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I don't think there's an escape from mankind's existential-nihilist fix

 
  

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--
01:25 / 16.04.05
Yeah, you're right, Stoat. Maybe I just need a vacation from this place for awhile. That worked for me awhile back when I was obsessed with my social position on some other messageboard... Staying away from it for awhile helped me to realize that, in the long run, I could live without it. Though there's way more interesting topics around here then there were on that other board I used to frequent. I still go there now, but it doesn't have the same magic anymore... Barbelith replaced it.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
01:33 / 16.04.05
s.h.e.r.m.a.n - I'm not totally sure what point you were trying to make there, chief, but I'd consider this possibility, were I you - That nobody presently walking the face of the earth gives a rats ass what you think either way, really.

Not that I mean that as a criticism as such - Simply, it's a bit tired.

Syph, Flaubert said something along the lines of 'live a bourgeouis life so your art can be dissolute' - though that's a definite misquote, it still holds true.

Basically, get your hair cut, throw all the Kenneth Grant suff on the fire if it's not working out anyway, get rid of all those Sisters albums, head up town and enjoy yourself, for Heaven's sakes - Immerse yourself in what seems like 'mundanity,' and all the things you'd seem to despise and then write about it, and if none of that works out, well then ok, you're fucked, but you'll have at least proved yourself right.

( I can't stress the haircut thing enough - you're not, I hope, still, er, rocking 'the Sandman' look, are you ? )

Good luck !
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:36 / 16.04.05
Yes. Shed the GOTH.
 
 
--
02:46 / 16.04.05
Heh, actually, my hair is quite short, and I'd hardly call myself goth, at least not in the cultural sense, though I guess I was a goth in college. And I did once own a Sisters album, but it always put me to sleep so I mailed it to a British friend who was obsessed with them. I'll stick with Siouxsie Sioux, thank you very much. As for Kenneth Grant, I don't think you're really supposed to view his books as practical magic: I appreciate them more for their literary value and in that manner, they inspire me.

If anything, I'm not a stranger to the mundane, I mean, I work at Barnes & Noble, and they play the most banal elevator muzak everyday, y'know. If anything my life needs less of the mundane.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
03:35 / 16.04.05
The Temple's problem is there are too many egos and it's a total clique of the cool kids and the dorks or something. I mean, some innocent newbie could just mention an interest in, I dunno, Bertiaux or something and sudddenly they all become Peanuts adults: OH LOOK ANOTHER NEWBIE HOW CUTE WUH WAH WUH WAH WUH WAH. It's not very conductive to stimulating conversation.

Sorry but I disagree. I think you hear "Penuts adults" because that't what you want to hear. I think you see a "total clique of the cool kids" (and by the way, could we get some new metaphores around here? This high school thing is getting terribly threadbare) because that's what you want to see. A big part of your personal narrative seems to be how bullied and put-upon you are and how heartless the world is. However, I don't really see you making much of an effort to process the impact of the things you say on other people.

For example, I had--and still have--a lot of sympathy for you. (I can see a lot of myself in you sometimes.) But you are rapidly losing that sympathy, man. In fact, you're starting to make me angry.
 
 
--
03:58 / 16.04.05
I'm simply stating my viewpoint as I see it. Perhaps it's flawed, but would you rather I be dishonest?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
04:07 / 16.04.05




If you manna make it,



You gotta fake it.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
04:10 / 16.04.05
And I'm simply stating mine.
 
 
--
04:34 / 16.04.05
Okay then. Yeah, now you can see why this thread should have been locked awhile ago. It's just generating bad vibes all around, and if anyone wants to address me further I suggest they contact me in private, I'm through responding to this and just adding fuel to the fire. Too much negativity here.
 
 
Loomis
08:13 / 19.04.05
What, nobody got my Per Gessel joke? FUCK YOU ALL.

I only just got to this point in the thread this morning and I chuckled audibly in the office. Am still in shock however at actually reading the lyrics to this song. I never quite realised the horror.

And while we're on the subject, I'd like to test a theory I've had for a while. Am I the only one who thinks Roxette morphed into Savage Garden? Have you ever seen them in the same place?
 
