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Reassessing Buffy Season Six

 
  

Page: (1)23

 
 
PatrickMM
23:29 / 30.10.04
This thread brought up Buffy season six, my personal favorite season of the series, but also the most hated. So, with some perspective, perhaps we can discuss the season, and see where it worked and where it failed.

I think season six is the best season of the series, here's a few reasons why.

-Buffy has never been more interesting than in this season. I love the idea that she has been pulled out of heaven and now considers this world to be hell. I love her depression over the season, it's the season where she's most human and the least "the slayer." It reminds of in the season two Angelus arc, Buffy is brought down to our level, unlike in season seven, where she's presented as a mythical figure. Seeing her sink further and further, be it the job at Double Meat Palace, or most notably, the relationship with Spike is riveting. While Willow going dark is interesting temporarily, Buffy's depression and flirting with darkness is much more interesting. Dead Things is the best example of this.

-The Spike/Buffy relationship. This is probably the most controversial element of the season. I was a huge fan of noble Spike from season five, but I think his evolution in season six makes sense. The dirtiness of their sex scenes was great, and conveyed how far Buffy had fallen. A season ago, she was sacrificing herself to save the world, now she's fucking Spike next to a dumpster behind a fast food restaurant. The rape scene is obviously controversial. I'm not defending Spike in it, but I think that it starts out just like the other sex scenes, there's an element of violence in their relationship, most notably in Smashed, and as a result, they don't have the boundaries that normal people have.

-Warren is one of the most complex villains in the entire series. In Buffy, there are two types of big bads, one is the mythical, huge threat, like The Master, Adam, Glory and the First Evil. The second is the more human threat, who we like and even sympathize with, such as the Mayor or Spike. Warren doesn't fit exactly into either catergory, he's not the unambiguous evil force of someone like the master, but he's not very likable either. Warren has been worn down by society, and has decided to take revenge upon the world that gave him all the rage. He's very much like Willow, in that he is someone who is horribly insecure, but is given an immense amount of power, and can't deal with it. While he appears in a bunch of episodes, the most important work on Warren is done in I Was Made to Love You, Dead Things and Seeing Red. IWMTLY sets up the basic conflicts that underlie Warren, and it's his fall in this episode that leads to the formation of the trio. Dead Things is when Warren crosses the line. He tries to rape Katrina, then kills her. Here, he crosses the line from comic villain to real menace. And Seeing Red plays this out. Warren finally gets the opportunity to be superpowered, and he ends up still messing it up. But, while he has the orbs, I don't think any other Buffy villain is as menacing as Warren. It's the way that he deals with people, particularly women, that makes him so frightening. He thinks that because he has power he can do whatever he wants. Then, the gun scene is absolutely shocking, I think that pretty much speaks for itself. Obviously, it's tough to lend such importance to a guy who made the Moonraker pigeon double take joke, but that's just another part of his complex personality.

-Also, season six has the most interesting character arcs for me. Watching it, even if it was a weaker episode, I'd need to see what happened next week, because there were so many changes with the characters. Each episode left me wanting more because there were so many important character developments in the season. I never wanted to see Xander more then after Hell's Bells, or Buffy after Dead Things, or Willow after Seeing Red. There were so many huge events, and character things going on in the background, that even relatively weak episodes became great. You just don't get this in, say, season seven, where there's basically no character development.

But most of all, season six is the climax of virtually all the character's character arcs. Willow is the most obvious one, she'd been building to this since season one. Xander's lack of self confidence, and fear about commitment reaches its height here, when he leaves Anya, and his position in the group is validated when he saves Willow. This season is where Buffy comes to terms with being a slayer, and really accepts the responsibility of it for the first time. Also, Giles finally realizes that even though Buffy has grown up, she still needs him. All our four main characters are basically done after this. That's a part of why they don't have much to do in season seven, six is about them all confronting their darkness and fear and coming out stronger. It's the confrontation where the interest is, not seeing them stronger for a whole season. Six is what the whole series was building to. I'm not saying it should have been the last season, but in a lot of respects, anything after six is superfluous.
 
 
hachiman
08:38 / 31.10.04
I only recently became a Buffy fan, and season 6 was the first time I had ever sat down to watch the show. I was impressed and fell in love with the show and the characters and above all the writing.For about 5 years i had basically stopped watching tv all together so i missed everything that was aired here in South Africa, something for which i occasionally kick myself.
While alot of people i knew(including my sister) were complaining about how dark the show had become, i came in without any previous knowledge and dug how dark the show was and how human(for superheroes) the characters were. What also rocked my boat was the 70's-early 80's Marvel comics influence i detected. I loved the whole Spidey meets Blade feel to the writing and characterization of both ANGEL and BUFFY. I loved the homage to the comics i grew up reading as a kid (Dark Willow) and how the characters were recognizable as kick ass clones of the 70's horror comics Marvel did.
Season 6 hooked me in a big way on the Whedonverse and i have begun watching the episodes i missed. A few friends of mine are HUGE Whedon fans and have begun buying the DVD's of all the episodes as well as the excellent Firefly(Sniff, cut down in its prime).
They watch em every friday and i have made a point to be there. Season 6 is definitely my favourite of the BUFFY seasons i have seen so far, though i must say i reaally love Angel season 5 too. (DAMN you Warner Brothers!!!! Cancelling the show like that!! YOU BASTARDS!!!)
 
