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Stuck in a paradigm

 
  

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Ganesh
00:29 / 15.12.04
The other day, I remembered the Medical Ethics part of my training, in Year Three of a five-year degree. At that time, we were told it was important to think about moral dilemmas "because you're still thinking as a person rather than as a doctor" - and that stuck in my mind.

I worry that, to a certain extent, I now approach the world "as a doctor". My default is a sort of rationalist cynicism born of my medical training. If I'm being especially conspiracist, I'll posit that medical training is specifically designed to burn a 'doctor' worldview into the consciousness of an impressionable young adult - and certain rituals (dissection of a human cadaver being the main one) consolidate this.

Sometimes, I worry that I've lost the capacity to think as something other than a doctor - or a scientist, or a rationalist.

What do other people think?
 
 
---
00:57 / 15.12.04
It sounds like you're stuck in the 'Doctor' character, and you need to find some other things that stop that from being so dominant.

Try remembering what you where like, or at least what your 'character' was before you began approaching the world as a Doctor. Associate with different types of people, or characters, even fictional if it helps. Have you tried meditation? Maybe that will bring more fluidity to your reality tunnel.

Also, guessing that you know Jung, maybe try looking at his personality types and getting in touch with the opposite types to what you consider yourself could help. (only mentioning this guessing that you could already be familiar with it and because I rememember it working well for myself when I tried it, bringing balance aswell)

I have this a lot, but not for long periods of time. All I usually do is read about some different types of spirituality/magick etc, or learn more about a path that I'm interested in, and that paths mindset overlaps my old worldview if I was finding it static and unwanted. Fiction also works great most of the time if it's good enough.
 
 
rising and revolving
01:23 / 15.12.04
Whenever you find yourself being too much of a doctor, take a load off by thinking of yourself as The Doctor, from Authority.

Go on a heroin binge and be the earths shaman fer a while - mix it up! Live a little!

Okay. Not the most useful suggestion. Erm.
 
 
--
02:08 / 15.12.04
I'm picturing the Architect here...
 
 
Unconditional Love
04:59 / 15.12.04
perhaps from what you said about the body, a way to change your world view may be to paint nudes, to learn to see the human body for its beauty and a piece of natures art/creation.

i dont know where you are but there are usually these classes at colleges in a local area.

or a form of massage, your medical knowlege would be handy, but its a very different way of relating to the human body.
 
 
Seth
07:14 / 15.12.04
Wanting to have the capacity to think as something other than a doctor - or a scientist, or a rationalist is quite a vague remit, ‘Nesh. It’s defined in negative, too: wanting to have the capacity to do something that you can’t do now. Which specific ways of thinking would you like to develop in addition to that of doctor, scientist and rationalist?

Once you’ve defined your goal, will you need a way of successfully moving between the different ways of thinking? Or will you aim to integrate them into a single way of thinking? Do you think they’d be mutually exclusive in certain contexts?

I’m also specifically interested in this statement: At that time, we were told it was important to think about moral dilemmas "because you're still thinking as a person rather than as a doctor" - and that stuck in my mind. Because this seems to indicate that what you’re posting about isn’t just about developing the capability to think in new ways. It suggests that what you understand to be your identity as a person is at stake.

This is important, because you use different methodologies to effect changes to your identity than you do to change what your identity is capable of doing. Of course, it’s never quite that simple (the one will always effect the other and vice versa), but it’s a useful way of looking at things in order to get a sense of how deep the changes you seek may have to run, and about how personal it will be to you.

To an extent you’re halfway there already. If you were thinking purely as a doctor and not as a person then you’d never have noticed that there might be a potential problem with that, and therefore never written this topic. The very act of starting the thread proves you to be a person first and foremost, capable of assessing the merits of when it is appropriate to act as a doctor. You may just want more of that.
 
 
Z. deScathach
08:42 / 15.12.04
I've found an effective method to be "glamouring". Essentially, it involves taking up the appearance and behavior of a type of person that you are not. To really get into their place, their thoughts and actions. For instance, a person who's very casual and somewhat street may, if they have the bucks, get a suit, change their hair, and start hanging around the financial district. First, observe the individuals that you wish to mimic, then do it. It's important to pick a role that is not too close to what you already are, otherwise, it is easy to remain stuck in one's old patterns. An actual Young Urban Professional might want to try living as a homeless person for a period of time, along with appearance and mannerisms to pull it off. It's also important to relate to people in the group that you are glamouring, as that actually is what loosens self-concept more then anything. It can also be a handy survival tool.....
 
