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Are you ready for your annual review?

 
  

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Benny the Ball
18:22 / 16.12.04
Excuse the ramble, I've had a long day and my back is numb.

I sometimes wonder if I made no impression for a first impression, and feel that I never really introduced myself to the board properly - sometimes feel that my fiction suit is broken, as it were, and that I maybe do not communicate too clearly as I often find that I have to reply to replies to my posts, or that a thread of mine dies. Anyway, hello to everyone.

Now, onto my story of the day - well year, a review of I suppose.

Some of you may remember that I have a girlfriend that lives in LA, while I am over here in England. Now the background of us is that we have known each other for ten years now, meeting through her friend and my friend sharing a year and a house at University, and a coinciding visit. I feel for her instantly, and after a few mumbled greetings finally got talking to her. We had a great night, sadly for me, fueled by the old dutch courage. Anyway, the dutch didn't agree with me, but when I woke up, worst for wear the next morning she was there (I'd fallen asleep on a sofa, she was asleep curled up on a chair). More falling for her. Then I went back to London from friend's university. She, along with her and my friend, visited, but it was awkward, partly due to my panic that she couldn't possibly like me, and so spent too much time looking for signs from each other, so it went a little odd. Then she went home. We visited a few months later, and tried to find to same signs, but for whatever reason I was sure they weren't there. Then she left for college and I felt my heart kick itself for not talking to her about it. Then I went home, and thought about her a lot. So I wrote a letter. There was no reply, and off I went to University, had a miserable time (another story) and then left with little but a bad job to go to. Then I got a letter, from her, some 5 years later. We wrote to each other, but moved around, and ended up in different relationships on different sides of the world, and lost touch again. Now I find myself in a relationship that isn't happy, and in a job I like, but is hard. After a long night working, I get home ready for another night on the sofa (the relationship was coming to an end around this time, but it was dragging on and I had nowhere else to live really) and decided to do a google search for her. Found a contact address, and sent an email. That was nearly 18 months ago. Since then we have gone from email, to letter, to visits, to phonecalls to visits to realising that we are made for each other and completely in love in everyway possible. Yes it's hard, what with the distance (the worst time of day is mid-day, when I think of something that I want to share with her, but realise that she is still sound asleep and miles away) and I miss her incredibly, but since being with her I have become a calmer and much happier person. And I'm off to spend christmas with her, and new year. Should be great. I had an idea of asking her to marry me on the stroke of midnight New Year's eve, but wanted to do things properly, and so wrote a letter to her dad asking his permission (well, not his permission, just saying that I would be happier with his blessing) so have put that plan on hold.

I have no idea why I'm writting this, to what end, I guess maybe the Genesh "love" thread got me thinking more about her, and I guess also because I just wanted to write something more than the usual one or two ill thought out lines of comment that I have so far managed on the board.

Oh, also this year saw me sell (for money and everything!) two of my scripts, and I have been asked to submit second drafts on both of them.

2004, how's it been for you?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:51 / 16.12.04
Let the mockery commence!
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:59 / 16.12.04
Benny, not meaning to rot this thread or anything, but can you tell me why you would ask someone's dad if you could marry them?
 
 
Lurid Archive
18:59 / 16.12.04
You are going straight to Hell for that, Flyboy. Evil.
 
 
Benny the Ball
19:06 / 16.12.04
I'm not really asking his permission (see, not great at communicating on this damned site!) more that he seems the traditional kind type, and they are very close, so I wrote the letter to him more to let him know my intentions (which are to marry his daughter who I'm very much in love with and is very much in love with me). I did it more to ensure that I didn't step on any toes and just incase my first impression (which I made to him in October) didn't smack of commitment to his daughter.
 
 
w1rebaby
19:12 / 16.12.04
I'd just like to say that I just realised that, for the first time in five years, I don't have to do a real performance & development review, and go through the last set of lies and made-up goals making up ways in which they've been completed and inventing new ones.

Skill!

Sorry, as you were.
 
 
Sekhmet
19:16 / 16.12.04
I actually think the whole thing's rather sweet.

However, Benny... be very careful about marrying on the basis of an on-and-off acquaintance and a year and a half of very-long-distance courtship. It could all be fine, but be aware that committing to living with someone, day in and day out, is not at all the same thing as writing e-mails and having short, passionate visits.

Best wishes all the same, I hope it works out.

* * * * * * *

All I can say about 2004 is that it was interesting, if a bit crazed, and I hope/predict 2005 turns out to be more interesting still. Most of this year seems to have been spent in preparing for things that haven't yet happened.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
19:38 / 16.12.04
Yeah, I think it's romantic and quaint. I like that. This Hogmanay, I shall ask Ganesh's Mum and Stepdad for his hand.

There are quite a few Lithers who will identify with the long distance lurve thing, Benny, and they have written eloquently on other threads. Bittersweet, the total immersion irl every now and then, followed always by the week or month in waiting for the next time. Hard not to be sharing the big events but harder still to miss out on the boring nothing nights in when you just relax together, talking rubbish, watching crap tv, eating pizza.