 
The Natural Way
11:57 / 31.10.04
It seems to me that 6 is the reason loads of people I know got into Buffy. Generally, it tends to be long-term fans that object to it.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
12:26 / 31.10.04
I watched Buffy from the end of season 3 on, and I really enjoyed season 6, pretty much for the reasons in the OP.
 
 
PatrickMM
02:29 / 01.11.04
My dad actually got into the series when I was watching season six, then watched the rest of it with me, and the first five seasons after that. I'd agree that it's mainly people who watched the show as it aired, from the beginning, that have problems with the season. Season six works best as the finishing piece of a five year story arc, it's not as standalone as the other seasons are, making it ironic that so many people get into the series based on it. But, that's probably due to the fact that season six is such a different show from season one, it's going to attract different types of people.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
08:53 / 01.11.04
I always found it odd that whilst the hardcore Buffy fans (myself included) hated season six it had all of the elements listed above.
Sure there was no Bronze (when that place was dropped it was like a major part of the Buffy-verse just disappeared), there was no real Big Bad instead there was two minor bads, one dealt with too slowly and one dealt with too quickly, which kinda goes against the formula set up in every season that had gone before.

And who can forget the instant-classic Once More With Feeling?
ANY season with that in has to be great.

Watching the repeats at the moment on Sky has reminded me that it wasn't really as bad as I thought originally. I think with the "death" of Buffy in season five (we don't have to worry about spoilers I take it?) season six had to pull out the stops. It didn't do that. The focus was inverted, a return to classic Buffy was wanted by the fans after she'd gone through so much (Angel leaving, new Dawn, Spike, Joyce's death, meeting the first Slayer etc) but instead we got a lesson in growing up and the crisis that you face when you realise you're an adult now and all the responsibility that comes with that.

I, admittedly, lost my way for season six and stopped watching the show as religiously as I used to. But it's one of my favourite seasons now.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:03 / 01.11.04
I think the reason why I found season 6 to be so accessable is because it had nothing to do with high school (I can't relate to that as much, but I could relate to the Scooby's post-school life), had a peculiar balance of misery and goofiness, and had a lot of Spike, Anya, Warren, and Andrew. Also, season 6 is very X-Men-ish.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:10 / 01.11.04
I really disagree with people who think that Warren isn't the "Big Bad" of the season. Part of what makes Warren so terrifying is how insidious he was - everyone underestimated him, and he ended up causing a lot more damage than the Mayor or Adam ever pulled off.
 
 
Catjerome
14:31 / 01.11.04
I also came on board during Season Six and had fewer issues with it than some of my longer-term fan friends. I knew only some facts from online and had never seen any episodes before, so to me the Buffy world was about Buffy and her sister, Willow wearing stylish clothes, and the writers making fun of fanboy nerds (Warren and pals).

It wasn't until I saw earlier episodes that I saw what a few of my friends didn't like. They complained that the series had started out rooting for the underdog nerds, but now in Season Six, the leads were the stylish in-crowd and the plots made fun of social outcasts and nerds.
 
 
PatrickMM
15:39 / 01.11.04
I really disagree with people who think that Warren isn't the "Big Bad" of the season. Part of what makes Warren so terrifying is how insidious he was - everyone underestimated him, and he ended up causing a lot more damage than the Mayor or Adam ever pulled off.

Exactly. Warren is the only villain who's more about action than talk. It's his schemes that drive Buffy further into depression, be it really screwing with her mind in Life Serial, convincing her she committed murder in Dead Things, or most notably in Normal Again. And then in Seeing Red, he does more harm to the gang than any villain since Angelus had.

No villain on Buffy is scarier than Warren in Seeing Red. When he has the orbs, he finally has the ability to get back at all the people he thinks harmed him, and is just completely driven by hate. He's completely degraded by Buffy in that episode, and that's what leads to him pulling the gun.

Warren is definitely the big bad of the season, Willow isn't even that evil compared to him.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:29 / 01.11.04
Right, Willow's thing is about grief and rage on an epic scale. Warren is all about the evil white male ego, and an obsession with asserting power over others borne out of percieved injustice and persecution. Warren can't get over his childhood issues, and refuses to engage with the world like a real, responsible adult like Buffy et al - he's selfish and feels that the world owes him everything.
 