 
Mug Chum
10:20 / 15.12.04
he-hey... dont'you worry about being stuck in a paradigm, buddy. R.A. Wilson is in the same one for about forty years. I myself am too. And a lot of these fellas are as well.

- Just to be contrary. No where to be serious here. Thanks for the oportunity.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
14:50 / 15.12.04
as a Doctor, prescribe yourself better drugs than Heroin!

Anyway, I have often been intrigued by you Ganesh as I have wondered about this very point. For example, how do you view Magick with your rationalist side?

Presumably (by virtue of the fact that you post on Temple) believe in Magick's efficacy and I was wondering how you reconcile your scientific and esoteric sides.

I can offer you no advice about the rut you seem to be in as I cannot even help myself so my words would be empty gestures. I was very interested in your assertion that medical training and dissections , you believe may 'imprint' some new paradigm. I suppose such an act must have a huge impact on your psyche

great thread Ganesh. I hope (if it is not too intrusive a question) that you can answer some of my queries as to how you view or practice magick in the course of your exploring the issues you brought up in this thread
 
 
gale
15:56 / 15.12.04
Ganesh,

You are in a tough field. To an extent, you must not think like a person, but you ARE a person. From the degree of your perceptiveness in this post and others, I think that perhaps you aren't stuck at all.

One thing to try is when you develop an opinion, find reasons for having the opposite opinion. Just to see if you can. This has been recommended in various books, Crowley for sure, probably RAW.

You can learn a lot about yourself, even if you fail miserably. I ran into trouble when I said "Republicans are bad." Well, they are--very. I spent a lot of time trying to think of reasons why Republicans are good, and couldn't come up with any. Not one, unless I went back to the 18th century. So I learned that I am stuck in a worldview where Republicans are bad. And I can live with that. I was surprised at my complete inability to budge my instrinsic beliefs, but maybe some beliefs are worth holding.
 
 
· N · E · T ·
17:05 / 15.12.04
I think you should use hypnosis to make your breasts smaller.

Then listen to Seth cause he's right on.

Maybe afterwards you can have some ice cream.

But really though, there are a lot of good ideas here. Just remember, flexibility comes easiest in tiny increments. Keep stretching as much as is comfortable and you'll be there in no time.
 
 
Seth
00:35 / 16.12.04
Consider this a cheatsheet on on what Z.deScathach calls glamouring. None of it is true, it’s just a useful generalised map that I’ve trained in and learned from personal experience. You don’t have to call it glamouring, either: my trainers didn’t name it at all. It’s one thing to notice how you are different when you wear clothes and cut your hair differently to how you might usually. It’s yet another to assume a role. But I believe the most significant differences can be noticed by wearing different physiologies:

- Notice your beliefs and ways of thinking on an important issue, especially an area that you feel stuck. Now, trail a person as they walk ahead of you. Try to duplicate their physiology. They way they walk, the way they hold their posture, the way they breathe, their inconsistencies from the left side of their body to their right, their centre of gravity. If you’re in a club, dance the way they dance. Build up your personal mirror in tiny sections in order to wear them fully. Or try them on in totality to begin with, then go for the small details. Mirco to macro, macro to micro, whichever you want, as long as you try it on as completely as possible. It can never be a perfect duplicate. Now notice how you believe about your stuck issue. Reich and the people who pursue his line of thought often speak of character armour, of the ways in which our personality is held within the stress and tension of our bodies. Until you have fully worn someone else’s physiology you may not have thought it possible to experience the world so completely differently from the manner in which you currently perceive it. It’s interesting to pick someone totally different from you for this exercise. I did it with someone from the opposite sex, a high powered high stress business woman. I came back to my original issues with a completely different perspective (but then, I had already trained in techniques of noticing facets of my experience of the world in minute detail, and was primed to observe changes that might normally be imperceptible. I was also primed to believe that there would be a change from my state before to after the exercise. Don’t underestimate the effect that might have on the exercise, but know that it’ll probably work anyway. You’d be surprised how uncomfortable it can be.

- The right hand side of your body is often associated with the social aspects of being, how one fits within a social context, the conformative, what one does. It may have a predisposition to logic, the evaluative, one’s place, belonging, how one is appreciated, safety. The left hand side is often associated with one’s unique self, the heart, the full individual human experience, the heart, being. You may find it predisposed to freedom, creativity, spontaneity, the heart’s desire, and passion.