I had a year of it and I wasn't tough enough for the longer haul. I missed the pizza.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
19:50 / 16.12.04
And as for my annual review: 2004 started well with a long holiday in the sun and ended well in a flurry of theatre-going and socialising.

In the middle bit we did nothing very much all week but partied up a storm at lovely Duckie at the weekend. Sundays, we stayed in the warm and protested, naked and unshaven, for World Peace. And, clearly, the world has been the more peaceful for it.
 
 
Baz Auckland
21:02 / 16.12.04
2004 was far better than 2003. I'm back with my Love, I've gone from moving to Japan alone, to actually having plane tickets to Berlin with aforementioned Love...

For the first time in over two years I managed to get a new job! For the first time ever, I managed to learn quite a lot of a foreign language!

Here's to 2005! Woo!
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
21:11 / 16.12.04
2004.

1st Quarter: yay!
2nd Quarter: yay?
3rd Quarter: yay!
4th Quarter: No.
 
 
ibis the being
21:35 / 16.12.04
I was never good at long-distance love. I'm prone to idealizing people as it is, and when you add long absences, late night phone calls, and love letters into the mix, it's a disaster for me. Every time I'd see the person IRL I'd feel this massive deflation as he failed to measure up to the God-like version I built in my head while he was gone.

2004. Massive changes. One big transition, in pretty much every aspect of my life, but most of all in my nutty little self.
 
 
Lurid Archive
21:44 / 16.12.04
This Hogmanay, I shall ask Ganesh's Mum and Stepdad for his hand.

Harvesting body parts I get, its the parental approval that baffles me.
 
 
Ganesh
21:52 / 16.12.04
I think he's getting confused with 'hand-job'.
 
 
w1rebaby
22:16 / 16.12.04
What a well-brought-up chap. It's always polite to make the request in these circumstances. Families always appreciate being asked.

A blow job, you should really put something in writing.
 
 
Ganesh
22:19 / 16.12.04
And flowers afterwards.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
04:53 / 17.12.04
I don't want to make Benny the Ball feel put-upon here but I can't help feeling a bit wierded out by the whole "writing to her dad" thing. It seems a bit anachronistic, like it's not entirely her decision. I mean, she's not her dad's, right? She's hers.
 
 
Sean the frumious Bandersnatch
05:59 / 17.12.04
No, you don't understand. She is her dad's. She's a robot! Her "dad" created her, and now she's doing highway construction in Japan. It's good to see a techno-fetishist finally settling down with the hard drive of his dreams.

Anyway, good luck with this, Benny. We're only joking because nobody loves us. All of my friends are getting married and I am stuck as the lonesome bachelor.

2004 was a whole lot of nothing, and I can't say that I'll miss her much. 2005 is looking a lot better.
 
 
lekvar
06:30 / 17.12.04
I can't help feeling a bit wierded out by the whole "writing to her dad" thing.

Sadly, there are still people out there who would insist on this. They really don't live in the same world we do. I'm fairly sure that if I asked for my girlfriend's hand in marriage without first getting her parent's approval there would be a good chance of her father showing up on our doorstep with a loaded gun.

He's done it before.

No, I am not kidding.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
07:11 / 17.12.04
[shrug]

Hand in marriage is a patriarchal legacy. (Arguably, so is marriage, but who's counting?) Yes, it's an old-fashioned thing to do. If it's a thing which will make the family happy and that's something which matters to the daughter, I don't honestly see the harm. God knows, it's hardly the only ludicrous and bizarre ritual one's going to have to go through to achieve 'married' status.

Two of my brothers married women from (or partly from) cultures where a bride-price - the opposite of a dowry, I suppose - was traditional, and the older members of those families would have been totally scandalised if the tradition had been ignored without comment. Since that could have meant exclusion from the bride's family's society, it's no mild threat. One paid the bride-price with much ceremony, marching a certain amount of livestock around the place and so on. The other brought the bride's relatives to his home to show them who he was and how the couple would live, and they acknowledged that although no actual transaction was taking place, he himself was sufficiently valuable that they were not aggrieved (I think, in fact, he just charmed his future wife's grandmother to the point where she laid down the law and everyone fell into line.)

That said, a mate of mine asked his future wife's father for her hand at a family gathering near Manchester. Everyone knew their lines, but the dad departed from the agreed text with "Well, lad, what are your prospects?" and bride-to-be burst into tears and the mum started throwing things. It's a minefield.

2004: so far, so good. Shacked up, locked the Movie That Would Not Die, turned 32, learned to tango, and had my place re-done. Haven't seen as much of some of my friends as I'd like, but there's only so many hours in the day.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:15 / 17.12.04
Hand in marriage is a patriarchal legacy... I don't honestly see the harm.

The world is full of wonderful surprises.
 