 
Billuccho!
22:30 / 01.11.04
I really disliked season six when I first watched it (having watched the show from mid-season two to the beginning of season five, and then giving up but coming back when I heard they were making another season), but the DVDs made me like it. Nowhere near my favorite (that would be three. And then four. And then two. And then a toss-up between five and six.) but still pretty decent. My main gripe at the time was because the show was too dark and the plots were decidedly lame. Nowadays, my main gripes are the lack of production values, the decline of the writing, and the amount of boring episodes it had. (Although I am one of the three people that enjoyed "Doublemeat Palace.")

Looking back though, "Life Serial," "Once More With Feeling," and "Seeing Red" were brilliant episodes. It started off very well, quickly turned lame and boring, but came back at around "Entropy" to a decent level of quality, but nowhere up to the standards of previous seasons. And, well, the finale was... the worst out of the finales. But it was trying, dangit, and some of the character stuff was fun. I just wish Xander's arc and screen time was a little bit bigger, and Willow's arc was written better.
 
 
Seth
08:03 / 02.11.04
In order to reassess this I'd have to sit through it again. That's never gonna happen.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
15:33 / 02.11.04
God, no. It was bad enough the first time...
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
16:00 / 02.11.04
Well reasoned, Buffy maniacs!
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:40 / 02.11.04
Given how many dud episodes are in the first two seasons, I'm kinda amazed that people who take such issue with the more consistent quality of season six. The high points in season two are higher, but the weak episodes are so much worse.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:00 / 02.11.04
What are the duds, you might be wondering? Here's my rankings for each season (which I did while watching them, not just now off the top of my head.)

Welcome To The Hellmouth/Harvest - B
The Witch - B
Teacher's Pet - B
Never Kill A Boy On The First Date - B-
The Pack - B
Angel - A-
I Robot You Jane - B-
The Puppet Show - B
Nightmares - B
Out Of Mind Out Of Sight - B
Prophecy Girl - A-

When She Was Bad - C
Some Assembly Required - C
School Hard - B+
Inca Mummy Girl - C
Reptile Boy - B
Halloween - B+
Lie To Me - B+
The Dark Age - B
What's My Line 1 - A
What's My Line 2 - A
Ted - A
Bad Eggs - B+
Surprise - A
Innocence - A
Phases - A-
Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered - A
Passion - A+
Killed By Death - B
I Only Have Eyes For You - B+
Go Fish - B
Becoming 1 - B
Becoming 2 - A

Anne C+
Dead Man's Party C
Faith, Hope, and a Trick A-
Beauty and the Beasts B-
Homecoming A
Band Candy A
Revelations B
Lover's Walk A
The Wish A+
Amends C
Gingerbread B
Helpless B
The Zeppo B-
Bad Girls A+
Consequences A+
Doppelgangland A+
Earshot - B+
Choices - A
The Prom - A+
Graduation Day (1 and 2)- A+

The Freshman - A-
Living Conditions - B+
The Harsh Light Of Day - B+
Fear, Itself - B
Beer Bad - A
Wild At Heart - A
The Initiative - A-
Pangs - A
Something Blue - A-
Hush - A+
Doomed - B+
A New Man - B+
The I In Team - B+
Goodbye Iowa - A-
This Year's Girl A+
Who Are You? A+
Superstar A
Where The Wild Things Are B
New Moon Rising B+
The Yoko Factor A-
Primeval A-
Restless A+

Buffy Vs. Dracula A-
Real Me A
The Replacement A
Out Of My Mind B
No Place Like Home A-
Family A
Fool For Love A+
Shadows B+
Listening To Fear - C
Into The Woods - A
Triangle - A
Checkpoint - A
Blood Ties - B+
Crush - A
I Was Made To Love You - A+
The Body - A+
Forever - B
Intervention - A
Tough Love - A-
Spiral - A+
The Weight Of The World - A
The Gift - A

Bargaining - A-
Afterlife - B
Flooded - A-
Life Serial - B+
All The Way - B
Once More, With Feeling - A+
Tabula Rasa - A-
Smashed - A
Wrecked - B-
Gone - B
Doublemeat Palace - C+
Dead Things - A-
Older And Far Away - B
As You Were - B+
Hell's Bells - A
Normal Again - B
Entropy - A+
Seeing Red - A+
Villains - A
Two To Go - A
Grave - A

Lessons - A-
Beneath You - B
Same Time, Same Place - A-
Help - A-
Selfless - A
Him - B
Conversations With Dead People - A-
Sleeper - A-
Never Leave Me - A-
Bring On The Night - B+
Showtime - B+
Potential - B+
The Killer In Me - A-
First Date - B
Get It Done - B
Storyteller - A+
Lies My Parents Told Me - A
Dirty Girls - A
Empty Places - A
Touched - A
End Of Days - A
Chosen - A
 
 
eric minutes
20:18 / 02.11.04
Hello...just had a quick question for the Buffy fans here,hope you can help...I've never really watched the show but I keep hearing great things and the more I hear...the more intersesting it sounds...I've seen the movie and I have some passing knowledge...I want to know if buying the first season is good idea?? Should I??
 
