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Underground > Comic Books >

Astonishing X-Men #4

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Matthew Fluxington

16:21 / 21.08.04

Ah, this is the big issue where the "beloved character" returns. It's probably Jean Grey, but it's probably best to limit pre-release speculation to this thread and reserve this place for discussion of the issue after we've all actually read the thing.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

13:03 / 26.08.04

In answer to Finder's question in other #4 thread, "I think we should move here".

Okay.

Can you believe that panel where Kitty puts her hand over her heart? So subtle, so pretty, so dang heartbreaking.

And has there ever been a better page to page transition than Ord's "Wait, they're not here?" Just the way Cass drew him, all frustrated. Fucking golden.

I'm really blown away at how good this book is.

And as I said next door, I was completely shocked, completely fell for the ruse. I even saw the Variant Cover in the corner of my eye at the store but thought it was Iceman and some regular X-Men cover.

I am so so happy Peter is back. Joss is going to completely knock him out of the park.

13:31 / 26.08.04

Great issue.

The panel that shows the bullet reflecting off something metallic is brilliant. Imagine if you never heard any spoilers about the issue at all - that panel would have had you going "hmmmm?" Cause you can kind of see that it's a shoulder, it's just suggestion enough to get you thinking...

Cass draws a nice Colossus. The nit-picky part of me was wondering why the lines on his chest muscles (pectorals, to be specific) didn't correspond with muscle lines, the way most previous artists drew his metallic muscles.

I love the dumbfounded, startled look on Kitty's face as Peter passes through her.

So I guess next issue we find out what the "Jean?" tissue samples/body experiements are all about. Nice psyche-out, Joss.

Why is Peter begging to know if he's finally dead? Weird...and creepy.

The Stepford Cuckoos are still around! Yay! Maybe we'll get to see them soon.

The comedy moment with the villain showing up "You mean they're not here? Awww, man..." was classic Whedon. And just when I thought the moment would be played only for comedy, it gets nasty.

Cass seems to be getting into a nice rhythm of drawing the new Wolverine's face & mask.

The Natural Way

22:21 / 26.08.04

See, that's something Whedon did w/ Buffy too. It all seems fun, fluffy and "Ord of The Breakworld" and then he puts his fucking knuckle-duster on and suddenly it all seems very horrible.

Classic Whedon, indeed.

What can I say about this ish? Treats!

and...

ROCK!

00:07 / 27.08.04

Lame Question:

Were Kitty and Colossus romantically involved in the past or was it a Little Sister thing?

00:27 / 27.08.04

on "Ord" and the cure: Could it be simply a matter of "Survival of the Fittest?" Mutations allow a species to evolve, and therefore, possibly, be more fit to survive when in competition with other species (for food or territory, etc) So, ultimately, the "Mutants" may give humans the advantage when competing with non-humans (aliens, or beings from another dimension.) Ord has the means to de-power the mutants so his fellow "Breakworlders" can beat us humans (in competition, or battle, or whatever.)

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

07:27 / 27.08.04

Madly in love they were. Then he went crazy in a series of crap storylines, then she hooked up with Pete Wisdom. Eventually Colossus came back and was involved in even worse plots until he bit it. Meanwhile Kitty ditched Wisdom and went off to be a bit crap for a long time.

Cue Astonishing X-Men.

Haus of Mystery

08:26 / 27.08.04

Really, really, really fucking happy to see Colossus back. Joss managed to make the hackneyed idea of ressurrecting a dead character into something ace. Whole issue rocked. All in all a pretty special week in comicland.

09:39 / 27.08.04

It really is, isn't it.

Ord and the kids = Classic Whedon: humour followed by horror. Nasty, nasty the way Ord appeared behind Wing.

What a great week for comics, indeed: WE3, AXM and the Promethea finale). Sooooo goood!

Matthew Fluxington

12:47 / 27.08.04

Another excellent issue! That final sequence with Peter and Kitty is obviously super-classic, but I think that the scene with Ord and the kids was just as great. Poor Wing.

Haus of Mystery

13:01 / 27.08.04

And it's coming out on time!

13:11 / 27.08.04

No small thing!

13:14 / 27.08.04

Does anyone else find it difficult to talk about things they really enjoy. I never have much to say other than "wasn't it skill when..." and "then there was that cool bit...".

I suppose I get talkative when defending cool stuff.

15:51 / 27.08.04

Hypothetical pre-series negotiation between Joss Whedon and Joe Quesada:

JW: I want to bring back Collosus.