- Eye movements can be extremely revealing. The following are examples of if you’re aware of the movement of the eyes in your own head (reverse left and right if you’re observing someone). In general, eyes moving straight ahead or upwards are associated with states of visualisation. To either side they’re associated with listening. To the bottom left they tend to indicate internal dialogue, to the bottom right feelings and emotions. The right hand side is typically associated with remembered visual, auditory and kinaesthetic stimuli, the left with created stimuli. Pay attention to yourself and how you compare and contrast with this map. Type “eye accessing cues” into Google for a schematic, remembering that they will depict another person as if you are looking at them.

- The body posture typically associated with having a sensory bias towards visual stimuli is more upright, straight backed, high centre of gravity (around the chest, usually), with breathing in the upper chest, head straight and eyes in facing straight ahead or upwards, feet angled outwards. With auditory, the head is inclined to the preferred ear, in fact the entire body may incline to one side (as if one were speaking on the telephone, notice your preferred ear for hearing), and the breathing will be typically located in the middle of one’s chest, eyes to either side. With kinaesthetic one might have a low centre of gravity, eyes moving downwards, feet angled inwards, breathing from the diaphragm, bent at the knees. Become adept in using all three physiologies and notice the difference that makes to your experience.

- If you ask someone to remember an experience, watch their eyes. It’ll be like watching a sphere roll across a pitted field, like the game Marble Madness. Their eyes may roll across an indentation in this metaphorical pitted field, and come to rest in that indentation. They’ll be in a mini trance state for this period. There may be several such “indentations” or rest states, and they may only occur in the space of milliseconds, so watch closely. These are the memories being located, as all information is originally absorbed in sensory experience and stored physiologically. The memories may also be out of awareness, unconscious, so be careful if you’re calling someone on where their eyes rest: they may not be forthcoming, either through choice or what they are capable of knowing at that point.

- There are several physiologies that are associated with personality types (here my memories become sketchy, I’m waiting on further resources to arrive via email for clarification). For example, people who are tall and thin, with darting eyes and a physiology with a lot of nervous energy at the extremities (they may seem to be all elbows, all knees) may be very attention seeking, continually reaffirming their own existence (they may well use spoken language to this effect, “He/She didn’t even know that I existed”). Those with well developed upper bodies, shoulders/chest/arms, eyes that stare straight ahead (lots of direct eye contact) may well have shields around their persona, considerable ego defences, project themselves as something that they may not necessarily be at their core and shows of their personal strength of will and personality (and may refer to terms such as “power” in their spoken language). Those with a low centre of gravity, wide hips, eyes that move downwards, larger bellies, may tend towards caring and nurturing roles, and might display passive/aggressive behaviour. Those with oval faces and larger eyes may also be attention seeking, but in a manner which suggests they are seeking those that might feed and care for them as opposed to reaffirming their existence. Those with sharply angled jawlines and eyes that stare straight on are likely to be very directed in their behaviour. I might post a more complete map on this subject when I get more information.

There are a number of very deep implications for this subject (for example, I once considerably helped someone with their depression by teaching them how to stand more upright and look upwards, breathing from a different location). I’ll leave you to consider that in more detail. I can give you resources to find out more via PM if you like (some of these resources are particularly expensive, and may well involve drafting a business case to an employer if you work in a field in which they might be useful. No-one needs unnecessary international travel plus training expenses if they can get away with it!). But none of this may help you in what you’re after, Ganesh. What’s more important (for now) is that you clarify what is really your goal.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
00:33 / 22.12.04
Speaking of clarifying what is really your goal, when you say "I worry that, to a certain extent, I now approach the world 'as a doctor'", it's not immediately clear what is the worry about doing so. Are we talking purely about the dangers of being locked in one worldview, or are there dangers about the Doctor role in specific that concern you?
 
 
Ganesh
21:58 / 22.12.04
Bleh. I suppose I avoid the Temple most of the time because the degree of self-examination is something I find quite exhausting. Which isn't to say it's a Bad Thing; not at all.

