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A contact episode with Loki

 
  

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Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:09 / 17.04.05
I apologise in advance for the fact that this is going to be a bit incoherent, even for me.

First, a little backstory. In my early twenties, many years ago now, I performed an ill-advised, half-baked and very drunken blot in the general direction of Loki. (I can hear some of you wincing.) This was extremely successful, resulting as it did in my life turning to utter crap for some time--relationship breakdown, attempted murder, almost getting sectioned, hallucinatons; you know, pretty much what one would expect.

It must also be mentioned that I'm epileptic. (The onset of my full-blown grand mal epilepsy was another part of the life-turning-to-crap period, incidentally.) Before a grand mal fit, I go though an aura stage which generally involves a lot of perceptual distortion. Strong synasthesic experiences, olfactory, visual and auditory hallucintions, that sort of thing.

This year I've been re-evaluating many areas of my magickal practice and was tentatively considering the idea of working with Loki again. I've got a much better idea of what I'm doing these days and am better prepared for change and upheaval. I had thought of performing a blot this April the 1st just gone but decided to let discretion be the better part of valour for another year.

Loki, however, was having none of this. Today I went into the aura stage of a seizure and he decided to make it all about him.

I was having a lie down when it started. The first I knew of his presence was a voice saying very clearly, right next to my ear: "Loki." I'm used ot this sort of thing by now so I paid it no mind but then... this is hard to describe. It was as if all the sounds around me--shouting neighbours, a washing machine in another flat, traffic outside in the street, the ticking of my alarm clock--were voices, chanting in unison "Loki! Loki! Loki!"

I got up from the bed and went to the computer room. I posted some fairly hopeless drivel to my Lj on the subject, then made some unsuccessful attempts to block out what was going on by looking at unrelated websites. This didn't work. He just got clearer and clearer.

The most disconcerting aspect was a strong sense of his presence behind my right shoulder. Although I couldn't see anyone when I turned round, I just KNEW there was a person standing behind me. Every so often I got a glimpse of his clothes--dark reddish brown woven cloth. I could smell him sometimes too: wool clothes, male sweat, fire. He was talking to me but I didn't understand him, so he switched from words to pictures. I could sort of hear the pictures. I got an image of my teenage bedroom, my first home-made deck of cardboard runes, and the number 14.

The harder I tried to block out the experience, the louder he got, until he was shouting almost angrily. Not mean; more urgent, like you'd shout at a friend if you found them passed out drunk at a party. So I gave up. Went and got my lab book and listened, after which he calmed down and the pictures got quieter. I saw a wooded glade, then a cloak of fine green wool. I saw my own hands painting. I saw silver rings and a gold brooch, jewelled knives and other finely worked objects. I felt that these items were magickal and that I had made them or been involved in their creation in some way. (I love to make jewellery and regret that my skill in this regard is not greater.) I saw laughing people, fire, a great hall full of smoke and angry figures. I saw a white horse, and two black horses that reared up. All these things I saw in my mind's eye, while before my physical eye firey runes appeared, whirling by in a stream too fast to seperate. (I was able to note down a few but I don't recognise all of them.)

After a while I went to lie down again in the dark--I found the visual images I was getting and the real world impossible to process together. I don't remember all that I saw. Fire, a mask, an eye-shaped pendant of gold. A cunning-looking male face.

I suffered two seizures, which I assume to have been mild and of short duration since I am not suffering any severe after effects. When I came to myself, the glowing runes were gone and so was Loki.

The strongest message that came through is that I've had a connection with this godform since well before my crappy little blot and the Year of Demented Suckitude that followed. Apparently he has had his eye on me since I was 14 and can't understand why I keep refusing his "gifts." This was unexpected, to say the least. Obviously I had felt drawn to Loki at one time or I wouldn't have tried to work with him but I can't say I'm the sort of person who one usually finds working with this sort of godform.

Well, discuss, I guess. Let's hear about other people's experiences with Loki. It would also be interesting to hear about other godforms turning up out of the blue. (I would also appreciate any advice people might have to give.)
 
 
Sekhmet
15:34 / 17.04.05
Wow.

What were the runes that you managed to note down? Did you get any meaning out of them?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:48 / 17.04.05
(Disclaimer: My runecraft is shaky as hell, largely because I've been mostly avoiding using runes for the best part of 10 years. I had to go and look them up at this site.)

I saw loads of runesbut I could only pick out the following: Wunjo, Mannaz, Raidho, Hagalaz, Ansuz, Thurisaz and Ingwaz.
 
