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What do you want?

 
  

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Gypsy Lantern
13:08 / 05.11.04
So why are you posting here? What do you expect to accomplish with all of this magic and spirituality bullshit? What the fuck are you playing at? Where do you think it's leading? What do you expect to get from it? Do you practice something that you call magic? Why are you persisting with it? Are you trying to prove something to yourself? Have you already proven something to your own satisfaction? If so, where do you now intend to take it? Are you here for the long haul? Where do you see yourself being, as a magician, in 20 or 50 years? What are your goals? Do you believe that your actions as a magician further those goals in any tangible sense? Can you point to anything concrete in support of that belief? Do you believe that magic, and related subjects discussed in this forum, have a role to play in nudging the world towards a brighter future than the one we seem to be rapidly heading towards? What do you think that role might be? How do you think it might play out? What are the small steps? What are the long term goals? What do you want to happen? What are you going to do about it?
 
 
Sekhmet
13:51 / 05.11.04
I'm going to assume you're not just blowing off steam and that none of these are rhetorical questions.

I am posting here, despite the fact that I often feel entirely unqualified, inadequate and overwhelmed by this place, because I'm trying to learn. I'm new to magic, new to the counterculture, unsure of what I should be doing and trying to figure that out. I'm hoping that interacting with people who are actually out there practicing and living this paradigm might expose me to more ideas and be more inspiring than sitting in my study highlighting lines in Silver Ravenwolf books.

I came here initially, as I'm sure many have, because I read the Invisibles and something happened to my head. Something clicked that had been a long time coming, that I'd glimpsed in snippets and snatches during mushroom trips and while playing at witchcraft. Before the Invisibles, I had never read Crowley or Wilson or Leary or Hakim Bey or H.P. frikkin' Lovecraft. After the Invisibles I read them, and said "OH!" a lot, and then I read the Invisibles again. I re-read Huxley and Philip K. Dick and Heinlein and said "OH!" a lot, and then I read the Invisibles again. I read up on quantum physics and anthropology and string theory and the prophecies of two dozen cultures, and said "OH!" a lot. And then I read the Invisibles again.

Then I decided it was time to stop reading so much and start doing something. And then I found Barbelith.

Mainly, I'm here because I'm trying to find out what the fuck is going on. I know now that reality changes depending on how you look at it. I've read this, I've seen it demonstrated, and I've had it happen to me. If magic works, and at this point I'm fair convinced that it does, it means there's a whole level or levels of reality beyond what most people ever see or experience. I want to know what it is, why it's there, how it works, and why most people don't ever see or experience it. I want to find out what can be done with it, and more specifically what, if anything, I can do with it.

Looking around at the world, I feel that somebody, somewhere, really needs to do something to change it. If magic is a tool for change - if magic is change - then it bears serious investigation. So I'm investigating.

I'm here as an apprentice trying to learn how to swing a hammer and use a miter saw before I try to design and build a new reality.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
14:16 / 05.11.04
I'm here basically out of an early mid life crisis. I have always danced on the fringe of related subjects, such as hypnosis, NLP, Pyschology (usually the more outlandish and underground stuff such as Reichian theories etc)

I cannot claim any real WOW experiences with Magick but I have only really tentatively dipped my toes in, as I am far too cowardly and would probably shit myself with fright if some ritual produced a noise or appearance


I suppose I am little more than an armchair magician.....Sigils and the odd ritual are all I have delved into and these have been mostly aimed at getting me past some personality quirks and obsessions that I have. Psychologists didn't do the trick and were getting expensive ans I have been attempting to change my life for the better via other means.
I'm inherently lazy and as I said a coward so I have only taken baby steps to date and the results have been far from impressive but I read with interest all the fantastic claims on here and as such, still have a glimmer of hope

I do like helping others, I like the warm glow it gives me and a couple of the Sigils I have cast have been for health of others etc. I am always a little wary of doing this as I fear how a badly worded Sigil or magickal intervention might impact negatively, if I am not careful (again my over cautious nature comes to the fore)

So in a nutshell....I dabble but can hardly be called a Magician or even a Magickal practitioner, especially compared with others on here....in fact Gypsey, (and I hope I am not being too fawning here) your level of knowledge has always impressed me and I would be interested to hear what motivates you. I suspect you are a very altruistic person as are many of the others on here who have shown me nothing but kindness to date
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
15:01 / 05.11.04
Thanks for the responses. If you don't mind being quizzed further: Sehkmet, you just said you wanted to know what could be done, and more specifically what could be done by you. I'd like to know what you want it to do. What does being a successful magician mean to people that post here? Where would you like it to put you? What would you like it to do for you? What are you looking to get out of it? Why are you in the game?

I suppose, in addition to all of that, my question is also: What do you want to get out of the Temple forum? Is it adequately fulfilling what you want from it? Why do you find it intimidating? Would you prefer it to be less intimidating? Have you ever been too intimidated start a topic? What was the topic? What would you like to see more of here? What would you like to see less of? What sort of threads do you find exciting? What sort of threads make you cringe? If you're here to learn more about magic, is that learning process taking place in as productive and effective manner as possible? What do you want to learn about? How do you think other posters might better facilitate this learning process? Could the temple forum be better? What could be done to make it better?

