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7 Soldiers: Guardian

 
  

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Eloi Tsabaoth
11:07 / 03.03.05

Grant Morrison joins forces with collaborator Cameron Stewart (CATWOMAN) for a 4-issue miniseries that weaves a tale of Guardian, a hero who's the living masthead of the Manhattan Guardian newspaper mdash; the only newspaper that lives up to its credo: "We don't just report crime...we fight crime!"

After the accidental shooting of a child that resulted in his handing over his badge, ex-cop Jim Harper tries to get his life in gear by applying for the job of The Guardian after spending more than a year dealing with personal demons. But Jim quickly learns to be careful what he wishes for, as the new Guardian finds himself in a pitched battle with Subway Pirates! Will he survive the ride of his life through the unknown subterranean world of New York?

Insert discussion here.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:39 / 03.03.05
Rock on. Cameron and Grant, together again! Really looking forward to this.
 
 
Billuccho!
20:19 / 03.03.05
It's best to link to Cam's interview, what with the preview pages and info and all.
 
 
The Falcon
23:41 / 14.03.05
Preview? Ping on!

Now featuring words and colours.

Evoking Watchmen for me, here, you know - the metropolitan setting + pirates.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
03:00 / 15.03.05
I love the 80's Batman coloring on this. Goes nice with the Marshall Rogers level of loveliness.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:41 / 15.03.05
Just a quick thought here. It seems that the Guardian is African-American, something I hadn't realised before.

Is this going to raise any of the same issues around representation of culture and ethnicity that we had with Vimanarama?

I ask because my first response would be "no" -- just as we don't ask about a Scottish author's representation of white Americans in most of his DC comics (Doom Patrol, Animal Man, JLA) or indeed white English people in Zenith, St Swithins Day, Kill Your Boyfriend, New Adventures of Hitler.

A Black American is, arguably, twice-removed from Morrison's own cultural and ethnic position -- more so than a British Asian. To the best of my knowledge, this would be the first time such a character has been the main protagonist in any Grant Morrison comic.

Is this going to be a discussion point? If not, why not? Or have I judged the character's ethnicity wrong?
 
 
Triplets
09:58 / 15.03.05
lmao, new york pirate talk


garrrr y'arrrr!
 
 
Ganesh
11:21 / 15.03.05
Is this going to be a discussion point? If not, why not? Or have I judged the character's ethnicity wrong?

I'd say no also, possibly because compared with cinematic and televisual representation of British Asians, there exists a far, far wider range of cultural archetypes of Americans - even Black Americans - to which that Scottish writer has access, meaning a) even though he may be "twice-removed" from his subject matter, he can draw upon a much richer archive, and produce a more subtle depiction, and b) with greater overall 'visibility' of the subgroup depicted, there's likely to be less controversy over how the Scottish writer goes about it, because his portrayal carries less significance.
 
 
LDones
12:33 / 15.03.05
You know, Duncan, that's a crazy evocation. I've been feeling the same vibe but couldn't name it until you did. That kind of urban-pirate-senselsss-violence thing pulls my mind to Watchmen and the Black Freighter immediately, even if I feel silly afterward. How strange.

I seem get the same reaction off that opening double=page splash that I do from the early pages of Vimanarama #2 - something about the presentation of the violence irks me. I may just be getting more sensitive to that kind of thing, or it may be because it slightly disturbs me seeing ultra-violence rendered by artists whom I associate with charming, whimsical imagery. Prob'ly that, though I'm curious as to if others get similar responses off these who normally don't. Regardless, the thought of Cameron drawing subway pirates gruesomely murdering innocent people makes my small-child-whimsy get all weird.


kovacs, I'm afraid you've made a discussion out of the Guardian's ethnicity by asking if there will be a discussion made out of it.

I'm inclined to say that human beings are human beings, and wondering if a discussion should be made about the Manhattan Guardian being black is a bit like regarding black Americans as a form of life completley alien to you or Grennis Mheatley. That may be a tad reactionary on my part.

I highly doubt the new Guardian 4-issue will deal with the subject of the black experience in America, anymore than the Zatanna series will focus on being white in same. Nor do I think it should be an issue if it does or doesn't, unless it seems dishonest/lazy/disengenuous about its methods.

Out tomorrow, yeah?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:44 / 15.03.05
No.
 
 
Mario
13:07 / 15.03.05
Furthermore, Grant HAS written African-American characters before (Jom Crow & Boy, in Invisibles). Indeed, Boy is probably the sanest person in the book.
 