 
PatrickMM
22:07 / 02.11.04
Definitely buy it. Buffy is my second favorite TV series, and it's one of the best long form stories anywhere. The movie is complete crap, and the first series is a big jump over that, but it doesn't really hit its stride until season two. So, watch the first season, and even if you're not a huge fan, do season two. It's really a phenomenal series.
 
 
Billuccho!
23:12 / 02.11.04
Well, fine. If we're doing episode rankings, I may as well throw in my list. Of course, I did these from my memory of the episodes, and not necessarily after the episode itself... and it is subject to change. I went back and did so after I re-watched season six. We'll see if it changes when I watch s7 on DVD.

The Great Buffy Ratings List!
Score from 1-10

Season One
Welcome to the Hellmouth: 5
The Harvest: 5
The Witch: 5
Teacher’s Pet: 4
Never Kill a Boy on the First Date: 6
The Pack: 1
Angel: 8
I Robot, You Jane: 1
Puppet Show: 8
Nightmares: 8
Out of Mind, Out of Sight: 7
Prophecy Girl: 9

Season Two
When She Was Bad: 7
Some Assembly Required: 7
School Hard: 8
Inca Mummy Girl: 2
Reptile Boy: 7
Halloween: 7
Lie to Me: 6
The Dark Age: 6
What’s My Line? part one: 6
What’s My Line? part two: 6
Ted: 3
Bad Eggs: 3
Surprise: 6
Innocence: 9
Phases: 8
Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered: 8
Passion: 10
Killed by Death: 7
I Only Have Eyes for You: 8
Go Fish: 4
Becoming part one: 8
Becoming part two: 10

Season Three
Anne: 8
Dead Man’s Party: 7
Faith, Hope, and Trick: 8
Beauty & the Beasts: 3
Homecoming: 8
Band Candy: 8
Revelations: 8
Lover’s Walk: 8
The Wish: 9
Amends: 8
Gingerbread: 7
Helpless: 8
The Zeppo: 10
Bad Girls: 8
Consequences: 7
Doppelgangland: 8
Enemies: 8
Earshot: 9
Choices: 8
The Prom: 10
Graduation Day part one: 9
Graduation Day part two: 9

Season Four
The Freshman: 9
Living Conditions: 4
The Harsh Light of Day: 6
Fear, Itself: 7
Beer Bad: 5
Wild at Heart: 1
The Initiative: 8
Pangs: 9
Something Blue: 8
Hush: 10
Doomed: 6
A New Man: 8
The I in Team: 6
Goodbye Iowa: 4
This Year’s Girl: 7
Who Are You?: 6
Superstar: 7
Where the Wild Things Are: 6
New Moon Rising: 5
The Yoko Factor: 8
Primeval: 7
Restless: 10

Season Five
Buffy vs. Dracula: 3
Real Me: 7
The Replacement: 7
Out of My Head: 3
No Place like Home: 8
Family: 4
Fool for Love: 7
Shadow: 4
Listening to Fear: 2
Into the Woods: 5
Triangle: 9
Checkpoint: 9
Blood Ties: 8
Crush: 5
I Was Made to Love You: 5
The Body: 9
Forever: 7
Intervention: 9
Tough Love: 6
Spiral: 8
The Weight of the World: 8
The Gift: 10

Season Six
Bargaining part one: 7
Bargaining part two: 7
Afterlife: 8
Flooded: 7
Life Serial: 8
All the Way: 5
Once More with Feeling: 9
Tabula Rasa: 6
Smashed: 4
Wrecked: 2
Gone: 6
Doublemeat Palace: 7
Dead Things: 6
Older and Far Away: 6
As You Were: 4
Hell’s Bells: 4
Normal Again: 6
Entropy: 7
Seeing Red: 5
Villains: 7
Two to Go: 6
Grave: 5

Season Seven
Lessons: 5
Beneath You: 8
Same Time, Same Place: 4
Help: 7
Selfless: 10
Him: 4
Conversations with Dead People: 6
Sleeper: 7
Never Leave Me: 8
Bring on the Night: 7
Showtime: 5
Potential: 4
The Killer in Me: 1
First Date: 8
Get It Done: 5
Storyteller: 10
Lies My Parents Told Me: 7
Dirty Girls: 7
Empty Places: 2
Touched: 2
End of Days: 3
Chosen: 5
 
 
Billuccho!
23:15 / 02.11.04
In fact... yeah, some of those s6's should be higher. Seeing Red is easily a 9 to me, now. And the same goes for some latter s4 eps... they should be higher as well. *sigh* Time to re-evaluate the list!
 