Consider this thread a location for brainstorming what we want. What we want from magic, what we want from this corner of barbelith, and from the perspective of the magicians and prospective magicians that post and lurk here, what do we want from the future. What do you want?

I would be interested to hear what motivates you. I suspect you are a very altruistic person

Nah, I'm only in it for the money, cash, ho's.
 
 
Aertho
15:16 / 05.11.04
So why are you posting here?
Temple's more authentic than Headshop. I can freely post my opinions and beliefs and hear others' as well without there being a right and a wrong. The task is honesty about experience, and thus beauty through perception(s).

What do you expect to accomplish with all of this magic and spirituality bullshit?
Grace. I want to be able to feel and focus my emotions into and around my rationale. No fighting inside to spill outside.

What the fuck are you playing at?
I suppose I COULD be acting, trying to be all-spiritual-or-whatever, but trying to cut into my selves isn't going to get us anywhere. I'm here to help and learn. Suppose there are self-deceptive layers, it wouldn't make a real difference. I'm still here to help and learn.

Where do you think it's leading?
2012, baby! Fever Pitch Party at the Winepress!

What do you expect to get from it?
Understanding, Inspiration and Peace.

Do you practice something that you call magic?
Not really. I mostly just try to notice the magic everywhere around me. No rituals beyond the family feast and morning mantras.

Why are you persisting with it?
It works for me, and describes an incredibly large and sound worldview.

Are you trying to prove something to yourself?
I think so, yes. I'm naturally quite competitive, and it's natural evolution for me to acquire a better -(spiritual)-self-than-others

Have you already proven something to your own satisfaction?
Yup. Still growing strong.

If so, where do you now intend to take it?
I feel there's definite need in the world, and working on the ONLY intrapersonal level isn't doing the work. I plan to take my will into political organizations, and try to take back my church.

Are you here for the long haul?
Maybe. I'd like to think I'll keep growing, but I may die tomorrow

Where do you see yourself being, as a magician, in 20 or 50 years?
Hopefully a father, and involved in my children's spiritual growth. I'd like to be involved with their education systems, as well as helping with Sunday School -teaching Greek myth.

What are your goals?
Lift 200 by next Christmas, and to do that, I have to eliminate some of the things in my way and discipline myself better.

Do you believe that your actions as a magician further those goals in any tangible sense?
Sure. It's like oxygen now, anyway.

Can you point to anything concrete in support of that belief?
Nope.

Do you believe that magic, and related subjects discussed in this forum, have a role to play in nudging the world towards a brighter future than the one we seem to be rapidly heading towards?
Yes.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
15:16 / 05.11.04



shit I am definately doing something wrong then!
I'm skint.......am too reliant on drink and gamble like a chinese sailor

but there are negatives as well!

I never specifically answered you before, though I am sure that you could tell from the rubbish I wrote.
My interest is to get some control over my life that my various neuroses and maladaptive thought patterns make so difficult

Peace of mind, pure and simple

I have never been a happy person and as I approach mid life, it is only getting worse

on that cheery note....I will sign off


great post btw
 
 
Dances with Gophers
15:23 / 05.11.04
Hi Gypsy
I remember at the age of about 5 getting a Paul Daniels Magic set for christmas, setting it out in a circle around me and was dissapointed that nothing happened.
I suppose I've always looked for the mystical side of things. Only problem is I rarely know what I'm looking for which is probably why I'm always vague when asked.
I got to Barbelith due to researching Hawksmoor. Generally I'm looking for inspiration, which the lith often provides.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:38 / 05.11.04
Temple's more authentic than Headshop.

That is the most ringing endorsement of the Head Shop I've heard this week. Marvellous.
 
 
gale
15:40 / 05.11.04
I really enjoy learning about different perspectives. The threads I value most are those that ask for people's experiences working with various tools, traditions, or methods. Gee I guess that's about all of them!

I have a learned a lot since I joined Barbelith, and have included things in my practice that I either left a long time ago or never tried out. In addition, it's great to have a group you can trust to help you out when you need it. Not to mention some extremely provocative (and I mean that in the most positive sense) posters.

After the events of this week, I need a dose of reality and am off to a Dr. Who convention. It's about time, too!
 
 
Sekhmet
15:41 / 05.11.04
If I answered every single one of these questions fully and specifically, I could then bop over to the Creation and submit it to the one-month-novel-writing contest...

In passing, though, Gypsy, thank you for asking; it provides both reason and opportunity to reflect on the motivations for and deeper implications of this study. Clarification of our goals in the Temple is probably overdue.

Lengthy post when I gather my thoughts.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:46 / 05.11.04
for me its about overcoming all my fears and being able to look in the mirror without thinking or saying a word.
 
 
iamus
16:56 / 05.11.04
Magic to me is a means of engaging more fully with the creative forces around us. Whether this is acheived through specific "magickal" practice such as ritual, etc. or just through a better understanding of the forces which shape our environment and make us do what we do doesn't matter.

I don't consider myself a magician, to me that term is loaded. I consider myself a human plain and simple. Yet one of the great things that typifies us as human beings is that we have the ablility to conciously, creatively engage the world around us, which I see as a fundamental underpinning of magical practice. I'm getting increasingly dissillusioned with the terms magic and magician as I think their usage seperates something from the day to day processes of being human that should not really be seperated.

