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Breaking Up Is Hard To Do

 
  

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_Boboss
14:26 / 04.11.04
it's not about him being better, it's about her not being good enough. she sounds like she'd make a rubbish girlfriend, and not a particulaly good mate either. 'oh oh i really like you it's just it's not you it's me only i've um put a personal ad in the 'social retards' page of the paper because really i am looking for other people but i'm shit at it and i've been lying to you.'

it's sad, sure, but not because it's over, just cause it happened like it did in the first place.
 
 
Lilly Nowhere Late
14:28 / 04.11.04
whoops, sorry, I missed the part about only wanting specific advice. I shall retire from advice giving now. Hope you all fare better in the future.
Cheers tho Ariadne, I love cool girls with pretty hair!
 
 
CameronStewart
14:34 / 04.11.04
Gambit, I appreciate the attempt to help by making me feel like she's a loser, but truth be told, the online personals (you know the ones on salon.com, or theonion.com, rottentomatoes.com) is how I met her. So I guess that makes me a loser too.

When we started seeing each other we didnt think we'd need the ads any more, so we got rid of them. Now I see hers is back up.
 
 
_Boboss
14:45 / 04.11.04
oh okay, i'm sorry. is it in the same place it was before? that could be construed as cold i think, especially given that she's still in love with her old boyfriend. is it like amazon? i mean, are you allowed to do sort of ratings of each other after? think it might be decent of you to tell the rest of the folk that she's still got the hots for xboyf so they don't waste their time.

all the online personals i've ever seen appear to have pics of supermodels next to them. i'm suspicious, frankly.
 
 
CameronStewart
14:56 / 04.11.04
>>>oh okay, i'm sorry. is it in the same place it was before?<<<

Yes. You have the option to hide them from public view, and I think she had hers hidden (which, fair enough, so had I) and has just made it publicly viewable again (which I haven't done).

>>>that could be construed as cold i think, especially given that she's still in love with her old boyfriend.<<<

I'm growing skeptical about the "in love with my ex" thing. I'm beginning to think that was a convenient thing for her to point to, and I think she just decided that she didnt want to be with one person and figured it was easier for her to use that as an excuse than just tell me straight. I dunno. Pure conjecture.

>>>is it like amazon? i mean, are you allowed to do sort of ratings of each other after? think it might be decent of you to tell the rest of the folk that she's still got the hots for xboyf so they don't waste their time.<<<

No, you can't do that, and I wouldn't anyway. I don't really have any animosity or ill-will towards her, and I don't want to interfere with her life in any negative way. I still do intend on being a friend to her at some point.

>>>all the online personals i've ever seen appear to have pics of supermodels next to them. i'm suspicious, frankly.<<<

Well, having seen her picture first, and then spending 5 weeks with her, I can assure you the picture was accurate.
 
 
_Boboss
15:06 / 04.11.04
so she was lying about her reasons for not wanting to be with you. and, though you want to be mates with her, she is actively looking for other more intimate pals/maybe more. still not sounding like good friend material to my ears, but good luck with whatever you decide to do. fwiw, i think the advice near the start of the thread, i.e. a finite, dedicated period of self-indulgent drinking and wanking will succesfully alleviate the current unpleasant feelings.
 
 
ibis the being
15:18 / 04.11.04
I think Haus is right about that quick-fall type of "love" in your case, Cameron. To that end I would caution against this kind of thinking -

and threaten what potential friendship we may have.

Just based on my own personal experience, that dogged attachment to your potential future friendship is often masking a hidden (even from yourself) hope that she'll fall back in love with you. Not to mention that if is about her tapping into some greater need/desire, plus the fact that you were involved for a relatively short time (& are therefore perhaps permanently stuck in the rose-glasses phase of the relationship), seeing her at all again in the future is running the severe risk of falling back into love/depression. You'll recover, you'll be okay and emotionally stable, and then December rolls around and you meet at the airport and - bam, you're back to heartsick. I can't tell you how many times I've done that.

