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Schizophrenics can't process metaphor

 
  

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Ganesh
16:20 / 23.09.04
Does Baudrillard write about Asperger's Syndrome too? I ask because, according to Cameron, several posts up, George has apparently used it interchangeably here with "schizophrenia" - and I'm wondering if that's got a cultural studies meaning too...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:24 / 23.09.04
I refer you to Lyotard's Quantas Don't Crash: The inhuman, the post-human, the cyborg and that kid who can draw houses really well. It's not strictly speaking about Asperger's, but it's close enough for our purposes.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:39 / 23.09.04
But that's what Baudrillard and for all I know Deleuze did, too.

P.S. Nah. Baudrillard used schizophrenia as a metaphor. George *could* have done that, but as Ganesh says above, doesn't. Rather, he imputes an actual medical condition, the symptoms of which he misstates, to people. I would certainly be happy to accept that he got confused between cult. studs. (who doesn't some days) and psychiatry, but that's hardly an improvement. Our multi-dimensional voodoo sex gods are supposed to have a better handle on this stuff...
 
 
Haus of Mystery
17:06 / 23.09.04
"that kid who can draw houses really well"

(Off topic)
Haus, can you do me a favour and dredge up that boy's name (the one who used to be on Blue Peter)? I was trying to find something out about him the other day and was fruitless. I just know you'll be able to remember. Use your super-powers.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:27 / 23.09.04
Oh, I've been following the thread but mostly tuning out the medical analysis of schizophrenia. I just tune into the questing beast stuff and the discussion of market trends. And the way I see it, like most Americans, most people don't like to be challenged in art or music, and mediocre stuff or just plain crap usually reigns in terms of what achieves mainstream success. Look at most of Hollywood's output. Or music. Or books. I think this is what Grant is talking about in broad strokes, and I pretty much hate reality TV too, so I'm fine with blaming part of it on stupid reality TV!! Take that, reality TV! Putting actual scriptwriters out of work and catering to our trashiest instincts, you should be ashamed of yourself!
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:32 / 23.09.04
Isn't that just the sheeple argument?

Alternatively: most people like to read stuff that has a coherent narrative and all you've got here is a bloke who can't accept that he's not the genius he believes himself to be.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:27 / 24.09.04
Life must be a much simpler place when you're Ralph Wiggum. Lalalalala, I'm just tuning out all the parts of this thread (and, like, THE WORLD) that don't fit in with my extremely simplistic and self-serving worldview!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:05 / 24.09.04
Let's try again, Finderwolf.

Grant Morrison says nothing about being disappointed by sales of Seaguy. He says he is disappointed that comic book readers did not *get* Seaguy, because they have not read mediaeval literature. He is not blaming reality TV. He is identifying reality TV (incorectly) as a symptom supporting his (incorrect) diagnosis of mass schizophrenia.

Have you read any mediaeval literature, Finderwolf? I'm ready to guess no. You misunderstood the idea of the questing beast, for starters, although I think George might have as well, so you're in the very best company. That means that Grant Morrison hates you. You are driving him out of writing comic books, at which he is very good, and making him want to write prose, at which he is nowhere near as good.

It's your fault.

Now, copies of Le Morte d'Arthur are available at shops everywhere. Hie you hence.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:17 / 24.09.04
Have you read any mediaeval literature, Finderwolf? I'm ready to guess no. You misunderstood the idea of the questing beast, for starters, although I think George might have as well, so you're in the very best company.

I don't think you need be snobby to Finderwolf about this. Morrison shouldn't be trying to namedrop stuff he doesn't understand, but I don't think a lack of acquaintance with mediaeval literature (or indeed medical definitions of schizophrenia) is otherwise something to be ashamed of. I don't know anything about either, but I have to assume I was reading something else, perhaps equally worthwhile, at the time instead.


I'm sure you were only being jokily haughty, Haus, but your lordly manner isn't encouraging me to investigate the field -- which I can imagine might in fact be very rewarding if it were recommended more gently.
 
 
Ganesh
08:29 / 24.09.04
Yes, be more jokily lordly, Haus. And throw in a few cod-psychiatric terms. Then we may investigate medieval literature and find you worthy of worship.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:47 / 24.09.04
Dude, I was totally joking, although clearly my sights were a little high.