I am in the Temple to learn too. I'm here to listen to and engage anyone I can to build up a more coherent view and to increase empathy with other people's headspaces wherever possible. There are many people here who have a far better grasp of the subject than I do. Without fellating your ego too much, Gypsy, I echo Joetheneophyte's statement about your level of knowledge and ability to talk sense and cut through bullshit. In all honesty, your posts are one of the main reasons I find the forum so interesting. Generally, I like the temple because it has a far more sensible and progressive attitude than most other "cloak and pentagram" poseur magical discussion forums, but this is beacuse of all its contributers, not just the one. I feel the Temple as a whole attracts a far more interesting and sensible group of people than most others.

I think that the part magic has to play in nudging the world forward is to spread a certain way of thinking. This mindset may not be magic per se but is higly conducive to it. Like I say above, it's a reconnection with what it means to be human in a way that current Civilisation doesn't fully understand.

My goal is to help spread this way of thinking. Whether this makes me a more accomplished magician I don't know, but as I said, magician is a term I am uncomfortable defining.
 
 
charrellz
18:25 / 05.11.04
I'm here to grow, to learn from others with a different background and more experience. I'm also here because I need someone who understands what the hell I'm babbling on about when I can't figure something out. I'm here to see where the community is going.

Why do I use magick? Why do many people not use it? Why shouldn't I utilize an integral part of existence and reality?
Why do I use magick? So I can understand it, myself, and my world.


How do you think other posters might better facilitate this learning process?
Hmm... BarbeTutors?
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
19:28 / 05.11.04
Why am I here? Because a friend told me where Barbelith was and it's cool to talk to other occult-types who don't jabber on for an hour and a half about Wicca and how I'm being misled by my own hubris....also because most of the people here can hold a decent conversation. I really value people who are good conversationalists.

What do I hope to gain out of magic? Enlightenment, Ascension, Nirvana...whatever you want to call it. I don't expect to suddenly vanish in a puff of smoke, but I think...

...well, honestly? Magic is a misnomer because you can call it whatever the hell you want. Its changing the world, pure and simple, even if the world is yourself. Some people find religion to improve themselves, some people do martial arts. I study my own weird little brand of chaos magic and pseudo-ficto-shamanism because I think that by doing so I understand the world better, and understand myself better.

As for proving...I've proven the existance of magic to my own satisfaction. I've walked in a city and felt its pulse. I've felt spirits, or faeries, or whatever, take over a place for the night and keep people out. I've called power, I've felt friends call power, and we once called power against each other, pushing at each other...and we felt it.

Am I in it for the long haul? I've known it was there, called it by one word or another, tried to use it with one style or another, for over a decade. I'd definitly say I'm in it for the long haul. And I think that's the point, you have to be in it for the long haul to get anything out of it. It's not a "I invoke this, burn this...poof, I'm cool, now back to beer and pretzels". I think, like any discipline, to get anywhere with it you have to keep at it. That doesn't nessecarily mean studying moldering grimoirs (god I wish I had some moldering grimoires, they'd just look so damn cool under glass...what? I like old nice things), hell you can study it, I think, by watching leaves in the wind, watching squirrels fight over a nut, or just watching the clouds. But you have to stick with it.

I think magic is going to have a role to play in the world. Things are changing. More people are coming to it, in one form or another, than every before. Most won't stick with it, but those that do will come out all the better for it. And I think those people are going to go through the spiritual evolution I mentioned, they're going to come to a greater understanding of the world and of themselves, and how to change the world, whether that's by spell or by sword, by word or by deed. You can't change the world without being changed yourself, and you can't understand the world without gaining an understanding of yourself.

What is my brighter future? Hard to describe. On one hand I come off sounding like a hippy or a nutcase when I talk about the innate value of human life, not in terms of religion or laws, as a simple fact. In some cases I come off sounding like I've read too many superhero comics when I talk about a world where the guilty are punished, and where they can't hide behind laws or further crimes to escape it, and where the victims recieve justice. And then I sound like an anarchist when I go on and on about how the world so many of the current world problems come from putting a value to human life and the world around us.

Where do I think I fit in all this? I don't know. I don't think I CAN know, because I don't know what the future holds. The best I can do is try. I think that's all that any of us can do.
 
 
Sekhmet
19:52 / 05.11.04
I keep trying to tackle this and it keeps turning into an extended philosophical treatise about the meaning of life. Let me try again.

I think the best way to sum up is that I see magic as a)a fascinating discipline worthy of study in its own right, merely for the sake of knowledge, and b)a creative tool which can be used to help further my life goals. It's both a science and an art, with practical applications.

I'm here to learn and to be challenged. The Temple, and Barbelith at large, regularly confronts me with new ideas and differing viewpoints, and forces me to reassess what I formerly accepted as given. Sometimes the confrontation is intimidating, and sometimes the reality checks are scary, but it's what I think this place is about. It's someplace to go with questions, and (usually) get varied, thoughtful and useful answers. New ideas crop up daily, new subjects to discuss, new approaches to old problems. Granted that the varied viewpoints and interests which are represented here also result in plenty of threads that don't appeal to me at all, but every day I encounter something that startles me and makes me think.

