Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Comic Books >

Astonishing X-Men #4

Page: 1(2)3

Nietzsch E. Coyote

21:08 / 27.08.04

And where the hell are the ugly mutants? Grr.

All lined up for the cure.

21:22 / 27.08.04

Yes, that's the thing... would the cure make all the ugly mutants into pretty "normal" people, or just take away their powers and leave them looking like giant, um, shrimp, or something? If they never had a normal body to begin with, does the cure just shapeshift them into one? Bah.

Nietzsch E. Coyote

21:38 / 27.08.04

In GM's run the ugly mutants generally had no powers so if this is going to be at all consistant it SHOULD make em normal.

21:45 / 27.08.04

Glob Herman had powers, and he was pretty ugly if you ask me. He could never live up to the unrealistic media stereotype of male beauty that I hold him and all X-Gene positives up to.

21:45 / 27.08.04

Bill, of course I listen to your comments. you make interesting comments.

Is gud.

Perhaps your worries that Joss is becoming a parody of whedon is more to do with your familiarity with his writing than repetition on is part. A slight distinction but a distinction nonetheless.

I listened to Gaimbit make the same complaint down the pub tother day. I know where you're both coming from (totally with on the Bendis thing), but I just don't care.

23:07 / 27.08.04

Hmm. I suppose. #4 was technically good, I'm just a bit soured on the major defining spoiler basically having been plastered all over town. The issue didn't leave as much of an impact on me as the previous two had, though. Not that I'll drop the book anytime soon, though, as it's Whedon, and I am interested in where it's going... I just wish they didn't feel the constant necessity to bring back dead characters.

Matthew Fluxington

13:58 / 28.08.04

when Colossus drops to his knees and hugs Kitty. I swear to God it's taken straight from an early season three episode of Buffy, subsituting in the X-Men instead of Angel and the Buffster.

You're confusing the standard stuff of drama for something which you believe to be essentially Buffy, which is a mistake. One of Whedon's strengths is that he's a pretty old fashioned storyteller, and thus goes back to the images and emotional bits that work, the stuff that gets passed down from books and comics and movies. He's all about resonance, and a lot of that has to do with what we remember and understand good stories to be.

Matthew Fluxington

14:00 / 28.08.04

By the way, I do think that someone is going to get stabbed with the "cure," I just don't think it will be Henry. And if it is, it won't be the "cure" we expect it to be, ie Henry goes back to being a normal human. And even if that's true, how does a body change shape and structure so radically so quickly? Wouldn't he have to go through a lengthy mutation process just to revert?

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:50 / 28.08.04

Speaking of someone who really enjoyed this issue, and is loving the shit out of Whedon's run in general, I think it's pretty undeniable that there are some things in this issue that remind anyone who sat through all 11 seasons of the WhedonVampireverse of moments from those two shows: Colossus on his kneeds hoping he's dead made me think simultaneously of Faith collapsing onto Angel ("kill me, please"), Spike's "can we rest now, Buffy?", even Buffy's unhappiness with her own resurrection (Whedon and co have always been big on bringing people back a LOT but always making sure you show the fall-out); Ord wants to leave a message for the X-Men in exactly the same way Angelus famously wanted to leave a message for Buffy. But none of this matters, really - it certainly shouldn't detract from anyone's enjoyment of this series, because as Matthew says, these are pretty classic images/ideas.

I almost have a very minor complaint about the fact that the mansion seems to have been left completely abandonned, but I'll overlook that because genuine tension and terror is created by the thought of what kind of carnage Ord could be creating off-panel.

Cassady really puts the fucking work in. I hope Hisako is still breathing next issue.

Here's my own theory on how Colossus might be back: where did Henry McCoy last see Dr Rao? In Berlin. At the cloning seminar.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:53 / 28.08.04

One more thing: it strikes me that even without that 'foiler' image of Jean, Whedon did a very good job of pointing us in the wrong direction by filling issue #3 with references to Morrison's run: Cassandra Nova, Xorneto, "why does nothing ever stay buried?" So nobody expected him to be looking earlier than that for stroies to pick up again...

15:22 / 28.08.04

Fluxy, ooh you annoying man you.

...And even if that's true, how does a body change shape and structure so radically so quickly?

Look, why is it, do you think, that Whedon showed us just how fast the cure works. For fun? For frolics? Or to prime us for an X-Man going down the second they're stabbed?
I mean, wouldn't wings biology have to change significantly in a very short space of time in order for him to lose his ability to fly? He might not have blue fur but I'd say his physiology would have to be pretty bloody different from, say, my own.

Not really sure what I'm arguing here, other than I don't think you can count Beast out as a candidate for a dose of hope (in the face).

And if it is, it won't be the "cure" we expect it to be, ie Henry goes back to being a normal human.

Something I've been arguing for weeks.

...but I'll overlook that because genuine tension and terror is created by the thought of what kind of carnage Ord could be creating off-panel.