 
Seth
10:12 / 03.11.04
Well reasoned, Buffy maniacs!

The reasoning has been done elsewhere, at length, and is not worth wasting my effort rehashing here. Just chipping in to say that this series is not going to be reassessed because life is too short. Much too short.

Jesus. Rewatch around sixteen hours of television that I hated just to contribute to a thread? I repeat, never going to happen. Especially as I tend to avoid Buffy repeats of seasons that I did like first time around. It just hasn't aged well, already feels as shabby as ST:TNG.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
15:50 / 03.11.04
So, with some perspective, perhaps we can discuss the season, and see where it worked and where it failed.

Thank you for your contribution, Shat!
 
 
Seth
16:55 / 03.11.04
The reasoning has been done elsewhere, at length

Count the topics, dude. There's nothing more to be said.
 
 
PatrickMM
00:24 / 04.11.04
I don't have letter grades, but I did a ranking of episodes when I rewatched the series, and it's reproduced here. Season six deosn't have as many completely outstanding episode, but it's much higher on average.

1 Restless 4x22
2 Once More With Feeling 6x07
3 Becoming Part II 2x22
4 Passion 2x17
5 The Body 5x16
6 Becoming Part I 2x21
7 Innocence 2x14
8 Seeing Red 6x19
9 The Gift 5x22
10 Wild at Heart 4x06
11 Fool for Love 5x07
12 Conversations with Dead People 7x07
13 Graduation Day II 3x22
14 Surprise 2x13
15 Selfless 7x05
16 Chosen 7x22
17 Who Are You? 4x16
18 Amends 3x10
19 Entropy 6x18
20 Lover's Walk 3x08
21 Graduation Day I 3x21
22 Dead Things 6x13
23 Storyteller 7x16
24 New Moon Rising 4x19
25 Lie to Me 2x07
26 Normal Again 6x17
27 Intervention 5x18
28 Dopplegangland 3x16
29 The Wish 3x09
30 Bewitched, Bothered, Bewildered 2x16
31 Tabula Rasa 6x08
32 Crush 5x14
33 When She Was Bad 2x01
34 I Was Made to Love You 5x15
35 Villains 6x20
36 Bargaining Part I 6x01
37 Earshot 3x18
38 Family 5x06
39 The Prom 3x20
40 The Zeppo 3x13
41 Afterlife 6x03
42 Hush 4x10
43 Older and Far Away 6x14
44 Superstar 4x17
45 Primeval 4x21
46 Hell's Bells 6x16
47 Tough Love 5x19
48 Choices 3x19
49 Lies My Parents Told Me 7x17
50 Grave 6x22
51 Halloween 2x06
52 Smashed 6x09
53 Bargaining Part II 6x02
54 Flooded 6x04
55 Blood Ties 5x13
56 Spiral 5x20
57 Out of My Mind 5x04
58 Enemies 3x17
59 Two to Go 6x21
60 Angel 1x07
61 Bad Girls 3x14
62 The Dark Age 2x08
63 I Only Have Eyes For You 2x19
64 Prochecy Girl 1x12
65 Buffy vs. Dracula 5x01
66 Beneath You 7x02
67 Life Serial 6x05
68 The Initiative 4x07
69 Helpless 3x12
70 School Hard 2x03
71 Band Candy 3x06
72 Forever 5x17
73 Doublemeat Palace 6x12
74 Never Leave Me 7x09
75 This Year's Girl 4x15
76 The Replacement 5x03
77 Him 7x06
78 Wrecked 6x10
79 Into the Woods 5x10
80 All the Way 6x06
81 The Real Me 5x02
82 Consequences 3x15
83 Gone 6x11
84 Touched 7x20
85 The I In Team 4x13
86 What's My Line? Part II 2x10
87 The Yoko Factor 4x20
88 The Harsh Light of Day 4x03
89 Something Blue 4x09
90 Gingerbread 3x11
91 Phases 2x15
92 What's My Line? Part I 2x09
93 Revelations 3x07
94 Fear Itself 4x04
95 Triangle 5x12
96 Help 7x04
97 Dirty Girls 7x18
98 No Place Like Home 5x05
99 Goodbye Iowa 4x14
100 Faith, Hope and Trick 3x03
101 End of Days 7x21
102 First Date 7x14
103 Pangs 4x08
104 As You Were 6x15
105 Empty Places 7x19
106 Shadow 5x08
107 Some Assembly Required 2x02
108 The Harvest 1x02
109 The Weight of the World 5x21
110 Never Kill a Boy on the First Date 1x05
111 Anne 3x01
112 Checkpoint 5x12
113 A New Man 4x12
114 Go Fish 2x20
115 Dead Man's Party 3x02
116 The Killer in Me 7x13
117 Same Time, Same Place 7x03
118 Inca Mummy Girl 2x04
119 Bad Eggs 2x12
120 Lessons 7x01
121 Welcome to the Hellmouth 1x01
122 Homecoming 3x05
123 Sleeper 7x08
124 Doomed 4x11
125 The Freshman 4x01
126 Where the Wild Things Are 4x18
127 Reptile Boy 2x05
128 Listening to Fear 5x09
129 Witch 1x03
130 Out of Mind, Out of Sight 1x11
131 Ted 2x11
132 Beauty and the Beasts 3x04
133 Teacher's Pet 1x04
134 Potential 7x12
135 Killed by Death 2x18
136 The Puppet Show 1x09
137 Get it Done 7x15
138 Living Conditions 4x02
139 I Robot…You Jane 1x08
140 Bring on the Night 7x10
141 The Pack 1x06
142 Showtime 7x11
143 Nightmares 1x10
144 Beer Bad 4x05