My "goal" in questioning my mode of thinking? I don't think I had a specific goal - not a conscious, explicit one, anyway. I guess I'd become aware that I approach certain questions/issues with a mindset derived from the 'doctor' point of view; that is, a predominantly rationalist, evidence-based position which includes a 'where does responsibility lie?' element. An example: when I read the Temple and someone talks about a particular communing-with-entities experience, I find myself asking - automatically - 'was this a drug-induced psychosis?'. I'm aware that this question comes with a whole lot of baggage (on the part of the questioner), and the baggage is what concerns me. I suppose I'm worried that I'm missing out, limiting myself because I've confined myself to one particular [Rage]reality tunnel[/Rage].

More later.
 
 
Ganesh
00:13 / 23.12.04
Which specific ways of thinking would you like to develop in addition to that of doctor, scientist and rationalist?

Erm, good question. Maybe I was always a rationalist; I'm not sure. Prior to going into Medicine, my 'A' subjects were English and Art & Design. I went into Medicine at least partly because I was pressured to do so by my parents (particularly my mother) and I think this has resulted in a peculiar... tension between me and what I do. All the way through my training I felt slightly fraudulent (compared to all the 'wanted to be a doctor since I was foetal' people around me) and, before each exam, I used to fantasise about other avenues, paths I could have travelled.

I suspect that, if I hadn't been attracted to Psychiatry, I'd have become disillusioned with Medicine pretty damn quickly. In a weird sort of way, I think the fact that I'm not a 'natural' medic actually makes me a better psychiatrist: I'm always aware that I relate better to patients and non-medical colleagues than I do to actual doctors - and they seem to relate well to me. I suspect this Arts/Sciences tension is partly why this stuff's troubling me now. I think of myself as an Arts person who has, through misadventure, become a player in a Science-based field. Which is weird.

All of which is waffle which doesn't really answer your question, Seth. I guess I'd like the psychological fluidity to think about - and, crucially, believe - a load of the stuff I read in the Temple, without necessarily subjecting it to 'doctory' filters. Some of this may be related to the fact that drugs seem pivotal to certain magical/shamanic experiences - and being a doctor has made me leery (or perhaps exacerbated my inherent leeriness) of using drugs. And I include prescribed drugs here...
 
 
Perfect Tommy
06:34 / 23.12.04
With respect to belief in Temple shenanigans, I'm pretty skeptical but I've cultivated the idea of experiences being useful even when they're not 'real' in the ordinary sense of the word. I pretty much get it from that bit in Sandman where it's pointed out that dreams and stories are not precisely made of matter, but they dramatically affect the world. So, I dunno, a shortcut might be to think, "Well, event X may or may not be drug-induced; did something interesting/useful come out of it?"

There was another thought I had: do you feel like you're getting enough art in your diet? I'm curious as to whether the Artist used to be a more important role that has in some way been supplanted by the Doctor.
 
 
Z. deScathach
10:54 / 23.12.04
I think there's another point to be made here. Just because you've taken on the role of "doctor" doesn't mean that it has to consume you. I have an acquaintence who is a psychiatrist who is quite comfortable with altered states of consciousness and the like. I've always been fascinated as to how he integrates those ideas into his role as psychiatrist. The one thing that he's related is that he is less likely to dismiss paranornal phenomena as pathology. He told me that his criteria for diagnosis isn't so much WHAT is happening, but what effect it's having on a person. A, "the mystic swims where the psychotic drowns", sort of approach.
 
 
Henningjohnathan
18:45 / 23.12.04
Yeah, the idea of reality, for me, has to include the imaginary as well. An idea is real even if it is not material. I've also found rationality is very limiting and reductionist since it excludes the irrational while the "real world" seems to have no problem accomodating the irrational. For me, it comes down to the idea that a "rationalist" viewpoint essentially discounts anything that cannot be proven to be true whereas there is plenty of truth in the world that can't be proven (isn't that essentially what Godel showed us in mathematics?).

However, I think that getting stuck in a paradigm is an activity and not something that just happens to anyone. Learning from experience is good BUT a lot of time people assume that they have an essentially passive role in the perception of these experiences when, in fact, we may all simply be editing out the parts of our lives that don't conform to our preconceptions.
 
 
Z. deScathach
19:54 / 23.12.04
However, I think that getting stuck in a paradigm is an activity and not something that just happens to anyone.