The only time I support fraternizing with an ex is if you were friends for a long time preceding your romantic relationship, and/or you were together for a long time during which all intimacy and fantasy really petered out.
 
 
ibis the being
15:20 / 04.11.04
Oh, and my attempt to explain, from a female pov, the ad and the "ex" breakup excuse. She's probably rebounding hard (from him), and though her intentions with you were honorable at the start - she had no way of knowing how intense it would get. I think she told you the truth about not being ready for a relationship, and I think in fact her personal ad supports that story.
 
 
CameronStewart
15:28 / 04.11.04
Thanks Ibis. But what do you suggest we do about the trip then? Not go? Change the date to one day ahead so we don't even travel together?
 
 
CameronStewart
15:36 / 04.11.04
Ugh, now I'm battling that urge discussed upthread about wanting to write her a short email expressing my hurt at her reinstating the personal ad.

Must...fight...it...
 
 
Haus of Mystery
15:40 / 04.11.04
Yeah do that mate. Don't pick the scab.
We've all seen Swingers yes?

Seriously though, bad luck.
It's always rubbish. Always.

But you drew Seaguy man! Life can be good too.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:43 / 04.11.04
Before we get into full-on burn the witch territory:

Gambit, you don't know her. Your approach to breakups may be to demonise your friend's ex, and that, within limits, is fine and dandy. However, one thing that is coming out of this thread is that different people react to breaking up in different ways. Also, people often don't have a complete picture of how their emotions are functioning at any given moment.

So, we have a situation where two people have tried to have a relationship and it hasn't worked out. However, they did get on, and enjoyed each other's company, and are trying to work out whether there is a way that they can continue to enjoy each other's company. This may or may not work, but I'm not sure now is the right time to make a categorical statement about which and whether. Certainly attempting to become friends carries with it a higher risk of being upset or unhappy (even if it works, at times), and it may ultimately not work out at all - some people only work as partners, just like some people only work as friends. Those are the risks you take. The alternative, as ibis says, it to cut potential losses and decide that a largely wonderful relationship with a natural lifespan of five weeks has now run its course, and you can decide not to see each other again and have those memories.

As for the tickets - if they are non-transferable I guess you can't sell them on eBay or similar, and if they are non-refundable then you're not losing anything if you just decide not to bother. But you can change the date? If it's possible, I'd leave it a month or so, then decide if you still want to go, if going alone would depress you more, if you want to be stuck in a pressurised cabin for eight hours with her - it sounds to me like a bit of a gamble, and it might be best either to change to separate flights on the same day and arrange to meet for dinner in Paris instead if you can. Personally, I'd probably knock it on the head, but then I'd never be organised enough to have booked it...
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
15:47 / 04.11.04
Hee! Yes, you should be inspired by this! Although not in a dangerous Sim-like way.

Well, maybe not just yet anyway. Do fight it though. I'm feeling strangely rational now, although it is always easier to tell someone else.

I'd say if you feel you really do need to e-mail her to clarify a few things, leave it for a while and do it when you're feeling less upset by the ad situation. Which I totally understand by the way. Whenever stuff like that happens to me it bowls me right over, and I can never wait.

I hope you're battling on!
 
 
CameronStewart
15:49 / 04.11.04
>>>and if they are non-refundable then you're not losing anything if you just decide not to bother<<<

Well, we're losing the cost of the flight, which was significant.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:08 / 04.11.04
Well, we're losing the cost of the flight, which was significant.

Point taken. In which case, maybe change the flight times to two planes an hour apart, on the grounds that if you aren't getting on you can have two separate holidays, and if you are you can meet at a restaurant on the evening you get in, or lunchtime the next day? Even if you're getting on swimmingly, a transatlantic flight seems a bit of a hostage to fortune...

Ugh, now I'm battling that urge discussed upthread about wanting to write her a short email expressing my hurt at her reinstating the personal ad.

Must...fight...it...


You know it, dude. If you're not serious about giving the friends thing a go, then you don't get to tell her off when she gets on with her life. If you *are*, imagine how it will feel if the first contact she gets from this guy who would like to stay friends is telling her that he is upset with her. Again, if it turns out that you do get on as friends, and you still care about it enough, you'll be in a better place to share how you felt and expect her to be interested and receptive. But right now, as an ex, you have pretty much zero leverage here. Vent at us instead...