 
Ganesh
13:12 / 15.03.05
Indeed, Boy is probably the sanest person in the book

... but not the "main protagonist", which was kinda Kovacs' point. And I seem to recall there was considerable discussion at the time about how unconvincing/boring/shit a character she was.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:35 / 15.03.05
This is the shit I really want: Sunlubbers! Pirate tubes! Lightbulbs for Earrings! RocK!$! TEH!!!!1111!!!!?¬!
 
 
The Falcon
13:37 / 15.03.05
I'm inclined to say that human beings are human beings, and wondering if a discussion should be made about the Manhattan Guardian being black is a bit like regarding black Americans as a form of life completley alien to you or Grennis Mheatley. That may be a tad reactionary on my part.

I've kind've made this point before; we're nearly all 'writing the other' when a discussion goes this way, and everyone gets a bit jumpy. Regarding Vimanarama there are obvs. a few sticky wickets these days to pass, Islam being the hot topic it is; I think he's realised doing suicide bombers (as he kind of wanted to but never quite did with Dust, and he has Ali do the prior in Vima) would just upset too many people.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:08 / 15.03.05
fishnet comic will be best.

then the bright knight.

next will come guardian joint equal with frank stein.

the others will be good too but that's the top three.

signed,

Ho Garden.

ps. probly none will be as good as the watchman though.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
14:17 / 15.03.05
kovacs, I'm afraid you've made a discussion out of the Guardian's ethnicity by asking if there will be a discussion made out of it.

I'm inclined to say that human beings are human beings, and wondering if a discussion should be made about the Manhattan Guardian being black is a bit like regarding black Americans as a form of life completley alien to you or Grennis Mheatley. That may be a tad reactionary on my part.

I highly doubt the new Guardian 4-issue will deal with the subject of the black experience in America, anymore than the Zatanna series will focus on being white in same. Nor do I think it should be an issue if it does or doesn't, unless it seems dishonest/lazy/disengenuous about its methods.



My observation was, really, that I don't expect any issue will be raised about how well Morrison conveys the African-American "experience", whether he draws on stereotypes from cinema, the extent to which he canvassed Black friends about their identity, family, community, dialect, whether the Guardian has an uninspired "African-American" name and so on.

Yet all these points were raised with regard to Vimanarama. Perhaps there is a clear difference, as Ganesh suggests, because there's not such obvious novelty in a superhero comic about a Black American as about a British Asian, and so there's more precedent and less pressure on Morrison to get it "right" and do something "positive" with the characters. There is far more of a cultural bank for a Scottish author to draw on with regard to African-American characters, so any issue of researching to get the culture "accurate" (I seem to be feeling the need for a lot of distancing quotations marks here) is also diluted.

No, I'm not asking for a discussion about the Guardian as a representation of an African-American. I was asking -- because the thought struck me, not because it's a huge deal to me -- why we might expect that nobody will discuss this comic in that way, in contrast to the focus on representation of ethnicity in Vimanarama.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:22 / 15.03.05
kovey: lett's wait for the first issue to comee out eh!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:41 / 15.03.05
I was asking -- because the thought struck me, not because it's a huge deal to me -- why we might expect that nobody will discuss this comic in that way, in contrast to the focus on representation of ethnicity in Vimanarama.

If The Guardian listens to nothing but hip hop and fights people dressed like 70s pimps, then we might. People largely perceived Vimanarama to be engaging with or in stereotypes (the debate being to what extent this was successful or advisable).
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:22 / 15.03.05
B-but we have to do something while we're waiting for the actual comic to come out.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
18:09 / 15.03.05
Go outside and smell the daisies.
 
 
Benny the Ball
18:36 / 15.03.05
Isn't Mr Miracle also an African American character in GM's book?

It's an interesting point though, Kovacs. It seems that Indain/Pakistani sterotypes (media-cultural) are strongly established in a way that makes the characters instantly characture-ous (not a word, I know) - by this I mean arranged marriages, corner shop tick-box style character templates, that can make people react to the characture and not the character. I'm not implying that black stero-types are less strong (in the media world) just that there may be more of a sense of needing to water down black characters to the essence of cool, born from the fact that most filmic (at least) representations of Afro-Americans particualrly are presented this way, whereas Indian and/or Pakistani characters have more of a comedy presentation (Kuma's etc).

Not sure if that makes sense?
 
 
The Falcon
22:34 / 15.03.05
I believe the Shiloh Norman Mr. M is jewish, aksherly.
 
 
panthergod
23:00 / 15.03.05
Shilo Mister Miracle is black and was introduced during the Giffen Justice League run. He was Scott Free's apprentice in escape artistry.
 