Hmm. I would respectfully disagree with this. I think that falling into paradigms is about the most natural thing in the world. It's the mind's way of ensuring stability, a sense of safety. We have an inate capacity to absorb ideas about things and then assume that they show us an accurate picture of what is. When someone is coming from an illogical perspective, if you tear down the logic of it, what you finally get to is the statement,"That's just how it is",(or you get into a fight). To me, that is a paradigm in operation. Paradigms give us a sense of security by convincing us that we are capable of ordering and controlling our world. They greatly restrict us, however. We all possess certain meta-programs to help us order our world. When you look at it, isn't even magick a paradigm? It causes us to agree with some of the assumptions of others, and to disagree with others.
 
 
Unconditional Love
21:10 / 23.12.04
i would like to add...

in the beginning it was formless and void. chaos not as a theory not as an abstract but as an actuality an experience beyond the language of expression beyond the comprehension of brains, is at least for me, the base reality, anything else is a temporary order built on shifting sands, i am not endorsing chaos magick. but chaos. as a root point, from the formless and void then can you begin to establish that pairadimes, your 2 cents for what you think its worth what you value, your comfort burrow of fluffy moist goodness,until of course the sands shift again, the new year is a very good time for falling into chaos and changing, alot of people are pushing in that direction all at once, hopes aspirations, altering habits, this is a time of year to uncement your head.
 
 
---
21:48 / 23.12.04
anything else is a temporary order built on shifting sands,

I pretty much agree with this. I never grasp at paradigms as much as I used to and one of my faults is that I'm often impatient for the next thing instead of settling with what I have. I suppose it's about being happy with what you have when it get's to that stage, and not projecting into the future at the expense of the present.

Of course when I started, my problem was breaking out of paradigms. The problem I found was starting out trying to alter mine, but I soon found a way and now the only confusion is what tools to use, there are just so many. This isn't even including drugs either. (obviously experienced occultists know this, I'm just mentioning it for Ganesh if he's wary of going down that route.) Although I did often find that pot (which is hardly anything for most to worry about) would help my mind to be more fluid when clearing out the old mindset/breaking down the inertia/laying foundations for the new one.

Fiction, occult books and music would often be the things to inspire me with this and still are to an extent, but it's great right now as I come across more and more different techniques to help change paradigms as I go on. Discovering Magickal rituals/meditational techniques/mantras etc.

Sometimes all it takes is a walk around outside (that's not mainly focused on going to the shops or whatever. Something like going out for the fresh air, and to clear my head), a symbol or a map of consciousness to start inspiring me towards the next paradigm however, which is amazing because it brings home just how simple it can be to be inspired towards changing my minset/paradigm again and move on before things start getting stale. (thanks to LVX23's blog for leading me to Vortex Egg's consciousness map aswell.)
 
 
Perfect Tommy
07:38 / 24.12.04
When someone is coming from an illogical perspective, if you tear down the logic of it, what you finally get to is the statement,"That's just how it is",(or you get into a fight).

Actually, I think that happens even when someone is coming from a logical perspective. You've got to hit an assumption somewhere; if two people are debating war, you might boil all down to "Thou shalt not kill" vs. "The tree of liberty must be periodically watered with the blood of tyrants," and then you pretty much have to change the subject.
 
 
illmatic
13:12 / 24.12.04
I suppose I avoid the Temple most of the time because the degree of self-examination is something I find quite exhausting

If only this was the only reason for avoiding the Temple.

I guess I'd like the psychological fluidity to think about - and, crucially, believe - a load of the stuff I read in the Temple, without necessarily subjecting it to 'doctory' filters.

Well, I wonder if this perspective only comes about from a long period of engagement? I'm not surprised that you have some kind of reservations seeing as Temple-type concerns are (I'm assuming) peripheral to your life and the "Doctor" set of thinking occupies a much more central role. Speaking for myself, I only came to believe in this odd stuff after a long period of thinking, fascination and practice by which time it had begun to occupy a pretty central role in my thinking. I'm sure a lot of other posters here would say the same - that belief only comes after experience, and if you haven't sought out these kind of experiences (or, from a skeptical point of view deliberately deluded yourself) then that kind of certainty will be lacking.

Anoher point is that there is a very close comparison between a lot of psychotic episodes and magickal experience. I'm not for a second surprised you see huge similarities - here, I think Tommy's points about usefulness are spot on - has that experience of possibly psychotic origin helped or hindered that person? Has (lets say for the sake of arguement) talking to a spirit contributed to that persons long term health and well being? Has it answered questions, cured them in any sense, helped them deal with change? If yes, I would say that you've got a useful experience wheter or not it's "real".
 