 
Sekhmet
16:09 / 17.04.05
Did you get the impression that they were forming words?

an eye-shaped pendant of gold.

Hmm. I had a dream of Loki a while back in which his emblem was a triangle of gold with six eyes on it. Made no sense to me. Considering the same dream seemed to confound Sif with Venus and made her some sort of sea-goddess, I didn't think much of it.

There do seem to be some people who can forge a good working relationship with Loki, but by all accounts it's pretty hazardous to one's health and sanity...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:11 / 17.04.05
Yeah, I felt that they were spelling out words (or communiating a message in some other way) but they went by too fast.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
16:26 / 17.04.05
It is worth noting that right at the end of that crappy year, right when I was at the absolute and utter end of my rope and could take nothing more, I met my partner.
 
 
Grimlockus_Prime
18:13 / 17.04.05
Whoa... I dont know what to say... Or yes i do.
Keep away from Loki. Ok, so this is just my opinnion. But i think he is far too untrustworthy.

I have meddled with runes and the nordic gods for allmost all my life. Sometimes purely in an academic way. Sometimes pouring beer over a sword in the forest. And not in my weirdest dreams would i team up with that trickster.

I would not consider him Evil. Maybe just chaotic. The norse pantheon is mostly about order against chaos. And in Ragnarok, Loki is teaming up with chaos.
Neither is chaos evil. Its just the opposite side of the coin. They are both needed(in a way) to create the world that rises after Ragnarok. i would maybe compare Loki to a Djinni. If you wish, for example, money. You might get it, but through, say, your parents die, and leave a huge herritage to you.

I myself have only had some brief contact with Tyr. And that was allso in a situation where i was too flabbergasted to realy concentrate on who i was meeting. The problem with me might allso be, that though i would want to believe in the viking gods, i find myself uncapable of it most of the time.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:40 / 17.04.05
I was keeping away from Loki. I've kept away from Loki for like 10 years. I've barely touched the runes in that time, I haven't worked with any of the other guys in that pantheon just in case. Hence my "WTFpwned!?" reaction to this latest development.
 
 
Papess
18:50 / 17.04.05
Hmm, Year of Suckitude in relation to Loki sounds all too familiar. You haven't accepted any of his gifts, I suppose? Please don't. That bit of Loki-style ego-seduction is never without strings attached. He probably wants something from you and being rather imposing, remember..."Loki is a pushy git"? Well, he is certainly being imposing for an entity who is trying to honour you with all these gifts. One has to wonder why, but do you really want him to tango through your life again? If you do, I can think of taking a precautions. One: never take the gifts he offers. If you want them refuse them, then to steal them from him. This way he has no claim to you...you don't owe him. Although there may still be reprecussions. Anyway, honour amongst theives, and such. Two: Set up boundries that are indesputable, even to him. They should be based on his own code or law, which is capricious enough, but will still be helpful. Three: Remember that Loki will break any law if he is able to do it with little or no reprecussions, so make him suffer if he does get out of line. It's okay, he likes it.

I think you can handle that, hmm? Now, guess what he actually wants Mordant.
 
 
Grimlockus_Prime
18:51 / 17.04.05
Have you worked with any other godform from another pantheon that resembles Loki? That might have kept him interrested.
 
 
Papess
18:53 / 17.04.05
If I may offer an interrpretation:

I think that the chaos in your life at the moment, is deperately trying to get you to sort it out.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:02 / 17.04.05
Nope. General chaos, yes, indubitably but I've always been a bit careful around trickster gods since the Loki thing.

Always did kind of feel like I'd left a door open somewhere, even after the bad stuff receded. Especially lately--Loki-related imagery and stuff has been popping up in all kinds of places. That's why I was planning another ritual, a sort of "Right, okay, here's your flagon of ale and your seat at the banquet sort of thing, now stop bugging me," deal.
 
 
Papess
19:08 / 17.04.05
Well, it seems that the chaos is more specifically in your head, from reading your current postings and the specific nature of this encounter. What about the rest of my first post?
 
 
Papess
19:11 / 17.04.05
Also Mordant, I am certainly not meaning to trivialize your situation by saying that it's "in your head".I apologize if it came out that way.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:13 / 17.04.05
And I have no clue what this godform would want from me. Like I say, I'm not the kind of person who'd normally work with him. Loki fans tend to fall into one of two camps: the Woo look at me I'm as MaAaAd as a fish! type, and the Bwahaha, I'm evil and also a Viking! and I'm worshipping, like, the Viking SATAN!!. In contrast, I am a very cautious (some would say overcautious) practitioner of tiny kitchen magick. Mostly like working with very safe energies such as Reiki and with gentle compassionate entities like my guides; and I seldom take risks.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:16 / 17.04.05
Sorry, cross-posted there... I am trying to sort out the odd stuff that's going on with my epilepsy lately but there's really very little I can do at the moment. I've gone into this elsewhere. What I am doing is using my healing stuff, talking to my guides, meditating more and generally trying to regain focus. With limited success, it would seem.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:20 / 17.04.05
Also, I got the impression that the "gifts" referred to actually were all the insane shit that happened after that working (and possibly even the petit mal perceptual fubarity as well.)

