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What do you want?

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13:58 / 23.03.06

Hmm. That does actually sound an awful lot like the processes of magic, or an aspect of them, to me. From a certain perspective, you could say that magic is the science of creating and interacting with self-fulfilling prophecies, and exploring the limits and parameters of this sort of phenomena. Creating a belief in something to the extent that it becomes real. A slippery area to try and pin down though.

15:05 / 23.03.06

Scientist: An experiment for you. Buy a copy of Richard Wilhelm's translation of the I Ching, and use it every time you feel appropriate for a minimum of 6 months. Keep a diary of your readings and note how accurate they seem to be. Work at the intpretations (feel free to PM if you need help with this). You might begin by asking how to best approach it, or about your skepticism!

It might not work for you, I don't know. But it would be an interesting experiment. I don't know if you can say you would then be an unbiased observer, as the criticism that is always fired at this sort of thing is "aha! You are just making sense of random patterns!". Strangley accurate random patterns, I tend to find. I don't know if this meets your request as when you start to try and actively interpret perhaps you're out the realms of the quantifable and into the qualitive. However, if you do do this, I suspect that you'll get a sense of what magick feels like from the other side.

15:21 / 23.03.06

It's funny. Life is so full of infinite unknowns, infinite causes, seemingly incomprehensible events and inexplicable variables that I often find it quite healthy to look at living itself as an act of divination. In that context looking to an apparently random divination system for guidance seems like a fairly rational act of chasing that to its logical conclusion, so I concur with Illmatic that a relationship with the I-Ching over time can be bizarrely rewarding. Highly recommended.

18:01 / 23.03.06

If anyone else is interested or if you want to start right away there's an online version of Wilhelm there. As for the howto manual, there is an outstanding page at Joel Birocco site. Then, you'll just need two coins.

I agree with all, the I Ching will probably blow your socks off. Ask it meta questions, as Illmatic suggest, you'll be surprised. (Try asking it what it is).

18:16 / 23.03.06

Three coins, I believe!

Biroco's site is indeed outstanding. The book is worth getting though for extended persusal.

18:32 / 23.03.06

Three coins, I believe!

(Does it show that I never, ever consulted the 'I' with something else than a computer?

)

04:07 / 24.03.06

I actually don't rate the only computerised version I've ever used. It cut out some of the complexity.

05:42 / 24.03.06

Saw some that did too.

Just how difficult is it to simply name and represent the two hexagrams and give the changing lines...

08:21 / 27.03.06

Scientist: An experiment for you. Buy a copy of Richard Wilhelm's translation of the I Ching, and use it every time you feel appropriate for a minimum of 6 months.

I'll give it a try. What can it hurt?

10:15 / 27.03.06

It's hurt my ego a few times. But only when I was being a dick.

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

08:51 / 28.03.06

Scientist : Echoing what GL said, the definition of self-fulfilling prophecy contains the seeds of much 'magic' work, really : what is an affirmation, after all? You imagine a future you desire, store and cultivate the intent, and alter your behavious, beliefs and activities to make it manifest.

This, in many ways, is the magic of existence : step back and consider the sytem you are conscious within - your thoughts happen. If you think of it, with enough intent, it happens. Land on the moon? Done. Manned mission to Mars? Do able. Quit smoking? Done. Paralyzed legs, learn to walk again. Ask, and it shall be given. Self. Fulfilling. Prophecy.

Funny how refutations of phenomena can be affirmations from another perspective isn't it?

Jim Carrey writing that cheque for $1 million dollars, and then cashing it 3 years later...self fulfilling prophecy? 'Magic'? Luck, coincidence? Intent. Imagination and intent.

Agree with the I Ching suggestion.

Highly recoomend Stephen Karchers 'Total I Ching' as well as a more trad version, which is Daoist magic, not Confucian commentary. Incredibly potent symbolism and wisdom, thorough explanation of the spiritual aspects of I Ching divination, incredible results.

09:59 / 28.03.06

You imagine a future you desire, store and cultivate the intent, and alter your behavious, beliefs and activities to make it manifest.

Another view is that you scry/sigilise/whatever for something happen, then you're constantly on the lookout for anything even remotely resembling what you predicted/asked for. It's not necessarily even a concious act.

Tell someone they're going to have a lucky day and suddenly they're on the lookout for anything they would consider lucky. That they percieve something to be lucky does not automatically mean that the simple act of "blessing" them bent probability their way.

Or maybe it does, but Occam's Razor suggests not to a materialist such as myself.

11:33 / 28.03.06

Personally, I never believed much in Occam's Razor. Specially where self-aware being are involved. Not very scientific of me, I admit.

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