This is, in brief, the discontinuity of concept and percept identifiable as the comic trigger. I don't understand why Grant Morrison is complaining that his readers haven't read mediaeval literature when a) it seems possible that his grasp on it is a bit shaky, b) it's such a very odd thing to expect his readers to have read and c) it is clear that many people have read Seaguy and been able to discuss it without having first attacked Piers Ploughman. I mean, I'd like everyone to have read the Iliad, but that's because I really like it and I enjoy talking about it. I'm not going to dismiss somebody's opinion about the Legion of Super Heroes because they don't immediately get my cunning references to the Pylaimenes episode. Especially if I thought Pylaimenes was the King of Crete.

So, that's gag the first. Gag the second is that the swingball set are now going "But George is just saying that people aren't CLEVER enough to appreciate his BEAUTIFUL THINGS, and he's right. Oh, God, he's right. And handsome. If only everyone appreciated him like I did." which I find odd, given that they are lacking in the areas George is saying are important for "getting" Seaguy - that is, a knowledge of medieval literature. They are trying to turn it into the élite (including themselves and George) versus the proles (everyone else) - as Dupre says, the "sheeple" argument, which I think does Morrison a disservice, especially because, in case anyone has forgotten, Seaguy is a full-colour comic book produced by one of the two biggest comic publishing houses in the USA. It's not like you have had to travel to a decommissioned nuclear reactor in Irkutsk in order to watch Matthew Barney wrestling George Plimpton in an olympic swimming pool filled with jam.

So, if the swingball set want to be in the balloon with George (Morrison, not Plimpton) looking down on the scum, they had better start boning up on The Pearl, because right now they are the problem.

The irony being that Morrison is depending, probably unconsciously, on the very lack of interest in reading outside comic books ("oh, I'm not interested in the discussion about schizophrenia... ") that keeps his readers unable to and uninterested in recognising his less informed pronouncements as twaddle.

There's a salutary example in the Anne Rice reference. As I have said before, rarely was my respect for Morrison greater than when, having been told by his editor that leSexy, the project he had been plugging for some time, was a pointless, inferior retread of ideas he had explored better elsewhere, he looked at it again, accepted that the editor was right, stopped trying to get it published and moved on to the next project.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:11 / 24.09.04
>> Life must be a much simpler place when you're Ralph Wiggum. Lalalalala, I'm just tuning out all the parts of this thread (and, like, THE WORLD) that don't fit in with my extremely simplistic and self-serving worldview!

Now, now, I didn't entirely tune them out, just skimmed them - although a dissertation on what constitutes medical schizophrenia is fascinating, don't get me wrong. And I don't see how my view on this subject is 'self-serving', but I know you're just yanking my chain, previously-known-as-Flyboy...

Is it too much to suggest that we're over-discussing all this a bit?
 
 
Jack Fear
17:14 / 24.09.04
[ rot ] The Boy Who Draws Buildings is named Stephen Wiltshire. [ /rot ]
 
 
Ganesh
18:27 / 24.09.04
although a dissertation on what constitutes medical schizophrenia is fascinating, don't get me wrong.

I think you're confusing "dissertation" with "definition" here.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:33 / 24.09.04
Or even using it interchangably with 'discussion', yes. I cede that point happily.
 
 
Ganesh
19:49 / 24.09.04
Otherwise I'd have submitted a printout of this thread as 60% of my MRCPsych.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:53 / 24.09.04
LOL! Nice one.
 
 
eddie thirteen
19:58 / 24.09.04
I have to admit, though, the discussion in: re Morrison and his would-be worshippers does seem a bit vitriolic and over the top. There may indeed be a legion of asskissers here, but I've seen many more accusations of same in this thread than I have actual posts that sound as though they were written by people willing to accept Morrison's goofiest pronouncements as though they were graven on stone tablets and found perched and teetering atop Mount Sinai. If, in fact, Mount Sinai is the mountain I'm thinking of...not being a Bible scholar or anything (and it is my understanding that a thorough reading of the Talmud is the only possible way to reap full comprehension and enjoyment from Gen13 #1-#5), I could be off-base here. My apologies, if so. Point being, it reads to me like more than a few people here are kinda putting words into the mouths of those who do not necessarily share their views.