 
Papess
08:23 / 19.04.05
Am I the only one who thinks Roxette morphed into Savage Garden?

No.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:00 / 19.04.05
It's uncanny, but could Savage Garden have created something as nuanced as "The Look"?
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
10:59 / 19.04.05
Tasty like a raindrop.

Got a ticket to a world where we belong.

The answer's in the question.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:51 / 19.04.05
The Temple's problem is there are too many egos and it's a total clique of the cool kids and the dorks or something.

From where I'm sitting the Temple is struggling to stay alive because of the efforts of an ever dwindling number of decent contributors who seem to be dropping away like flies. I'm bored to tears with it myself, and only really post there when I'm very bored at work these days. Somebody post something interesting!

If there is a division in the Temple, then that division is between the people who have some level of experience in what they are writing about and can generate interesting and lively debate, and the people who don't and can't. If that seems elitist then that's just tough shit. I'm certainly not going to curb my disdain for hackneyed, reheated, unimaginative thinking about magic simply to massage your monstrous ego. There are plenty of forums about magic on the internet where you will no doubt be patted on the head for knowing who Kenneth Grant and Peter Sotos are. I suggest you spend more time there.

Frankly I think a lot of my responses there were well thought-out and intellectually satisfying

Not everyone shares your intellect and aesthetics. Not everyone is going to agree with you or pander to you. Get a helmet.

but my thinking doesn't follow the company line so I'm villanized

What exactly is the company line? Please elaborate on this further.

some people there apparently find it incomprehensible that one can divulge powerful personal meanings from the Matrix movies...

Not incomprehensible, just fuckwitted.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:29 / 19.04.05
To be fair, after the first Matrix movie I was possessed by a powerful, life-changing desire to Kung Fu the absolute crap out of everybody I saw, while hanging upside down from a helicopter. A really big coat was also very important.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
14:38 / 19.04.05
Interesting. I find the music of Marilyn Manson has a similar, though more heavy-artillery / automatic weapon effect on me. Am I normal?
 
 
electric monk
15:37 / 19.04.05
Am I normal?

Hard to say. D'you find yourself saying things like, "There is no spoon," or "Whoa"?
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
15:41 / 19.04.05
Dude! Like, no way!
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:52 / 19.04.05
Sypha

Will it help to know I've been reading your Live Journal?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:04 / 19.04.05
I take great offence. Savage Garden are a terrible band and should have a better understanding of the English language since they're Australian and not Swedish. You're burning and I'm only adding lighter fluid to the fire.
 
 
---
20:07 / 19.04.05
Not everyone shares your intellect and aesthetics.

That was one thing that I learned, (after muchos confusio) and it helped a lot. It didn't turn me into a brilliant poster or anything, but it helped.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:56 / 19.04.05
I find any day can be made better by the simple things in live... the words "hello, you fool, I love you", for example. Even if they're pre-recorded.
ALWAYS puts me in a mind to join the joyride.
 
 
eye landed
22:30 / 19.04.05
i was having a bad day but now im flushed with personal pride because one of the barbes british androids with thousands of posts actually noticed me! its like going backstage at a zeppelin show (and, o i dunno, cutting toenails)! you may think im being sarcastic but really i feel like i was just initiated at eleusis!

(EDITED BY MODS FOR UNACCEPTABLE LANGUAGE)

sypha, i had a bright idea. try reading the holy bible while you listen to the holy bible. did somebody say that already?

as for the temple, why do experienced and brilliant people like gypsy (who is singled out in admiration, i assure all) have to be such assholes? arent they interested in helping schmucks like me improve ourselves? is an archwizzards schedule really so full that they can only budget enough message board time to trade gnostic peanuts with other selfproclaimed pillars of the global community? really, dudes, im only here to pick up your discarded shells, so theres no need to waste your time crushing anything into butter. i guess nobody cares until i evoke some gods (or an embarassing trope) and force them to. i probably wont do that because im lazy and depressed.

im only posting for solidarity.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:38 / 19.04.05
The language you just used in the second set of brackets is unacceptable sherman. Can someone please delete it, preferably you.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:42 / 19.04.05
Indeed it is.
 