Loki is a dick.
 
 
Papess
19:22 / 17.04.05
That seems like an excellent way to placate Loki, Mordant.
It is almost like stabilizing Loki's influence by reinforcing Balder-like qualities and actions. It should put Loki in his place.
 
 
Papess
19:30 / 17.04.05
Oh, uh...stay away from mistletoe!
 
 
Papess
19:44 / 17.04.05
Okay that is only half good advice. I think that it may only serve to balance Loki when he gets out of hand.

I can't help but draw some lines between Loki and "pushy submissives" that you have mentioned before, as well. Pushy Loki, pushy subs..I don't know, but I think that Loki is really looking to be put in line by you.
 
 
Sekhmet
21:07 / 17.04.05
Loki fans tend to fall into one of two camps: the Woo look at me I'm as MaAaAd as a fish! type, and the Bwahaha, I'm evil and also a Viking! and I'm worshipping, like, the Viking SATAN!!

To be fair, there are more serious practicioners who honor Loki either as the agent of chaos and change, or of fire, or simply for his rather important place in the Norse pantheon. There's a reason he's such a prominent figure in the myths; he's a major agent of change. He is capricious, and not necessarily to be trusted, but do remember that it is through his wiles that the gods attained many of their greatest treasures, such as Thor's hammer and Freya's necklace. In many cases his tricks were key in giving the gods the advantage over their enemies. Loki has the ability to work outside of or around the rules, so he can accomplish things the more lawful types can't. He was a close companion of Odin and of Thor on their adventures, because even though he might cause a lot of trouble, there was no one better to have around in a tight spot. He solved as many problems as he caused (albeit often under threat of his life). He has honor, of a sort - but deals with him would need to be watertight as hell.

And y'know, having Loki as an ally might be dangerous, but fuck - I'd far rather not have him as an enemy.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:18 / 17.04.05
Yeah, understand that... I know there are serious types out there who have a positive and workable relationship with this godform (I just don't meet very many). I mean, my original working was based on the agent-of-change aspect. At the time I felt as if my life was stagnating and I needed to bring in some powerful force for change. (Well, it sort of worked.)

Anyway, I'm cracking the sagas and looking for examples of people who've worked with Loki in a positive way.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:46 / 17.04.05
I'm pondering the wisdom (or otherwise) of sitting down with my lab book and trying to have a quiet chat over a beer, like I do with my guides or my ancestors. Maybe that would help.

Weird how powerful the encounter was, though. Sure, I've had godforms manifest before but not often in that intense, in-yr-face way. When I have had a manifestation like that it's usually been after shedloads of work with the god in question over a period of time, not some random out of the blue thing.
 
 
Sekhmet
21:53 / 17.04.05
You might find this site interesting/useful:
Winterscapes-Uppsala

I'm actually quite glad this suject came up. Every time anyone mentions Loki (or Kali, or any number of other dieties) people start issuing dire warnings about how you NEVEREVEREVER want to work with so-and-so because ze is evil and untrustworthy, or so powerful ze will FRY yr BRAINS. I think it's worth noting that there are very few examples in ancient or modern myth of an entity that is simply the personification of E-vull. Most of these gods are far more complex than that. Loki certainly is.

Your "year of suckitude" which culminated in finding your partner sounds sort of like his M.O. to me. He has a way of starting a chain of events that leads through suffering, destruction and conflict along the way to good fortune. Did the year in question change your life significantly? Was it all for the worse?

Remember that while he gave rise to the Fenris wolf, the Midgard serpent and Hel, Sleipnir, Odin's eight-legged steed, is also his offspring. Remember that he got the dwarves to create many of the gods' greatest treasures. Remember that while he was responsible for the death of Baldr, it is precisely for this reason that Baldr will be sheltered in the underworld during Ragnarok and thus "survive" it. According to some accounts he is Odin's blood brother. Loki is a mixed bag. There is the glint of gold in there amongst the scorpions and horseshit. Is it real gold? Do you dare to reach your hand in and find out?

