
angel
10:10 / 18.04.05
Mordant, I have added some more stuff at your lj but I thought I would cross post here with this question from the last bit of my post.

One thing that has just popped into my brain is that you have said in the past that one of the ways you work best is Shamanically. One of the times I came across the two big godforms was when I was journeying. Maybe this is a way you can come across Loki without fully invoking him and all that comes with him? It is a way of working with him, but one that feels to me to be a step removed from conjering him up (a bad way of putting it, but I think you can workout what I mean).

What do you think?
 
 
---
10:47 / 18.04.05
Wasn't really planning on taking this up with Thor or Odin... just felt a bit too "I'm telling your big bruvver of you!"

I think that if you do work with Loki and at any stage you feel that things are getting out of hand and you really, really, cannot cope, Odin and/or Thor would be able to bring the calmness and stability back for you. As opposed to telling on him, you'd just be re-balancing yourself with thier help, and I think that this could be done without Loki being offended in any way. Also, knowing that they are at hand to help you could enable you to work with Loki without being anywhere near as afraid.
 
 
---
10:52 / 18.04.05
If you're going to go for this, then you probably should be speaking to the others - or at least Odin and Thor - but that can come later. The business at hand is about Loki.

Can you expand a little on how this would be done? I know that if I had business with the Morrigu and I didn't feel that I had Brigit or Danu to help me out I'd be pretty terrified. (I'm kind of scanning this for future tips aswell, even though I maybe shouldn't be.)
 
 
illmatic
10:52 / 18.04.05
Hey Mordant, I don't know much about this subject area but I'd say Look at the Edda struck me as particuarly relevant. I'd be interested myself in hearing about how Loki was worshipped - if indeed he was "worshipped" in the sense we normally use it - traditionally, in the Norse cultures. How was he conceived of? How did his priests approach him? You might find some clues there that will shape your own approach and aid communication. Anyone else who can share information on this, jump in.

As I often do, I'd check my feelings out with a divination system before going ahead. Happy to do this for you if you want to PM me.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:05 / 18.04.05
I have been cracking the PDFs, Lucky Liquid. The fact is, Loki wasn't worshipped as such; ritual workings involving Loki are a recent development (Last 30, 40 years, I think?). Therefore there's no tradition to work from directly, although it is possible to derive a meaningful working from general principles and from writings about Loki.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
11:19 / 18.04.05
Some popular misconceptions regarding Loki summarised here
 
 
grant
14:50 / 18.04.05
That link kicks *ass*. Dude!: Icelandic name for the star Sirius being Lokabrenna ('Loki's brand') -- now there's a web of associations to conjure with!
 
 
Sekhmet
16:34 / 18.04.05
Thanks for posting that link, trouser, it's great. Food for thought at the very least.
 
 
Unconditional Love
16:47 / 18.04.05
a students essay on loki here.

a site for discussion of loki

this site has the best pics

an in t resting article
 
 
penitentvandal
08:33 / 19.04.05
I had cardboard runes, too...though I use tarot more these days, when I divine. Deeper, richer, more complex (in my misguided opinion).

So I don't know a lot about runes, but when you mentioned hagalaz in your list of runes, I remembered I'd recently been rereading 'Rebels and Devils' and there is an interview with Ian Read (former and forallIknow current editor of Chaos International, and a magician who works a lot with Norse currents) where he mentions hagalaz. He says that

'...you need complete destruction before you get new growth. That's perhaps the mystery of Hagalaz, the rune of hail.'

So there you go. Dunno if that changes anything - just thought I'd throw it in there to add to your ideas pile. Tower experience, anyone?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:02 / 19.04.05
See, that would be scary if I had anything much left to destroy. (Famous last words.) Nah, things aren't bad really but I don't have many of the things that tend to get fucked up in Tower crashes, like a career or whatever.

I'm really touched by how much help and support I've had from people with this--you guys have been fantastic.

I'm planning a ritual for tonight, just to speak with Loki and maybe find out what He wants. I'm nervous, obviously. I painted an image of Loki to use on my altar last night, which was an experience in itself: I don't recall much after a certain point but there were 3 empty tuna cans on the living room floor this morning.
 
 
charrellz
09:46 / 19.04.05
Just be careful and keep track of the conversation. You don't want him slipping anything past you. Remember that he does have honor, it just falls to you to make him stick to it.

Good luck, I hope it all works out for the best for you.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
01:48 / 20.04.05
Half past four in the morning.

I've just woken up. In different clothes from what I put on for the ritual; I don't remember changing. The clothes I was wearing were on the floor and wet. I have no idea why they were wet, they don't smell of anything. Did I do anything stupid? If I said anything mean/stupid, I'm really sorry. Seriously, why is this floor wet? And with water? If it was beer or urine, that I could understand.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
01:49 / 20.04.05
No but seriously, fuck.
 
 
Sekhmet
03:37 / 20.04.05
And there's no one else about to tell you what you've been doing, of course. The hazards of flying solo...