I was happy to overlook it for the very same reason.
Whedon is great at creating nightmarish scenarios.

Regrettable Juvenilia

19:17 / 28.08.04

I also love that we see the crab-boy as previously mentioned, and how tragic and pathetic he looks. "Repent." Poor sod.

On the Henry/cure question: I don't know whether he'll get injected or not, but anyone who seriously thinks it would happen because Whedon and Quesada cut some kind of dodgy behind-the-scenes deal does need their head examined. If it happens, it'll be like Ben Grimm in 1234, all the way. It'll end with Henry having to take an antidote to the cure to save the day, and bursting into a room all blue and flurry in a big Cassady action panel. Mark my words.

20:00 / 28.08.04

I was on the fence, about Whedon's run. I love his writing style but the first two issues left me luke warm. Third was better but the promise of Jean coming back kinda worried me. I'm sold now. Hopefully this will go down in X-History as one of the best runs on the characters.

Matthew Fluxington

22:13 / 28.08.04

Colossus on his kneeds hoping he's dead made me think simultaneously of Faith collapsing onto Angel ("kill me, please")

I just saw that episode for the first time today, and I thought, 'oh, right, yes.'

I think that Flyboy is on the right track re: Henry, Rao, and Colossus.

00:03 / 29.08.04

Whatever happens, Flyboy is right.

I'm listening to the Rocky Horror soundtrack at the min, and Henry is Dr X.

01:45 / 29.08.04

GUD DOG

Yo, how many issues is Whedon signed on for and when is the trade paperback due out?

01:51 / 29.08.04

Twelve issues. There's a possibility of him doing more.

Trade? After issue six, I imagine. Most likely going to have a 12-issue hardcover when it's all wrapped up, as well.

02:11 / 29.08.04

>> And if it is, it won't be the "cure" we expect it to be, ie Henry goes back to being a normal human.

I agree totally with Flux here. Henry won't get turned back to a normal human, and I don't feel it's certain that Henry will get de-volved to big-foot Beastie. But if he does get shot with the cure, I vote he goes back to big-foot but still a mutant, somehow. Ah, the speculation is fun... and of course, I'm well aware that it's all speculation at this point.

And I think the poster who posted the theoretical JQ and JW negotiating session was making a joke, BTW.

13:22 / 29.08.04

I just read this. I had heard no spoilers. I'm a huge Colossus fan.

Good gods, but that was great surprise!

That scene where Kitty puts her hand on her heart was just beautiful.

18:21 / 29.08.04

And I think the poster who posted the theoretical JQ and JW negotiating session was making a joke, BTW.

Indeed. Still, I do think it's more likely than not that Beast will be regressed to his classic "blue-furred ape with Wolverine's hairdo" look. We all know it will happen eventually; the feline Beast was one of the most common fanboy complaints about Morrison's run (cf. any NXM thread on Xfan), and as such is sure to be eliminated sooner or later. And with such an obvious plot device in place for doing so, it's not at all unreasonable to expect it to happen very much sooner...

Matthew Fluxington

22:14 / 29.08.04

Just an idea - the cure essentially de-evolves people, right? Henry's whole mutation is about devolution. If he gets hit with the 'cure,' would it just exacerbate his condition and devolve him further, from human to ape to cat to _____?

I'm not speculating on the plot here, just the idea.

14:01 / 30.08.04

Interesting idea, Flux...sounds good to me.

Regrettable Juvenilia

18:19 / 30.08.04

There needs to be more condescension in this thread. Also more belittling, putting down, talking down to, patronising, mocking, and directly insulting.

Jesus, cut the sub-Warren-Ellis-forum crap, stop speculating about industry politics and backstage machinations you know nothing about, and just listen to what the story is actually telling you. Basic storytelling. It's really, really easy to understand if you just pay attention.

04:09 / 01.09.04

QUOTE "Just an idea - the cure essentially de-evolves people, right? Henry's whole mutation is about devolution. If he gets hit with the 'cure,' would it just exacerbate his condition and devolve him further, from human to ape to cat to _____?"

Ah, but Henry's catlook is a secondary mutation, like Emma's diamond body. It was one of GM's angles. Maybe the "cure" will only make this second mutation vanish, but not the initial one.

Then again, this whole cure element seems rather sinister, no? I have not read any of the issues twice so perhaps am over looking something obvious here, but has anybody actually been cured and survived any amount of time?

I recall an experiment involving folks with Alzheimer's: stem cells were injected into the failing areas of their brains. The patients underwent radical recovery for the better, an indication that at long last a cure or treatment was at hand, but then the healing process went awry, and everybody received massive brain damage and/or died. The cure left the survivors worse off than their initial condition.

So maybe the 'cure" is a "cruel to be kind" thing: it cures but it kills too...

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:19 / 01.09.04

It doesn't need to. It's meant to disempower mutants. So that they can never threaten the Breakworld. And possibly, so that the Breakworld can threaten us.