JQ: B-b-but, "dead is dead."

JW: Dealbreaker, dude.

JQ: Tell you what, you get Beast back to normal somehow and Collosus is all yours.

JW: Done.

--

Only question now is, how many times does Beast get punched with Ord's syringe-knuckles? Assuming one regression per dose, are we going to be looking at classic blue Hank, or Stan Lee-era Hank? My vote's on the former...

(Now that I think about it, this storyline could end up eliminating Emma's diamond form too, though for various reasons that I don't actually see that happening; still, in the hands of hacks newly discovered caches of "serum" could end up being used as a plot device to erase any character modification or "secondary mutation" a given writer doesn't like.)

That said, this book continues to be pretty decent read. I really, really wish I hadn't been spoiled on the Collosus return by a rumor columnist who couldn't be bothered with spoiler spaces. I'd avoided opening the (phony, good one Marvel) spoiler thread here, but got nailed elsewhere anyway...

17:01 / 27.08.04

Simplist, I love your theoretical conversation between JW and JQ.

17:14 / 27.08.04

one thing that always bugged my about the death of colossus was that he "died" when he assumed his organic steel form. How could that be cremated?

secondly (on a geekier note) it's often been written that when Peter assumed his organic steel form he actuallly switched bodies with a steel version that remained in a sort of extra dimensional space. His flesh & bones body would go "there" and his steel one would appear here in his place. SOOOO with-in the logic of his death he injected himself with a legacy vacine that would spread throughout the world once he used his mutant power... however the vaccine would kill it's initial host. The thing is that once he used his powers the body that was injected would be replaced with the steel body that would then die...

It always seemed to me that since it was the steel body that er... died. it would not be hard to find a means by which that body could be retreaved from that dimension... via teleportation, or the cloning of a new "host."

but whatever... I'm glad the charactor's back and I'm pretty sure a suitable return story will be established. I bet the whole cremation thing wasa sort of psychic illusion to ease various X-men's tramua.

17:27 / 27.08.04

That sounds a little too Miracelman/Capt. Marvel (from both Marvel and DC) for me -- the whole 'switching bodies while my other body chills out in another dimension' thing, for Colossus. His skin can turn to steel and then back, just like the Human Torch can be on fire and then turn back to normal. These are comic books!

Anyway, we'll see how Joss explains his return - I'm sure he'll do it well.

And if Beast undergoes a major physical change on Joss' watch, I vote it'll be back to human but weirdly proportioned Stan Lee-Jack Kirby-era Hank.

Matthew Fluxington

18:01 / 27.08.04

I'm kinda amazed that some of you are still thinking that Henry is going to be de-furred. Seriously, are you even reading the comics?

Matthew Fluxington

18:03 / 27.08.04

I bet the whole cremation thing wasa sort of psychic illusion to ease various X-men's tramua.

Probably more like "detail that gets swept under the rug in the hopes that no one notices/cares."

18:59 / 27.08.04

I love how Flux tries to bait people by being condescending and confrontational.

Joss is showing that he's changing things around a bit. Colossus is back. The story arc has showed the Beast is tempted to want to be human again. The story is about a 'cure' for mutants. The cover of number four shows the Beast with a shattered picture of his former self.

It's not entirely out the realm of possibility that the Beast might be going through some changes before Joss leaves. Of course, it also might happen that nothing changes with the Beast. But it's not like the story isn't hinting heavily in that direction. One gets the feeling with Joss that more major changes might be on the horizon.

What was the variant cover for #4, by the way? From what people have said, I know it's got Colossus on it, but what exactly does it look like?

Matthew Fluxington

19:02 / 27.08.04

The cover of number four shows the Beast with a shattered picture of his former self.

Yeah, a shattered image held mournfully, suggesting a past which he cannot return to. It's an image of lamentation. That whole exchange with Wolverine is about how they are stuck with their lives, they can't go back, and even if they could, it wouldn't be for the best. Pretty simple.

Matthew Fluxington

19:04 / 27.08.04

The basic message of the Beast/cure subplot as expressed by Chuck Noblet in a classic episode of Strangers With Candy:

"You can't unfry things; you can't change who you are."

19:08 / 27.08.04

Sure, Flux, but you ask "Have you even been READING the comic?" like people here are discussing 'it seems like Joss is gonna have Kitty become a roadie for a rock band and give up being a superhero!', as opposed to something that's a major theme with a major character with major hints going a certain way. i.e. something very much IN the comic.