By and large, I'd say that the Temple meets my needs and expectations, in its chaotic way. Everyone is free to start threads, post their thoughts, when and where they like, which is both the strength and weakness of Barbelith. Free exchange, ideas mixing and melding. Some of it's gold, some of it's crap. You just have to sort through it all.


I actually think, Charrelz, that "BarbeTutors" isn't a bad idea... Neonates could specifically enlist someone more experienced to give advice and answer questions. Perhaps people could volunteer to tutor individuals over PM.

Most of the threads we have are formatted as "Tell Me About X" or "Let's Discuss Y". I think that's fine up to a point, but the new kids may have trouble formulating their thoughts on subjects they have no knowledge of and be intimidated into lurking. Perhaps we could have more "Ask Me About X" Q&A threads, charied by people with a level of expertise in a given subject... Or, at the risk of being too formal, we could have a lecture series where individuals make extended presentations, and then take questions from the audience. There might be a request thread for "students" to suggest topics they'd like to learn more about, and "teachers" could volunteer to cover them.

Or, if anyone has the time or inclination, they could teach an entire Barbe-course. One lecture a week on a given subject, to really cover it in depth.

We could have an occult book club. Reading a chapter a week, with online discussions. I think someone tried this with Quantum Psychology a while back.

The Barbelith Temple School of Magic and Occult Arts...
 
 
---
20:24 / 05.11.04
The Barbelith Temple School of Magic and Occult Arts...

Or The Invisible Temple. Seeing as it's actually invisible. As for Barbtutors I'm only playing if I can have Gypsy Lantern one day and LVX23 the other. Don't even THINK about making me pick!

I'm here to see whats going on with Magick/Whatever you want to call it, from day to day, to learn, see how you people are going, get reminders about what I'm forgetting, and to get back home. Great thread GL, you've had my mind digging for some of the answers to your questions for quite a while over the last few hours and I'll be back later to add if I come up with anything of worth to one of more of your other questions.
 
 
Aertho
21:19 / 05.11.04
Temple's more authentic than Headshop.

That is the most ringing endorsement of the Head Shop I've heard this week. Marvellous.


I doubt you understand my meaning, and I apologize for the lack of clarity. Head Shop is HIGHLY intellectual, and to engage in that forum, you're almost expected to have a library attached to your hip. And even then, you're not asked to contend YOUR OWN thoughts, but the work of professionals and your own experiences. I tend to read them more than engage. It much more analytical than cohesive —whereas, in Temple, it's nearly ALL cohesion. It demands you to open up to your weaknesses and spit them out. Analyze yourself, and then be cohesive about putting yourself back together in historical context.
 
 
vajramukti
21:37 / 05.11.04


because I realised one day, that the self i had learned was not the self i wanted.

because i realised that no one else was going to create the world i wanted to live in.

because i got tired of hearing that things were 'impossible'

because i got tired of still hearing it after i proved them wrong

because i've seen people crushed into robotic charicatures by a life full of crap answers.

because i've seen people destroy themselves, their loved ones and everything they accomplished in their lives, because of those crap answers

because i grew up reading about superheroes, and even now, that still seems like a healthier, happier, more creative and loving world than the one we're supposed to live in right now.

because the difference between what can be done and what is actually done is so vast it makes me sick to my stomach.

because i'd like to someday be a better parent and teacher than my parents and my first teachers.

because in the cosmic scheme of things, nothing makes any difference, and so everything makes all the difference

because it would hurt too much to do anything else

because when you've really given your heart and soul to the light, you instantly know you've done the right thing
 
 
Unconditional Love
21:55 / 05.11.04
So why are you posting here?~

cause i like getting ripped limb from limb.

What do you expect to accomplish with all of this magic and spirituality bullshit?~

a definite overcoming of fear and taboo, some material wealth, a whole lot of pleasure, and bliss.

What the fuck are you playing at?~

alot.

Where do you think it's leading?~

towards more pleasure , wealth and bliss.

What do you expect to get from it?~

wealth and an extreme buzz.

Do you practice something that you call magic?~

yeah.

Why are you persisting with it?~

it feels great, stick with the bliss idea.

Are you trying to prove something to yourself?~

yeah that i can be less afraid.

Have you already proven something to your own satisfaction?~

yep.

If so, where do you now intend to take it?~

as far as it stretches.

Are you here for the long haul?~

yeah.

Where do you see yourself being, as a magician, in 20 or 50 years?~

comfortable, less scared.

What are your goals?~

more bliss and a comfortable life.

Do you believe that your actions as a magician further those goals in any tangible sense?~

yep.

Can you point to anything concrete in support of that belief?~

i am alot happier than before i started practicing, its a concrete mental state, conversely i have alot less material wealth, but in return ive gained alot of personal wealth.

Do you believe that magic, and related subjects discussed in this forum, have a role to play in nudging the world towards a brighter future than the one we seem to be rapidly heading towards?~

they could do when employed for that purpose but they could also be employed for there opposite.

What do you think that role might be?~

to revitalise areas of life and humans that are dying as there external elements are destroyed.