And here's the average for each season:
1: 27.166
2: 77.409
3: 81.5
4: 65.9
5: 81.72
6: 96.727
7: 56.409
 
 
Seth
08:34 / 04.11.04
Jesus. I guess the statistics prove it conclusively. I'm truly sorry, Barbelith. What was I thinking?

Can we have a graph?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:16 / 04.11.04
Can we have a graph that coplots marks for various episodes against the distance between the nipples of the people marking it?

Like Seth I have no desire to watch an entirely awful season of Buffy merely to talk about how awful it is, so I'm doing this from memory...

One of the revolutionary ideas Joss Whedon had was to use the revolutionary idea that JMS had, that you can actually use continuity in sci-fi fantasy and the audience will go with it. It wasn't just for your Dawson Creeks or your soaps. In parts of season 4, season 5, and season 6 they forget this. The clearest example I can give is Giles and Xander in season 4. They spend the entire season wondering how they can still be a useful part of Buffy's life when they aren't college types. This leads to things like Xander being a barman in 'Beer Bad', and is the basis of the storyline in 'A New Man'. That ends with Buffy telling Giles she does need him, but then next episode it's back to worrying Giles, because of the position he needs to be in in 'The Yoko Factor' where they all split up.

In season six, Buffy spends the entire season depressed because she's not in Heaven any more. This would be okay if we didn't have the climax of 'Once More With Feeling' where she would have committed suicide if not for Spike. The secrets are out. Everything is different, except it isn't. Buffy's left to be miserable until the last episode, when suddenly she decides she's going to be happy from now on.

Buffy is weak when character continuity gets ignored in favour of tying storylines to the structure of a season. The reason season three rocks is that it does change through the season, we introduce Faith, we reintroduce Angel, we have Faith go bad, we introduce the mayor, we link Faith to the Mayor, we have the Mayor scheming, we have the Scobbies find out about the Mayor, and Faith... With the exception of the Dark Willow episodes you can largely watch most of season six in almost any order.

Sarah Michelle Gellar is not that great an actor. It's partly her, it's partly the character of Buffy. The show suffers when supporting characters get taken out and not replaced and she has more to do. By season six we've lost Joyce, an external-to-the-main-cast boyfriend, Giles and then we loose Tara. SMG just wobbles her lip a lot and goes on with the script.

Somewhere, probably towards the end of season four, someone in the crew gets the idea that Buffy is a hero. This is admittedly Flyboy's idea, so I might ask him to expand on this, but from this point on Buffy is right because she's the hero, which is a really bad idea. Buffy isn't a hero, she's a rich brat that is only better than Harmony because she makes friends with people like Willow and Andrew. She's a weapon, to be aimed by people like the Watchers and let go. The nadir of this is season seven, when we have her lambasting the spirits of the people that made the Slayer, because they were men that dared to create something that could fight evil, and her leading the Potentials for no other reason than her being Buffy. But season six has episodes like the one where the woman from child services comes to audit the house and realises Buffy is completely unfit as Dawn's guardian, then Buffy goes invisible and spends a while persecuting the woman in her office.

I'm not even going anywhere near the whole Buffy/Spike storyline and the 'rape' scene.Let's just point out that in season seven Buffy herself admits it wasn't rape and leave it at that.

Giles leaving. Well, it was always going to be difficult, what with five previous seasons emphasising Giles' role being at Buffy's side. Writing a script about Giles realising he's got to step aside because he's stopping Buffy develop as a Slayer when we have the climax of 'OMWF' is the height of stupidity.

That's what comes to mind for now...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:35 / 04.11.04
I'm going to go away and rank all the Buffy threads on Barbelith.

This one gets a D.