That was the condescending part.

19:32 / 27.08.04

Eh. #4 was alright, I suppose. Not as good as the last two. Maybe a bit better than the first ish. The thing is, well, the spoiler was everywhere, so much so that even Marvel's frigging homepage bloody declared it on Wednesday. Maybe I'm just pissed about that. Or maybe it's that the book read almost like Whedon parody... Sure, some good moments and some pretty artwork, but it seems to just be kinda coasting, as opposed to really amping up, even with all the "revelations."

Perhaps Breakworld is where the dead go to... fight! And Ord brought Petie back with him. Hell if I know. I'm just a bit tired of resurrections... but then, it's Whedon. By the time he's gone, maybe we'll even have Maggot back.

Really, though, decent, but not fulfilling.

19:42 / 27.08.04

Sez you!

Whedon parody? Explain.

19:49 / 27.08.04

That sounds a little too Miracelman/Capt. Marvel (from both Marvel and DC) for me -- the whole 'switching bodies while my other body chills out in another dimension' thing, for Colossus. His skin can turn to steel and then back, just like the Human Torch can be on fire and then turn back to normal. These are comic books!

Yeah... but it's one of those details that stuck out in my head while reading those Clairmont X-man as a kid. It's been mentioned that he gains mass from a potantially extra-doimensional source... and could also relate to why his siblings also have dimensional powers... but this is all really geekery.

It could simply be that his death was only temporary and he woke up after a while... there's no real telling the limit to his invulnurability. at this point I'm looking forward to the following issues all the more so for the explaination.

19:51 / 27.08.04

I get the sence that the BREAKWORLD views the rise of Earth born mutants as a potential threat. Like the planet developing weapons of mass distructions. They's sent ORD to set up a premptive strike that would eliminate that potential threat.

19:59 / 27.08.04

So Whedon's taking a nuanced stab at politics?

20:17 / 27.08.04

Maybe...

I just remember Ord's coments on how 'man was not ment to fly" and something to the effect that mutants would no longer become a threat to BREAKWORLD.

20:19 / 27.08.04

Good theory, Mr. Tricks...

When I read "Man was not meant to fly," I instantly thought of the evil Mickey Eye people telling Doc Hero that man is not supposed to fly and that his "hat" is silly.

20:30 / 27.08.04

Frankly, I think it was pretty much spelt out.
Ord's here to prevent mutants from becoming a threat to the Breakworld.

Now then, Flux, I've never felt you didn't have a point, my idle speculation back in the spoilers thread was just that, but I think you do have to take into account that Whedon is likely to pay off with the cure in a way that is up close and personal.
Whedon's writing is of the Hollywood school where, if an asteroid is heading for earth, you will get the pay off (and everyone will live anyway). Christ, Joss has engineered it so Ord can use the cure in combat, he's even shown us just how fast it works. Do you really think an X-Man isn't going to get clocked?

Whether it's Henry remains to be seen, however.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

20:33 / 27.08.04

Hey!

Once you quote Strangers With Candy, the argument is OVER.

No, seriously. That was so good.

20:47 / 27.08.04

I agree that the Beast would be denying who he is by 'curing' his mutation. As Wolvie says, if an X-Man chooses to stop being a mutant, he's pretty much sold his soul and betrayed all that matters.

But I could see happening later on in the story is Hank, in a moment of weakness, starting to take the cure but not taking it all the way somehow, then something goes horribly wrong, and he gets reverted to X-Men #1 by Stan & Jack look for about a year or so in real time. Then he deals with guilt over choosing to de-mutify himself, the team being pissed at him for a while because of it, etc. etc. .....

20:50 / 27.08.04

Whedon parody? Explain.

The blatant cinematics. The "moments." The flesh-piercing sharp dialogue. I dunno. It seems to borrow all the best Buffy cliches. And it's a bit fanwank, too. There was a point where even Bendis's dialogue read like he was just copying Bendis... a parody of himself. I pray Jossy isn't getting to that level already.

Nice to see people are actually reading my comments, though. I feel so loved.

20:52 / 27.08.04

Like for an example... when Colossus drops to his knees and hugs Kitty. I swear to God it's taken straight from an early season three episode of Buffy, subsituting in the X-Men instead of Angel and the Buffster. Maybe it's just me. And that is, as I said, only one part of a few things which started to drive me a bit batty. I hope it'll get better with the next ish.

And where the hell are the ugly mutants? Grr.

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