 
_Boboss
08:34 / 17.12.04
and crushingly predictable asides.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
08:47 / 17.12.04
Tradition gives an action like this the veneer of acceptability, that doesn't make it right or appropriate. This is just another way to take female control away from marriage- what do women get? A man down on one knee for a second but father gives you away and agrees that marriage is acceptable in the first place.

There's nothing acceptable about asking someone's father before you ask the woman who would be your wife. What's marriage about if not the partnership of two people? So why bring a third person in to it if they don't own the right to dictate their preference? I think it's pretty shameful to treat someone as if they're owned. I don't want to be an object, I'm shocked that so many women do and that so many men are willing to treat women like this without realising that they're even doing it.

But I'm stating the obvious here, it's just a shame that so many people would rather follow tradition than think about the social and personal ramifications of their actions.
 
 
lekvar
09:58 / 17.12.04
Anna, it's about becoming a member of the family as a whole, not just the indidvidual you're proposing to. Presumably if you're to the point where you're proposing or being proposed to there's a good chance of finding happpiness with that person. The extended family is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. Thus the need to make nice-nice with the grizzled old family patriach and matriarch.

It's not a question of taking the choice out of the hands of the woman, it's playing politics with what may be your new family. It's saying "here i am, I want to be a part of your tribe, please accept me." Yes it's outdated, but that's the way politics are. It's like meeting the parents for the first time, or being introduced to your S.O.'s friends from highschool. There are powerplays in all of these transactions, and whether or not you and your mate are happy together can depend largely on the society you exist within.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
10:03 / 17.12.04
marriage = slavery
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
10:21 / 17.12.04
Also, family = slavery
 
 
Tryphena Absent
10:25 / 17.12.04
Yes, it's about proposing and then going to your family to introduce your partner to them as your future spouse. It's about prioritising people's importance. It's about working in a partnership, not informing someone else of a potential proposition before your partner knows about it.
 
 
_Boboss
10:31 / 17.12.04
sloganeering = prickishness*, or to put it another way, ever met any slaves?

the beauty of freedom is that people can choose to whom and for what they wish to be beholden. so benny's girl (what? look! you've just said he owns her! faaaaark!) happens to relate to her father in such a way that they'd both be happier if her prospective life partner was to (in)formally acknowledge her family's involvement and interest in her happiness (very shortly) before asking her if she wants him to be a permanent member of that family. according to some in this thread, this personal and consensual choice, made by an independent adult, is in the teeth of all the evidence, ACTUALLY benny's girl acknowledging that she IS the physical property of another human being! how simple do you have to be to reckon that?

simple enough not to notice that 'tradition' is assumed to be 'bad', (i.e. that similar human actions that have been performed by similar humans in similar situations are ALWAYS flawed) unless said tradition correlates closely to western feminist modes of thought and action. simple enough to pretend fair-mindedness while demanding the rest of the world think exactly like them. simple, and condescending, enough to assume anyone with a differing view on how they organise their lives has simply refused to think about the consequences of their actions.

liberte! la revolution! oh dear.

*barbelith 04? same as barbelith N.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
10:35 / 17.12.04
(in)formally

Which is it?
 
 
_Boboss
11:17 / 17.12.04
both. it's a formal act, but can well be performed in an informal manner. sorry if that was a toughie.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:19 / 17.12.04
so benny's girl (what? look! you've just said he owns her! faaaaark!) happens to relate to her father in such a way that they'd both be happier if her prospective life partner was to (in)formally acknowledge her family's involvement and interest in her happiness (very shortly) before asking her if she wants him to be a permanent member of that family.

Really? Where did she say that? Where did Benny even say that she felt that way?

Oh, the slings and arrows of being called a simple-minded sloganeering 'Western' feminist by someone who's stated that he's quite comfortable in his own misogyny...
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
11:24 / 17.12.04
What are you talking about?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
11:24 / 17.12.04
Er, Gumbitch. What are you talking about, Gumbitch.
 
 
Cheap. Easy. Cruel.
12:00 / 17.12.04
Asking for the hand of your intended is a tradition, especially in the southern US. I will probably do it to satisfy tradition. It really depends on the family and what kind of relationship they have. I know several women who would not dream of saying yes to a proposal of marriage unless they had the approval of their family.

I see it as a nod to her family, who has an interest in her future, rather than treating her as chattel. I will also be asking her parents to share any concerns that they have as to compatibility. Often, the parents can see potential problems that those embroiled in the relationship can't.

If I ever decide to ask someone to marry me, I am going to insist on pre-marriage counselling. I have spoken with several people who have done this and they all said that the counsellor (almost always a psychologist) was able to identify potential problems and conflicts, and help them develop strategies to avoid or deal with them when they arose.
 
 
haus of fraser
12:05 / 17.12.04
Let the mockery commence!

yep there are a couple of people looking like pricks in this thread at the moment- and I'm not looking at Benny or Gumbitch.

where's your Christmas cheer?

Good luck Benny - ignore the pricks trying to start a fight before school closes for the holidays...
 
  

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