This one's a lot better.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:42 / 04.11.04
Good things about Buffy Season 6:

a) Most of the songs in 'OMWF' are pretty great. Shame about the rest of that episode, in retrospect.

b) The line "Time, Mr Spike, is what turns kittens into cats!"

c) It's not Season 7.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:47 / 04.11.04
You know what I love most about Season 6? The way it was so realistic! I really love the way they made Buffy deal with real life, mundane, everyday problems! Like when she had no money, and so she got a job that would have paid minimum wage, and then after a while it was never mentioned again! Or the way that that woman came to see if Buffy was fit to be Dawn's guardian, and it was clear that she wasn't, so it was never mentioned again! So realistic!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:51 / 04.11.04
Just looking at Flux's grades... 'Flooded' better than 'Becoming Pt 1'? Whuh?

Oh, we old school Buffy fans, we've canonised those early classic episodes and we can't accept that later ones could be as good! Nonsense. Angel season 4 wipes the floor with anything that came before. It's not nostalgia. It's just BEING RIGHT.
 
 
PatrickMM
20:40 / 04.11.04
One of the revolutionary ideas Joss Whedon had was to use the revolutionary idea that JMS had, that you can actually use continuity in sci-fi fantasy and the audience will go with it. It wasn't just for your Dawson Creeks or your soaps. In parts of season 4, season 5, and season 6 they forget this. The clearest example I can give is Giles and Xander in season 4. They spend the entire season wondering how they can still be a useful part of Buffy's life when they aren't college types. This leads to things like Xander being a barman in 'Beer Bad', and is the basis of the storyline in 'A New Man'. That ends with Buffy telling Giles she does need him, but then next episode it's back to worrying Giles, because of the position he needs to be in in 'The Yoko Factor' where they all split up.

I don't think that Giles example is neccessarily a problem. The events of a 'A New Man' did convince him that he had a place in Buffy's life, but then we go through the Initiative arc, where Buffy fights for them. These episodes place Buffy in a place where she's backed up by more force than Giles could ever provide. It puts him in a situation where he questions his purpose. Even though Buffy clearly still loves him, as shown in 'A New Man,' he still isn't really needed in her life in season four. The arc is resolved in season five, when Buffy reintensifies her training, thus validating his position as watcher.

In season six, Buffy spends the entire season depressed because she's not in Heaven any more. This would be okay if we didn't have the climax of 'Once More With Feeling' where she would have committed suicide if not for Spike. The secrets are out. Everything is different, except it isn't. Buffy's left to be miserable until the last episode, when suddenly she decides she's going to be happy from now on.

So, you're saying that just telling her friends she was in heaven should instantly make things better? I think it makes perfect sense that she'd be further alienated from her friends. How do they react to the news that they pulled her from heaven? Willow withdraws into magic, Xander and Anya focus on their own problems, leaving Buffy essentially alone, until she goes with Spike. The first step to recovery might be admitting you have a problem, but admitting alone shouldn't make her better. Keep in mind the way OMWF ends, Buffy leaves her friends, who she trouble relating to, goes out to Spike and sings, "I know this isn't real, but I just want to feel."

Buffy is weak when character continuity gets ignored in favour of tying storylines to the structure of a season. With the exception of the Dark Willow episodes you can largely watch most of season six in almost any order.

I think that's just not true. Obviously, the Willow/Tara stuff changes, and so do Xander and Anya, but there really is an evolution of Buffy over the season. At first, she's numb, completely overwhelmed by being back, she gets drawn to Spike, and engages in that relationship just to feel. Once she's finished with Spike, she's a good way out of the depression, but the Xander/Anya breakup into the next episode plunges her down a bit. Without the Spike relationship, she was clinging to Xander and Anya as the light at the end of the tunnel that show a relationship can work. The chain of events that that sets up would obviously lead to depression. I think it makes sense that Buffy would come out of the depression at the end becuase she has a renewed sense of purpose, saving Willow, and, in talking to Giles, I think she steps back and sees things from a new perspective. She talks jokingly about the events of the season, and this helps her to get back on the right track.

I'll admit there's some shoddy continuity around Gone, like she breaks off the relationship with Spike in Wrecked, then is instantly back to it in Gone, but it all holds together fairly well. Now, I could understand the idea that Xander and Anya don't really go anywhere until Hell's Bells, and Dawn does very little over the course of the season, but Xander very rarely does anything, at least in the later years of the show, and I think they never really figured out a role for Dawn after she stopped being the key.

Somewhere, probably towards the end of season four, someone in the crew gets the idea that Buffy is a hero. This is admittedly Flyboy's idea, so I might ask him to expand on this, but from this point on Buffy is right because she's the hero, which is a really bad idea. Buffy isn't a hero, she's a rich brat that is only better than Harmony because she makes friends with people like Willow and Andrew. She's a weapon, to be aimed by people like the Watchers and let go. The nadir of this is season seven, when we have her lambasting the spirits of the people that made the Slayer, because they were men that dared to create something that could fight evil, and her leading the Potentials for no other reason than her being Buffy.