 
Billuccho!
23:10 / 15.03.05
Actually, he was introduced during Kirby's run on Mister Miracle, if I rememeber correctly, though he was brought back by either Giffen or DeMatteis.
 
 
Benny the Ball
23:02 / 16.03.05
Doug Monech, according to a site I just read.

I'm looking forward to the Mr Miricle book quite a bit, just really interested in seeing where GM goes with it.

But sorry, back to Guardian...
 
 
Billuccho!
23:38 / 16.03.05
Yes, back to Guardian:

"Subway pirates" is one of those so-freaking-cool ideas, and probably makes every writer say "I wish I thought of that." The preview's snazzy and I look forward to the comic.
 
 
Triplets
09:29 / 17.03.05
Grant had me at the train skull.
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:43 / 23.03.05
Congratulations on a job well done CAM.

I was particularly fond of that "fish eye" prespective used for the Guardian Building. Had to give a double take as it initially flowed into the story but then I can to examine the use of perspective as a static image. The artistic style seems to have shifted as well, it's grittier and the ocasional panel reminded me of Richard Corbin.

Some of the action sequences seemed very "rated G" but I suppose my expectations have been influenced by some recent VERTIGO series hmmmm. This is an all ages show and even some of the Pirate brutality seemed to reflect that. Not really a complaint...

PS. who's idea was it to have subway pirates riding the aaaaaaRrgh line?
 
 
CameronStewart
20:53 / 23.03.05
>>>PS. who's idea was it to have subway pirates riding the aaaaaaRrgh line?<<<

Ha! The "R" train was my idea, actually, I didn't think anyone would pick up on it. Well done!

Glad you liked it...
 
 
Mario
21:21 / 23.03.05
I liked the little throwaway line referring to Shilo Norman. I'm guessing that will pay off in Mister Miracle #1.

Oh, and 1 for the Wiki. The Project they mentioned is almost certainly Project Cadmus, from the Kirby Jimmy Olsen run, which not only cloned the original Guardian (the first time) but also the Newsboy Legion.
 
 
doyoufeelloved
22:27 / 23.03.05
some of the action sequences seemed very "rated G"

You mean the guy being graphically speared onto a subway column while a fountain of blood shoots from his chest? Yeah, that reminded me of FINDING NEMO. Dude. You need to alter your ratings system a bit. That shot really creeped me out, as others have already said.

Great stuff, Cameron. And yeah, the RRRRRRRR was hilarious. And 8th Street! That was my stop in college! I don't want to be butchered there!
 
 
Aertho
23:12 / 23.03.05
Fucking BRILLIANT. And I'm going to make myself a Newsboy Army card, just to fit in.
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:31 / 23.03.05
perhaps it was the style of art but the subway combat seemed to match having the protagonist's brood of babies being eaten by a giant barracuda.

Yeah the guy gets the skin ripped off his back buy a guy with hooks for hands but (to me) it played out much more swiftly than a scene from SAW. The scenes read as more suggestive of violence than explicit graphic violence. Sorry to hear you were so disturbed by the scene, I appriecated them but felt (upon first reading) it was more ACTION oriented rather than VIOLENCE oriented.

I would say the same for the INTERVIEW scene. Very enjoyable action but it didn't seem all that violent. From what I recall of CATOWMAN I feel Cam can do both. I wonder if there was a consious differentiation on his part.

Or it's just a difference to me.

I certainly wouldn't want to be caught in such a subway scene while in Manhattan. On the other hand, I couldn't help but notice a genericness to the swords they all carried . . . booty form a recent raid on the local NINJA hide out?

Meanwhile:
on the race thing. It seems GM's writting a young urban family more than an African American one. Not that the two are mutually exclusive.
 
 
Billuccho!
01:35 / 24.03.05
Crap! This is out today! And I didn't pre-order it! And surely there won't be any left on the shelf by the time I get to the shop.

Akg. We'll see...
 
 
FinderWolf
12:25 / 24.03.05
This was a lot of fun. I see tiny differences in Cam's art style (from Seaguy), moreso in the line work and how he's adding space, depth and texture to things.

The "ARrrrrr" line - nice one.

So the guy who owns the paper and is now a Max Headroom type entity with his brain in a jar somewhere used to be part of the original Newsboy Legion back in the 40s or whatever?

My favorite thing, I think, was the Newsboy Army - sort of like a scaled-down, low-rent Global Frequency for kids. The kid on the scooter just seemed so cool, so calm & collected in the face of adventure.

The final page was just 100% FUN.
 
  

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