(and yes, I'm displacing. The alternative being to stab out my eyes with Kerry/Edwards promotional pencils)
 
 
Papess
16:32 / 04.11.04
I am sorry to hear this, Cameron.

I might say something that that has already been said, but I want to say it myself, from me to you. I also may say something that is hard to accept, but I think it always much better to be honest even if it hurts a bit...which, for the record, she has done.

I mean, I would be thankful, even if I was still sad about it, if someone breaking up with me was that forthcoming. She seems to have been rebounding from a previous relationship, very unfortunate, and she still has a lot to work out about it. She needs to sort herself, as you do, before pursuing another relationship with anyone. As others have similarly said here, it's more about you and your relationship to yourself.

It may hurt, I know...but at least she had the courage to tell you the truth, allowing you the freedom to live your life without wasting your time falsely pursuing her.

She sounds very emotionally confused and yet, she also seems to really like you. She likes you enough to be straight-up and not want to hurt you further by leading you on when she is unsure.

Alas, you are doing the right thing to spend time away from her until you are ready and not feeling vulnerable to her. I hope she sticks with her end of it too and doesn't tempt you just because she might be lonely one night. I would guard your heart from this. Do not let her indulge in you on a whim and then not call you for months, not if that is going to be painful for you. Even if it is intended that you and her are only going out on a friendship basis. Just don't go there. If she calls you up and asks you to go out, tell you have plans even if you do not. For the next little while, anyway. Otherwise, you will always end up back on square one as a little pawn on her chessboard.

Protect your heart and sort your head, first.

I really feel for you though, Cameron. Nobody likes breakups, of course. However, it is possible to get through this. Everyday, you can heal the pain from this, (but you cannot pick at the scab!) by distracting yourself with good friends and some of your favourite interests. Not to be trite, because this will still hurt, I know. BUt, you do need to be in the company of people who will accelerate your healing, not retard it.

Then, when you are ready, please go and have some casual safe sex with a *few different partners who are caring but not clingy. I think the term is "fuck buddy", which come in handy around these times. They may not be exactly who you want to be with, but the sexual exchange can help release very healing chemicals in the brain and be healthy for both of you, (not your ex, the FB). I say to find a few partners because you don't just want to be transferring energy from one relationship with your ex to a new relationship. In order to heal, you need give yourself decompression time and having more than one, easy-going relationship will help you focus on yourself and not on another relationship, while still getting the benefits of human contact without burdening anyone...much like your ex-girlfriend is trying to do, once she became honest with herself and with you.

Take care, Cameron



*Not all at the same time, necessarily. *wink*
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:41 / 04.11.04
Or, you know, have some chccolate. Similar chemicals.
 
 
Papess
17:11 / 04.11.04
Or, you know, have some chccolate. Similar chemicals.

Uhm, yes Haus. Not the same healing effect, though. PLus, sex is less fattening and you can't hug a chocolate. I mean, there are some drugs that release these similar chemicals, but that doesn't make them healthy.

I like to encourage sex for healing purposes. Just one of my personal idiosyncrasies.
 
 
CameronStewart
17:13 / 04.11.04
Thanks to each and every one of you who's contributed to this thread, it's really helped a lot. Some things said here have struck a chord, and I think are going to be very beneficial to me in the long run.

And extra-special thanks to Haus, who's eerily dead-on in every post. And I appreciate that you've put aside our past tensions in the interest of helping me. Cheers, mate.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
17:13 / 04.11.04
I go for the chocolate.
 
 
Papess
17:27 / 04.11.04
The benefit of chocolate is it is less complicated. Unless you are diabetic.

I would like to say, also, that sex with anyone is definately not necessary. It can be helpful or hurtful though, depending on how it is approached.
 
 
Olulabelle
19:03 / 04.11.04
This thread makes me fluctuate between feeling, on the one hand, desperately sad for all the upset, confused people and on the other, delighted with all the sage and inspiring advice being offered.

It's also growing at a remarkable rate. This morning I looked - 1 reply. Now? 55. Love is a topic in everyone's vocabulary and it's obvious that writing is a really good way of working through things. Actually, I think that writing to the person in question telling them whatever you feel compelled to tell them is an excellent idea, but just don't send it. Don't don't don't, however much you think they 'need to hear it' or deserve to know it' and however much you secretly feel sure they'll fall in love with you again if they 'just read this one last thought'.