I heartily agree with this. One of the reasons I love season six so much is becuase Buffy isn't a hero, she's more of a person. By season seven, all the humanity is stripped away and she becomes an almost mythical figure.

Giles leaving. Well, it was always going to be difficult, what with five previous seasons emphasising Giles' role being at Buffy's side. Writing a script about Giles realising he's got to step aside because he's stopping Buffy develop as a Slayer when we have the climax of 'OMWF' is the height of stupidity.

I agree with you, the ending of OMWF does contradict what comes later, but, I think you can clearly see Giles is uncomfortable playing the father for Buffy and Dawn. Once he gets a taste of independence, I think it's tough to be plunged into a situation where he basically has to clean up the huge mess that Buffy has. As much as he loves her, I think it just overwhelms him. He sees Buffy using him as a crutch and thinks that maybe she does have to make it on her own, she's never going to do that if he holds her hand, so he throws her in the deep end, and she can't really swim. It's a judgment call, he figured Buffy needed to learn how to do things on her own, clearly it was the wrong judgment, and I think he realizes that at the end of the season.

One of my favorite scenes from that last episode is after Giles complimenting Buffy's hair, Anya says she changed hers too, like a younger sibling trying to get the attention of her dad. That end of season six is the last time that the Buffy gang really feels like family, in seven they become sort of a military unit, and the loss of that sense of famly really hurts the show.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:11 / 04.11.04
The reason Season Six is disliked by a lot of people who'd watched everything up until that point:

Season Four: Buffy's depressed, lonely, doesn't know her place in the world, going through growing pains.

Season Five: Buffy's depressed, lonely, doesn't know her place in the world, going through growing pains.

End of Season Five: Dies. Audience knows she's coming back straight away, looks forwards to Buffy: Rebirth.

Pre-Season Six: Still looking forwards to Buffy: Rebirth.

Season Six: Buffy's depressed, lonely, doesn't know her place in the world, going through growing pains.

They gave the title character exactly the same (lack of) motivation that she'd had for the previous two years and expected the fan-base audience to lap it up. And, what's more, Gellar simply wasn't up to the task of acting depressed for three years and making the audience care.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:43 / 04.11.04
Exactly.
 
 
eddie thirteen
05:49 / 05.11.04
Um...speaking of colossal depression. Sorry I didn't even notice the thread that I'd inadvertantly gotten started; I was kinda distracted by this whole real life apocalypse thing the past few days.

I should say I agree with the high points of season six as outlined in the first post, pretty much point by point -- it's just that there's a whoooollllle lot of season around the dramatic high watermarks, and most of it (to me, anyway) is so heavy on the dirgelike sturm und drang and NOTHING ELSE that it's actually unwatchable. Literally: I watched it all on disc (having missed it the first time around) and found myself first chapter-skipping and then episode-skipping when an episode got too shitty, which happened at least three times (the titles escape me, but the one where the Trio pulls some annoying Groundhog Day shit on Our Heroine jumps immediately to mind...Jesus Christ. I KNOW I would never have made it through the commercials).

That the show was a serious downer was bad enough. That the show was a boring and predictable downer pretty much violates the primary rule of entertainment -- that it actually be entertaining. Buffy in season six made you the viewer feel as though you were working for minimum wage in a fast food restaurant: the only things you could rely on were that you'd feel worse walking out than you did walking in, and that whatever you gained from the experience couldn't possibly compensate you for having slogged through it. In that sense, I suppose we were made to empathize with the main character; but who the fuck would want to? Depressed, miserable wage-slave Buffy worked brilliantly in "Anne," but that was one episode -- not 22. Dark Willow does make up for a lot, but frankly, I think much of the appeal of the last episodes has to do with the fact that things are actually...you know...happening. Finally.

And don't even get me started on the totally arbitrary "plot twists." Giles leaving makes no sense whatsoever when so much was made of reinstating him as Buffy's watcher the previous season. For that matter, Buffy working fast food makes no sense whatsoever when one pauses to reflect that the watchers evidenly get paid...you mean to tell me there's no slush fund for the people who actually, you know, kill the vampires? Xander leaving Anya at the altar might have worked if every conceivable angle on his insecurities hadn't already been played out...as it stood, the development came off as a surprise only because nothing in the story hinted at it. (Surprises that come because a character is no longer in character are not the hallmarks of fine drama, nor realism. Conversely, the attempted rape on Spike's part does work, regardless of how many people loathe it, because it is in character...just because we've kinda forgotten that he's evil doesn't mean that he's now a good guy.)

Plus, I was rooting for Willow to kill Johnathan and Andrew because they were so fucking annoying it hurt me.
 
  

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