 
Ganesh
01:26 / 22.11.05
Bumping this thread as a sort of reminder-to-self to come back to it over the next day or two. Considering the time and effort people put into their responses, I always meant to engage with them a little more. I've actually been thinking about this a fair bit, for a number of reasons, and am sending it a-winging back to the front page, so I remember to pull everything together and properly reply/update.
 
 
Char Aina
01:54 / 22.11.05
please do come back to it.

i have a doctor friend who is at a junction in his life, trying to decide what weight of effort to give his musical and his scientific sides and i know he would find the discussion of use.



(
he is considering psychiatry, as it happens.
it seems from his experience that many psychiatrists dont fit the 'normal' doctor mould... would you say that this is the case from your observations?
)
 
 
Unconditional Love
04:35 / 22.11.05
Always at the beginning with every start, begin in the sameway as before? upon waking begin beginning.

thus spoke yodathustra.
 
 
illmatic
09:04 / 22.11.05
have a doctor friend who is at a junction in his life, trying to decide what weight of effort to give his musical and his scientific side

Does he want a divination done? Hah!
 
 
Ganesh
09:50 / 22.11.05
Oookay.

It's interesting for me to come back to this thread almost a year later, because it's possible to put it in a certain kind of context. In fact, in some ways it fits a pattern I've always had, of responding to particularly stressful or challenging times in my career by reviewing all the 'roads less travelled' along which I could have gone, and distantly wondering whether the parallel universe mes are having a better time of it. And, I suppose, at some level preserving the fantasy escape-route of giving it all up tomorrow, going off and doing something less boring instead.

I had these spells before every exam in medical school, and before every interview since then. To some extent, I think they're pretty common (I had a flatmate who'd been an excellent semi-professional golfer prior to entering medical school, and before every exam, he used to be haunted by 'what if I went pro' preoccupations). Last December, I was acclimatising to a pretty major career-shift, in terms of the buck stopping with me, and being viewed unequivocally as Teh Bad Cop (something else I have problems with, but that's another thread). We were also licking our wounds after a painfully protracted flat purchase had fallen through, leaving us begging our landlord to allow us to continue renting with him.

So things were difficult, and when things are difficult, I tend to review my options. Starting this thread was, I suspect, partly related to that.

All of which in no way diminishes the validity or usefulness of the comments received. In fact, it's probably more useful for me to look at how this escape-the-paradigm thing has fluctuated between then and now (when I've acclimatised to the new position a little, and largely settled into a new, better flat), and consider whether I should be taking your advice now, when things don't feel as urgent or desperate.

I've thought a lot about the 'doctor' paradigm, and have come to the conclusion that it's actually a continuum of related paradigms, and even within a specifically 'psychiatric' persona/mindset, there's actually quite a bit of psychological flexibility/fluidity. It's perfectly possible to have undergone training in the way the human mind operates and still believe in magic. To a certain extent, I already do follow Perfect Tommy's rule of thumb re: judging beliefs or practices by how interesting or useful they are. Just the other week, a patient told me how he'd successfully contacted an angel in order to pay his gas bill, and expressed surprise that that didn't bother me as a psychiatrist (I think he was telling me partly because he wanted a reaction). It didn't, and that's partly because I'm a regular lurker in the Temple: reading about people's experiences here has helped me differentiate between phenomena likely to reflect an illness process and phenomena unlikely to reflect an illness process.

The thing I still find myself largely unable to do is apply such belief-sets to myself - but, increasingly, I'm suspecting that this might be because my interest in Templey stuff is a bit dilettanteish, that I'm insufficiently exercised (most of the time) to really put in the work. At times of career stress, magic and the like become more attractive to me as a potential (paradigmatic) escape route, a way of reassuring myself that There Are Other Ways To Do It, but most of the time my involvement is fairly pick 'n' mix. Sooo, being as honest as possible, I think 90odd% of the time I probably don't want to change my circumstances - and even the remainder, it's likely that I'm more seduced/reassured by the possibility of taking a different route, or looking at the world through a different set of filters.

(Oh dear. Reading back that last paragraph, it sounds a little like I'm saying of my previous angst 'it was a JOKE!!1!!!'. It wasn't - although in retrospect, my posting about it here was probably more about me trying to comfort myself than anything else.)