Hmm.

I found in the past that thinking of something that really annoyed me about the person whenever they came to mind helped me. And if there wasn't anything drastic to focus on, I focused on something little and turned it into a big thing. I think one way to get past hurt (there are other ways) is to try and make yourself be glad it's over.

So yes, just write it out, print it out and burn it. Or bin it. Or save it in drafts and re-read it. The point is, once you've written it, you'll feel better.

The other thing you can do is take comfort in the delicious knowledge that you will find your true love (mutual true love, rather than one way) one day. You just will. And if this relationship isn't it, then maybe a way to view it is to think how exciting it is that you've got it all to look forward to. Rather than reflecting on how it's all gone.

Easy to say I know.
 
 
eddie thirteen
19:14 / 04.11.04
Wow. If nothing else, Cam, I hope you're feeling the love here; this thread got big FAST. I just wanna speak up in defense of Lilly -- frankly, I think she's right (broadly speaking, anyway...admittedly, following her advice to the letter may not be practical). For me, and I suspect for a lot of us, the hardest part of letting go has to do with the way the other person saw us...especially in situations where it's all whirlwind and flash. It's not as simple as a chemical reaction; sudden and intense relationships bring with them an unexpected feeling of personal validation. When from out of nowhere you're involved with this amazing woman, it makes you feel *worthy* of such a relationship, which hits you on many more levels than just the romantic. It makes you feel like someone has seen you, at once, as the cool and desirable guy you deep-down know you are. I realize this all sounds a little desperate and pathetic, and to a degree it makes all ostensibly noble seekers of love sound a little bit like plain old egomaniacs, but I've found it to be the case with myself and friends just about invariably. So to decide that she's a loser (no, no, no) is in essence to invalidate the way she made you feel...and wow is THAT gonna suck. A better solution is convince yourself that you're still every bit as worthwhile as she made you feel, and...well...a mindless fling may do the trick. Getting into another serious relationship while wounded is a recipe for disaster; just sitting around feeling sorry for yourself would actively BE a disaster. It sounds to me like you just need a personal boost...possibly not only that, but I promise you it'd help a lot. Good luck, man.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
19:27 / 04.11.04
Cameron;

I'd suggest the following as far as Paris goes, seeing as it'd be a real shame not to go if you've already booked the tickets, and can't for whatever reason go on seperate flights;

Meet up at the airport, not for too long, arrange to sit in different parts of the plane, and stay in different hotels, but then to have lunch or a drink on the Left Bank a day or so later. Soak up the general excellence of Paris as a town ( If you've not been before, that cliche about it being the City Of Light is actually true, ) and remember, I guess, that you're not sitting round in Zimbabwe or some such, as hollow as that thought must seem at the moment.

Mainly, good luck !

( For what little it's worth, I thought Seaguy was great. )
 
 
Bed Head
19:36 / 04.11.04
Haus, I have to say, everything you've been saying in this thread has been quite relentless in hitting the nail on the head, so thank you.

Ah, just like to second that. I remember you gave lovely advice to Puck, too. You’re very good at this.

I also like Lilly’s advice, but that’s probably because it’s the kind of advice I’d never, ever take. Things I’d never do always sound good. Mostly.

And, yes, chocolate.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:40 / 04.11.04
Barbelilith: I totally take your point. I just know that I have gone through breakups where random sex afterwards was a *terrible* idea, but that is very possibly just me and where I was at the time, and it's certainly a way of dealing with things which I would not want to criticise.

Cam: Just for the record: we fell out because I was an enormous dick, and I admit that completely. I misread something you wrote in a totally unnecessary way because somebody I cared about had died, I was having a fucking horrible time, and I was head-down conflict boy. As far as I'm concerned, everything that happened there was my issues and my responsibility, and I am just glad that you have - very kindly - not written me off as an archfuckhead as a result.
 
 
Papess
21:25 / 04.11.04
I totally take your point. I just know that I have gone through breakups where random sex afterwards was a *terrible* idea, but that is very possibly just me and where I was at the time, and it's certainly a way of dealing with things which I would not want to criticise.