How do you think it might play out?~

thats down to us as a species, wether we learn to love or hate our innate nature.

What are the small steps?~

learning to bend the rules of somebody elses game.

What are the long term goals?~

freedom and a world without so much fear.

What do you want to happen?~

peace.

What are you going to do about it?~

live as peacefully as i can in as much freedom as i can without fear if i can, gaining wealth pleasure and bliss.

on a more functional basis swapping kung fu for yoga, as the instructor is better looking, and i am the only bloke in the class. and this most definately brings me much bliss and pleasure, and hopefully a wealth of experience.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:56 / 05.11.04
So why are you posting here?
I like answering questions.

What do you expect to accomplish with all of this magic and spirituality bullshit?
Absolutely nothing. All of the clear aims I've attempted to have in ten years have been redirected by actual practice. It's taught me not to try to accomplish but to let things simply happen as they have a will too, I sound like a hippy but I'm not.

Where do you think it's leading?
I don't know. I never have, I never sought this out, it came to me.

Do you practice something that you call magic?
I suppose so, though I always feel a little uncomfortable with the word, it doesn't really mean anything tangible to me, I'm not sure what exactly it's meant to represent. I don't know if it fits what I do- I feel more like a part of some obscure religion a lot of the time.

Why are you persisting with it?
The problem might be that I'm not. I don't so much have it persist as it sits at the back of my mind prodding away until it gets so annoying I have to respond.

Are you trying to prove something to yourself?
Not through this!

Are you here for the long haul?
Probably, I don't think I'll ever stop- maybe pause sometimes but it keeps reasserting itself.

Where do you see yourself being, as a magician, in 20 or 50 years?
In the same place as I am now but perhaps slightly easier conversation with some newer friends. I've never really noticed when my position has changed until a little while afterwards- every few years I notice it's completely overhauled.

What are your goals?
To be mostly happy. To work.

Do you believe that your actions as a magician further those goals in any tangible sense?
I suppose so as much as magic is a part of my life that can sometimes cheer me up. It's not helping me get a job and I don't expect it to.

Can you point to anything concrete in support of that belief?
No but happiness is a fleeting thing and no because I haven't been trying to get a magical job.

Do you believe that magic, and related subjects discussed in this forum, have a role to play in nudging the world towards a brighter future than the one we seem to be rapidly heading towards?
No, I don't believe that magic can make communities happier and I don't believe in large, restricted faith/religion. When you're talking about a brighter future for so many people I think it must be based somewhere else, somewhere accessible for everyone and in the other things we do. Magic doesn't build the world, it only contributes to it and when we choose a particular path there are far more important things to bear in mind. The practicalities of our existence should come first, our ritualism has to fit around that. Magic is the icing, not the cake or if you prefer- the icing crumbles without the cake. Better to get out on to the street and complain, magic to support that action is good but to rely on magic alone is to behave in a way that takes no personal responsibility.
 
 
--
23:26 / 05.11.04
So why are you posting here?

I guess because I’ve gotten used to this place to some extent and, over time, have established friendships with various parties. Because I find the topics fascinating and want to participate. Because this is one of the few forums I frequent where I can talk about this shit without being called crazy, psychotic, or just seeking attention. Because it at time stimulates me on an intellectual level. Because at times it makes me laugh. Because I like to get a fresh perspective on ideas sacred to me… Input and all that. Because at various points in my life it’s helped me to see a new way of doing things, it forced me to look at my own life with a microscope, self-analyzing myself relentlessly. Hell, place has even scared the shit out of me at times. Also, I like the green background the font appears against. It’s comforting.

What do you expect to accomplish with all of this magic and spirituality bullshit?

Change, on a personal level, and, hopefully, change on a much larger level. I think anyone’s life can serve as a trigger to someone else’s life, be it motivational or otherwise… And so on and so on. Lord knows reading about the lives of other magicians had a huge impact on me. Dali’s life inspires me, as did Warhol, but I think it was when I read P-Orridge and GM’s comments on living your life as a giant biography that I finally felt kinship with someone or something else… Living with this kind of attitude usually gets one mocked, I’ve found.

What the fuck are you playing at?

I’ve been practicing this for three years now, trying to figure it all out. Where I stand on all this. In that time I’ve read many books on the subject, dabbled here and there, basically tried to expose myself to as many different types of occult thought I could find. Just trying to see what appealed to me. I guess, speaking now, after much experimentation, that I definitely have a clearer picture of where I stand on all this. But I think there’s still a great deal more experimenting to be done. “Initiation never ends”… I will say that I really like the Gnostic way of thinking, perhaps because it was my entry-point into all this (via "The Matrix" and "The Invisibles").

Where do you think it's leading?

To a newer, better me, I hope. To the destruction of the individual Self-Opera, the fall of the Tower that represents Self. Barad-dur…

What do you expect to get from it?

Illumination, excitement, drama, chaos, love, sex, money, penguins, life, death, joy, bliss, health… anything to feel alive.

Do you practice something that you call magic?

Yes, most definitely.

Why are you persisting with it?