 
Seth
22:56 / 19.04.05
What do you want from Barbelith, Sypha?
 
 
Char Aina
23:16 / 19.04.05
there is an escape.
dying.
wouldnt you feel like a prick if you died before you got to do everything that you've read about, though?
why not immerse yourself ordinary people and their oh-so-mundane lives in an effort to stimulate your creativity?
you could be an agent of goth in a world of norm, cracking open that wierd world once and for all.

it would be a project, wouldnt it?
and it would give you something to pretend you were busying yourself with, wouldnt it?

it might even help you realise that the having sex/friends thing is not a standard to be attained for fucking acceptance or respect.
people reccomend you make friends and fuck people for the benefits to you and the possible effect upon your mood, not so that you can be in the friends and fucking gang.


If anything my life needs less of the mundane.

indeed.
which is why you should give serious thought to how fucking boring it can get when folks give advice only to be asked for it time and time again as if they havent said anything.

i dunno.
you'll prolly dismiss what i say because i said fuck once or twice and you can therefore assume i hate you and am out to get you.
feel free to do so.
i am not.

if you buck the trend and decide to listen to people, and maybe even me, then here's my advice.

an actual plan of action.

open your holy bible up and remove the CD. using both hands, break it in half and mount its corpse on your wall and put it where your eyes will fall on it every time you get out of bed. keep it there until you have bought five new albums by five different artists or waited 6 months, whichever takes you longer.

after this time, take it down.
smash it into as many tiny pieces as you can and then straight away take a bus into town. when there, get someone attractive that you have never met before to buy you a new copy. give hir the money, but make hir buy it for you.
the first person you ask might not say yes, but it wont take long to find someone who will.
persevere, and reflect upon the nature of the exercise as you do so.
as a writer it should be fairly simple to concoct a reasonable excuse for making the person buy it, and i think it important that it is your invention.
once you have the CD in your possesion or have spent two hours walking round town(whichever is longer), go back home.
when you get there, play every album you have bought since the begining of this exercise once through while destroying the case from your original copy of the holy bible.
then, and only then, you can listen to the holy bible again. make sure you keep the volume no higher than you had the other albums.(i'd just play them all really loud, if i was you.)
you should do this while burning the original sleeve notes and keeping a pen and paper handy.
write down anything that comes into your head while listening, but dont worry if your mind stays clear.
once through, then leave it. dont listen to it again that day.



once you're done, PM me.
or dont, if you'd rather not.
you'll be a new man, regardless.

try to resist the urge to just explain to me why it would all be too much for you, and dont tell me that you cant live without the manics for six months. well okay, say what you like. but if you say either of those things i think we can both tell you are talking shit.

feel free to ignore all my advice, but also feel free to realise that if you do, that will be EXACTLY why i'll be so harsh on you and everyone else'll post monkeys.
because of your actions, or lack thereof.
your actions which you can change at any time, starting NOW.





ps

roxette is fucking SPOT ON, lad(ie)s.
well done, i had almost forgotten about them.
'the look' kicked the most ass.
the most.
 
 
---
23:19 / 19.04.05
get a fucking clue, s.h.e.r.m.a.n.

There's no need to be a prick like that. Edit your fucking post.
 
 
Ganesh
23:27 / 19.04.05
Well, the deletion thing was more revelant back at the start of the thread when barely anyone had responded, obviously it's out of the question now. This is why some messageboards let you edit your own posts without asking for permission (actually, this is the only messageboard I've ever frequented where you need to get ask for edits on your own posts... what is up with that?)

I guess what's up with it is attempting to foster a degree of responsibility for what one says online: one cannot simply and immediately airbrush out one's words as if they never existed.

In your case, you've composed a long, angry, bitter howl in which you anticipate 'cry for help' criticism and urge us "don't respond to this" - but subsequently get snippy with people for failing to respond as seriously as you'd like. You also drop in the BPD label - twice - as partial "chaotic passion" justification for tearing into those you feel have "backstabbed" you, then attempting to deny them any comeback (because it'd foster "negativity").

You say, "don't respond" then you react to responses.

You say, "I just need a vacation from this place" then you hang around this place.

You say, "I'm in too much pain to write" then you write loads.