Yes, I do understand where you are coming from, Haus. I certainly don't disagree with you either. In most cases, (guessing about 99% of the time), falling haphazardly in to the next warm body one finds, is a definate recipie for disaster. For myself, after a painful break up, I feel too raw to be touched in such a romantic and intimate manner, anyway. I probably had not made myself very clear. I would suggest that such encounters should be sought only after a good period of time after the break up and not while the emotions are still in their percieved crisis mode. That would give time for one to deal with the situation and themself, instead of using an escape; be it sex, chocolate, alcohol or drugs, etc...

For the first little while however, I would choose chocolate over sex as well!
 
 
HCE
23:25 / 04.11.04
Hey Cameron,

Just wanted to chime in another voice saying that as much as it hurts, it's only because you've got nice healthy nerves doing what they should, and that people will understand this. The mistake I always make is to withdraw because I think I'll be lousy company, a downer, etc. Don't know if that's something you're prone to do, but generally my friends have made it clear to me that they know what breakups are like, and are perfectly happy to see me even if I'm not in the best of moods. Let your friends be nice to you.
 
 
Ariadne
06:26 / 05.11.04
And while we're all doing 'for the record's, I was more talking about the going away and revalidating yourself than the random sex with strangers. I'm not against the latter, necessarily, but it could definitely backfire.

A step away from home, going somewhere new, can definitely help. You need to recover your sense of who you are and what's good, rather than feeling rejected and unlovable.
 
 
Triplets
08:11 / 05.11.04
Or: just suck it up and get on with it.
 
 
Spaniel
09:08 / 05.11.04
Guys, I'm not saying that Lilly's advice is entirely awful. Of course changing your environment and having some commitment free sex is exactly what the doctor ordered for some people. And I understand the underlying message that it's good to get in touch with yourself, especially when you've been dependant on another for so long.
But (and it's a pretty big but), I think advice of such a specific nature more often that not falls on deaf ears and can serve to alienate the recipient. Moreover, it could even do more harm than good if acted upon.

I hope Mice will forgive me for dragging her into this, but I think she's a pretty could case in point. We're talking about a poster who's expressed self loathing and a great deal of social anxiety a number of times on this board. Would Lilly's advice really suit her? Would it really be a good idea for someone who might not have the survival skills to run off to some foreign land? Maybe, maybe not.

As far as I'm concerned most of the advice offered by Haus and myself has been of the practical variety. Yes I suppose it is one size fits all, but to my mind it's oe size fits all in the way that being advised to use handle bars to steer a bike is one size fits all - not the only way of doing things, but the most sensible way of acting most of the time.
 
 
Spaniel
09:11 / 05.11.04
God, my last post is so fucking conceited.

Sorry, all.
 
 
Sekhmet
13:08 / 05.11.04
Wow. Poor Cameron.

My only breakup advice is: find an outlet for your feelings. If you're feeling pissed off and violent, grab a cardboard box and a knife and go to town. If you're sad, cry. If you're lonely, call someone up to hang out with. Just don't sit and simmer in your own juices.

And if you can manage to find a creative outlet, use it. I have a songwriter-musician friend who gets an entire album out of every breakup; he just pours all his emotions out into song. And he writes his best stuff then.

And do remember, you're one of the best artists in the world of comics, and you're intelligent and articulate, and I've only seen one photo of you, but you appeared to be quite attractive. You are a worthwhile person, and the sudden freakout of one rebounding female does not change that a whit. Her feelings and problems do not define you.
 
 
Sax
14:05 / 05.11.04
I find it absolutely impossible to offer any kind of useful advice to anyone who has just suffered, or is in the throes of, a break-up. Largely because I have never found any advice offered by even my closest friends to be of the slightest use when in that situation myself.

So. Chin up, Cameron, sharpen that grief into a little, pointy tool for drawing comics with, and if you ever find yourself in the North of England, look me up and we'll have a Watney's Party Four, a Woodbine, and a shag.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
14:10 / 05.11.04
Does that apply to everyone? I could use a good Woodbine...
 
  

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