How do you feel?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
04:16 / 20.04.05
How do I feel? "A series of nerve impulses send information to my brain."

Feel..? Like everything I knew was wrong. Sick. Jangly. Heart pounding. Crowded in my head. The bits of me I expected to hurt, don't; various other random bits of me, inexplicably, do.

I want to be the engineer again. This is irksome.
 
 
Sekhmet
04:31 / 20.04.05
Erm. Are blackout periods unusual for you? When you're not having a seizure, that would be, I guess. (Forgive my ignorance; I'm not terribly familiar with the symptoms that accompany epilepsy.)

Maybe next time you should set up a camcorder...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
05:30 / 20.04.05
Werrll, blackout periods are something I'm very familiar with as an epo. A proper grand mal seizure takes my memory completely offline. However, I still know pretty much what happened during the fit--id est, I lay on the bed/floor/pavement, twitched, thrashed, foamed at the mouth, bit my tongue, quite possibly pissed myself, ect. Because, well, fit. This is what happens. You learn to deal.

Blackout periods where I've been walking around and doing stuff that I totally don't remember have happened to me; however, they've always involved recreational pharmaceuticals of some description. Barring the odd J, I have been pretty much off the funny stuff for a couple of years now so this is unusual.
 
 
Sekhmet
05:35 / 20.04.05
I assume it'd be hard to bathe, swim, or shower whilst seizing. Much less change clothes after...

Totally out of my depth. Glad you're okay, though (as in not seriously physically injured, and fairly coherent).
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
05:38 / 20.04.05
I have never been more OK in my life.

Or less.

We shall see.
 
 
Sekhmet
05:51 / 20.04.05
The tone of that post is reminding me strongly of a Lokian friend of mine...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
10:33 / 20.04.05
Just be careful and keep track of the conversation. You don't want him slipping anything past you.

This sentence seems quite funny now.
 
 
grant
14:26 / 20.04.05
Pretty much at random (googling "Loki," "Edda," "clothed"), I wound up on this Edda page, reading the following rather weird story:

"Now when the winter drew nigh unto its end, the building of the citadel was far advanced; and it was so high and strong that it could not be taken. When it lacked three days of summer, the work had almost reached the gate of the stronghold. Then the gods sat down in their judgment seats, and sought means of evasion, and asked one another who had advised giving Freyja into Jötunheim, or so destroying the air and the heaven as to take thence the sun and the moon and give them to the giants. The gods agreed that he must have counselled this who is wont to give evil advice, Loki Laufeyarson, and they declared
him deserving of an ill death, if he could not hit upon a way of losing the wright his wages; and they threatened Loki with violence. But when he became frightened, then he swore oaths, that he would so contrive that the wright should lose his wages, cost him what it might.

"That same evening, when the wright drove out after stone with the stallion Svadilfari, a mare bounded forth from a certain wood and whinnied to him. The stallion, perceiving what manner of horse this was, straightway became frantic, and snapped the traces asunder, and leaped over to the mare, and she away to the wood, and the wright after, striving to seize the stallion. These horses ran all night, and the wright stopped there that night; and afterward, at day, the work was not done as it had been before. When the wright saw that the work could not be brought to an end, he fell into giant's fury. Now that the Æsir
saw surely that the hill-giant was come thither, they did not regard their oaths reverently, but called on Thor, who came as quickly. And straightway the hammer Mjöllnir was raised aloft; he paid the wright's wage, and not with the sun and the moon. Nay, he even denied him dwelling in Jötunheim, and struck but the one first blow, so that his skull was burst into small crumbs, and sent him down bellow under Niflhel. But Loki had such dealings with Svadilfari, that somewhat later he gave birth to a foal, which was gray and had eight feet; and this horse is the best among gods and men.


I have no way of knowing if this is relevant.

Horse of Loki (vs. the Vodun kind of horse)? Dunno.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:35 / 20.04.05
It's all relevant.

Yeah, the famous horse story: he gets shit about that from the other gods. There's also a mention of him spending eight years (I think) in the underworld and having 3 kids, but we don't know what happened to them...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:38 / 20.04.05
The horse, of course, is the one that Odin rides. He uses it to travel to the underworld...

"Don't say I never done nuffink for ya."
 
 
grant
14:46 / 20.04.05
Weird, I was just about to post a link to that, too... the second thing I read.

It's stanza 23 over here, in the Lokasenna. Bunch of insults going back and forth, most of which seem to do with reproduction & fidelity.

Apparently, telling a man he'd given birth was a big insult, but it didn't work on Loki because he actually had.
 
 
grant
14:48 / 20.04.05
All of a sudden, I'm picturing Loki as Johnny Rotten.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:53 / 20.04.05
I've heard an interesting interpretation somewhere of Odin's 'eight legged horse' as being a coffin with four men to carry it. Parallels with the Vodon concept of 'horse' are interesting too, I think, possibly with particular reference to the rune Raidho as it appeared in Mordant's initial vision...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:58 / 20.04.05
See, suddenly my period cramps from HELL make sense.
 
  

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