The element I'm probably more consistently interested in exploring, I think, is altered states. I think that's partly what draws me to the Temple. (Most of the time,) I love getting temporarily lost in drunkenness, dancing, sex, bondage-play, and I'm intrigued by the descriptions I read of posters experimenting with trance states, lucid dreaming, meditation, and so on. I'm fascinated by these different forms of 'time out of time', and wonder, sometimes, whether my medical training served to pull me away from exploring these as I might have liked. There's an overlap here, obviously, with my previous stuck-in-a-paradigm worry, because it's fair to say that being a doctor makes it difficult for one to experiment with some of the more, ah, psychotropic altered states - without the ever-attendant risk of becoming psychotic, losing one's job, getting struck off, etc. Also, it strikes me that some altered states might be contingent on certain belief-sets eg. if I don't believe in angels, I'm unlikely to ever be in the position of seeing one (much less having one pay my gas bill). Of course, this all might just be another way of me wanting flash-bang-wow results without putting in the effort...

Bleh. Could say more, but need a break from my navel.
 
 
Ganesh
10:42 / 22.11.05
it seems from his experience that many psychiatrists dont fit the 'normal' doctor mould... would you say that this is the case from your observations?

Very broadly speaking, yes. In many ways, it's the least doctory type of doctoring - we don't wear white coats, we don't routinely physically examine people, etc. - and I think individuals are drawn to psychiatry for reasons more varied and complex than simply "I want to help people" (I think the same is true for medicine generally, but psychiatrists are better at admitting it). As a speciality, it allows a fair amount of room for individual interpretation and bringing one's own personality to bear.

It's probably even more true for psychiatric nurses: in my experience, they've tended to gravitate into psychiatry for all sorts of interesting reasons. I'd say a greater proportion of psychiatric nurses have done other things (outwith nursing, I mean), have have interesting relationships/sexualities, and have done interesting drugs than their general nursing counterparts.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
10:50 / 22.11.05
Hurrumph.

I don't believe in angels...well, I didn't...it was you, in fact, who started the 'do you believe in God, or Allah, or whatever' thread in which I obnoxiously exercised my rationalist poo-poo-ing of the whole notion. Angels! Feh! I used to literally shout at my sister-in-law over her beliefs...(interestingly enough, I have found that this is not an uncommon reaction to discussion thereof...)...What. Nonsense.

That was then. Now is, as ever, now. Lots of water under the bridge since. I guess 'keeping' an open mind' is the Golden Rule, if there is going to be one. Which includes reserving at least an element of doubt for any currently held conclusions and paradigms...
 
 
Ganesh
10:56 / 22.11.05
I guess 'keeping' an open mind' is the Golden Rule, if there is going to be one. Which includes reserving at least an element of doubt for any currently held conclusions and paradigms...

Well, yes, that's true - but there's keeping an open mind and there's keeping an actively open belief-system. That element of doubt can often get in the way of the latter. There's genuinely believing in stuff, and there's genuinely wanting to believe in it, the one being trickier than the other.

I suppose it depends how much belief is reckoned to be acceptable or useful - whether it's necessary to abandon the element of doubt altogether in order to truly believe something, or whether it's sufficient to believe in something 40% or 60%, or (and this is what I'd really like to be able to do) believe wholeheartedly in it for that moment.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
11:17 / 22.11.05
That's well put, I'd say...the utility of a paradigm or explanation / belief system / reality tunnel being contingent on circumstance / environment / ritual or whatever.

Is it necessary to 'believe' a paradigm for it to be a part of your lexicon of reality? (wtf did I just say?)
 
 
illmatic
11:23 / 22.11.05
To be honest, ’nesh, there’s no reason that exploring lucid dreaming or meditation – or most Templish practises at “entry level” - would take any more time out of your routine than any other new interest. It justdepends on how much you wantto, is all....
 
 
Ganesh
11:29 / 22.11.05
To be honest, ’nesh, there’s no reason that exploring lucid dreaming or meditation – or most Templish practises at “entry level” - would take any more time out of your routine than any other new interest. It justdepends on how much you wantto, is all....

That's entirely fair comment. I suppose I don't want to enough, or I'd be making time to try these things out, and practising, as with any new skill. Which, as it happens, is exactly what I tell patients who complain the relaxation techniques/breathing exercises aren't instantly working.

Pah.
 
 
Ganesh
11:33 / 22.11.05
Which, actually, now I think about, probably isn't a bad analogy for new paradigms: as with any skill, one probably has to practise believing before one can expect results.

All a bit Sat In Your Lap...
 
  

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