I'm not saying a relationship with Loki should be entered into lightly or without great caution - but what god should you deal with lightly? Recognize that you are dealing with a being of power. Just don't write it off until you've thoroughly explored the subject and can make an informed decision.

(*pauses and scratches head*)

Am I saying this?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:01 / 17.04.05
Hey, I was just reading that website! *grin*

Yeah... I have been reflecting and re-evaluating the Y.o.S. True, some horrendous stuff happened to me which affected me very much and messed me up for a long time afterwards. Still does, a bit. But if I had the choice to go back, have all the bad stuff not happen but also not meet my boyfriend--Nah. No way. I'd go through it all again a dozen times over.
 
 
Papess
22:23 / 17.04.05
Every time anyone mentions Loki (or Kali, or any number of other dieties) people start issuing dire warnings about how you NEVEREVEREVER want to work with so-and-so because ze is evil and untrustworthy...

And quite by accident...or trickery, I ended up working with both Loki, and Kali at the same time. That is what happens when there is poor communication.
 
 
Sekhmet
22:30 / 17.04.05
I just noticed that Loki and Kali are near-anagrams. Funny, that.

By the way, dear Mordant, I have never worked with Loki. I have occasionally included him in a libation, and I've had lots of dreams involving him, but no direct contact. I'm quite sure I would have the same holyshit misgivings if something like that happened to me. Well, probably moreso, because I'm not epileptic.

Do let us know what happens; this is quite fascinating.
 
 
---
22:40 / 17.04.05
Hi there,

Mordant that sounds like powerful and hectic stuff. All I can add in the way of possible advice is that you maybe try getting in touch with Thor, or even Odin, and try asking them for help and guidance with this.

I'm saying this because I've had some pretty crazy encounters with who I've thought to be the Morrigu, and the only way I've been able to handle them was by working even more with Brigit, or asking for her guidance more, and it's worked as a balance to the opposite type of energy of the Morrigu, who I'd no way have been able to handle on my own.

If Loki is the chaos and the disorder, then maybe it would be helpful to re-balance the scales and get in touch with the opposite force. By doing that you could find a way of working with Loki in a lot safer, better, and more secure way aswell.

I'm in no way clued up on this, but I'm thinking that working with a Godform that powerful would require a balancing energy to be on the safe side, and maybe to make it work properly.

Whatever you end up doing, good luck, and I hope it works out for you.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:07 / 17.04.05
One incident from the Y. o. S. frankly shits me up about the idea of working with Loki again. It happened quite a long time after the ritual but somehow the two have always been connected in my mind.

I was experimenting with hypnosis, allowing an individual who I'll call A. to put me into trance states. One night, he put me under and when I came round A. was huddled in one corner in a state of perfect terror and I was standing over him. According to him, upon going into deep trance I'd completely lost it. I'd attacked him physically, all the while yelling at him in a language he didn't understand. Now, A. had a tendancy to exaggerate stuff and the incident involved a lot of alcohol. It scared the hell out of me, though. I am opposed to violence and I was horrified by what had happened. I've never let anyone else put me in a trance since.
 
 
charrellz
23:43 / 17.04.05
He was a close companion of Odin and of Thor on their adventures

I think they also kept him around so it would be easier to watch him.

I like Xyu's idea. Perhaps you should ask Odin to keep his eye on Loki for you?

I'm fresh out of ideas here, but it's all quite fascinating; thanks for sharing it with us.
 
 
grant
00:57 / 18.04.05
Hmm. I find it interesting that you should mention Loki -- oo, scary -- and then talk about your boyfriend. Since the first positive association I'd have with Loki is that while he gets stuck with the venom on the forehead (like Prometheus with the vultures... something to think about), he's got a love who's willing to sit there beside him and catch the stuff in her bowl. If he can inspire that kind of devotion, he can't be all bad, can he?

How would Loki map over Eris, btw? People don't seem to be nearly as leery of her, for whatever reason.
 
 
---
01:34 / 18.04.05
How would Loki map over Eris, btw? People don't seem to be nearly as leery of her, for whatever reason.

Probably because of the popularity of Discordianism and the image that she has from that.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
02:06 / 18.04.05
People don't seem to be nearly as leery of her [Eris]

I am. I've never worked with Eris. I read about big scary Greek strife Eris before I heard of fluffy Discordian colouring-book Eris. I was always concerned that if I tried to chum up to colouring-book Eris, Greek strife Eris would jump out from under the rainbow clown wig with a cry of "PSYCH!"