You have a habit of posting interminably long, rather self-centred threads in which you solicit advice (either directly or indirectly, by enummerating your perceived problems) then, when advice is given, avoid acting on it. I'm not convinced you actually want advice in any meaningful sense: I suspect it's more about gaining a response, and I think you prize blandly sympathetic responses far more than useful ones - not least because they allow you to continue using your computer (and the fucking Holy Bible) as a substitute for engaging with the scary business of non-virtual living.

If you truly do have a personality disorder (the dubiousness of the diagnostic concept doesn't seem to stop US psychiatrists overusing it) then yes, you may well find it particularly difficult to interact socially. No-one can do it for you, though, so the sooner you get out there and start practising, the better. Find yourself a psychotherapist by all means, but be aware that, if you're simply looking for approval or sympathy while screening out anything uncomfortable, it'll be a long, expensive process.

In any case, you're responsible for what you say and do. Try to avoid generalising your angst to the whole of "mankind", please.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:40 / 19.04.05
(OFF-TOPIC, but posted to aid transparency)

I've moved to edit s.h.e.r.m.a.n.'s post. If this is agreed to, and anyone has a problem with that decision, then they are welcome to start a Policy thread where I'll be more than happy to discuss it.

I now return you to your scheduled thread.
 
 
Char Aina
23:48 / 19.04.05
oh, and sypha?

Besides, I couldn’t figure out how to drive to the meetings and even the bus schedule proved too complex to figure out.

walk.
start out early enough, and just fucking walk.
if you have no sense of direction, get an A-Z and a compass.
you gave up on the meetings out of fear, and you know it.
fight the fear, dude. its like, the mindkiller and shit.
 
 
paw
00:05 / 20.04.05
second the actually doing some magick thing, plenty of people have offered you help in the Temple...
 
 
--
03:18 / 20.04.05
My comments viz the Temple were perhaps misinformed and I would like to plead I had an intellect malfunction in that regard. I guess I'm just frustrated that I'm not getting anything from the Temple these days. I used to get that feeling, but not so much anymore. Maybe I just ran out of things to say on the topic, I was always trying to be clever or witty but I wore myself out (some would say I never suceeded). And I would say there's a difference between merely knowing about, say, Kenneth Grant or Peter Sotos and actually incorporating them into one's worldview and extracting something meaningful from it while at the same time generating stimulating conversation (at the very least I feel that I did this with the Sotos thread, though people are welcome to disagree). I won't elaborate on my company line policy but I will say that there seem to be certain notions that there's a "proper" way to do magic (or how to think about magic) and I don't agree. Interestingly enough the people who annoy me the most are generally the ones I have the most respect for.

Ganesh, the only reason I'm forced to react to responses is that sometimes someone says something that is simply not true about me and I have to correct the error. If I got snippy to any responses it was because I got responses period, not so much the nature of the responses (of course one could argue that the existence of a messageboard is to post content that facilitates respone and the illogic of posting something on such a place with the intention that it generates no respone, but I'd hardly call this the most logical place). I mentioned error a moment ago, and you accused me of tearing into people who (and this was drama queen of me, I'll admit) backstabbed me. This is patently untrue as I didn't name names (if I had, then your comment would be factual). By "vacation from this place" I was talking about the Temple (I would have edited that last bit in, but, well, you know). And I'd hardly classify the seed that spawned this thread as great "writing". Having said that, the PM comments I got were well written and not kneejerk like a lot of the other stuff that goes down around here sometimes.

What do I expect to get from Barbelith? I thought I used to know but now I don't anymore. To me it's just not as, I don't know, fun as it used to be. It's lost it's magic, but of course back then it was a new, exciting and shiny experience.
 
 
--
03:21 / 20.04.05
I'd like to add that I meant to say "it's lost it's magic for me". I'm positive that many people here still view Barbelith as a stimulating experience, but I find most of the stimulation these days on the forums devoted to music and books and not so much the Temple, which used to be my favorite spot (after comics, that is, though I haven't spent much time there anymore either).
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
04:46 / 20.04.05
toksik: walk

totally. You know, you can do about 25 miles in a day? If you train and shit.
 
  

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