The whole point of mutancy in the X-Men's world has often been that while a mutation might seem shit and useless and a form of disability to the person who has it and/or others, it almost always turns out to be a superpower in disguise. More and more mutants are being born every day. Earth is slowly turning into a planet full of superbeings. That's going to scare the neighbours, yes?

(Although I'll be surprised if the Breakworld turns out to be located anywhere as mundane as outer space.)

'Hope' is a good way to eliminate that threat. It doesn't need to kill people as well, because once mutants are depowered, they're not much match for someone like Ord.

The most interesting question at this stage would seem to be: where does Fury fit into all this?

lonely as a cloud...

10:49 / 01.09.04

Damn good point - where does Fury fit in? And how could the Mutants be any threat to the Breakworld if they don't know where it is?
I'm really enjoying this book...

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:12 / 01.09.04

Well, presumably either:

a) There has already been a mutant incursion into the Breakworld, we (and the X-Men) just don't know about it.

or

b) Ord's lot are just really paranoid.

or

c) Ord is from the future (hokey, but possible).

Matthew Fluxington

12:42 / 01.09.04

The Breakworld could simultaneously be another dimension and "the future," since worlds existing parallel to each other wouldn't exactly experience time in the same way. Ord and his people want revenge - the X-Men must have done something to upset them, right?

13:10 / 01.09.04

You know, I'm so glad you brought up Fury. We've spent so much time debating and discussion Ord and Hank and stuff that I almost forgot about what Fury knows about all this, and why Ord's men had modified SHIELD ordinance weapons! I have no answers or speculation, other than that Fury must know about Ord & the Breakworld to some extent. I'm just glad you mentioned it

lonely as a cloud...

13:24 / 01.09.04

Actually, here's a theory of sorts... how 'bout the Ord is chosen to be sent back from the future Breakworld to help develop the cure and prevent the mutants from attacking the Breakworld in the future...
...and that causes the X-Men to get hella pissed off and attack the Breakworld in the first place...?

18:56 / 01.09.04

I haven't been buying books for several years now, partly due to money, partly due to the fact that standards have slipped. I got the Justice League Giffen series, I got the TPB's of NXM, and I got bored of waiting for Planetary coming out, so just drifted away. But Have been kind of following things through this board. Anyway, the talk of Joss's X-Men and the draw of Cassidy's art made me scooter over to the local-ish Putney shop and get issues 1-4 today (they were just about to shut too, but were nice enough to stay open for my purchase). I've only read them once so some subtleties may be lost on me. Basically I'll be getting the remainder of these - they have pretty much everything in them that got me into comics all those wonderful years ago, and some lovely little touches (the Kitty asking Logan if he is going to fight her next, and him saying that she's go all ninja on him - I loved Kitty Pride and Wolverine series of old - is this collected?). Not sure if I'll rush out and start buying everything again, but if I can contain myself, this will do for now. The art is great, the pacing is very good, I don't know a great deal about Joss the comic writer, and due to odd working patterns, have never been able to get into a good run on Buffy, but I'm liking his style so far.

21:21 / 01.09.04

I think we've seen the last of Hank and Emma's secondary mutations, that's how this cure is going to work.

We have Colossus again. What point is Emma's diamond skin? I'm assuming Petey is a mainstay now. There was talk years ago (maybe from that New X-Men Manifesto) that Emma was given diamond skin to replace Colossus in a way. Grant had wanted to originally use him. blah, blah, blah...So I say Scott is about to get a fistful of cure when Emma diamonds up and jumps in. But shock! the needles are stronger than diamond!

I don't have a hackneyed segment for Hank. However, he too may get some cure and go back to human or ape form. What's old is new again.

Great damn story though. The real one I mean.

Regrettable Juvenilia

09:31 / 02.09.04

Seriously, Quimper, would you be interested in wagering any goods or moneys on this no more secondary mutations theory? Because it isn't going to happen.

"Flyboy, how you know that?
You some kind of Marvel suit or something, Joss Whedon's boyfriend or something?"
Well I ain't friends with Joss but I know a lil' bit
Enough that I don't fall for this 'status quo' shit
"Well we'll see how smart you are when the next two issues come"
I got 99 problems but this thread ain't one
Hit me!

12:51 / 02.09.04

>> I got 99 problems but this thread ain't one

Brilliant. Puts it all in perspective somehow, doesn't it?

Matthew Fluxington

13:00 / 02.09.04

Why on earth would Marvel want to change Emma when her secondary mutation isn't that big of a deal, and she's several times more popular post-Morrison? If anything, they will want to keep the current Morrison-style Emma frozen in time like this forever.

Similarly, not that many people really give a fuck about the Beast body thing anymore. As long as Beast looks like a big furry animal, that's the character.

You people are paranoid and weird. Get over it. Flyboy is correct, all the way.

Page: 1(2)3