Because I feel like it is a calling, and it is a path I need to walk. I feel like this is meant to be, that my whole life has steered me to this point and I need to follow it all the way through. And because, since my starting with it, my life has become a thousand times more interesting. In some aspects it’s made my life more difficult to some extent… But this is only because I now want more out of life then I wanted before. When I got into magic, I realized that I could be better then what I was, that my life could be better then what it was, that complacency needed to go away… In some aspects it messed me up but in other aspects it made me want to strive for something higher.

Are you trying to prove something to yourself?

Perhaps. Maybe I am deluded and this is all bullshit and I’m just seeking attention, trying desperately not to be seen as the geek I was in school. Or maybe I’m just trying to prove that I can change, that I can control my own destiny, to prove to the logic Gestapo that magic does indeed work. I consider my body a laboratory and my life some kind of big project.


Have you already proven something to your own satisfaction?

Yes. No big examples to cite, rather a lot of smaller subtle moments that form a larger canvas.

If so, where do you now intend to take it?

I wouldn’t call myself an armchair magician per se, but I suppose that one of my main interests now is taking this working model I’ve created, all these oddball theories of mine, and applying them to a real-life context. That is, meeting people like myself (and unlike myself), establishing new friendships, getting a place to call my own, begin a writing career, feel at one with nature, try to discover love. That kind of thing. It seems the happier someone is, the harder they try to spread the happiness to others. “I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me!”

Are you here for the long haul?

I’d like to think so. There have been moments in my life where the going’s gotten rough… Moments where I feel like my life is over, that my depression can’t get any worse then this (of course, it always can), that this magick shit is all delusional, that I should go back to my old religion and maybe I’d be happy again… Yet, somehow I haven’t let all this pull me down to suicide or make me abandon the art… Perhaps because deep down I know I have something better to offer to the world then just this wimpy, emotionally constipated, whining geek. I know there is something better to life then what is being offered to me, and I am determined to find that. Because I was lucky enough to get a glimpse of the possible evolution of humanity as we know it and I’m thirsty to know more.


Where do you see yourself being, as a magician, in 20 or 50 years?

I don’t really think about this much… Probably some crazy old guy like Austin Spare or William S. Burroughs, living with a bunch of cats in some shack while churning out artwork and inspiring a new generation of magicians and writers… “I have a dream”… I’d like to find a soul mate or something. Dali had Gala, for example, and they seemed to play off each other well.

What are your goals?

To become the best writer I can be. To become the best magician I can be. To be all that I can be. To become a legend in my own time. To one day cross the Abyss. To be able to wake up every day excited about life. To lose this dead weight in my chest, these neurotic memories that I let limit what I can be, these stupid hang-ups and insecurities. Among other things. The Knowledge and Conversation of the HGA.

Do you believe that your actions as a magician further those goals in any tangible sense?

I bloody hope so, otherwise I’ve wasted a helluva lotta time and money!

Can you point to anything concrete in support of that belief?

This is tricky to answer. One man’s evidence is another man’s rubbish. I could point to my vision, but someone else could just turn around and say I ate too much before going to bed.

Do you believe that magic, and related subjects discussed in this forum, have a role to play in nudging the world towards a brighter future than the one we seem to be rapidly heading towards?

Definitely.

What do you think that role might be?

Perhaps when people realize they can control their own destinies they won’t be so reliant on other people’s belief systems/dogmas/governments/what-have-you. I think magick/NLP/reichian therapy/meditation/whatever ya wanna call it/ could serve as a key that helps release people from the prison that daily life imposes on us.

How do you think it might play out?

Well, resistance is expected, obviously…. I don’t think it’ll be any big dramatic thing… Rather it’ll be a gradual unfolding process that seeps into everyone and everything. I haven’t really thought all that much about this, I’m just tossing stuff out here.

What are the small steps?

You know, at the bookstore I work at there are quite a few teen books (and younger) that revolve around the occult, magick, alchemy, and things of that nature. Most of it is typical New Age Wicca stuff, but you gotta start somewhere, I suppose. I think that getting kids hooked on this stuff early could lead up to big changes in the future. The Harry Potter fanboys of today becoming the presidents of tomorrow.

What are the long term goals?

Well, to be cliché, I guess the evolution of the universe into a fifth-dimensional entity existing in the Gnostic Plemora. That’s what I call a long-term goal. I don’t think this will happen, however, until there is some type of thought shift that triggers the species into a new mode of thinking… Perhaps when we figure out how to change our bodies and personalities on a daily basis, we’ll realize that we’re all one thing made from the same material and this will go a long way for the universal transmutation.

What do you want to happen?

See above. Evolution, both on a personal level and a higher level. A world where everyone can be what they want, get what they want, and do what they want. Hell, I’ll echo Wolf and quote Neo and say “Peace”.

What are you going to do about it?

This I am still figuring out. I think a magician should use all the tools at hir disposal… I’m an okay writer so maybe I could do something with that.

What do you want to get out of the Temple forum?

I think I get quite a bit out of the Temple forum, to be honest. In my first answer I listed all the things that I got from it, which explained why I post here… So, I’d have to say, take all that, and advance it to the nth degree.

Is it adequately fulfilling what you want from it?

To some extent, yes, but I’m always looking for fresh sources of inspiration. As of recently it’s become a little too politics-crazed and I get enough of that shit at work.

Why do you find it intimidating?