Loki actually seems less disturbing to me. At least he doesn't traditionally trash your life just because he's noticed you were there.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
05:27 / 18.04.05
Apparently he has had his eye on me since I was 14 and can't understand why I keep refusing his "gifts."

Hmm. At the risk of making even more of a fool of myself than I usually do in this forum, I *think* I had a similar kind of experience-type thingy with Kali a while ago now. As someone who doesn't really 'believe,' I'm sort of blushing as I type this, but if that's a given, the situation was; that I'd just finished law school, could see a particular way of life unfolding in front of me, was a bit pissed off about that - I wanted to be James Joyce, not a bleeding solicitor - so me and a couple of friends went off to India with the stated intent of going to lots of really good parties, and just generally having a fab time ( none of this fucking about with 'finding oneself' in a temple or anything - people you'd meet would discuss that subject, but we'd just laugh, us guys, like broken typewriters, like how those would sound. )

A week or so in to this, er, oddyssey, we were sitting about on a beach in Goa ( this was before it was fashionable, I have to stress, ) with a bunch of strange and alarming German hippies, having ingested very strong acid, and that's when it happened, when Kali was manifest. There's a danger that this seems like I'm taking the piss - I'm not, nor did teh experience feel like the usual LSD thing, with which by that point I was already fairly familiar, you kind of know that when the trees appear to be laughing at you, they aren't *really,* and so forth, and it wasn't really like that. Ten or so years later, I can still remember this in perfect detail. There was a strong sense of god-form contact, the whys and wherefores of which I won't bore you with. It was made clear, basically, that me and my friends were Kali's boys.

After that, predictably enough, there was three or so months of total chaos, you'd get up in the morning knowing, for a fact, that something odd was bound to happen that day, I'll never forget the ketamine incident in Patha Ganj for example, but, and here's the thing - If I'd written all that down just as it happened, in a half-decent way, I'd be a name author by now, as was always the plan.

All of which is by way of saying that the gifts on offer by Loki, or related, aren't necessarily always to be sniffed at, IMVHO
 
 
Pappa Cass
06:44 / 18.04.05
I am. I've never worked with Eris. I read about big scary Greek strife Eris before I heard of fluffy Discordian colouring-book Eris. I was always concerned that if I tried to chum up to colouring-book Eris, Greek strife Eris would jump out from under the rainbow clown wig with a cry of "PSYCH!"

That could happen. It depends on how you summon her.

If you think of Strife, Agony, Misery, and all that, then yes, she'll eat you.

However, if you use one of the Sacred Songs of The Daoist Animal Sage*, then she will come in a form suitable for that.

The thing about Loki, and I do have a smidge of experience with him, is that he is part of a mindset in which chaos is viewed as entropy and/or a necessary evil. Look at the Eddas and you'll see how through much of them he is like a horrible force that is made useful in spite of himself. If you've ever wondered where the idea of children as "mini adults" and the idea of play as frivolity comes from, look no further.

Yes, you could, if you so chose, ask for help within the Norse patheon. I'm sure Odin or Thor would love to help you out(but I'd recommend Thor, Freyr, or Freya above Odin, not because he's not effective, but Odin would be almost like using chemo to deal with cancer, effective, but the cure might be worse than the sickness). And it would probibly resolve the immediate issue.

But, you would still have that deity paradigm in which play is seen as frivolity and looked down upon(again, read the Eddas on this one, don't take my word for it).

However, there could be another way.

One of the things that make the contemporary Eris interesting is that she represents an idea of chaos which, though it can be pretty sucky, sometimes isn't(and, I would say, mostly it isn't, or doesn't have to be). Chaos as finding a five dollar bill on your way to the bus, or slipping on a banana peel so that you miss being hit by a piano. Chaos as the twinkle in the eye of a child, as cheezy humour, as random conversations in a diner at 4AM.

It's said that Kali, underneath her necklace of skulls, has a necklace of garlands. The downside is that you have to make it through the skulls to get to the garlands.

So, in short, Eris could be of some help, or at least the paradigm she currently represents. Just invoke as carefully and care free ly as a loving and compassionate child and Loki will disappear in a puff of anger and confusion.

Now wouldn't that be a funny kettle of veggie chik'n n dumplins?

Pappa Cass
has been and off and on Discordian Knight(Sir Pappa Cass, but PC, or Cass, or Cassius if you want to be formal is jes fine) since he was 16.

*Fine example of a chant via that fine Daoist Animal Sage

How sweet to be a Cloud
Floating in the Blue!
Every little cloud
Always sings aloud.
How sweet to be a Cloud
Floating in the Blue!
It makes him very proud
To be a little cloud.
 
  

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