For my own part, I'll propose three possible reasons why Seaguy did not elicit the response Morrison desired, none of them having anything to do schizophrenia, mad cow disease, or any order disorder that may impede one's ability to appreciate a pamphlet. (1) Since Morrison has bemoaned the response to every series he has ever written, ever, nothing could conceivably satisfy this ego-driven, inhuman monster save vigorous head from every person who has read his work. No spitting, either. (2) Seaguy sucked. (I wouldn't know, not having read it, which leads me to -- ) (3) The average part-time (as opposed to fulltime) fanboy, not addicted to Batman, the X-Men, Spider-Man, or anything else that is published three times a week, now usually buys trade paperbacks, which are more easily stored, more durable, more easily mistaken by the casual observer for literature, and which can be procured without having to descend into the locker room hell that is the average comic book store. Such a person, I posit, is more likely to enjoy something unusual (i.e., not Batman, the X-Men, or Spider-Man), and such a person (such as me) has not even read the book yet. Such a person may still hate it if 2 is in fact the case, which it may well be. However, if 2 is not the case, but 1 is -- and it may well be -- no amount of admiration may be sufficient to avoid a future interview in which Morrison blames the decline in cultural standards on an illness he faintly understands, but which he attributes to his detractors...which, when you think about it, is really kinda mean, since the implication is that one is him/herself actually at fault for being schizophrenic. It's a little like pointing and laughing at someone's hunchback. And everyone knows making fun of hunchbacks is wrong.
 
 
Ganesh
20:36 / 24.09.04
LOL! Nice one.

It's good that you appreciate my japery; it's a sign that you don't have Alzheimer's Disease.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:40 / 24.09.04
Is that the one where you can't tell the difference between smells and colours?
 
 
Ganesh
20:43 / 24.09.04
Tt. If you'd read Baudrillard, you wouldn't have to ask that.
 
 
bio k9
04:25 / 27.09.04
Japery?! I don't appreciate the anti Japanese sediment, Ganesh.
 
 
Lord Morgue
07:24 / 27.09.04
The last time I heard such a load of old cods it was me, calling "Ring of Fire 2: Blood and Steel" starring Don "The Dragon" Wilson a brave retelling of the Orpheus myth.
Sigh. I love you, Barbelith!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:50 / 27.09.04
it was me, calling "Ring of Fire 2: Blood and Steel" starring Don "The Dragon" Wilson a brave retelling of the Orpheus myth.

It is. Clearly, you are suffering from MPD, and that none of your multiple personalities is familiar with The Dream of the Emperor Macsen.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:21 / 27.09.04
I don't see how my view on this subject is 'self-serving'

Because you position yourself in the small, enlightened minority of people who 'get' sophisticated work like the comics of Grant Morrison, unlike "most Americans" who can't cope with it because it's too challenging.
 
 
Ganesh
11:56 / 27.09.04
Japery?! I don't appreciate the anti Japanese sediment, Ganesh.

You are clearly schizophrenic.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:11 / 27.09.04
I'm too busy having delusions of grandeur because I like what I like and rejoicing because I don't have schizophrenia to be self-serving.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
16:44 / 27.09.04
Oh, go find a wolf or something.

 
 
Ganesh
16:55 / 27.09.04
All schizophrenics say that, FinderWolf.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:23 / 27.09.04
THEY DO~!?!?!? (Oh, shit, that's where the 'paranoid' in 'paranoid schizophrenic' comes in, isn't it?!?!)
 
 
Ganesh
19:03 / 27.09.04
No, the term 'paranoid' derives from the fact that some schizophrenics don't get Brendan McCarthy's Paradax either.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
16:23 / 28.09.04
(Rot)
Thanks a lot Jack, It's been driving me round the bend trying to remember him.

No thanks to you Haus.
(end rot, although this thread is pretty fucking rotten already)
 
 
FinderWolf
16:51 / 30.09.04
In related Morrison news, former Catwoman writer (he just quit), Sleeper writer and about-to-be Capt. America writer Ed Brubaker had this to say regarding Grant Morrison interviews:

>> As much as I wince when I read a Grant Morrison interview and seems to shit all over the kind of comics I do, and says that comics should be reserved for the people with mad ideas and grand designs….part of me agrees with him when I read that. I’ve been striving for the last few years to teach myself to give the artist something exciting to draw every issue. It’s harder on Gotham Central, but with Sleeper, I was putting in a lot of over the top stuff for Sean to draw.
 
 
Krug
08:17 / 01.10.04
Now that I think of it, Gregory can be such an ass.
 
 
Krug
09:42 / 10.10.04
Read the interview "Bush" posted a link to.

Grant talks about a six issue return to Animal Man, a Spiderman story and stuff that never happened.

Anyone know anything about them?

It was funny though.
 
  

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