Maybe because I’ve always been a very intellectual person and there haven’t been many people in my personal life who I could describe in such a manner… therefore, here I really feel like my intellect is being challenged, and that in itself is threatening… Also, in the past I’ve annoyed certain people here so now I’m usually a little more hesitant about the kind of thread I post.

Would you prefer it to be less intimidating?

Not really sure. I suppose the intimidation aspect makes life interesting. There are certain individuals I hold in high esteem here, and their creativity/originality sets a tough bar to match. I won’t name names though.

Have you ever been too intimidated start a topic?

Yes.

What was the topic?

There was a time where I was reading a lot of writers like Peter Sotos and Dennis Cooper, and as you know their writing sometimes features pre-age of consent boys being raped and murdered. At the time I wondered if one could work with such material as a magical tool for unlocking certain parts of the psyche, or deal with thought-streams that most of us try to ignore or avoid (that is, putting oneself in this kind of weird, creepy headspace). That is, ritually masturbating over the idea (and I stress the word idea) of sexually destroying or murdering teenager/children. I decided that perhaps it was too extreme a topic and I was afraid I’d be labeled a sick pedo or something, so I decided not to post it, as it’s the kind of taboo subject that inevitably leads to discomfort. Hell, I’m uncomfortable talking about it, but I feel I must answer the questions truthfully. I’m not saying this to make myself sound weird or fucked-up, it’s just I’ve taken to heart Morrison’s comments in that interview in “Anarchy for the Masses” that one should constantly be dealing with the worst aspects of one’s self, the ugliest sex fantasies and so on. This was how I dealt with my submerged misogyny, you see: By bringing it up to the surface, exposing it to the light of investigation, and exploring it thoroughly until it no longer bothered or troubled me. I can definitely say that a lot of that irrational hate has been cleansed from my system, and it’s not the turn-on it used to be.

What would you like to see more of here?

Stuff that challenges me. That’s vague, I know. Stuff that makes me laugh. We all need a good laugh every now and then, to not take ourselves too seriously.

What would you like to see less of?

Politics. Only because, as I said, I deal with enough of that shit at work. From both sides of the political spectrum.

What sort of threads do you find exciting?

Threads in which people talk about the kind of rituals they go through, especially if it’s personal and specific… Threads that deal with magicians or ideas I find interesting…. People who aren’t afraid to go that extra step and bare their soul in a way they wouldn’t do anywhere else. I like honesty.

What sort of threads make you cringe?

Not many. Even newbies sometimes bring a fresh idea to a tired old subject (sigils, discordianism, and so on). And peoples view do change over time.

If you're here to learn more about magic, is that learning process taking place in as productive and effective manner as possible?

I came here to learn about magic, yes, and I still feel I have a lot to learn.

What do you want to learn about?

How one can possibly survive these traumatic births called change, how one can have their entire lives and notions of self destroyed, yet they manage to piece themselves back together and move on, enlightened. I think so many people fear death because it’s the ultimate change, the ultimate disillusion of self, whereas a magician who has died many “mini deaths” by constantly changing is better prepared to meet the real thing head on. How do you deal?

How do you think other posters might better facilitate this learning process?

Have to think this over, not sure.

Could the temple forum be better?

Well, you know what they say, there’s always room for improvement. Without mutations species become stagnant and eventually go extinct. Perhaps the same could be said of web forums.

What could be done to make it better?

I’ll have to ponder this one.
 
 
Unconditional Love
23:43 / 05.11.04
why the fuck are you asking these questions?
and now you answer them......go on you know you want to.
 
 
--
01:22 / 06.11.04
Are you refering to Gypsy lantern wolfangel?
 
 
---
01:49 / 06.11.04
So why are you posting here?

I guess it's to have my ideas affirmed or not if I have any and post, as a check to see if I'm on the right track and to equally help people if I can, and to learn.

What do you expect to accomplish with all of this magic and spirituality bullshit?

There's just so many levels to this question. I started this 6 years ago looking for the truth after an obsession with conspiracy theories and the occult. At the moment I'm trying find healing, guidance, protection and creative energies.

What the fuck are you playing at?

Trying to cut down on my bad habits so that I can see more clearly. I've been doing this gradually over the years (Non-attachement of Buddhism, working with Elements etc, etc) and it's worked to an extent, now I'm looking to refine and enhance the process so that I can do it a lot better.

Where do you think it's leading?

I can't pretend I know.

What do you expect to get from it?

Healed.

What would you like to see more of here?

I'm pretty happy here as it is, there's so many different things that get talked about that it doesn't really get stale, so it's good.

Do you believe that magic, and related subjects discussed in this forum, have a role to play in nudging the world towards a brighter future than the one we seem to be rapidly heading towards?

The word Magick completely interchanges with the words Spirit, Essence, Kung-Fu*, God, Goddess, Man, Woman, and so on when I use it myself, so yes. (it basically just stretches to everything. I guess I think of the word Magick kind of like a Taoist would see the word Tao, or Dao.) Definately. Be it Jesus coming down out of the clouds, to Crowley riding in on Horus, to a Man or Woman averting a disaster and saving lives, to anyone creating anything at all that helps no matter how small, it's exactly the same thing to me, Spirit, Essence, Kung-Fu, Magick, Te.



*I'm thinking of the translations of 'Kung-Fu' with or close to application or skill, virtue, force, etc.
 
 
LVX23
05:12 / 06.11.04
Just trying to help put us all back together again
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:59 / 06.11.04
why the fuck are you asking these questions?

Because I’m a secret Government agent compiling a dossier on you all for my shadowy superiors in the order.

Either that, or I couldn’t follow up on my initial posts last night as I was too busy participating in the sinister occult ritual known as ‘going for a beer after work’. Brrrr…

I’ll be back to answer my own questions later on today, with any luck.

Sypha, great post that one, by the way.
 
 
--
13:39 / 06.11.04
I hope that's not sarcasm. I can never tell with you.
 
 
+#'s, - names
13:55 / 06.11.04
I'm just here for the free sex. and the drugs. but mostly for the sex. but partly for the drugs. no wait, maybe mostly for the drugs. but the sex is good. well, the sex is good and the drugs are good.
 
 
illmatic
14:17 / 06.11.04
Oh, I don't think he's being sarky, it was a good post. Good thread in fact. Makes me wish I had a lot more time so I could answer all the questions myself.

On a basic level, the basic "why?" it just makes me wake up a bit. I notice how amazing life and the world, and people, are. I get such a complex and rich perspective, and lots of new ways to operate and act within this. Problems and difficulties aren't just shit happening in my head, to poor little old me, but become part of this learning process, fuel to the fire. It gives me a lot of self understanding and a lot of openess that would otherwise be lacking. And it's challenging, if I'm honest enough with myself to open up to the challenges.

Bit wooly there, probably another bloody answer tomorrow.

There's much more, but this: Do you believe that magic, and related subjects discussed in this forum, have a role to play in nudging the world towards a brighter future than the one we seem to be rapidly heading towards

What I'd really like to do is get something off the ground with the Reichian stuff. This, to me, would defintely help give the world that little nudge that it needs.
 
 
SteppersFan
14:29 / 06.11.04
So why are you posting here?

Nice people here I can learn stuff from and have fun with. Plus, it's easier posting on magickal forums than it is, you know, actually doing magic.

Do you practice something that you call magic?

Sometimes. Bit busy.

Are you here for the long haul?

Seem to be. Getting on for 25 years of being rubbish at magic now!

Where do you see yourself being, as a magician, in 20 or 50 years?

Still rubbish, but enjoying it, hopefully.

What are your goals?

Healing, fun, and love.

Do you believe that your actions as a magician further those goals in any tangible sense?

Yup.

Can you point to anything concrete in support of that belief?

Yup. I can hear the baby crying downstairs.

Do you believe that magic, and related subjects discussed in this forum, have a role to play in nudging the world towards a brighter future than the one we seem to be rapidly heading towards?

A bit. A world that looks to its heart rather than its head would help.

What do you want to happen? What are you going to do about it?

I want to help stop the baby crying, so I'm going to go downstairs and cuddle him while dancing round the kitchen to Lee Perry. Assuming he's not breastfeeding, in which case I'll make the wife some tea.
 
 
Unconditional Love
19:28 / 06.11.04
beer?sinster?occult?secret?

yeah there everywhere be careful.

remember to pack a gorilla.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
00:18 / 07.11.04
I hope that's not sarcasm. I can never tell with you.

Not at all. I thought it was really open, honest, interesting, and one of the best posts I’ve read from you in the temple or anywhere else on barbelith. More of the same, please. Respect.

Singularly failed to respond to my own post this evening. Got drunk and danced with tedious girls and clunky boys instead. Bad decision.

beer?sinster?occult?secret? yeah there everywhere be careful. remember to pack a gorilla.

Don’t leave home without one.
 
 
SteppersFan
09:30 / 07.11.04
I’ve taken to heart Morrison’s comments in that interview in “Anarchy for the Masses” that one should constantly be dealing with the worst aspects of one’s self, the ugliest sex fantasies and so on.

If Morrison said that then, personally, I think that's a load of bollocks. I think that's one of the biggest dead ends in magic. Being aware of and working through the "darker" aspects of one's nature is not the same as constantly forcing one's psyche into the most frightening shapes possible.

Specifically, trying to get some sort of magical effect from fanatisies about killing children is one of the most brazenly stupid things I've ever heard of.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
11:50 / 07.11.04
Nun4Guv'


is your real name Mutu?

(if you are not an British soccer fan that might be lost on you but I hope you get the joke!)
 
 
Unconditional Love
18:15 / 07.11.04
2step, if those things were in you do you not think it would be better to indulge them as fantasies as a form of release, treat it as magickal work and then move on once said things have been delt with, rather than say knowing there there not dealing with it repressing it, and waiting for an interior force like that to fuck with you when you fall low, believe me they are better off given the release than repressed. which by the way is the only other alternative. dwelling isnt healthy, but dealing with it giving it shape and form learning to manage it and then moving on from it empowers you over it, rather than say the other way around. which would probably end with you acting upon it.

know yourself.

im no psychiatrist or psychologist, but the pretend its not a part of me and it will go away approach to life, just doesnt work at all, unless you apply opiates as well.
 
  

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